i'm definitely a fan of corgans older vocals especially mellon collie and adore. but there's something about the rose march vocals that really works. it sounds like he once again feels what he is saying...at least to me.

la la la...la la laaaaaaa..........

do the la la las work for you? for some people they're kind of :erm:.

they don't really bother me... but i was mostly talking about they way he sings the song not what he's saying

not a fan of consonants?

not a fan of consonants?

lol, when billy first started singing live again the lack of consonants thing was driving me nuts. but that very thing that i hate so much is what makes his vocals seem so emotional on this song. i swear if he sung it "normal" it would seem hollow.

considering billy corgan's voice, I don't think he ever sang normally... please define normal

I don't really hear the consonants thing on The Rose March, i notice it live though.

pigeont--ode

Maybe it's because of the lah dee dahs and the background ohhhs in that one part, but the vocals make me want to puke in the studio version of that song.

I don't like the missing and delayed consonants (c----an't you ss----eee meee?).
But I can live with them.


What really annoys me about Rose March (and several other songs) is that Billy now suddenly thinks his voice should replace what should be a string section, or a synth section.

Imagine Rose March, especially the "ooooh" and "oooooh" that start around 1:50 or so, if those vocals were replaced by some cool-sounding instrument instead of Billy's voice.

I think it would have sounded a lot better that way.



Bleeding the Orchid is similar. Maybe ONCE during the intro would Billy's voice have worked, but every where else (like during the fucking chorus), the "aaaaaah"'s should have been strings or something cool like some weird guitar sound or whatever, and it would have been so much cooler.

I don't like the missing and delayed consonants (c----an't you ss----eee meee?).
But I can live with them.


What really annoys me about Rose March (and several other songs) is that Billy now suddenly thinks his voice should replace what should be a string section, or a synth section.

Imagine Rose March, especially the "ooooh" and "oooooh" that start around 1:50 or so, if those vocals were replaced by some cool-sounding instrument instead of Billy's voice.

I think it would have sounded a lot better that way.



Bleeding the Orchid is similar. Maybe ONCE during the intro would Billy's voice have worked, but every where else (like during the fucking chorus), the "aaaaaah"'s should have been strings or something cool like some weird guitar sound or whatever, and it would have been so much cooler.i agree with the rose march. strings would have been sweet in place of lala's, but i think the aaaaaaaaahs really add to bto. i wouldn't change it. i love that part in the chorus. and live it sounds killer.

I don't really hear the consonants thing on The Rose March, i notice it live though.

Me either.

What really annoys me about Rose March (and several other songs) is that Billy now suddenly thinks his voice should replace what should be a string section, or a synth section.

Imagine Rose March, especially the "ooooh" and "oooooh" that start around 1:50 or so, if those vocals were replaced by some cool-sounding instrument instead of Billy's voice.

I think it would have sounded a lot better that way.



Bleeding the Orchid is similar. Maybe ONCE during the intro would Billy's voice have worked, but every where else (like during the fucking chorus), the "aaaaaah"'s should have been strings or something cool like some weird guitar sound or whatever, and it would have been so much cooler.



That's a really good point, especially for Rose March. It'd have had a Mellon Collie B-side type of quality if the ooooh's had been slide guitar effects or something.

And yeah, the whole consonant-missing gimmick he seems to think is amazing these days is so stupid. It sounds pretentious, like he's contriving emotion or something. I hate it.

I think at the end his vocals are perrrfect, but they really suck cock to start with. and i dont mind the ladeedas that much

I don't like the missing and delayed consonants (c----an't you ss----eee meee?).
But I can live with them.


What really annoys me about Rose March (and several other songs) is that Billy now suddenly thinks his voice should replace what should be a string section, or a synth section.

Imagine Rose March, especially the "ooooh" and "oooooh" that start around 1:50 or so, if those vocals were replaced by some cool-sounding instrument instead of Billy's voice.

I think it would have sounded a lot better that way.



Bleeding the Orchid is similar. Maybe ONCE during the intro would Billy's voice have worked, but every where else (like during the fucking chorus), the "aaaaaah"'s should have been strings or something cool like some weird guitar sound or whatever, and it would have been so much cooler.

That's a really good point, especially for Rose March. It'd have had a Mellon Collie B-side type of quality if the ooooh's had been slide guitar effects or something.

