View Full Version : #1 Overrated Album of 2007: The Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist


Brute Squad
01-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Just thought y'all would like to know...

According to the new Under the Radar magazine I just got in my mailbox, Zeitgeist is the most overrated album of 2007, and here's what they had to say about it:

An insult and a farce in every way - from Billy Corgan's decision to "reunite" the band with only two of the original four members to the multiple album formats sold only at specific outlets - Zeitgeist is a pathetic attempt to revive a moribund career with flat riffs and self-important songwriting. The new costumes are pretty cool, though.
By Matt Fink


In case you're wondering, the rest of the Top 10 Overrated Albums of 2007 are:

2. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
5. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah - Some Loud Thunder
6. Dan Deacon - Spiderman of the Rings
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers
9. No Age - Weirdo Rippers
10. The Field - From Here We Go Sublime

skipgo
01-22-2008, 05:55 PM
so they liked it?


no really, was it overrated? who's overrated it? I've mostly just seen it torn down all over the place.

also, i like how all the indie snobs (and most of netphoria) like to give them so much grief about reuniting with only two original members. As if countless bands hadn't done the same with little fanfare. Face it, billy's the guy journalists love to hate.

loser2d
01-22-2008, 05:58 PM
I agree with the costumes though, they are bad ass.

redbull
01-22-2008, 05:59 PM
there is no way Spiderman of the Rings should be on that list

Mayfuck
01-22-2008, 06:04 PM
no one overrated this album. still though i guess any compliment on zeitgeist could qualify as overrated.

i agree with no age and the field though.

slunken
01-22-2008, 06:12 PM
As if countless bands hadn't done the same with little fanfare. Face it, billy's the guy journalists love to hate.

countless bands haven't taken out full-page ads on the day their solo album comes out and made such a big fucking deal about it

???
01-22-2008, 06:34 PM
my new hypothesis

zeitgeist was an ironic statement. the album was only meant to be as good as the musical climate it was a part of. the musical zeitgeist is shit, therefore the album should be shit. well, almost shit.

redbull
01-22-2008, 06:45 PM
my new hypothesis

zeitgeist was an ironic statement. the album was only meant to be as good as the musical climate it was a part of. the musical zeitgeist is shit, therefore the album should be shit. well, almost shit.

stop posting

ravenguy2000
01-22-2008, 06:53 PM
indie snobs

oh god

Mr. Mister
01-22-2008, 07:00 PM
my new hypothesis

zeitgeist was an ironic statement. the album was only meant to be as good as the musical climate it was a part of. the musical zeitgeist is shit, therefore the album should be shit. well, almost shit.

This is what I'm going to start telling non-pumpkins fans and pumpkins fans alike. Many thanks for the "out".

Brute Squad
01-22-2008, 07:09 PM
indie snobs

I thought of this (http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/510742180.html) when you brought up the phrase "indie snobs" God, I love the best of craigslist.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-22-2008, 07:32 PM
funny, you can take that entire list, remove the records, rename it 'most over rated bands of 2007' and keep the list pretty much intact

skipgo
01-22-2008, 07:48 PM
oh god

don't give me that 'oh god' crap. you and i both know they exist, and they despise corgan (when they bother to give him a second thought). I've known plenty of them.

skipgo
01-22-2008, 07:49 PM
I thought of this (http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/510742180.html) when you brought up the phrase "indie snobs" God, I love the best of craigslist.

lol.

Esty
01-22-2008, 07:49 PM
don't give me that 'oh god' crap. you and i both know they exist, and they despise corgan (when they bother to give him a second thought). I've known plenty of them.

Don't you have anything new to post, we've heard this all before.

skipgo
01-22-2008, 07:49 PM
countless bands haven't taken out full-page ads on the day their solo album comes out and made such a big fucking deal about it

touché

skipgo
01-22-2008, 07:50 PM
Don't you have anything new to post, we've heard this all before.

ironic, coming from you.

Esty
01-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Yeah, you've said that before. Say something new.

