View Full Version : What's wrong with SP since 2000?


Patuquitos
01-10-2008, 07:17 PM
I know this point comes up in every tread and under a huge variety of disguises, but I'm interested in a general opinion.

Many people here dismiss SP 2008, but many others keep claiming that the music SP produces is still good. Being maybe too simplistic, it could be stated that most of us would agree with "SP are still good, but nowhere near as good as in the mid-nineties".

Well, which of these things is responsible for SP's slight decline? I've tried to gather all the well-known complaints.

monkeyfritters
01-10-2008, 07:18 PM
THEY SUCK
:lock:

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 07:20 PM
well since 2000 they broke up untill 2005. sooo...

MistaMista1
01-10-2008, 07:24 PM
They haven't played a whole week on Conan.

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 07:27 PM
senior won't share his heroin.

Patuquitos
01-10-2008, 07:27 PM
well since 2000 they broke up untill 2005. sooo...

Ok, ok. I mean Billy's projects.

Patuquitos
01-10-2008, 07:28 PM
senior won't share his heroin.

I laughed with that and I feel awful.

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 07:28 PM
someone link this kid to the spun demos.

yoshinobu's revenge
01-10-2008, 07:37 PM
"All of the above" option required. Well, actually I don't think he's lost his songwriting ability but his style/taste/editing is poor.

The other thing I'd say is that he takes the wrong feedback from the wrong fans. He thinks because he has 999999 myspace friends and tons of smashingpumpkins.com friendly comments he's doing great and SP are stronger than ever, when the opposite is true.

davin
01-10-2008, 07:51 PM
^ fuck that.

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING, thats the option required.

you can't capture the "magic" of a band's heyday. especially if you don't stop the endless comparisons when you shoudl just be trying to be as open to the new music, as you were to the old.

if you don't like the new material, you don't get it....or haven't given it the necessary committment. Its the logical next step from where they left off. It would have been the same album if James and Darcy were there...other than having better backing vocals (could you image RTB blending in dacry's dreamy vocals...that would have been awesome).

Speaking of the RTB production, if you don't like it thats subjective...and not the same as over-production (which i think was more of an issue with the Machinas and Adore than zeitgeist). When peeled back to their live form the songs all hold up and are kickass (again, like machinas and adore).

We will never be back at the Gish-->SD/PI-->MCIS/TAFH heyday. So get over it and grow up and evolve and change like billy has, because the new music is worthwhile if you give it a chance for one fucking moment and not just compare it to old stuff.

p.s. only the first line was truly dircted at YR's post. I was referring to "you" in a much bigger sense.

Patuquitos
01-10-2008, 07:59 PM
The whole poll is based on the premise "Billy's work is worse today", which, of course, is not presented as an absolute truth. Everybody please keep that in mind. I just want to know what are the reasons for those who adhere to that premise.

bja1288
01-10-2008, 08:01 PM
Billy Sr.
his drug habits and immorality have sent billy spinning out of control

Shapan
01-10-2008, 08:02 PM
by the way machina wasnt very good either

bja1288
01-10-2008, 08:03 PM
isle to thread

mistle
01-10-2008, 08:05 PM
davin is quite a moron, huh?

Banana
01-10-2008, 08:14 PM
I think any of these first 5 do it

Billy has lost his songwriting ability
Overproduction
Billy is unable to select the best songs for the albums
Billy is surrounded by ass lickers
Billy's newfound spirituality

davin
01-10-2008, 08:17 PM
by the way machina wasnt very good either

definitely worth than Z, imo....but still it wasn't as bad as people make it out to be. just over-produced with some general weirdness around the "mystery" that spoiled it.

arising and machina material live is fucking awesome.

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 08:21 PM
I love Machina, I love Zeitgeist. But I went with overproduction.

Those residency songs, man... those were good. The Rose March studio version? A huge step backward in my opinion.

James and D'arcy have little to do with it, I think.

Irridescent Fairysex
01-10-2008, 08:33 PM
1,3 and 4 in my opinion.

davin
01-10-2008, 08:37 PM
i feel like i'm sorrounded by ass lickers. does that mean my next album will suck?

ChaosEffect
01-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Darcy was the only one with guts to tell Billy if something sucked.
Billy cannot handle production.
He thinks the best songs are b-side material.

Irridescent Fairysex
01-10-2008, 08:45 PM
i feel like i'm sorrounded by ass lickers. does that mean my next album will suck?

If this an hiphotyetycal question? if not, I can't imagine an album from you that wouldn't suck. If it is, then yes it could. Being surrounded by ass lickers make you lose perspective which can result in making really bad artistic decisions.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 08:48 PM
i don't think there's anything "wrong" with them. If you (or I) don't like it, that's our problem, not bill's. I don't like some of the new stuff, but so what. The stuff I don't like doesn't suck just because i don't like it. You people think your own taste is all that matters. The fucking world revolves around you and your superior taste in music, am i right? get over yourselves.

