View Full Version : Billy and Jimmy don't listen to modern music.


Greatvegetable
01-25-2008, 01:35 PM
Jimmy said that he doesn't listen to any modern music in this article: http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129754 as well as referencing cream and bunch of 18th century jazz drummers. Billy's hanging out with these crazy hippies, is always referencing 60's and 70's music and is always advertising his lack of belief in contemorary music.

Does anyone think this may be the reason why they seem to be so out of touch? I mean Jimmy says in that article that he thought AG was interesting and different! A lot of Bands these days are strong melodically, compositionally and in production. I think that the Pumpkins are stuck in a bit of a time-warp and need to wake up a little and accept that there is some fucking good modern music out there and embrace some of the facets that SP2 are missing. In fact, a lot of today's bands offer so much more musically than those of the 60's - 90's, albeit in a different way. I can't help but feel that acts like Postal Service, Death Cab, Bloc Party and even SSPU have a much more sophisticated grasp of harmony, song structure and technology than the Pumpkins are displaying at the moment.

If the Pumpkins were to add that to their sound -which is still amazing - I think they would produce richer, more intersting music and maybe the world would accept them again.


Oh yeah, that and get back on the acid.

Mo
01-25-2008, 01:40 PM
18th century jazz drummers? I find that hard to believe.

Corgan Rules
01-25-2008, 01:43 PM
You bring up an interesting point here. They don't care about the new music and they don't set their bars against it. They want to be like the artists they look up to.

mrlvx
01-25-2008, 01:49 PM
Billy and Jimmy don't listen to modern music because they ARE the modern music.

Greatvegetable
01-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Oh yeah, all this RTB worshipping as well. I mean for fuck's sake, he produced THE DARKNESS album! Probably the worst, most anachronistic band of the past 10 years.

Floppy Nono
01-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Oh yeah, all this RTB worshipping as well. I mean for fuck's sake, he produced THE DARKNESS album! Probably the worst, most anachronistic band of the past 10 years.

that got, according to wikipedia, "5 platinum certifications in the UK alone" (1.5 million albums sold) on their first album (not the one he produced). what's your point again?

wHATcOLOR
01-25-2008, 02:40 PM
anyone else think it's weird how bill/jim seem to say/think that the radio is the only source of modern music? it always seems really weird when people say there's no good music today, and then they complain about emo bands and bands on the radio

Floppy Nono
01-25-2008, 02:44 PM
I think it's probably the same thing 80's hair metal probably said about 90's grunge related acts. Now it's time for 90's grunge related acts to complain about '00's emo bands. I think it's more like hosting a new years eve party that everyone goes to for 10 years and then on the 11th year you find out everyone's going up the street.



My scene is dead, i'm pissed yours is flourishing.


As for the radio being the only source of music, to an old band trying to be big again it probably is. Billy wants the pumpkins to be the biggest band in the world all over again and the radio seems like the logical place to him. I don't think it's weird, it's just he doesn't have a proper grasp of technology. Like when your father asks you to look something up on "the internets" or how to google something.

apetulantfrenzy
01-25-2008, 02:46 PM
If you're looking for forward-thinking music that embraces technology, you'd be better off citing MIA, the Magnetic Fields, Justice, and Grizzly Bear. Now THOSE are good, modern records that came out this year. That said, just because you're influenced by older art doesn't mean you're out of touch.

MistaMista1
01-25-2008, 02:59 PM
Now it's time for 90's grunge related acts to complain about '00's emo bands.

I feel like emo is dead already. (Not that it wasn't "dead" to begin with). I associate it with 2002-2005ish.

T&T
01-25-2008, 03:08 PM
SP would be much lamer if they "followed trends"

better that they keep doing what they please
even if they are "out of touch with modern music"

Phoenix Down
01-25-2008, 03:15 PM
what saddens me the most is what billy said on the zeitgeist documentary. that when jimmy and him started out working on new songs they found themselves sounding like 93 and 98 pumpkins and then went into a different direction.

T&T
01-25-2008, 03:17 PM
what saddens me the most is what billy said on the zeitgeist documentary. that when jimmy and him started out working on new songs they found themselves sounding like 93 and 98 pumpkins and then went into a different direction.

i suggest you pop in mcis to help you deal with your saddness

Rickpat12
01-25-2008, 03:20 PM
what saddens me the most is what billy said on the zeitgeist documentary. that when jimmy and him started out working on new songs they found themselves sounding like 93 and 98 pumpkins and then went into a different direction.

Eh yeah, I see your point but why do something that's already been done. Each album has its own sound. I like that they don't repeat themselves.

Mayfuck
01-25-2008, 03:23 PM
yes they are old.

Phoenix Down
01-25-2008, 03:23 PM
sure, i always loved the fact that SP didn't repeat themselves, but after Zeitgeist i wish they had. Just saying, don't worry....I'll get over it.

Mayfuck
01-25-2008, 03:26 PM
i dont expect much from rock musicians who turn 40. billy wrote some of the best albums of the 90s. the only regrettable thing is that he didn't decide to age gracefully. at his age he should be writing more elegant and mature music but the new stuff is laughably regressive and juvenile. thsi wouldn't be so offensive if it weren't for the fact he titled the latest album 'zeitgeist.'

T&T
01-25-2008, 03:28 PM
one day they'll surprise us all and copy themselves...

slappyspank33
01-25-2008, 03:36 PM
anyone else think it's weird how bill/jim seem to say/think that the radio is the only source of modern music? it always seems really weird when people say there's no good music today, and then they complain about emo bands and bands on the radio

Agreed. I find great music doesn't come to you anymore, you have to search it out. Billy and Jimmy are probably not searching. They probably don't have time to. They probably go to rollingstone.com, see that there is a new Avril and Akon release and think "shit, musics gone to shit". I have many friends who bitch about music these days but all they are being feed is top 40 radio bull shit. Personally, I enjoy seeking out new relatively unknown bands because when I find something great is feels much more special to me because it wasnt force feed to me buy some shitty big record label or magazine.

slappyspank33
01-25-2008, 03:48 PM
what saddens me the most is what billy said on the zeitgeist documentary. that when jimmy and him started out working on new songs they found themselves sounding like 93 and 98 pumpkins and then went into a different direction.

What bothered me was when billy explained how much work they put into finding the 'right' guitar, the 'right' amp and the 'right' fx box to each individual guitar part...news flash: the guitar sound isnt that great to justify the amount of time they probably spent getting the 'right' tone for various parts of the album.

i dont expect much from rock musicians who turn 40. billy wrote some of the best albums of the 90s. the only regrettable thing is that he didn't decide to age gracefully. at his age he should be writing more elegant and mature music but the new stuff is laughably regressive and juvenile. thsi wouldn't be so offensive if it weren't for the fact he titled the latest album 'zeitgeist.'