<sp3
01-22-2008, 07:51 PM
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump


i hate the white stripes

Esty
01-22-2008, 07:51 PM
??? this makes no sense. bands don't make solo albums.

Leave the discussion idiot.

xezton
01-22-2008, 08:01 PM
The Smashing Pumpkins are on the right track.

Write a not-so-good album cuz you're a "new" ('reunited') band. Write a second album that is pretty good and gets some attention now that you've got your sound, and then do a third album that floors everyone in the media.

It's a vicious cycle.




Or they could fail miserably at this whole Smashing Pumpkins thing.


A lot of American Gothic sounded like a Zwan clone. This, I think, is actually a good thing, soundwise.






But yeah, with all the secrets and quiet at the beginning, yet unimaginable amounts of hype, this album was a sort of let down. I still like it, but it didn't live up to the expectations they built for it.

skipgo
01-22-2008, 08:15 PM
But yeah, with all the secrets and quiet at the beginning, yet unimaginable amounts of hype, this album was a sort of let down. I still like it, but it didn't live up to the expectations they built for it.


i can get behind this.
i don't think it was "overrated" because i don't think anyone said anything good about it to begin with. but i do think it was an overall disappointment, even though i don't hate it or anything.

MisterSquishyHalo
01-22-2008, 08:23 PM
Just thought y'all would like to know...

According to the new Under the Radar magazine I just got in my mailbox, Zeitgeist is the most overrated album of 2007, and here's what they had to say about it:

An insult and a farce in every way - from Billy Corgan's decision to "reunite" the band with only two of the original four members to the multiple album formats sold only at specific outlets - Zeitgeist is a pathetic attempt to revive a moribund career with flat riffs and self-important songwriting. The new costumes are pretty cool, though.
By Matt Fink


In case you're wondering, the rest of the Top 10 Overrated Albums of 2007 are:

2. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
5. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah - Some Loud Thunder
6. Dan Deacon - Spiderman of the Rings
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers
9. No Age - Weirdo Rippers
10. The Field - From Here We Go Sublime


Over-rated? I didn't see too many publications raving about Zeitgeist.

AlaskanBastard
01-22-2008, 08:33 PM
I agree, Zeitgeist didn't really get rave reviews

and their costumes are horrible

MonteLDS
01-22-2008, 08:35 PM
overrated? Not sure i would agree with that.

over hyped, i could side with that idea..

skipgo
01-22-2008, 08:40 PM
overrated? Not sure i would agree with that.

over hyped, i could side with that idea..

over hyped; good call.

tensionhead
01-22-2008, 08:49 PM
i think that "under the radar" is the number 2 under-rated magazine in the world.

it is what it is.

i_adore_adore
01-22-2008, 08:52 PM
i adore zeitgeist.

still.

smashapumpkin
01-22-2008, 09:14 PM
stop adoring things

andrewface
01-22-2008, 09:18 PM
no one liked zeitgeist how can it be overrated?

ciGarski
01-22-2008, 09:49 PM
stop adoring things

seriously, its getting annoying.

M.Night
01-23-2008, 12:03 AM
Just thought y'all would like to know...

According to the new Under the Radar magazine I just got in my mailbox, Zeitgeist is the most overrated album of 2007, and here's what they had to say about it:

An insult and a farce in every way - from Billy Corgan's decision to "reunite" the band with only two of the original four members to the multiple album formats sold only at specific outlets - Zeitgeist is a pathetic attempt to revive a moribund career with flat riffs and self-important songwriting. The new costumes are pretty cool, though.
By Matt Fink


In case you're wondering, the rest of the Top 10 Overrated Albums of 2007 are:

2. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
5. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah - Some Loud Thunder
6. Dan Deacon - Spiderman of the Rings
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers
9. No Age - Weirdo Rippers
10. The Field - From Here We Go Sublime

MATT FINK IS GONNA DIE-
HERE IS HIS MYSPACE: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=17334312

LET S OPEN A CAN OF WHOOP ASS

mccririck
01-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Just thought y'all would like to know...