Banana
01-10-2008, 08:52 PM
i don't think there's anything "wrong" with them. If you (or I) don't like it, that's our problem, not bill's. I don't like some of the new stuff, but so what. The stuff I don't like doesn't suck just because i don't like it. You people think your own taste is all that matters. The fucking world revolves around you and your superior taste in music, am i right? get over yourselves.


what a stupid fucking post

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 08:53 PM
whoa, skip!

skipgo
01-10-2008, 08:53 PM
you've been an idiot ever since you started posting here; i see nothing's changed. (bananafuck)

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 08:53 PM
what a stupid fucking post

yeah like you've made some great ones

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 08:54 PM
Darcy was the only one with guts to tell Billy if something sucked.


How do you know?

davin
01-10-2008, 08:54 PM
If this an hiphotyetycal question? if not, I can't imagine an album from you that wouldn't suck. If it is, then yes it could. Being surrounded by ass lickers make you lose perspective which can result in making really bad artistic decisions.

lol, don't worry, i'm no artist.....

but thanks for explaining the concept for me. :rolleyes: of course i understand the implications of being surrounded by a bunch of bandwagon-jumping-on yes men. i remember what happened with TFE.

i was being a smart-ass and talking about this thread...and being surrounded by ass-lickers like you.

RenewRevive
01-10-2008, 08:55 PM
Darcy was the only one with guts to tell Billy if something sucked.

flood did okay. oddly, billy appears to place value on this service provided by d'arcy, but seems unwilling to bring in a "replacement".

Billy cannot handle production.

oh, hell yeah.

He thinks the best songs are b-side material.

he has previous form for this, of course. the zeitgeist b-sides would not have saved the album however.

davin
01-10-2008, 08:55 PM
How do you know?

i believe billy has made comments in the past about her brutal honesty being a good thing for the band...but people have blown that out of proportion as if james and darcy get to go along a checklist and approve/edit billy's works.

Banana
01-10-2008, 08:57 PM
you've been an idiot ever since you started posting here; i see nothing's changed. (bananafuck)

hahah dumb cunt getting defensive over her stupid post.

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 08:58 PM
who are you again?

skipgo
01-10-2008, 08:59 PM
it's a fact that you're an idiot, whether i'm defensive or not. You make retarded comments like "now bill will make good music because his dad is on heroin". Yeah, that was a stellar post.

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 08:59 PM
i believe billy has made comments in the past about her brutal honesty being a good thing for the band...but people have blown that out of proportion as if james and darcy get to go along a checklist and approve/edit billy's works.

I agree with this. Although I obviously don't know, I think that whole "D'arcy was the crap-detector" theory is a little extreme. I'm sure she made suggestions, but especially later in their careers I don't imagine she cared too much how a song sounded.

EDIT: And stop arguing!!!! skipgo is always right :mad: (and I'm serious about that)

Banana
01-10-2008, 09:01 PM
who are you again?


Sorry I don't spend my entire days posting here like you do so that you can get to know me over the internet.

edit: it's a fact that you're an idiot, whether i'm defensive or not. You make retarded comments like "now bill will make good music because his dad is on heroin". Yeah, that was a stellar post.

And yeah, Corgan is just too happy go lucky now. It was posted earlier in this thread that he makes better music when he is more mental distress. Arguably their best record, SD, was written when he was on the brink of suicide.

ciGarski
01-10-2008, 09:01 PM
all that was said was that when he questioned his shit, he'd look over at darcy and sometimes she'd have a look of disapproval.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:01 PM
Sorry I don't spend my entire days posting here

thank god

Shapan
01-10-2008, 09:01 PM
with so much time passed i still like machina more than zeitgeist. really the first half of machina was really good, while like the first third of zeitgeist was pretty good. the rest of both albums had decent points scattered but really trailed off after good starts.

man its weird reading threads on this board.

ChaosEffect
01-10-2008, 09:02 PM
i believe billy has made comments in the past about her brutal honesty being a good thing for the band...but people have blown that out of proportion as if james and darcy get to go along a checklist and approve/edit billy's works.

Yes, but if having her around would make just ONE song from the album better than its worth it. Obviously shes not gonna criticize everything. Ass lickers aren't gonna say if something sounds bad or not.

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 09:02 PM
man its weird reading threads on this board.

why?

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 09:03 PM
Yes, but if having her around would make just ONE song from the album better than its worth it.

Worth having a mean-spirited drug addict who doesn't want to be there?