I agree. The album does not sound like it was written by a mature song writer. It is VERY juvenile.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 03:56 PM
the only regrettable thing is that he didn't decide to age gracefully. at his age he should be writing more elegant and mature music but the new stuff is laughably regressive and juvenile.

you're so right about this. i wish he realized that his fans would appreciate and likely embrace the work so much more readily if he did write more elegant and mature music. I sometimes wonder if "we" really matter to him as much as the unconquered masses do. The one's who don't give a shit about him are the ones he wants so badly to please.

BlissedandGone2
01-25-2008, 03:56 PM
jimmy chamberlin has said repeatedly he likes the mars volta. thats pretty modern isnt it?

Mariner
01-25-2008, 04:18 PM
there's an album recently released by a modern band that contains some songs the muses were probably reserving for sp's 'reunion' had it gone right. one of their singers even kind of sounds like james at times.

tcm
01-25-2008, 04:19 PM
anyone else think it's weird how bill/jim seem to say/think that the radio is the only source of modern music? it always seems really weird when people say there's no good music today, and then they complain about emo bands and bands on the radio

but why shouldn't good music be on the radio? i think their complaining about the state of modern music and their vying for commercial attention largely stems from the belief that the mainstream doesn't have to suck. they're looking at the Beatles, Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Who, Pink Floyd, etc. and saying, "these were the greatest artists of their time, and they were the most popular artists of their time, so why can't that happen again?"

it's fine if you don't care about all that and accept that there's plenty of good music out there for people who are willing to look. it's a pretty awesome time for record collector types to be alive. but if you have any belief in the ability of good music to enrich the masses, including those less devout listeners, then what's on the radio is an understandable concern.

T&T
01-25-2008, 04:20 PM
remember his "mature music" "modern" attempt with TFE?
if you can't please everybody, please yourself.

Gossamer
01-25-2008, 04:21 PM
mars volta ftw

wHATcOLOR
01-25-2008, 04:23 PM
but why shouldn't good music be on the radio? i think their complaining about the state of modern music and their vying for commercial attention largely stems from the belief that the mainstream doesn't have to suck. they're looking at the Beatles, Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Who, Pink Floyd, etc. and saying, "these were the greatest artists of their time, and they were the most popular artists of their time, so why can't that happen again?"

it's fine if you don't care about all that and accept that there's plenty of good music out there for people who are willing to look. it's a pretty awesome time for record collector types to be alive. but if you have any belief in the ability of good music to enrich the masses, including those less devout listeners, then what's on the radio is an understandable concern.



yeah, i don't really give a shit about the radio, and i could not care less about what kind of music millions of people i don't know are listening to. it's not like peoples' ability to listen to whatever music they consider to be great has been demolished

tcm
01-25-2008, 04:25 PM
sodom & gomorrah.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 04:38 PM
there's an album recently released by a modern band that contains some songs the muses were probably reserving for sp's 'reunion' had it gone right. one of their singers even kind of sounds like james at times.

who's that?

Mariner
01-25-2008, 04:40 PM
but why shouldn't good music be on the radio? i think their complaining about the state of modern music and their vying for commercial attention largely stems from the belief that the mainstream doesn't have to suck. they're looking at the Beatles, Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Who, Pink Floyd, etc. and saying, "these were the greatest artists of their time, and they were the most popular artists of their time, so why can't that happen again?"

it's fine if you don't care about all that and accept that there's plenty of good music out there for people who are willing to look. it's a pretty awesome time for record collector types to be alive. but if you have any belief in the ability of good music to enrich the masses, including those less devout listeners, then what's on the radio is an understandable concern.


who are 'the masses', today though? media and art and all that are way more fractured and open than they were in the 60s and 70s. it's easier to get access to music today, so there are more bands reaching a moderate crowd and far less acts reaching massive crowds. it's ridiculously rewarding for people who care enough about music to seek out artists they can connect with deeply, and it leaves those who don't care with brain-numbing ear candy that whispers sweet nothings about materialistic consumerism and sex and blind patriotism. their loss. is it any better to force what you would consider high quality music upon them?

andrewface
01-25-2008, 04:41 PM
i dont listen to modern music either

skipgo
01-25-2008, 04:48 PM
i can't believe how much i'm agreeing with you today Mariner. I agree that it's their loss, and frankly, when good music becomes popular, the media and recording industry do their best to capitalize on it by coming up with second and third-rate clones to push on everyone. I'm all for great bands becoming successful and able to make a living creating music, but it's unfortunate that the leeches find a way to turn that into something unsavory.

it's easy to find good music if you know how to look for it, and if music means a lot to you, you'll find out how and where to look. screw the masses. I believe they're part of the reason billy can't focus on making his best music possible, because he's trying too hard to please them. Priorities, outta whack.

mayday
01-25-2008, 04:49 PM
i agree with them. there isnt a lot out there today that is really remarkable imo. there are some songs that i like but nothing really striking. so the market is ripe for some great music to come in.

they can draw on their interests to make stimulating music that can be accepted without having to join in on the latest trend of whats out there. in fact, the more influences they can draw on the better.

I think they are both incredible artists. with a few kinks to work out. ;)

tcm
01-25-2008, 04:50 PM
it's ridiculously rewarding for people who care enough about music to seek out artists they can connect with deeply, and it leaves those who don't care with brain-numbing ear candy that whispers sweet nothings about materialistic consumerism and sex and blind patriotism. their loss. is it any better to force what you would consider high quality music upon them?

yes, it is. doesn't mean they can't have their ear candy too, but it is absolutely better for more voices to be heard by more people than fewer by fewer. everybody should have to hear everything, it should be in the constitution.

Mariner
01-25-2008, 04:50 PM
who's that?

http://sharebee.com/88ad9c92

will delete this in a day or two: for promotional use only

tcm
01-25-2008, 04:51 PM
what does "it's their loss" mean, anyway? of course it's their loss. but i don't want people to lose. i want people to win.

Mariner
01-25-2008, 04:52 PM
i agree with them. there isnt a lot out there today that is really remarkable imo. there are some songs that i like but nothing really striking. so the market is ripe for some great music to come in.

they can draw on their interests to make stimulating music that can be accepted without having to join in on the latest trend of whats out there. in fact, the more influences they can draw on the better.