If this were the mid 90's (aka good ol' days) there would have been a mellotron all over the place.

If this were the mid 90's (aka good ol' days) it would have been a mellotron every time.

that does sound kinda boring, now that you mention it.

What really annoys me about Rose March (and several other songs) is that Billy now suddenly thinks his voice should replace what should be a string section, or a synth section.

.

string section, or a synth selection - READ: James Iha guitar part. That's what you really meant

string section, or a synth selection - READ: James Iha guitar part. That's what you really meant

I'm not at liberty to either confirm or deny that James Iha was an influence on the SP sound.

But an e-bow would have sounded swell.

string section, or a synth selection - READ: James Iha guitar part. That's what you really meant

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I'm not at liberty to either confirm or deny that James Iha was an influence on the SP sound.

But an e-bow would have sounded swell.

I probably would have felt the same way as you a year ago, but i'm beginning to find it less likely that billy was responsible for all the flourishes in the original SP. perhaps he was, but after AG and zeit, he hasn't presented much of an argument....

on the other hand, it has been a decade since the heart of SP1, so maybe.

Billy was just trying something new...
he'll probably ditch that new vocal layering stuff by the time the zeitgeist era is over

how can you guys not hear it?

on "pigeon-toed"

he says "pigeont---oed"

and "c---ant you see me"

how can you guys not hear it?

on "pigeon-toed"

he says "pigeont---oed"

and "c---ant you see me"

Don't here it on pigeontoed at all, he's just holding the toe, i don't see how that equates to anything to do with consonants. That "can't you see me" is fine ( i can kind of see what you're saying though). In fact "i just KKK 'ant help say so" is the only example i can really hear.

watch "to sheila" on the myspace spain performance, if i remember right he does it alot on that song

how can you guys not hear it?

on "pigeon-toed"

he says "pigeont---oed"

and "c---ant you see me"

The "c---ant" still sounds like a screwup in the mp3 to me.

The "la la la" thing at the start is weird, until you hear the end of the song, where it all makes sense. The song starts to sound circular, you gotta rise above it, you gotta harvest the good energy and block out the bad. Harvest energy, block bad. Feel the flow, feel it, it's circular. Its like a carousel. You pay the quarter, you get on the horse, and you go up and down and around...in a circular circle with the music, the flow, all good things."

watch "to sheila" on the myspace spain performance, if i remember right he does it alot on that song

Yeah he does, but it's not a huge deal for me. It hasn't at all reached in to anything thats been recorded. Everyone's just hoping for one more thing to fault him on, and in this case there's really nothing there.

Billy was just trying something new...
he'll probably ditch that new vocal layering stuff by the time the zeitgeist era is over

ok we'll take your word for it.

I agree that these are some of his most emotive vocals since Machina.

how can you guys not hear it?

on "pigeon-toed"

he says "pigeont---oed"

and "c---ant you see me"

See for me those arent dropped consonants. Its almost slurred. "Caaa chew see me..." Its just how he sings it. Its not annoying. It works for me (its in the flow) and is some of the best vocal work in a bit.

The MBC on the other hand.....

But live it was annoying... "oooday is the graaa eest" almost lazy. either that or on some of the goodness

ok we'll take your word for it.

Seems obvious RTB had a huge influence on the vox for Zeitgeist.

Seems obvious RTB had a huge influence on the vox for Zeitgeist.

obvious how?

obvious how?

Well, he produced Starz, Bring the Light, and Pomp and assisted on Tarantula, he also helped mix the album.

And Rose March he helped produce, so it was written during the Zeitgeist sessions.

All these songs have MBC and very Queen-ish, front-mixed vocals. I thought this was already discussed to death when Zeitgeist was released, I don't understand why people are so surprised at the sound of Rose March when RTB was involved.

I'd be very surprised if the next album had the same vocal production.

And Rose March he helped produce, so it was written during the Zeitgeist sessions.

The fact that he helped produce the track doesnt mean it was written during the zeitgeist sessions. It may have been but that notion alone doesnt make it so.

The fact that he helped produce the track doesnt mean it was written during the zeitgeist sessions. It may have been but that notion alone doesnt make it so.

well, it was the only song on AG that RTB was part of, we know for a fact that Billy had the song written for the Townsend shows....although, I don't think it was on the Zeitgeist whiteboard.

Occam's Razor, right?