I'm not saying Billy shouldn't have SOMEONE there to tell him when something is off (or have a look of disapproval...) but really. D'arcy has clearly moved on.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:03 PM
i agree with you shapan, i like machina more than zeitgeist. which is weird, because it used to be the other way around. But in spite of my distaste for a lot of songs on machina, that album seemed to have a lot more feeling than zeitgeist.

ChaosEffect
01-10-2008, 09:08 PM
Worth having a mean-spirited drug addict who doesn't want to be there?

You believe everything Bill tells you? If shes still on drugs then yes all she wants to do is do drugs. Thats a terrible problem. But if she isn't then no she shouldn't be there. My point was that someone like her who Billy would listen to needs to be there.

Shapan
01-10-2008, 09:09 PM
why?

all the boards on this place are just so different, and the mix of the people who regularly post on this board and stray from the gen board mixed with random people that come in and contribute nothing just to read their own posts is interesting and peculiar to see at times. i guess im just use to the familiarity on the gen board.

davin
01-10-2008, 09:09 PM
it's a fact that you're an idiot, whether i'm defensive or not. You make retarded comments like "now bill will make good music because his dad is on heroin". Yeah, that was a stellar post.

no offense skipgo, you know i love ya........but i think what he meant in that heroin post is that angst and sadness in billy's life usually generates good artistic output......like we have seen from him in the past, when he writes really personal stuff like on gish, sd, adore. As cold and insensitive a comment that may be, there is some truth to it (poor billy).

could this mean we get songs a whole generation of ppl with drug addict parents could relate to? maybe....or maybe billy just bails his dad out and moves on.

now where did my mom leave my bong.... :smoke:

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:10 PM
it's definitely not a bad idea to have someone to bounce his ideas off of who might give him constructive criticism. I have to wonder how much of that he gets from Jimmy, if any.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:14 PM
no offense skipgo, you know i love ya........but i think what he meant in that heroin post is that angst and sadness in billy's life usually generates good artistic output......like we have seen from him in the past, when he writes really personal stuff like on gish, sd, adore. As cold and insensitive a comment that may be, there is some truth to it (poor billy).

could this mean we get songs a whole generation of ppl with drug addict parents could relate to? maybe....or maybe billy just bails his dad out and moves on.

now where did my mom leave my bong.... :smoke:

no offense taken; i know what he meant, but i was just talking about how it was a pretty selfish post. He said it was "kind of cool". When someone says that billy's dad getting arrested with a syringe hanging from his arm is "pretty cool" because maybe he'll get something entertaining out of it, and then goes on to insult my post, it's pretty laughable.
but yeah, i do see where that idea makes sense, insofar as billy tends to write more emotional work when his life is shit. To say that it's cool is just fucking stupid though.

davin
01-10-2008, 09:17 PM
fair enough. fuck you banana-man!

ChaosEffect
01-10-2008, 09:17 PM
all the boards on this place are just so different, and the mix of the people who regularly post on this board and stray from the gen board mixed with random people that come in and contribute nothing just to read their own posts is interesting and peculiar to see at times. i guess im just use to the familiarity on the gen board.

I lose interest in this board when it slows down. So I check it every several days to see whats happening. I try to contribute more so to the Music Board and SP than anything.

Banana
01-10-2008, 09:18 PM
no offense taken; i know what he meant, but i was just talking about how it was a pretty selfish post. He said it was "kind of cool". When someone says that billy's dad getting arrested with a syringe hanging from his arm is "pretty cool" because maybe he'll get something entertaining out of it, and then goes on to insult my post, it's pretty laughable.
but yeah, i do see where that idea makes sense, insofar as billy tends to write more emotional work when his life is shit. To say that it's cool is just fucking stupid though.

I don't know billy, and billy doesn't know me. Same goes for his dad. Therefor I have no personal attachment to his dad. For me to post and act all saddened and worried about his dad being arrested would be incredibly insincere. I like the Smashing Pumpkins because I like the music. And you both clearly realize that when billy makes his music more personal, the end result is that it ends up being a lot better than what we are getting these days. So yes, "pretty cool" because I like the Smashing Pumpkins for their music. So anything that will lead to better music output from Corgan is just grand.

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 09:19 PM
You believe everything Bill tells you? If shes still on drugs then yes all she wants to do is do drugs. Thats a terrible problem. But if she isn't then no she shouldn't be there. My point was that someone like her who Billy would listen to needs to be there.

I was only quoting that "mean-spirited drug addict" thing to poke a bit of fun at those blogs ;) But I have absolute confidence that Billy asked James and D'arcy back. I don't blame them for not coming back, either. People move on. There's nothing bad about that.