I think they are both incredible artists. with a few kinks to work out. ;)


there's great stuff happening all over the place the last few years. what kind of music do you like?

mayday
01-25-2008, 04:53 PM
i can listen to almost anything and like things in everything but nothing really striking as a whole has perked my interest in the last years

T&T
01-25-2008, 04:54 PM
Priorities, outta whack.
if the priorities are on the live element... i'd say they're doing A+
and definitely ahead of the pack

skipgo
01-25-2008, 04:58 PM
http://sharebee.com/88ad9c92

will delete this in a day or two: for promotional use only

thanks, i'll give this a listen after work today.

i want people to win.
you're a nice fellow, aren't you?

Mariner
01-25-2008, 04:58 PM
what does "it's their loss" mean, anyway? of course it's their loss. but i don't want people to lose. i want people to win.

even if they have clearly chosen not to?

there isn't one show or one channel or one radio station that most people listen to these days. the only way for a band to become as huge as led zeppelin or the beatles or even the pumpkins is to be so great and so relevant that they get exposure on lots of different tv channels and internet services, etc. and frankly there aren't many bands that are even close to deserving that kind of exposure these days. there never have been that many. when the next one comes along (or if they do), everyone will know, don't worry. and in the meantime plenty of decent music is getting more exposure than you think (although maybe not on the radio. radio in most places is pretty fucked). my roommate was watching some silly reality show or network sitcom or something the other day and 'melody day' was playing in the backg</>round. stuff like that seems to be happening more and more often.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 04:59 PM
if the priorities are on the live element... i'd say they're doing A+
and definitely ahead of the pack

i can't disagree that they're an excellent live act. I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them on this tour.

T&T
01-25-2008, 05:01 PM
"indie" music gets played more and more on TV because it's cheap to license them

wHATcOLOR
01-25-2008, 05:02 PM
i can listen to almost anything and like things in everything but nothing really striking as a whole has perked my interest in the last years

you suck at answering questions

dustrock
01-25-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm surprised anyone cares whether or not they listen to modern music.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:02 PM
i can listen to almost anything and like things in everything but nothing really striking as a whole has perked my interest in the last years

have you tried searching around on music blogs? I find a lot of good stuff at gorilla vs. bear. Or elbo.ws
just click some links and listen to some mp3s. There's so much out there mayday.

mayday
01-25-2008, 05:16 PM
have you tried searching around on music blogs? I find a lot of good stuff at gorilla vs. bear. Or elbo.ws
just click some links and listen to some mp3s. There's so much out there mayday.

ill check that out. thanks :)

tcm
01-25-2008, 05:21 PM
even if they have clearly chosen not to?
yes. i love people even when they cannot love themselves. in that way, i am an excellent human being and role model for children.

there isn't one show or one channel or one radio station that most people listen to these days. the only way for a band to become as huge as led zeppelin or the beatles or even the pumpkins is to be so great and so relevant that they get exposure on lots of different tv channels and internet services, etc. and frankly there aren't many bands that are even close to deserving that kind of exposure these days. there never have been that many. when the next one comes along (or if they do), everyone will know, don't worry.

there is still a mainstream. whether it's populated by 3 bands or 30 bands or 300 bands is not the issue, but whether any of those bands are worth anything. and the question is whether a band who is "so great and so relevant" (not to suggest that the Pumpkins would ever be that One Chosen Band) would get that exposure in the current environment. but you are very sure on that point so i WON"T worry. :P:P:P

BlissedandGone2
01-25-2008, 05:22 PM
also, whats wrong with jimmy referencing jazz drummers? his background is in jazz and the best drummers in the world are jazz drummers. period.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:22 PM
i also suggest daytrotter.com
my pal sean runs the site and he's really done some wonderful stuff there, giving exposure to some amazing bands and offering up tons of free (and legal) downloads.

jimmy drevpile
01-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Jimmy said that he doesn't listen to any modern music in this article: http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129754 as well as referencing cream and bunch of 18th century jazz drummers...


yeah but, In 'Drummer' magazine - May 2006 - Jimmy said -

"Anything can get me inspired. I mean, I love the Muse record and I particulaly love the Mars Volta record. I think bands like the Mars Volta are really important as they have taken lessons from the 90's and music up to this century. When i hear bands like the Mars Volta, it really makes me proud to be part of music".

indeed > jimmy chamberlin has said repeatedly he likes the mars volta. thats pretty modern isnt it?

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:23 PM
also, whats wrong with jimmy referencing jazz drummers? his background is in jazz and the best drummers in the world are jazz drummers. period.

qft my friend.

tcm
01-25-2008, 05:25 PM
mars volta fuckin'g rule the world, my freinds.

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:28 PM
today has been an interesting day on the sp board. a welcome change.

Mo
01-25-2008, 05:35 PM
today has been an interesting day on the sp board. a welcome change.

The General Chat Message Board on the other hand is dying.
[Am I even allowed to say that name here?]

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:43 PM
:(

Mariner
01-25-2008, 05:48 PM
i can listen to alm
ost anything and like things in everything but nothing really striking as a whole has perked my interest in the last years

there's gotta be something in here you'll like. some of these suggestions are serious, some less so, and be warned that this is just one narrow selection of music from the past decade that you might like

animal collective - strawberry jam
antibalas - security
avalanches - since i left you
bonnie 'prince' billy + matt sweeney - superwolf
boris - pink
calexico - feast of wire
califone - heron king blues
caribou - milk of human kindness
dinosaur jr. - beyond
eagles of death metal - peace/love/death metal
explosions in the sky - those who tell the truth..., the earth...
godspeed you black emperor - f#/a#..., lift yr skinny fists...
grizzly bear - yellow house
holowpaw - holopaw
iron and wine + calexico - in the reins
lcd soundsystem - lcd soundsystem
low - things we lost in the fire, drums + guns
man man - six demon bag
olivia tremor control - dusk at the cubist castle
queens of the stone age - lullabies, era vulgaris
radiohead - in rainbows
sonic youth - murray street
sufjan stevens - seven swans, illinoise
super furry animals - guerilla
two gallants - the throes

smashapumpkin
01-25-2008, 05:52 PM
jimmy chamberlin has said repeatedly he likes the mars volta. thats pretty modern isnt it?

correct

skipgo
01-25-2008, 05:57 PM
that's a pretty good list. i used to live with one of the guys in olivia tremor control, those guys are awesome. There are a few there that I haven't heard, I'll have to check them out.
mayday, have you heard jens lekman? aloha? film school? my morning jacket? band of horses?