According to the new Under the Radar magazine I just got in my mailbox, Zeitgeist is the most overrated album of 2007, and here's what they had to say about it:

An insult and a farce in every way - from Billy Corgan's decision to "reunite" the band with only two of the original four members to the multiple album formats sold only at specific outlets - Zeitgeist is a pathetic attempt to revive a moribund career with flat riffs and self-important songwriting. The new costumes are pretty cool, though.
By Matt Fink


In case you're wondering, the rest of the Top 10 Overrated Albums of 2007 are:

2. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
5. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah - Some Loud Thunder
6. Dan Deacon - Spiderman of the Rings
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers
9. No Age - Weirdo Rippers
10. The Field - From Here We Go Sublime

I agree with all those, The View's album is quite pleasant though.

mccririck
01-23-2008, 12:28 AM
no one overrated this album.

Actually I think many reviewers did when it was released. look at the ratings it got by some reviewers at release time, then look at the end of year lists where it doesn't feature on most of them at all.

jjbjjbjjb
01-23-2008, 12:47 AM
Actually I think many reviewers did when it was released. look at the ratings it got by some reviewers at release time, then look at the end of year lists where it doesn't feature on most of them at all.

Citation or it isn't true

ciGarski
01-23-2008, 12:53 AM
it was given 4 stars by RS and 3 and a half by spin. other then that it was a pretty mixed reviewed album.


RS included it on the 50 best albums of the year.

mostly,it seemed that it was viewed just as corgan anticipated. nothing epic but some decent tunes. no more, no less.

now i said "viewed" as he anticipated. not "sold".

but still to call this overrated is pretty retarded by a half ass periodical. no one said it was hands down best thing that happened this year, except for modern drummer which called it the drum album of the year. which i haven't found too many records to combat that claim.

Fritter
01-23-2008, 01:00 AM
Actually I think many reviewers did when it was released. look at the ratings it got by some reviewers at release time, then look at the end of year lists where it doesn't feature on most of them at all.
But the MOST overrated? It's mildly overrated at best, it got like 59% at metacritic.

ciGarski
01-23-2008, 01:03 AM
if mccriricirick ate billy corgans turds he'll complain it tasted bad and blame billy for letting him do it.

mccririck
01-23-2008, 01:22 AM
if mccriricirick ate billy corgans turds he'll complain it tasted bad and blame billy for letting him do it.

I did eat Billy's turd, I'm just glad I didn't pay for it this time.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-23-2008, 01:25 AM
1 billy 1 cup?

mccririck
01-23-2008, 01:27 AM
1 billy 1 cup?

I'd like to see that. I doubt he'd puke though. It'd stay down.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-23-2008, 01:28 AM
have you seen the kermit reaction?


yeah. it would be a lot like that

darcyismybass
01-23-2008, 02:09 AM
ironic, coming from you.

:rofl:

osamy
01-23-2008, 12:49 PM
Well, Rolling Stone, Spin, New York Times, Village Voice, Filter - it was well liked in certain quarters.

Actually, as I recall, take a look at the evolution of reactions to Zeitgeist. The first reviews I remember reading were, "Hmm, it's good. Nothing special, not ground-breaking, but good." Even Corgan detrators liked "Tarantula" in the press. But what happened here was a good case of mass-media personae overshadowing the work. Subsequent reviews were focused on Corgan's personality, and the fact that this wasn't a reunited band. Very little was focused on music: and say what you want about the music, but it truly is a collaborative album (very few of the negative reviews mention the drumming, an element which floored me). That so many of these negative reviews should not even take notice of Jimmy C. was a little troubling. It's like watching "There Will Be Blood" and not discussing Daniel Day-Lewis.

Not to harp on intellectual matters, but the point of "Zeitgeist" is tied in with the influence of media/videoscopy/public signifiers on the general populace. Corgan should be credited, in the titling of his record, with its reception, whether its content is good or bad. Two friends of mine, who were never Pumpkins fans (both are over 25), thought it was the album of the year. I wasn't willing to give it so much credit, but maybe there's something to the album.

Don't get me wrong. "American Gothic" is the shittiest thing Corgan's put out in his career.