And I agree, I think anyone benefits from an outside opinion. It's easy to get caught up in an idea and forget that other people are going to be listening. Not that I believe that's necessarily the case with Billy, but someone needs to tell him not to make his vocals so dang dry.

i_adore_adore
01-10-2008, 09:20 PM
I don't know billy, and billy doesn't know me. Same goes for his dad. Therefor I have no personal attachment to his dad. For me to post and act all saddened and worried about his dad being arrested would be incredibly insincere. I like the Smashing Pumpkins because I like the music. And you both clearly realize that when billy makes his music more personal, it in result ends up being a lot better than what we are getting these days. So yes, "pretty cool" because I like the Smashing Pumpkins for their music. So anything that will lead to better music output from Corgan is just grand.

You honestly believe that no one sincerely has compassion for strangers? You go ahead and feel that way, but don't assume everyone else does.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:22 PM
instead of not acting saddened because it would be phony, why not just have some respect and not say anything at all?
i can agree with you on the idea that the music is better if something shitty happens to billy; To Martha is one of my favorite songs ever; that being said, i wouldn't think it was cool if his dad died because maybe he'd write another song that was that emotional.
but hey, whatever. you're obviously just not a very compassionate person, whatever makes you happy.

Banana
01-10-2008, 09:23 PM
You honestly believe that no one sincerely has compassion for strangers? You go ahead and feel that way, but don't assume everyone else does.

Did I say that? No I said "for me".

redbull
01-10-2008, 09:23 PM
all of those, actually

Banana
01-10-2008, 09:25 PM
instead of not acting saddened because it would be phony, why not just have some respect and not say anything at all?
i can agree with you on the idea that the music is better if something shitty happens to billy; To Martha is one of my favorite songs ever; that being said, i wouldn't think it was cool if his dad died because maybe he'd write another song that was that emotional.
but hey, whatever. you're obviously just not a very compassionate person, whatever makes you happy.


Because what the fuck does it matter skipgo? This is a fan message board, noone here personally knows Corgans dad. I'm not disrespecting anyone here by saying that. I highly doubt corgan comes here and reads all these posts.

RenewRevive
01-10-2008, 09:27 PM
he has servitors with this menial role.

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:28 PM
i said it doesn't matter. the last line of my post. it say's "whatever". and "whatever makes you happy".
i'm just pointing out that you aren't making lots of great, memorable posts.

redbull
01-10-2008, 09:30 PM
i said it doesn't matter. the last line of my post.

then what the fuck was the point of posting in the first place?

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:32 PM
then what the fuck was the point of posting in the first place?
it says right above your post why i posted it.
i'm done now, let's move on.

Charmbag
01-10-2008, 09:35 PM
I think Billy's songwriting is still good, but nothing else about this is working

skipgo
01-10-2008, 09:42 PM
Hey charmbag, are you still a fan of the band? I know a lot of people who post mostly on the gen boards tend to hate them now, so i'm just curious.

Duke
01-10-2008, 09:49 PM
Overall I don't think anything's wrong with Billy. I chose overproduction because the way I listen to and evaluate his music has changed. He goes so far left on the production of these newer records that I have to get over the shock of how much he's changed a particular song or added a new arrangement and then re listen. It takes me two to three takes now to get into the music where everything before was more immediate.

dudehitscar
01-10-2008, 09:52 PM
His singing is by far the biggest problem.

SpFission
01-10-2008, 09:59 PM
Hey charmbag, are you still a fan of the band? I know a lot of people who post mostly on the gen boards tend to hate them now, so i'm just curious.

lol, the gen board.

Disarmu
01-11-2008, 03:55 AM
His singing is by far the biggest problem.


Have to aggree. Billy has lost the anger in his voice..

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 04:32 AM
^ fuck that.

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING, thats the option required.

you can't capture the "magic" of a band's heyday. especially if you don't stop the endless comparisons when you shoudl just be trying to be as open to the new music, as you were to the old.

if you don't like the new material, you don't get it....or haven't given it the necessary committment. Its the logical next step from where they left off. It would have been the same album if James and Darcy were there...other than having better backing vocals (could you image RTB blending in dacry's dreamy vocals...that would have been awesome).

Speaking of the RTB production, if you don't like it thats subjective...and not the same as over-production (which i think was more of an issue with the Machinas and Adore than zeitgeist). When peeled back to their live form the songs all hold up and are kickass (again, like machinas and adore).

We will never be back at the Gish-->SD/PI-->MCIS/TAFH heyday. So get over it and grow up and evolve and change like billy has, because the new music is worthwhile if you give it a chance for one fucking moment and not just compare it to old stuff.

p.s. only the first line was truly dircted at YR's post. I was referring to "you" in a much bigger sense.