BlissedandGone2
01-25-2008, 06:47 PM
qft my friend.


woah woah, what? why? name a rock drummer who isnt jazz based who is better than most jazz drummers?

skipgo
01-25-2008, 06:56 PM
no silly,
"quoted for truth".
i was agreeing with you :D

BlissedandGone2
01-25-2008, 07:37 PM
no silly,
"quoted for truth".
i was agreeing with you :D

:rofl: i thought it was quit fucking talking. where have i been!:p

skipgo
01-25-2008, 07:43 PM
you goof!

BlissedandGone2
01-25-2008, 07:46 PM
anyways, back on topic, i really think billy and jimmy have a great perspective on old and new music alike. they have a great sense about music in general. so what i guess im trying to say is, this thread is dumb.

pumpkinxyu
01-25-2008, 09:46 PM
What bothered me was when billy explained how much work they put into finding the 'right' guitar, the 'right' amp and the 'right' fx box to each individual guitar part...news flash: the guitar sound isnt that great to justify the amount of time they probably spent getting the 'right' tone for various parts of the album.

I agree. The album does not sound like it was written by a mature song writer. It is VERY juvenile.

billy is a gear and tone nut. just because you don't like the guitar or drum sounds on Zeitgeist doesn't mean billy and jimmy weren't extremely meticulous about getting the sounds that they were seeking. it is an extremely non-traditional sounding record, but as someone who has worked at a major rock recording studio and has played guitar for over ten years, i don't necessarily consider my opinion completely lacking in validity when i think that they really succeeded sonically with Zeitgeist. that doesn't mean it's a success for you, nor should it, but billy's dedication to finding the EXACT sound for EVERY part is a good thing. his dedication comes through on this record, and i get frustrated that so many people dismiss something they don't like as a lack of effort. because billy certainly knows more about guitar tones than anyone on this board. the guy's been making records for ten years and played a zillion shows. the fact that he's still willing to work as hard as he does, be it compulsive or voluntary, is a testament to his caliber as an artist. you can say it's too bad he spent so much time finding sounds that you don't like, but maybe next time he'll find a sound that excites you. then we can all cheer.

the "juvenile" songwriting comment is even less substantial. just because it doesn't suit your taste doesn't make it juvenile. i care more about writing songs than anything else in the world and i feel that billy has been more consistent in his ability to evolve while writing prolifically than anyone except maybe david bowie. but billy's better, and there aren't many people who can say that. i would also add that those who dismiss both Zeitgeist and TheFutureEmbrace as examples of bad songwriting don't know much about songwriting. there are examples of compositional maturity on both of these albums that are new steps for billy. maybe the listeners are the ones who aren't mature enough to listen to these records, but that's never addressed or admitted. it was certainly true with Adore. when it came out, it was over my head. and while i didn't feel the need to belittle it myself, i can certainly remember reading the same accusations of billy losing his touch then, too. a year after it came out, Adore clicked with me. it's some of billy's best work, and i think most people on this board would agree with that. time will tell with Zeitgeist, but regardless, i'm really proud and excited by what the band has done.

DeviousJ
01-25-2008, 10:34 PM
billy is a gear and tone nut. just because you don't like the guitar or drum sounds on Zeitgeist doesn't mean billy and jimmy weren't extremely meticulous about getting the sounds that they were seeking. it is an extremely non-traditional sounding record, but as someone who has worked at a major rock recording studio and has played guitar for over ten years, i don't necessarily consider my opinion completely lacking in validity when i think that they really succeeded sonically with Zeitgeist. that doesn't mean it's a success for you, nor should it, but billy's dedication to finding the EXACT sound for EVERY part is a good thing. his dedication comes through on this record, and i get frustrated that so many people dismiss something they don't like as a lack of effort. because billy certainly knows more about guitar tones than anyone on this board. the guy's been making records for ten years and played a zillion shows. the fact that he's still willing to work as hard as he does, be it compulsive or voluntary, is a testament to his caliber as an artist. you can say it's too bad he spent so much time finding sounds that you don't like, but maybe next time he'll find a sound that excites you. then we can all cheer.

the "juvenile" songwriting comment is even less substantial. just because it doesn't suit your taste doesn't make it juvenile. i care more about writing songs than anything else in the world and i feel that billy has been more consistent in his ability to evolve while writing prolifically than anyone except maybe david bowie. but billy's better, and there aren't many people who can say that. i would also add that those who dismiss both Zeitgeist and TheFutureEmbrace as examples of bad songwriting don't know much about songwriting. there are examples of compositional maturity on both of these albums that are new steps for billy. maybe the listeners are the ones who aren't mature enough to listen to these records, but that's never addressed or admitted. it was certainly true with Adore. when it came out, it was over my head. and while i didn't feel the need to belittle it myself, i can certainly remember reading the same accusations of billy losing his touch then, too. a year after it came out, Adore clicked with me. it's some of billy's best work, and i think most people on this board would agree with that. time will tell with Zeitgeist, but regardless, i'm really proud and excited by what the band has done.

"It's all just subjective, man!!!"

You like the production and the guitar tones - great, good for you. Many people feel the production is misjudged and the guitars are often pushed so far back that they lack the weight and character they should have. You think the songwriting is great and that you're an authority on the subject - fantastic. A lot of people feel that most of the songs are weak or uninteresting, especially compared with the band's earlier output.

So how about some examples? You seem more concerned with the amount of effort that went into recording the album and Billy's reputation than with talking about the final result. Where exactly are these sonic triumphs we should be rapt over? And what moments really define this advancement in songwriting ability?

As for the radio comments, I get the feeling Billy still thinks of himself as being in that select 'mainstream' group, those artists and bands who were popular in the 90s and constantly on TV, on the radio and on the covers of magazines, and were basically guaranteed attention - and that's partly why he wanted his 'band' back. So when he talks about there being no good music at there, it's like he's disappointed in who he thinks his peers are.

dustrock
01-25-2008, 10:40 PM
As for the radio comments, I get the feeling Billy still thinks of himself as being in that select 'mainstream' group, those artists and bands who were popular in the 90s and constantly on TV, on the radio and on the covers of magazines, and were basically guaranteed attention - and that's partly why he wanted his 'band' back. So when he talks about there being no good music at there, it's like he's disappointed in who he thinks his peers are.

But I think even in the 90s, Billy didn't really identify with his peers. He's talked before about how he didn't understand how the Pumpkins were lumped in with the grunge scene, every band he referenced back then (Floyd, Sabbath, the Cure) weren't current bands.