Mayfuck
01-23-2008, 01:01 PM
don't give me that 'oh god' crap. you and i both know they exist, and they despise corgan (when they bother to give him a second thought). I've known plenty of them.

congratulations, you've joined the legions of nickelback and green day (which is pretty much the level SP are at right now) fans who view ''indie snobs'' in the exact same light.

SpFission
01-23-2008, 01:04 PM
seriously, its getting annoying.

you're becoming bitter.. must be the red stars :eek:

Mayfuck
01-23-2008, 01:04 PM
the drumming is ridiculously cartoonish on zeitgeist

jesus, i love the excuses people are making in this thread for why zeitgeist tanked

because it was an ironic statement no one got...

because it was a calculated attempt to make the next forthcoming album sound good...

becuase billy's personae overshadowed the music...

Do you think if any of those were true that the quality of music would override those false pretenses? It doesn't because Zeitgeist is insanely mediocre and utterly forgettable.

jczeroman
01-23-2008, 01:23 PM
2. Wilco - Sky Blue Sky
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
5. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah - Some Loud Thunder
6. Dan Deacon - Spiderman of the Rings
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers
9. No Age - Weirdo Rippers
10. The Field - From Here We Go Sublime

I have no idea what any of this stuff is.

smashingjj
01-23-2008, 01:26 PM
i agree with no age

i thought i was alone in this world

Shallow
01-23-2008, 02:22 PM
it's overrated because some people like it?

sucks....

Tribute2JohnnyB
01-23-2008, 02:33 PM
i don't understand how this was overrated.
I can see SBS as one, but common.....and I LOVE WIlco.

ciGarski
01-23-2008, 04:59 PM
you're becoming bitter.. must be the red stars :eek:

Satan mostly rules most of my daily activities. i sleep till 5, i don't see the sun, and i sleep with as many people as possible.


being one of his minions and all, i feel kind of biased for this question.

Mariner
01-23-2008, 06:02 PM
Subsequent reviews were focused on Corgan's personality, and the fact that this wasn't a reunited band. Very little was focused on music: and say what you want about the music, but it truly is a collaborative album (very few of the negative reviews mention the drumming, an element which floored me). That so many of these negative reviews should not even take notice of Jimmy C. was a little troubling. It's like watching "There Will Be Blood" and not discussing Daniel Day-Lewis.

Not to harp on intellectual matters, but the point of "Zeitgeist" is tied in with the influence of media/videoscopy/public signifiers on the general populace. Corgan should be credited, in the titling of his record, with its reception, whether its content is good or bad. Two friends of mine, who were never Pumpkins fans (both are over 25), thought it was the album of the year. I wasn't willing to give it so much credit, but maybe there's something to the album.

Don't get me wrong. "American Gothic" is the shittiest thing Corgan's put out in his career.

just who the iha do you think you are

Nimrod's Son
01-23-2008, 06:03 PM
also, i like how all the indie snobs (and most of netphoria) like to give them so much grief about reuniting with only two original members. As if countless bands hadn't done the same with little fanfare. Face it, billy's the guy journalists love to hate.

no, "countless bands" haven't done that, especially not after the same two memeber were a part of another "band" and a "solo record" in between that were both commercial and critical failures. if you're really too blind to see that the only reason that the band "reunited" is so that corgan could once again use the name and hope the unsuspecting public didn't realize there was no difference between this band and the two previous incarnations post-pumpkins, then i feel truly sorry for you.

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:04 PM
what difference does it make what name he uses? why do you care so much? it's just a fucking name, it's not sacred. it's a stupid name, at that.

crowded house, inxs, duran duran, depeche mode, the doors, alice in chains, the pretenders, journey. those are some off the top of my head that reunited without original members. I'm sure there are many others, hence the word "countless"

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:06 PM
Do you think if any of those were true that the quality of music would override those false pretenses? It doesn't because Zeitgeist is insanely mediocre and utterly forgettable.

yeah. i hate to agree with this, but i sort of have to. I don't think it was horrible, I like some of the songs, but it is indeed mediocre. I'm sure if I weren't such a fan of the band, I wouldn't listened to it as much as I have. I don't think I've played it at all since I saw them in november.

redbull
01-23-2008, 06:06 PM
what difference does it make what name he uses? why do you care so much? it's just a fucking name, it's not sacred. it's a stupid name, at that.

evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!ev ade!evade!

pale blue eyes
01-23-2008, 06:14 PM
Heh. Exactly.