^^^ Fanboy of the highest degree.

Shapan
01-11-2008, 04:38 AM
well what did you expect

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 04:39 AM
I was only quoting that "mean-spirited drug addict" thing to poke a bit of fun at those blogs ;) But I have absolute confidence that Billy asked James and D'arcy back. I don't blame them for not coming back, either. People move on. There's nothing bad about that.

I don't honestly think that Bill himself asked either of them back...certainly not in any meaningful way. I'm willing to bet that he just had Jimmy talk to James perhaps. I just can't believe that he'd go out of his way like he did for Jimmy to get two people back with whom he had almost no rapport by the end of his association with them. Since when does BC give a shit about anyone but himself and "his" band?

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 04:39 AM
well what did you expect

I enjoy stating the obvious.

Spira|_
01-11-2008, 05:04 AM
"SP are still good, but nowhere near as good as in the mid-nineties".

I agreed 100% :D

I voted for:
Billy is trying to do something new all the time instead of making the music he feels like

Billy got bored of all acusations about his music in the 90's had been sad, depressed and mellancolic etc.... and now he wants to prove the opposite....but what he is making now is not himself, the new songs dont come from inside him so deeply as before... so now we have musics without salt like on Z album... :/

LOVE

p.s. Billy, call the real Billy outside again, No Fear. ^^ We are here waiting for you..............The world will end anyway, we (you) can't save it anyway, bring us the deep feelings again and lets wait for the doomsday clock in peace...

hoboj0e
01-11-2008, 06:18 AM
I voted for the inability to choose the better songs for each album.

Come to think of it, MCIS also suffered from that. BC clearly had some songs better than 10 of the ones that made it to the album (STRTJ, TAFH, God, Mouths of Babes, Marquis in Spades, Pennies, Cherry, Ugly, The Last Song), but chose versatility instead. MCIS is a great album, no question about that, but I think it would be even better with some of these songs included.

Adore could have been better with Saturnine, My Mistake and perhaps Let Me Give the World to You instead of filler songs like Perfect, Crestfallen and Apples+Oranjes.

Machina could have been one great album if BC chose the best 12 or 13 tracks from Machina I and II, and made a better effort in production and mixing (especially for the M2 songs).

Teh Zeitgeist missed three of the best tracks to pointless b-sides for multiple versions.
Stellar, Ma Belle and Zeitgeist are better than 80% of the Zeitgeist album imo, with Stellar probably being one of the best SP songs BC has written since 1999. Death from above isn't bad either, but I don't think it would improve the Z much.

Bottom line, someone else besides BC should choose the songs for future albums, god knows he's got plenty of great unused songs.

june_soma
01-11-2008, 09:57 AM
Gleder du deg til den 29. februar, eller? :)

hoboj0e
01-11-2008, 11:53 AM
Gleder du deg til den 29. februar, eller? :)

Det skal jeg love deg! Får bare håpe de drar fram noen geniale låter jeg ikke har hørt live på en stund så skal jeg bli skikkelig fornøyd.

Artig å se nordmenn på denne sida forresten, har ikke sett mye av det før gitt.

Var det ikke du med SP-tattisen? Regner med du også teller ned dager? :)

june_soma
01-11-2008, 12:03 PM
You betcha! Sendt deg en PM.

MonteLDS
01-11-2008, 12:06 PM
Those residency songs, man... those were good. The Rose March studio version? A huge step backward in my opinion.

James and D'arcy have little to do with it, I think.

i agree with the 1st part of this.

but even if james and d'arcy didn't do too much the picture of the band that has been engraved in my head is with those 2 people on stage.

spidrr
01-11-2008, 12:07 PM
not enough time spent on writing these songs. im talking specifically of zeitgeist here. drums have become pretty boring and basic as well.

i_adore_adore
01-11-2008, 12:09 PM
I don't honestly think that Bill himself asked either of them back...certainly not in any meaningful way. I'm willing to bet that he just had Jimmy talk to James perhaps. I just can't believe that he'd go out of his way like he did for Jimmy to get two people back with whom he had almost no rapport by the end of his association with them. Since when does BC give a shit about anyone but himself and "his" band?