With "Bleeding the Orchid", he mentions how it sounds like an Alice In Chains song, and how he didn't "get" them for the longest time.

DeviousJ
01-25-2008, 10:53 PM
But I think even in the 90s, Billy didn't really identify with his peers. He's talked before about how he didn't understand how the Pumpkins were lumped in with the grunge scene, every band he referenced back then (Floyd, Sabbath, the Cure) weren't current bands.

With "Bleeding the Orchid", he mentions how it sounds like an Alice In Chains song, and how he didn't "get" them for the longest time.

Yeah, but didn't he at least appreciate other bands who were in the same media arena, even if he felt his own band was maybe put in the wrong category? Lots of people say that the mainstream in the 90s was much different, and that now there just isn't the same quality - it feels like Billy agrees, but he also sees his place as being in that mainstream. There are great bands right now who aren't in that major label publicity sphere, but it seems like he doesn't want to associate his band with them because he feels he belongs 'up there'.

And I'm getting this from things like his 'I want my band (and what it meant in the world) back' statement, his expectations of huge sales as though the band had never missed a step, etc. Did he also refuse to play smaller shows, or resent having to play smaller venues or something along those lines?

stumpycat
01-26-2008, 12:31 AM
Yeah, but didn't he at least appreciate other bands who were in the same media arena, even if he felt his own band was maybe put in the wrong category? Lots of people say that the mainstream in the 90s was much different, and that now there just isn't the same quality - it feels like Billy agrees, but he also sees his place as being in that mainstream. There are great bands right now who aren't in that major label publicity sphere, but it seems like he doesn't want to associate his band with them because he feels he belongs 'up there'.

Exactly. It seems like there is a certain amount of delusion involved with Billy Corgan's perceptions and that his aims are also contradictory when placed in the place/time context of the reality in which his band exists.

As far as BC-JC's lack of listening to "modern" music at the moment...why would I give a fuck? As far as I know Billy especially has always drawn upon a cadre of old fuddie duddie artists for both listening pleasure and inspiration. Hell, much of the time I find myself wishing that a little more of their decent influence would rub off on him and reflect more directly in some of his more contemporary work.

stumpycat
01-26-2008, 12:43 AM
In fact, a lot of today's bands offer so much more musically than those of the 60's - 90's, albeit in a different way. I can't help but feel that acts like Postal Service, Death Cab, Bloc Party and even SSPU have a much more sophisticated grasp of harmony, song structure and technology than the Pumpkins are displaying at the moment.
When you say "today's bands", are you speaking of the fairly popular/mainstream shit or something else? Because a lot of what I hear is not exactly the height of sophistication. For whatever reason I always associate better musicianship, orchestration, and musical maturity within the popular mainstream music of its times to the popular successes of these aforementioned past bands.

dustrock
01-26-2008, 12:50 AM
There are great bands right now who aren't in that major label publicity sphere, but it seems like he doesn't want to associate his band with them because he feels he belongs 'up there'.

And I'm getting this from things like his 'I want my band (and what it meant in the world) back' statement, his expectations of huge sales as though the band had never missed a step, etc. Did he also refuse to play smaller shows, or resent having to play smaller venues or something along those lines?

It's almost like he's doubting himself, which I never thought he'd do. Zwan had some amazing songs....and then the album came, which was a disappointment to most....but the critics generally liked it....and the band fell apart.

Then he releases TheFutureEmbrace, which, if not his best work, was at least under his own name and relatively interesting...and then the very day it gets released, he publishes a full-page ad asking to bring back SP.

And it sounds like it was Jimmy who tried to get ahold of James & D'arcy, not Billy, and it was Jimmy who auditioned Ginger, Lisa and Jeff for SP2.

Edit: But again, I'm not concerned about whether or not Billy's listening to whatever band is depeche mode

wilch
01-26-2008, 05:19 AM
Oh yeah, all this RTB worshipping as well. I mean for fuck's sake, he produced THE DARKNESS album! Probably the worst, most anachronistic band of the past 10 years.

fuck you the darkness are amazing. You clearly havent heard the solo in "is it just me?"

Rockin' Cherub
01-26-2008, 06:50 AM
the smashing pumpkins were never a very innovative band, but yeah, it's becoming more and more obvious and it pisses me off. it's like there is no inspiration in billy's life anymore. i thought that guy liked music. instead he likes the romanticism of thousands of people singing his words and the nostalgia of reuniting a band without two former members

Rockin' Cherub
01-26-2008, 06:52 AM
i mean that guy used to listen to joy division and now he's just some sort of rockist gramps who thinks our times produce no music that is worthwhile

what happened

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 08:00 AM
I'll rephrase for people coming back with "fuck you, the darkness are amazing" and "The darkness album went 1.5 times platinum". Do you not not think if the Pumpkins embraced some of the good elements of modern music and/or its production values, their sound would be more relevant. I think those of you citing muse and Mars Volta are missing my point. Muse are a great technical band but rely too heavily on music theory; it's like they've had their creativity and flair trained out of them, they use horrible generic synth arpeggiations behind obvious chord progressions; their music is like fucking cod-classical (imo) there is nothing refreshing about their sound. Mars Volta, albeit a great band, would have been just as at home in the seventies - I'm talking about melodic progression here as well, not just technological. Maybe the bands I brought up weren't the best examples but the point is still the same.

Aslo, there is nothing wrong with Jimmy referencing Jazz drummers from 1200BC but to write off every single fucking album thats producer has deployed pro tools at some point in the process of recoding/mixing/mastering of it is a little bit sweeping and of course it's going to put him out of touch.

Oh yeah Floppy Nono in that same fucking wiki artice re. The Darkness that you pulled out of your arse: "Their highly retro style of music was influenced by rock bands like Queen, AC/DC, Guns N' Roses, Aerosmith, Sparks, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen"

Anachronism: A person or thing which seems to belong to a different time.


What's your point exactly?

skipgo
01-26-2008, 08:06 AM
you're one of those people who doesn't like when others disagree with you? (no "eh" here, no sir)

i don't think that because jimmy references his favorite drummers as being from a long time ago necessarily means he's "writing off" newer ones. Your favorites are your favorites; you don't MAKE something your favorite, it just is what it is. And I think they have mentioned newer bands they like, such as Gliss and The Boxer Rebellion, Silversun Pickups, to name a few.

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 08:17 AM
I don't mind people who disagree with me at all. What I can't stand is when they miss my point completely and then ask antagonist questions such as "what's your point?" or disguise a statement as question and then finish it with "Eh". I mean, what did that "eh" add to what you were trying to say?