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:15 PM
congratulations, you've joined the legions of nickelback and green day (which is pretty much the level SP are at right now) fans who view ''indie snobs'' in the exact same light.

hey, some of my best friends are indie snobs, unfortunately. I'd say you have no idea how I view them.

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:17 PM
evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!evade!ev ade!evade!

is this some reference to something that i'm supposed to understand?

redbull
01-23-2008, 06:20 PM
you pathetic bitch

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:24 PM
whatever pal.

tensionhead
01-23-2008, 06:31 PM
what difference does it make what name he uses? why do you care so much? it's just a fucking name, it's not sacred. it's a stupid name, at that.

crowded house, inxs, duran duran, depeche mode, the doors, alice in chains, the pretenders, journey. those are some off the top of my head that reunited without original members. I'm sure there are many others, hence the word "countless"

you forgot about gwar.

do fans of other bands get all up in arms about old members? like the cure. are they all pissed that smith keeps putting out records with different members? or morbid angel? is this really that upsetting?

skipgo
01-23-2008, 06:32 PM
apparently it's one of the 7 deadly sins.

redbull
01-23-2008, 06:34 PM
you forgot about gwar.

do fans of other bands get all up in arms about old members? like the cure. are they all pissed that smith keeps putting out records with different members? or morbid angel? is this really that upsetting?

Robert Smith is the only major personality in The Cure (aside from maybe Porl). You don't see Boris Williams doing alot of interviews or having fansites set up for him.

skipgo
01-23-2008, 07:43 PM
so this makes a difference because people like james more than they like boris?

i don't deny that billy used the name to sell records; i feel pretty sure he did. I just don't get why so many people are all butthurt about it. james doesn't seem to care, so why should anyone else?

redbull
01-23-2008, 07:46 PM
yes, it makes a difference because people view James as being integral to SP moreso than Boris to The Cure

Mablak
01-23-2008, 07:59 PM
James wasn't that integral to SP. I don't think there's a band out there with a style more dependent on the lead singer than SP, that can really be considered a band.

aldango
01-23-2008, 08:05 PM
crowded house...those are some off the top of my head that reunited without original members.
And how glorious this one has been :D

ciGarski
01-23-2008, 08:31 PM
yes, it makes a difference because people view James as being integral to SP

hahahahahahahahahahahaha oh man redbull you crack me up. this fuckin guy.

slunken
01-23-2008, 09:01 PM
zeitgeist is still good; i'm just anxiously waiting for more

redbull
01-23-2008, 09:03 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahaha oh man redbull you crack me up. this fuckin guy.

eat shit

skipgo
01-23-2008, 09:10 PM
And how glorious this one has been :D
yes, i love them! can't stop listening to their new one.

skipgo
01-23-2008, 09:15 PM
yes, it makes a difference because people view James as being integral to SP moreso than Boris to The Cure

naw.
how about alice in chains carrying on without layne? are diehard aic fans throwing fits about it? obviously he was more integral to aic than james was to sp. I still don't know if i believe james was that big a part of the "sound". i like how you fuckers act like you know everything that went on with this band behind closed doors. I miss james' presence in the band because of his personality, but as to what he did and didn't contribute musically, I don't know. i DO know that his solo songs and songs he wrote for sp mostly sucked, so that tells me a little something.

jjbjjbjjb
01-23-2008, 11:28 PM
...in other news, <em>Under a Rock</em> magazine says In Rainbows was the most overpriced record of 2007

tensionhead
01-23-2008, 11:32 PM
^...in other news, <em>Under a Rock</em> magazine says In Rainbows was the most overpriced record of 2007

^:banging::censored:

bja1288
01-24-2008, 12:48 AM
i cannot believe this band argument has not died yet. can we drop it please and just let the music talk. If youre gonna discuss zeitgeist discuss the shittiness of the songs and drop the ambiguity of the band situation

Brute Squad
01-24-2008, 12:58 AM
James wasn't that integral to SP. I don't think there's a band out there with a style more dependent on the lead singer than SP, that can really be considered a band.