Well, I disagree, and since neither of us have any way of proving it (except that Billy has said numerous times that he's asked them back) I'm going to go ahead and keep disagreeing with you :)

I don't buy into the cynicism of a lot of Pumpkins "fans."

skipgo
01-11-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't honestly think that Bill himself asked either of them back...certainly not in any meaningful way. I'm willing to bet that he just had Jimmy talk to James perhaps. I just can't believe that he'd go out of his way like he did for Jimmy to get two people back with whom he had almost no rapport by the end of his association with them. Since when does BC give a shit about anyone but himself and "his" band?

but don't you see that it's just speculation on your part? you have NO WAY of knowing whether billy asked them or not. Nothing even to base that on except a general negative feeling about billy.
Even to say that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself is a stretch, because you (and i, and most everyone here) know him only through soundbytes and the media. You have no clue who he gives a shit about, and to what extent. You simply have a bias against him and this is helping you make these assumptions that have absolutely no basis in any sort of fact whatsoever.
having said all that, i realize that you said you don't "think" he asked them back, and that it's just your opinion, which of course you're entitled to. I just happen to think that it's skewed by how you personally feel about the man.

Andrew_Pakula
01-11-2008, 12:33 PM
No All of the Above option?

skipgo
01-11-2008, 12:39 PM
so andrew, you hate them too? no wonder you don't care that the board's mods all hate sp and sp fans.

Oposie
01-11-2008, 12:58 PM
He cannot select the best songs for the albums. It is as plain as day.

Also, overproduction. Terry Date and the other guy were poor choices.

SP produced by Rick Rubin, please. Next album...we can hope.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 01:43 PM
so andrew, you hate them too? no wonder you don't care that the board's mods all hate sp and sp fans.

its one thing for the mods to hate sp but another for it to reflect in their moderating.

hnibos
01-11-2008, 01:51 PM
neverlost is the new single, example that billy is not in touch with anything other than his own cock.

i_adore_adore
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
Do you really think any song on Zeitgeist would work well as a single? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but Zeitgeist isn't really "commercial" (even though it sorta feels like it's trying to be...)

Just sayin'. I think anything they could have picked would have more or less failed on the radio.

Esty
01-11-2008, 03:37 PM
but don't you see that it's just speculation on your part? you have NO WAY of knowing whether billy asked them or not. Nothing even to base that on except a general negative feeling about billy.

Didn't James say in RS that he hadn't talked to billy in years when the record was about 2 months from release? About a month from the first show? How did billy ask him to come back if he hadn't talked to james at all? Oh, the ad where billy said he wanted his dreams back. That was bills way of asking. How nice. He probably had jimmy ask him since he has balls to talk shit about james behind his back and from a safe distance but not to his face. Either way, its pretty obvious asking james back (if it did infact happen) was made in a very insincere way of the man himself can't even bother doing it himsef.

I know you want to give bill the benefit of the doubt, but he's been a prick towards james/darcy since TFE, and he continues to disregard their impact on the band to this day with his bullshit "jim and I are 90% of all sp albums" nonsense. You swallow that fucking load down no questions asked, but complain about all the other bullshit with a lame excuse of "how do you really know".

We know the man enough, and heard enough about him to get a general idea. He can be kind and sweet, but it appears its only if you're sucking his dick or kissing his ass. If you don't, then your wrong, and not him.


As far as davins hysterical "you don't get it" shit, I mean, just wow. Talk about having no brains whatsoever. Someone has been drinking too much of the koolaid.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 03:48 PM
hi esty.

ravenguy2000
01-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Even if Billy could pick the best songs to go on the album Zeit would have still sucked. There's some better stuff he could have swapped out but it still wouldn't have been all that great.

areyougaffney?
01-11-2008, 03:52 PM
I don't think too much really. I'm really happy with how 2007 went with the sp.
Sure there are a few mistakes. It'll never be as good as the 1993-98 period but that doesn't make it bad.
I think on occassions, especially mary star a few of the best songs are left out but that doesn't make what they're doing wrong. I'm happy with them at the moment and looking forward to the future of the pumpkins.

areyougaffney?
01-11-2008, 03:57 PM
I voted for the inability to choose the better songs for each album.

Come to think of it, MCIS also suffered from that. BC clearly had some songs better than 10 of the ones that made it to the album (STRTJ, TAFH, God, Mouths of Babes, Marquis in Spades, Pennies, Cherry, Ugly, The Last Song), but chose versatility instead. MCIS is a great album, no question about that, but I think it would be even better with some of these songs included.

Adore could have been better with Saturnine, My Mistake and perhaps Let Me Give the World to You instead of filler songs like Perfect, Crestfallen and Apples+Oranjes.

Machina could have been one great album if BC chose the best 12 or 13 tracks from Machina I and II, and made a better effort in production and mixing (especially for the M2 songs).

Teh Zeitgeist missed three of the best tracks to pointless b-sides for multiple versions.
Stellar, Ma Belle and Zeitgeist are better than 80% of the Zeitgeist album imo, with Stellar probably being one of the best SP songs BC has written since 1999. Death from above isn't bad either, but I don't think it would improve the Z much.

Bottom line, someone else besides BC should choose the songs for future albums, god knows he's got plenty of great unused songs.