I think at some point Jimmy mentioned not listening to pro tools produced albums - that can be construed as him writing them off.

Rockin' Cherub
01-26-2008, 08:34 AM
"Greatvegetable" is an angry linguistic minimalist with an unshakeable mindset.

welcome to netphoria, you passed the test

skipgo
01-26-2008, 08:35 AM
where did you hear jimmy say that he didn't listen to pro tools produced albums? I have an m-audio video from the session where he's laying down tracks to release as samples that people can use. If he was so anti pro tools, would he be helping other people use pro tools, or any other sequencing program?

by the way, i wasn't disguising a statement as a question; it was very clearly a question, hence the punctuation. don't be a dick when people disagree with you, and maybe others will take you more seriously.

or:

welcome to netphoria, you passed the test

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 08:43 AM
LOL! The punctuation was what disguised it. The use of the "eh" was what gave it away as rhetorical!

I'm only being a dick in response to the dickishness of other people. In fact, you'll probably find me to be quite amiable if you would try to step up to my level.

Jimmy has mentioned the pro tools thing a few times.

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 08:46 AM
Shit, I got that wrong. It's a fucking statement with an "eh" and a question mark!

skipgo
01-26-2008, 08:47 AM
i'd really like to see some reference to that if you can find it, because i've only heard him say that <b>he</b> doesn't want to use pro tools. I find it hard to imagine that he wouldn't listen to a band based on how they recorded their music.

and seriously man, i was just talkin' (or um, typing)
there's no need to be rude, because i wasn't being so.
i think you're taking way too much from my "eh" there.

skipgo
01-26-2008, 08:48 AM
if it makes you feel better i can edit it out. would that bring us to the realm of friendly debate?

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 08:59 AM
Ha Ha thanks! I'm just having a laugh. I'm too old to be having arguments about semantics on a messageboard. Anyway, I'll find one of those Jimmy comments in a bit. I'm going to start a fight on Brick Lane.

skipgo
01-26-2008, 09:04 AM
good, i was just having a laugh too, so we're on the same page!

please do find one of those comments for me; if it's true, jimmy's a bit of a dolt. (a lovable, talented dolt, of course)

tcm
01-26-2008, 10:55 AM
i mean that guy used to listen to joy division and now he's just some sort of rockist gramps who thinks our times produce no music that is worthwhile

joy division were a metal band.

skipgo
01-26-2008, 11:09 AM
joy division were a metal band.


:rockon:

Forgotten Child
01-26-2008, 11:37 AM
I can't help but feel that acts like Postal Service, Death Cab, Bloc Party

:erm:

Duke
01-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Billy and Jimmy not listening to modern music or drawing from it is not a problem for me nor do I feel it's an issue for them. Even during the MCIS days Billy always admitted to listening to older music, stuff from the 70's. Not much has changed. The question of relevance comes up and that's a whole different animal. Rock music these days isn't relevant on the mainstream level. Hip Hop has taken over and dominates everything. While I do not like most of today's hip hop or pop music that rules the radio I do believe that rock acts have to try and fight to be relevant on the big stage with these acts. Most people aren't going to search bands out via the internet or whatever. It can be said that it's their loss, but at the end of the day it's everybody's loss because these bands get lost in the shuffle.

Also, there was some talk about Billy's songwriting being juvenile. While I do not agree we can all remember Adore. That undoubtedly is Billy's most mature work and that got trashed all around.

skipgo
01-26-2008, 11:41 AM
i'm one of the people who agreed the songwriting was juvenile. I absolutely worshipped adore from the second the sounds first hit my ear. You cannot compare zeitgeist to adore :noway:

SlingeroGuitaro
01-26-2008, 11:43 AM
uh huhh


adore:good::zeitgeist:bad

skipgo
01-26-2008, 11:44 AM
two different beasts, they are.

tcm
01-26-2008, 11:45 AM
apes + oranjutans right.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-26-2008, 11:51 AM
jim + dwight

tcm
01-26-2008, 11:53 AM
i'm a kevin man myself.

what album would kevin be? a little something smashing-pumpkins-related to ponder.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-26-2008, 11:57 AM
hell yeah. i think kevin and stanley would make a great wrestling duo

skipgo
01-26-2008, 12:19 PM
don't get yourselves banned, my little texans.

Corgan Rules
01-26-2008, 12:29 PM
what saddens me the most is what billy said on the zeitgeist documentary. that when jimmy and him started out working on new songs they found themselves sounding like 93 and 98 pumpkins and then went into a different direction.

Some of you still don't get it! You still waiting for Siamese Dream 2? It aint going to happen. Billy has been telling this stuff all along that he wants to go in newer directions and not try to make music that he has already made before. Billy gets bashed every time his new music comes out and it's not Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream 2, but if people would wake up they would understand that won't be coming anytime in the future of the Pumpkins.

With that being said, if you guys are only fans of his older work and want that again, go somewhere else and find a new band. Im tired of Billy making good new music and you people just complain all the time that it's not like his old music.

This wasn't just directed at you. There are so many people that feel the same way. If you guys can't appreciate Billys new music, then move on with your life!

SlingeroGuitaro
01-26-2008, 12:30 PM
Corgan rules!

smashingjj
01-26-2008, 12:35 PM
i kind of missed the new direction though

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 01:07 PM
Actually listening back to some older stuff now - Glynis, Never let me down, In The
arms of sleep and millieu have all played randomly followed by Again Again Again and the magnitude of what those older songs made me feel - through something ineffable in the music - compared to how empty Again x3 sounded, completely negated this whole modern/retro debate in my mind. This band's music is just so dry compared to what it used to be. This can be attributable to a lot of things. But my point is that in 'The day' there was no fucking comparison, there was no need to talk about what the Pumpkins were missing in relation to other bands. The Pumpkins were untouchable, their music was so full of warmth and soul that transcended notes, chords, melody etc (maybe it had a bit to do with those things and production!). Now, that is not the case. Music has progressed and the Pumpkins sadly have regressed, hence me even mentioning them in the same sentence as what are now their 'contemporaries'. No I'm not asking for another SD or MCIS I'm asking for music that has the same all encompassing effect on me when I listen to it, either that, get back on the acid or embrace the synth revolution JK! That sort of makes sense to me.

