View Full Version : the only album where things didnt go wrong


Catherine Wheel
03-01-2008, 12:07 AM
It seems like Mellon Collie is the only record where you get to see the four of them succesfully make an album together. Its like the only album where the band is fully functioning. That's kind of sad.

Adore is three out of the four. Darcy quit before Machina was finished. Gish and Siamese Dream have Corgan playing James and Darcy's parts.

Everyone in the band plays an important part on Mellon Collie. Its not just Billy overshadowing everyone or Billy and Jimmy overshadowing everyone. Darcy contributes some nice, distinctive lead and background vocals. James pulls off some interesting guitar solos and creative lead guitar parts.

redbull
03-01-2008, 12:13 AM
<a href="http://www.dailyblood.com/images/bizarre&extreme/objectfreaks.jpg">totally.</a>

greedo
03-01-2008, 02:31 AM
But Siamese Dream, Adore, Machina (I & II) and Zeitgeist are all great albums, so it hardly matters.

Gish is a piece of shit. Maybe one day Corgan will tell the truth that he didn't do anything on Gish - James and Darcy recorded the whole album without him or Jimmy. That would make sense. Or maybe between Gish and Siamese Dream Billy sold his soul to the devil in exchange for some songwriting talent.

Though Mellon Collie is my favourite, and maybe it is the band working more as a band that makes it perfect.

kingy
03-01-2008, 03:04 AM
^^^^^
I hope thats a joke post

Catherine Wheel
03-01-2008, 03:05 AM
Yeah I think Mellon Collie being so brilliant has a lot to do with the people who were involved in the recording process. I'm starting to believe that it does matter who is active in the band. I think just having Darcy in the studio playing is enough to inspire Corgan.

Slurpee
03-01-2008, 03:50 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Exit

Slurpee
03-01-2008, 03:51 AM
[is how you make me feel]

dzhezus
03-01-2008, 05:09 AM
It's really sad listening to the MCIS demos and the pastichio medley thinking that they could have gone on recording for another year on that material at the peak of their powers. oh well.

greedo
03-01-2008, 05:10 AM
Yeah I think Mellon Collie being so brilliant has a lot to do with the people who were involved in the recording process. I'm starting to believe that it does matter who is active in the band. I think just having Darcy in the studio playing is enough to inspire Corgan.

I don't know about that. I think Mellon Collie was just done at the right time - Billy was in his late twenties and the band had success. They basically touched on every style of music the band would ever try on that album as well, leaving not much rock territory left to explore.

By the time the band made Machina, a lot had changed. Billy's life would surely have been a lot different by then - divorce, death of his mother, achieving the highs and lows of success, getting older, etc.

MCIS is mostly about things that go through your head in your twenties - a lot of uncertainty, anger, confusion, change. These themes are perfect for rock music. Machina (and everything after) is more 'mature'. It seems Billy has come to terms with most of his demons. He's now apparently turned his sights outward to politics and spirituality. I think fewer people find these themes as interesting in music. They are harder to relate to and less universal. For example, Billy probably lost a lot of fans based on his political views.

But musically and lyrically, everything Billy does still interests me more than those first two albums. It would be nice to hear Darcy's backing vocals on Zeitgeist, but I'd rather have the music than not have it at all.

But I also wonder how many songs Billy and Jimmy threw away because they sounded like earlier Pumpkins...I bet there are a few...he seems to have thrown away all the best Zwan songs (Chrysanthemum, etc.) for the same reason. Great, now I've reminded myself how great a Zwan album would be with those November 01 songs...I'm going to cry.

smashingjj
03-01-2008, 05:47 AM
But Siamese Dream, Adore, Machina (I & II) and Zeitgeist are all great albums, so it hardly matters.

Gish is a piece of shit. Maybe one day Corgan will tell the truth that he didn't do anything on Gish - James and Darcy recorded the whole album without him or Jimmy. That would make sense. Or maybe between Gish and Siamese Dream Billy sold his soul to the devil in exchange for some songwriting talent.

Though Mellon Collie is my favourite, and maybe it is the band working more as a band that makes it perfect.

ew

jasminetea
03-01-2008, 06:52 AM
But Siamese Dream, Adore, Machina (I & II) and Zeitgeist are all great albums, so it hardly matters.

Gish is a piece of shit. Maybe one day Corgan will tell the truth that he didn't do anything on Gish - James and Darcy recorded the whole album without him or Jimmy. That would make sense. Or maybe between Gish and Siamese Dream Billy sold his soul to the devil in exchange for some songwriting talent.

Though Mellon Collie is my favourite, and maybe it is the band working more as a band that makes it perfect.

i agree with the point that there is a huge jump from Gish to Siamese Dream.
songwriting wise, SD to Mellon Collie is quite an evolution, but Gish to SD, "revolution" is not enough to describe it.

mistle
03-01-2008, 07:04 AM
ew

for real

stripes
03-01-2008, 10:22 AM
edit: gay

Catherine Wheel
03-01-2008, 11:20 AM
MCIS is mostly about things that go through your head in your twenties

I thought Mellon Collie spoke to teenagers more than it does people in their twenties. It seems to cover the same territory as Siamese Dream as far as it's theme. Maybe Im missing something.

skipgo
03-01-2008, 02:08 PM
do you guys REALLY think he recorded ALL of james and darcy's parts? I doubt they didn't play ANYTHING on those records. I believe there's some exaggeration going on there, and people just buy into it.

exactlythesame
03-01-2008, 02:11 PM
catherine wheel still makes some good points -- during mellon collie, the band was definitely more solidified, and it shows through the material.

skipgo
03-01-2008, 04:27 PM
yeah, i don't disagree with that, absolutely. I just think some people might take the whole "billy played all of james and darcy's parts" stuff too literally.

Gossamer
03-01-2008, 05:17 PM
fuck the gish haters.

gish is an amazing record especially for a debut, to me it is the most underrated, under appreciated, and overlooked rock album of the 90's.
the guitars are so crunchy and psychedelic and billy's voice is actually really really good throughout.

it puts zeitgeist to shame that's for damn sure.

sweetanthony
03-01-2008, 09:04 PM
fuck the gish haters.

gish is an amazing record especially for a debut, to me it is the most underrated, under appreciated, and overlooked rock album of the 90's.
the guitars are so crunchy and psychedelic and billy's voice is actually really really good throughout.

it puts zeitgeist to shame that's for damn sure.

Though I've come to really like Zeitgeist, I've never agreed more about any statement about any of SP's records.

Next week will be Gish week in my car.

mojo
03-01-2008, 09:10 PM
<a href="http://www.dailyblood.com/images/bizarre&extreme/objectfreaks.jpg">totally.</a>

I opened this in front of my kid you evil man.

exactlythesame
03-01-2008, 10:09 PM
yeah, i don't disagree with that, absolutely. I just think some people might take the whole "billy played all of james and darcy's parts" stuff too literally.

you know how kids are -- they hear adults say something and subsequently regurgitate it whenever the subject next comes up

IWishIWasBlank
03-02-2008, 12:01 AM
Never open any link anywhere on Netphoria. Sorry someone had to tell you, mojo. Thought you would've known after one or two lemonparties.

Gish is what me started on Pumpkins, while in the mainstream they were moving from SD to MCIS. If my mom hadn't grabbed a beat up Caroline vers. of Gish at a garage sale, I don't know what I'd be listening to at this point. A lot of Chopin perhaps.

Edit: MCIS definitely had complete band unity in its sound and balanced post-production elements that came from it.