Perfect and crestfallen filler songs? They were both single choices? and damn good songs imo

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 03:58 PM
all killer no filler.

Charmbag
01-11-2008, 04:19 PM
Hey charmbag, are you still a fan of the band? I know a lot of people who post mostly on the gen boards tend to hate them now, so i'm just curious.
I have a lot of faith in Billy as a songwriter, so if he puts something out there I'm going to listen to it and give it a chance. but I find this segment of his career to be very forced and based on a patently false pretense.

Zeitgeist was murdered in the cradle because of so many factors that are non-musical, that once the music itself was shown to be mostly uninspired I felt pretty sad, but unsurprised. I don't consider this project to be a part of the Smashing Pumpkins legacy. it seems like Billy is trying to shove that idea down everyone's throats, but when I see Zeitgeist included in a Pumpkins discography it feels like a joke to me.

all that said, I have enjoyed some of the Zeitgeist material and I saw them play live twice. however I like TFE a lot better and wish he would have stuck to the solo thing, which I find to be much more sincere, and not tainted by what I feel to be self-deceit on his part.

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 04:31 PM
but don't you see that it's just speculation on your part? you have NO WAY of knowing whether billy asked them or not. Nothing even to base that on except a general negative feeling about billy.
Even to say that he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself is a stretch, because you (and i, and most everyone here) know him only through soundbytes and the media. You have no clue who he gives a shit about, and to what extent. You simply have a bias against him and this is helping you make these assumptions that have absolutely no basis in any sort of fact whatsoever.
having said all that, i realize that you said you don't "think" he asked them back, and that it's just your opinion, which of course you're entitled to. I just happen to think that it's skewed by how you personally feel about the man.

I never said my thoughts were anything approaching fact, I just don't believe a word out of his or even Jimmy's mouth anymore. They've made this band a joke.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
I have a lot of faith in Billy as a songwriter, so if he puts something out there I'm going to listen to it and give it a chance. but I find this segment of his career to be very forced and based on a patently false pretense.

Zeitgeist was murdered in the cradle because of so many factors that are non-musical, that once the music itself was shown to be mostly uninspired I felt pretty sad, but unsurprised. I don't consider this project to be a part of the Smashing Pumpkins legacy. it seems like Billy is trying to shove that idea down everyone's throats, but when I see Zeitgeist included in a Pumpkins discography it feels like a joke to me.

all that said, I have enjoyed some of the Zeitgeist material and I saw them play live twice. however I like TFE a lot better and wish he would have stuck to the solo thing, which I find to be much more sincere, and not tainted by what I feel to be self-deceit on his part.

I'm going to have to say that I agree with almost everything you just said there. Except that i only saw them once on this tour.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 04:35 PM
I never said my thoughts were anything approaching fact, I just don't believe a word out of his or even Jimmy's mouth anymore. They've made this band a joke.

fair enough.

xezton
01-11-2008, 04:42 PM
I have a lot of faith in Billy as a songwriter, so if he puts something out there I'm going to listen to it and give it a chance. but I find this segment of his career to be very forced and based on a patently false pretense.

Zeitgeist was murdered in the cradle because of so many factors that are non-musical, that once the music itself was shown to be mostly uninspired I felt pretty sad, but unsurprised. I don't consider this project to be a part of the Smashing Pumpkins legacy. it seems like Billy is trying to shove that idea down everyone's throats, but when I see Zeitgeist included in a Pumpkins discography it feels like a joke to me.

all that said, I have enjoyed some of the Zeitgeist material and I saw them play live twice. however I like TFE a lot better and wish he would have stuck to the solo thing, which I find to be much more sincere, and not tainted by what I feel to be self-deceit on his part.

Well said.

Do you think anything will change with whatever is to follow Zeitgeist?

i_adore_adore
01-11-2008, 05:01 PM
If Billy hired me as a bassist, the Pumpkins would be the incredible band they used to be. That's a FACT!

Okay, it's not really. In fact, it's probably a lie. I'd kiss his butt way too much, no matter what I say on this message board.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:05 PM
hi esty.


You either have me on ignore, or have absolutely no followup to any of the points I made. Since you're an idiot, I assume its both.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:05 PM
you're not worth a follow up.

