View Full Version : I wish Machina wasnt so insincere


Catherine Wheel
01-31-2008, 09:11 PM
I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

themadcaplaughs
01-31-2008, 09:40 PM
I know what you're getting it, but to me the insincerity is part of what makes it great. It literally sounds like a band breaking up on record.

Azael
01-31-2008, 09:58 PM
Even ignoring the concept and bad production, the era is full of great songs.
The album is very poorly constructed IMO.

Reyngel
01-31-2008, 10:11 PM
It literally sounds like a band breaking up on record.




Wow. That's actually a really good point. I'd never thought of it like that before.

I still don't like Machina even half as much as the preceeding albums, but it's now more interesting to me thinking of it that way.

Catherine Wheel
01-31-2008, 10:19 PM
yeah its not the type of insincerity where its just a band that wants to sell out and make pop songs or cash in on past success. it was a risky album to make because it did none of those things.

still it just feels like a giant mask. the band has always been strange but this time it felt like there was no point to it.

mellon_c0llie
01-31-2008, 10:23 PM
finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

I think that this "insincerity" has last longer than just Machina.

dudehitscar
01-31-2008, 11:00 PM
Machina is an incredible record.

xezton
02-01-2008, 12:05 AM
Machina is an incredible record.

finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

T&T
02-01-2008, 12:21 AM
where do you want them to go after the top?
and after people crap on you for trying grace?

great songs are still great songs,
you're the one hung up on him "hiding behind" like he used to be your best friend...
:cry:

IWishIWasBlank
02-01-2008, 10:15 AM
I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

I wish Catherine Wheel would just make a proper non-trolled thread instead of hiding behind completely open-ended questions waiting for people to flame each other instead of him/her/it in an outlandish way. It ruins any respect I had for him and destroys the legacy of Netphoria.

Your post count indicates you've gotten away with this nearly 1,000 times. Netphorians please refer to the "What is the average Netphorian IQ" thread. You apparently have yet to catch on.

Phoenix Down
02-01-2008, 10:35 AM
Machina is an awesome record, get over it

osamy
02-01-2008, 11:00 AM
It is not insincerity. It is irony. Thomas Mann's "Doktor Faustus" wears a similar mask with a fictional and undependable narrator. But it is every bit as sincere as anything else Mann wrote.

mayday
02-01-2008, 11:05 AM
Machina is beautiful. I love the story in it. I could picture the Pumpkins without it. =)

Catherine Wheel
02-01-2008, 12:53 PM
I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

bigleaguechew
02-01-2008, 01:43 PM
I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

what sort of fucking drivel is this? take a bath and drop a toaster in.

SimpleUsername
02-01-2008, 07:23 PM
I've never bothered with the story/concepts etc. of Machina. I just see it as a great album. I prefer Machina II though.

Gish08
02-01-2008, 07:26 PM
I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.
get a life

DoomsdayRocket
02-01-2008, 11:00 PM
wow apparently the old bolly raped more childhoods than george lucas...

Reyngel
02-02-2008, 01:03 AM
I think hes just too self aware for his own good and he let it get the best of him. What could have been an album with some interesting spiritual themes is ruined by commentary on what it means to be a rock star.

Good point.

aldango
02-02-2008, 04:32 AM
I think that the songs stood for themselves. I really wish that the band hadn't done the whole "we're pretending to be a different band" thing. It's embarrassing! The album is incredible though, absolutely love it. And the production ;)

greedo
02-02-2008, 06:27 AM
wow apparently the old bolly raped more childhoods than george lucas...


Haha!

I love the Machina albums (and Zwan and Zeitgeist) and I love the Star Wars prequels...though Ep2 is clearly the weakest Star Wars movie by a long shot.

I LOL at the 'raped my childhood' types.

j u n e
02-02-2008, 07:06 AM
I think that this "insincerity" has last longer than just Machina.

finally some body is seeing eye to eye with me.

unlachs
02-02-2008, 07:21 AM
i wish machina wasn't so boring

Luke de Spa
02-02-2008, 07:33 AM
it is __________

finally someone is ___________ with me

IWishIWasBlank
02-02-2008, 08:57 AM
Luke De Spa = Winner.

I congratulate you, sir.

Bjarne
02-02-2008, 10:26 AM
I think what makes this record so great is that it is just on the verge of being insincere. I don't think it was insincere, it just had alot cynicism in it. I don't know, but up till machina 1 and 2 I could actually feel what Corgan meant (eventhough it did become less) , but now with zeitgeist he has lost me.

slunken
02-02-2008, 11:55 AM
Hold all my calls

exactlythesame
02-02-2008, 11:51 PM
A couple of his most sincere songs to date are probably Stand Inside Your Love and This Time.

They showcase his pitiable optimism.

T&T
02-02-2008, 11:53 PM
i'll be by the pool

slunken
02-03-2008, 03:27 PM
i'll be by the pool

You know the next line [playin' with my gun(s)] always makes me think of the confessions where Billy said he would lay in the pool high on X...I can just imagine millionaire Billy high as a kite and playing with himself on one of those inflatable recliners w/ a cup holder. Now THAT'S insincerity.

Shinobi
02-04-2008, 04:06 AM
All the Pumpkins albums have a distinct feel and mood to em, and depending on my mood i feel like listening to diff albums...its like a buffet, and ive taken many servings of machina 1 & 2, and i will take many more, when the mood suits. I love the distorted and heavy production of the songs, and i like all the songs, just some less than others. Ive read alot of people dumping on machina as time goes on, i guess its just diff strokes for diff folks...

im glad that i enjoy machina and dont dump on it, makes my buffet selection broader :D and the more pumpkins you sincerely enjoy and appreciate the better, so i count myself fortuate in that respect

mojo
02-04-2008, 06:35 PM
I wish Corgan could have just made a proper album instead of hiding behind outlandish concepts. It ruins any respect I had for him and it destroys the legacy of the band.

totally agree - and adore was such a direct, mature (in the best sense of the word) expression of grief and loss that it sucked how much Everlasting Gaze, our first glimpse of the magnunm opus, stunk of a band trying to apologetically re-assert their rock credentials. They had nothing to be sorry for except making one of the most brave and original records of the 90s! who else was referencing gary numan and new order in 1998?? That said, the best songs on machina - i.e. try try try, age of innocence - sound as sincere, urgent and unforced as the soupy, proggy epics don't.

slunken
02-04-2008, 06:40 PM
who else was referencing gary numan and new order in 1998?? :erm:

mojo
02-04-2008, 06:58 PM
:erm:


okay, more accurately gary numan's former band tubeway army with whom he recorded replicas and - even more specifically - its two hits are friends electric? and down in the park (later covered appallingly by m manson). corgan mentioned numan's influence around the time of adore's release and was photographed backstage at one of his gigs.

slunken
02-04-2008, 07:27 PM
All the Pumpkins albums have a distinct feel and mood to em,

my main beef with w/ the zeitgeist tour

Shinobi
02-05-2008, 04:48 AM
my main beef with w/ the zeitgeist tour

That the distinct feel didnt come out when they played the songs?

smashingjj
02-05-2008, 06:57 AM
i'm really enjoying machine right now. some of its songs, to be more precise