???
01-26-2008, 01:20 PM
sup man, sorry i've missed your recent shows. shit always seems to come up at the last minute lately :(

skipgo
01-26-2008, 01:26 PM
Actually listening back to some older stuff now - Glynis, Never let me down, In The
arms of sleep and millieu have all played randomly followed by Again Again Again and the magnitude of what those older songs made me feel - through something ineffable in the music - compared to how empty Again x3 sounded, completely negated this whole modern/retro debate in my mind. This band's music is just so dry compared to what it used to be. This can be attributable to a lot of things. But my point is that in 'The day' there was no fucking comparison, there was no need to talk about what the Pumpkins were missing in relation to other bands. The Pumpkins were untouchable, their music was so full of warmth and soul that transcended notes, chords, melody etc (maybe it had a bit to do with those things and production!). Now, that is not the case. Music has progressed and the Pumpkins sadly have regressed, hence me even mentioning them in the same sentence as what are now their 'contemporaries'. No I'm not asking for another SD or MCIS I'm asking for music that has the same all encompassing effect on me when I listen to it, either that, get back on the acid or embrace the synth revolution JK! That sort of makes sense to me.


i agree with every word you've just posted. Now be on the lookout for Corgan Rules.

Greatvegetable
01-26-2008, 01:29 PM
That's cool James. How are you my dear?

T&T
01-26-2008, 01:47 PM
i think the deal with "jimmy being anti-protools" is that he doesn't "listen" to pro-tools drums...
it's easy for him to not consider "in the box produced instrument" not the real thing...
why should HE try to learn from that, when it's a differnt skill altogether
"in the box drums" are for producers and whatnot.. not a REAL LIFE BLEEDING drummer like FUCKING JIMMY!

to his drummer ears its not drumming, it's programing



it's like a pianist who says he doesn't listen to "midi piano music"

idiotkid
01-26-2008, 02:00 PM
this is an interesting discussion that held my attention for as long as i thought it would. i don't have a lot to offer seeing as i have massive amounts of work to do at the moment, but someone needs to make those two a fucking "modern" mix cd. hurry.

???
01-26-2008, 02:00 PM
That's cool James. How are you my dear?

well i just got all my coursework out the way, so pretty relieved about that...although i just got a new job so i'm still not sure how my time is gonna pan out with regards to seeing gigs and stuff. i'm definitely gonna try and make it to the valentine's one though. also been jamming with a coupla people but nobody i'm keen on yet

skipgo
01-26-2008, 02:09 PM
whaddaya think this is, general chat!!

???
01-26-2008, 02:13 PM
oops. thread derailed

T&T
01-26-2008, 02:22 PM
Actually listening back to some older stuff now - Glynis, Never let me down, In The
arms of sleep and millieu have all played randomly followed by Again Again Again and the magnitude of what those older songs made me feel - through something ineffable in the music - compared to how empty Again x3 sounded, completely negated this whole modern/retro debate in my mind. This band's music is just so dry compared to what it used to be. This can be attributable to a lot of things. But my point is that in 'The day' there was no fucking comparison, there was no need to talk about what the Pumpkins were missing in relation to other bands. The Pumpkins were untouchable, their music was so full of warmth and soul that transcended notes, chords, melody etc (maybe it had a bit to do with those things and production!). Now, that is not the case. Music has progressed and the Pumpkins sadly have regressed, hence me even mentioning them in the same sentence as what are now their 'contemporaries'. No I'm not asking for another SD or MCIS I'm asking for music that has the same all encompassing effect on me when I listen to it, either that, get back on the acid or embrace the synth revolution JK! That sort of makes sense to me.
i agree with every word you've just posted. Now be on the lookout for Corgan Rules.

I agree with this too
but i know more-so that something inside of me has changed

i don't want to get old
skipgo, i'm afraid for my constitution

1100ww
01-26-2008, 02:49 PM
Aslo, there is nothing wrong with Jimmy referencing Jazz drummers from 1200BC but to write off every single fucking album thats producer has deployed pro tools at some point in the process of recoding/mixing/mastering of it is a little bit sweeping and of course it's going to put him out of touch.

Nah, I was at one of JC's drum clinics, and he rattled off a whole list of newer/current drummers that he admires. And there may be a lot of ways SP is "out of touch"...but Jimmy's playing sure as hell ain't one of 'em.

Those jazz drummers from 1200 BC are an enormous part of why Jimmy is such a fucking badass.

Duke
01-26-2008, 03:01 PM
Actually listening back to some older stuff now - Glynis, Never let me down, In The
arms of sleep and millieu have all played randomly followed by Again Again Again and the magnitude of what those older songs made me feel - through something ineffable in the music - compared to how empty Again x3 sounded, completely negated this whole modern/retro debate in my mind. This band's music is just so dry compared to what it used to be. This can be attributable to a lot of things. But my point is that in 'The day' there was no fucking comparison, there was no need to talk about what the Pumpkins were missing in relation to other bands. The Pumpkins were untouchable, their music was so full of warmth and soul that transcended notes, chords, melody etc (maybe it had a bit to do with those things and production!). Now, that is not the case. Music has progressed and the Pumpkins sadly have regressed, hence me even mentioning them in the same sentence as what are now their 'contemporaries'. No I'm not asking for another SD or MCIS I'm asking for music that has the same all encompassing effect on me when I listen to it, either that, get back on the acid or embrace the synth revolution JK! That sort of makes sense to me.

This has as much to do with the listener as the artist. I understand how people don't like the post adore pumpkin records. They're not as over the top emotionally. Billy has gone the total opposite and the music has become quite distant and cold. I'm in the minority of fans who appreciate this approach as much as the former. As you get older you feel less inclined to have your heart on your sleeve. There's still emotion and soul in his music. You just have to work a little harder to get to it now.

Mariner
01-26-2008, 03:49 PM
Some of you still don't get it! You still waiting for Siamese Dream 2? It aint going to happen. Billy has been telling this stuff all along that he wants to go in newer directions and not try to make music that he has already made before.

what about making music that other people have already made before? i'm giving starz a listen and i can't get over the late 80s metallica/the darkness guitar leads.

tcm
01-26-2008, 04:07 PM
This has as much to do with the listener as the artist. I understand how people don't like the post adore pumpkin records. They're not as over the top emotionally. Billy has gone the total opposite and the music has become quite distant and cold. I'm in the minority of fans who appreciate this approach as much as the former. As you get older you feel less inclined to have your heart on your sleeve. There's still emotion and soul in his music. You just have to work a little harder to get to it now.

i'm with you. plenty of my favorite music is relatively cold, so i don't see the problem. if that naked emotion is part of your definition of the band, what has always drawn you to their music, then you would understandably be turned off now, just as someone who defined the band as guitar-driven bombast was understandably turned off by Adore, for instance.

of course there are other things that one can say are missing from Zeitgeist or American Gothic, but things that define the band for me, the honesty, the dedication to music, the drive to create and share it, are still there as far as i'm concerned.