True, but one cannot deny the "asian mystique" of James Iha. That and he was regularly banging D'arcy in her prime, so that has to count for something...

MistaMista1
01-24-2008, 01:15 AM
I never appreciated James until the day I saw the BWBW performance on snl.

:rockon: Red Spandex :rockon:

No but really, you have to SEE him play guitar to appreciate it.

Shapan
01-24-2008, 04:05 AM
people dont dislike zeitgeist because they are indie snobs they dislike zeitgeist because it is bad.

Mariner
01-24-2008, 04:25 AM
I never appreciated James until the day I saw the BWBW performance on snl.

:rockon: Red Spandex :rockon:

No but really, you have to SEE him play guitar to appreciate it.

i know what you're saying, but really - listening is usually sufficient.

see: end of the '96 brixton academy TTEOR posted in several threads around here, his beautiful lead on 'to sheila' from the Glass Towers internet radio broadcast, etc., live in-studio soloing on x.y.u., dueling with billy on silverfuck 08.jan.97, etc. etc. etc.

Esty
01-24-2008, 04:47 AM
I'm getting pretty bored with skipgos SP defense. If I agree to get muted, can we mute her too? Seeing her shit day in and day out is making me ill.

Kahlo
01-24-2008, 05:20 AM
put her on your ignore list then

Ever
01-24-2008, 05:39 AM
lol I like Zeitgeist

skipgo
01-24-2008, 07:24 AM
put her on your ignore list then

.

Rockin' Cherub
01-24-2008, 07:31 AM
mainstream media just didnt care for zeitgeist. it hasn't been overrated for sure.

ah that list is crap. maybe i agree about dan deacon

pale_princess
01-24-2008, 11:27 AM
An insult and a farce in every way - from Billy Corgan's decision to "reunite" the band with only two of the original four members to the multiple album formats sold only at specific outlets - Zeitgeist is a pathetic attempt to revive a moribund career with flat riffs and self-important songwriting. The new costumes are pretty cool, though.
By Matt Fink




"you were thinking it but i said it!"

skipgo
01-24-2008, 11:47 AM
for some reason, even though i'm annoyed with most people who endlessly bitch about sp2, it doesn't bother me when pale_princess does it. It's like her trademark or something.

ciGarski
01-24-2008, 12:33 PM
Seeing her shit day in and day out is making me ill.

1skipgo1cup

skipgo
01-24-2008, 12:36 PM
esty has a weak stomach.

ciGarski
01-24-2008, 12:37 PM
i can watch you shit day in and day out skipgo.

skipgo
01-24-2008, 12:43 PM
cigarski has a strong stomach.

waltermcphilp
01-24-2008, 12:50 PM
:apopcorn:

Gary
01-25-2008, 05:12 PM
3. Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare
4. The White Stripes - Icky Thump
7. Kings of Leon - Because of The Times
8. The View - Hats Off to the Buskers

I dont think these albums are overrated at all. Theyre all pretty good and the music press havent exactly wanked over them (apart from maybe the monkeys one). As for Zeitgeist I cant remember one positive review, so surprise surprise this list is as useless as any other that people tend to publish at this time of year.

ciGarski
01-25-2008, 08:18 PM
As for Zeitgeist I cant remember one positive review, so surprise surprise this list is as useless as any other that people tend to publish at this time of year.

it was given 4 stars by RS and 3 and a half by spin. other then that it was a pretty mixed reviewed album.


RS included it on the 50 best albums of the year.

mostly,it seemed that it was viewed just as corgan anticipated. nothing epic but some decent tunes. no more, no less.

now i said "viewed" as he anticipated. not "sold".

modern drummer which called it the drum album of the year. which i haven't found too many records to combat that claim.

.