Quiet CD
01-26-2008, 04:14 PM
Jimmy said that he doesn't listen to any modern music in this article: http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129754 as well as referencing cream and bunch of 18th century jazz drummers. Billy's hanging out with these crazy hippies, is always referencing 60's and 70's music and is always advertising his lack of belief in contemorary music.

Does anyone think this may be the reason why they seem to be so out of touch? I mean Jimmy says in that article that he thought AG was interesting and different! A lot of Bands these days are strong melodically, compositionally and in production. I think that the Pumpkins are stuck in a bit of a time-warp and need to wake up a little and accept that there is some fucking good modern music out there and embrace some of the facets that SP2 are missing. In fact, a lot of today's bands offer so much more musically than those of the 60's - 90's, albeit in a different way. I can't help but feel that acts like Postal Service, Death Cab, Bloc Party and even SSPU have a much more sophisticated grasp of harmony, song structure and technology than the Pumpkins are displaying at the moment.

If the Pumpkins were to add that to their sound -which is still amazing - I think they would produce richer, more intersting music and maybe the world would accept them again.


Oh yeah, that and get back on the acid.

This is wrong, BC listens to MCR.

pumpkinxyu
01-26-2008, 04:53 PM
of course there are other things that one can say are missing from Zeitgeist or American Gothic, but things that define the band for me, the honesty, the dedication to music, the drive to create and share it, are still there as far as i'm concerned.

amen. perfectly worded. what's the storytellers quote during the "Try, Try, Try" story? "it's not that the music has become colder and less honest...it's that i've gotten colder as a person." something like that?

and for everyone asking about jimmy and billy not listening to any music recorded in ProTools...that's not what either of them said. nor do they refuse to listen to newer bands who use ProTools. i know billy's an interpol fan, jimmy's a muse/mars volta fan. but getting back to the ProTools stuff, they record to tape because it has a certain sound that recording digitally, directly to ProTools, doesn't. it especially changes the sound of the drums and the low end, so jimmy is particularly adamant about this.. for the most part, though, a lot of artists who do record to tape for the sound are still willing to be rhythmically tightened and vocally tuned up to "perfection" because that's simply the level of "quality" that the major labels and radio stations (and advertisters on the radio station) are going to want. and if you want to sell records, there ya go. but aside from digital editing as an explorational tool (ie: Adore), billy and jimmy are very performance-oriented so when they used "ProTooled" as a verb, they're referring to having someone go through and fix parts so they sound like they were played by a human metronome. in reality, this ability to ProTool (the verb) can help out shitty players to sound "pro" when they should either accept the way they play or practice harder. for great players like jimmy, tightening him to a rhythmic grid would only suck the life out of his performance. and especially as a jazz player, it's the very human quality of being in front of and behind the beat on purpose that gives him the JC feel. he's controlling the timing and his performance is the foundation for everything else. jimmy's quotes from Nov. 2007's Modern Drummer:

"The world is ready for something with some balls behind it. The days of safe, Pro Tooled music are over. I just can't get emotionally connected to something that was recorded to a click track in a computer. I'm too much of a jazz fan and a fan of music in general to get behind anything like that. It just bugs me.

Seeing people respond to this record has been really interesting. We recorded everything live to tape -- and we didn't use click tracks, and we didn't use Pro Tools. We didn't do any digital editing ant all either, so the drum takes you hear are just me going for it. People really respond to that. They want to hear human beings making music, not a Macintosh G5.

Having lived in LA for the last three years, I know a lot of drummers out here who are fantastic, but when their record is done it's been Pro Tooled to death and it doesn't even sound like them. I also hear drummers taking chances on records who would never do so if they didn't feel their butts were covered by Pro Tools."

i don't know that jimmy is right about the days of ProTooling being over or about the response to the record, but i hope he is, because i love his playing on this record and i'm sick to fucking death of shitty drum records sounding the way they're supposed to according to marketing people.

DeviousJ
01-26-2008, 06:58 PM
Some of you still don't get it! You still waiting for Siamese Dream 2? It aint going to happen. Billy has been telling this stuff all along that he wants to go in newer directions and not try to make music that he has already made before. Billy gets bashed every time his new music comes out and it's not Mellon Collie or Siamese Dream 2, but if people would wake up they would understand that won't be coming anytime in the future of the Pumpkins.

With that being said, if you guys are only fans of his older work and want that again, go somewhere else and find a new band. Im tired of Billy making good new music and you people just complain all the time that it's not like his old music.

This wasn't just directed at you. There are so many people that feel the same way. If you guys can't appreciate Billys new music, then move on with your life!

NP: Geek USA

Oh wait, it's the last minute of Tarantula

stumpycat
01-27-2008, 12:23 AM
Actually listening back to some older stuff now -
[...] But my point is that in 'The day' there was no fucking comparison, there was no need to talk about what the Pumpkins were missing in relation to other bands. The Pumpkins were untouchable, their music was so full of warmth and soul that transcended notes, chords, melody etc (maybe it had a bit to do with those things and production!). Now, that is not the case.
Yes, I agree with this point!

...................
Music has progressed and the Pumpkins sadly have regressed, hence me even mentioning them in the same sentence as what are now their 'contemporaries'.
...So...what's up with this? How does this conclusion logically follow at all from the argument you are apparently making above? In a sense you are negating what you just stated was the case: that if that sort of "timeless brilliance" came back into SP's music, this whole argument about "not keeping up with the times" or current style would be rendered a completely moot point.

Do you not not think if the Pumpkins embraced some of the good elements of modern music and/or its production values, their sound would be more relevant.
Well, to a certain degree they already tried that with Zeitgeist and the results did not sound too fucking good to my ears! Their attempt at sounding more "modern" and "relevant" does not at all pass the smell test for me. Hence, I don't think it's something they should really bother with at all. It just ends up sounding rather awkward and uncharacteristic.

MistaMista1
01-27-2008, 01:22 AM
Billy will eventually make music that sounds like SD/MCIS era pumpkins again. Eventually he'll be so desperate for popularity, he'll concede.

But I do agree that Tarantula = Geek USA.

DeviousJ
01-27-2008, 09:27 AM
Billy will eventually make music that sounds like SD/MCIS era pumpkins again. Eventually he'll be so desperate for popularity, he'll concede.

But I do agree that Tarantula = Geek USA.

I'll present the evidence