Mayfuck
01-11-2008, 05:06 PM
however I like TFE a lot better and wish he would have stuck to the solo thing, which I find to be much more sincere, and not tainted by what I feel to be self-deceit on his part.

agreed. and now i'm thinking how he could have let the TFE material grow and evolve and see where he could have taken the whole shoegazy synth pop thing. too bad he can't stick to his guns for more than a second and regresses at any hint of critcism.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:14 PM
the revival was decided before any hint of criticism regarding the solo material.

somaziro
01-11-2008, 05:16 PM
the songs aren't bad....



























































































live

i_adore_adore
01-11-2008, 05:17 PM
I ADORE ZEITGEIST

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:22 PM
You either have me on ignore, or have absolutely no followup to any of the points I made. Since you're an idiot, I assume its both.

i don't have you "on ignore". but i am choosing not to pay attention to your dumb shit because you bore me with your always-predictable posts.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:24 PM
too bad he can't stick to his guns for more than a second and regresses at any hint of critcism.

he's kinda a wuss in that regard.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:29 PM
i don't have you "on ignore". but i am choosing not to pay attention to your dumb shit because you bore me with your always-predictable posts.


What part of that post was "dumb shit"? How about you handle the serious parts of it then dumbfuck. I know you're smart enough to be able to, so fucking do it.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:30 PM
he's kinda a wuss in that regard.

the revival was decided before any hint of criticism regarding the solo material.

.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:30 PM
i don't really have anything to say to you. one day you might realize that no one cares about you.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:31 PM
.

maybe so, but he's still a wuss in that regard, like i said.
wahhh, no one likes me, no one understands me, no one buys my records anymore.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:33 PM
No one likes me and no one understands me attitude created a couple of your favorite albums.


you follow someone who writes music like that and guess what its gonna come out in the dialog

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:34 PM
his wussiness serves him well when it comes to songwriting, without a doubt.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:35 PM
then you'll just have to tolerate the personality.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:36 PM
i didn't say i don't tolerate it. I was just making an observation.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:38 PM
though i agree with what mayfuck said about him sticking with something and not worrying about what others think about it. For all we know he may have expected TFE to bomb in the first place and made sure he had sp in place to cushion the blow.
on the other hand, maybe he explored the TFE sound as much as he wanted and was satisfied.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:40 PM
i don't really have anything to say to you. one day you might realize that no one cares about you.

What does this have anything to do with me. I'm calling you out on your "lets not all blame billy" bullshit. The fact is, YOU don't have a followup because you just don't. Its really as simple as that.

That last line is pretty funny. "No one cares about you". I didn't think I needed people to care about me on netphoria in order to post about the "mighty" sp. Fact is, I could give a shit what people here think about me. They can love me, hate me, ignore me or not even know about me. I don't get my feelings hurt here unlike you, adore, T&T, cigarski and so forth. Bunch of fucking babies. No wonder all of you like bill so much, he's a big fucking pussy too.

T&T
01-11-2008, 05:41 PM
SP in the 90's had mystery
and since the machina mystery... there's no where to go but down hill

That was MAXIMUM MYSTEYR people

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:41 PM
skipgo, ciGarski, T&T et al. -

so are you guys, like, going to take every thread to the even more tragic level of ruin at which you are becoming so adept lately?

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:42 PM
my feelings aren't hurt big boy. I think that's your problem, you were hoping that my feelings would get hurt. sorry to disappoint.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:43 PM
skipgo, ciGarski, T&T et al. -

so are you guys, like, going to take every thread to the even more tragic level of ruin at which you are becoming so adept lately?

it's a form of rebellion.

T&T
01-11-2008, 05:43 PM
I don't get my feelings hurt here unlike you, adore, T&T, cigarski and so forth. Bunch of fucking babies. No wonder all of you like bill so much, he's a big fucking pussy too.
Esty was thinking about me!!!!
i feel special
my feelings are fragile
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

billy showed me that being a cry baby is OK.

Shapan
01-11-2008, 05:43 PM
big boy

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:45 PM
it's a form of rebellion.


about as rebellious as becoming a Tila Tequila fan and buying all the Frito Lay products you can

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:46 PM
Esty was thinking about me!!!!
i feel special
my feelings are fragile
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

billy showed me that being a cry baby is OK.

blah blah blah dost protest too much blah blah blah








and a lot of the options in the poll are part of the same problem: billy chose his own ego over the true nature of the most important years of his life, and in doing so lost his connection to those years. when he realized this he tried to remake the connection but did it in exactly the wrong way. since then everything has been a negative feedback loop of mediocrity and lost relevance.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:47 PM
well it's all i've got while i'm sitting at my desk trying to ignore work.
i have nothing real to fight for, sadly.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:48 PM
you seem like an okay guy mariner.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:48 PM
my feelings aren't hurt big boy. I think that's your problem, you were hoping that my feelings would get hurt. sorry to disappoint.

Yet another post without you responding to the actual topic at hand. Just stop replying to me unless you have the nuts to reply to the actual topic at hand. Until then, ignore me since its becoming obvious that you're nothing but a stupid fuck incapable of listening to anything that differs from your own stupid perspective.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:50 PM
it's a form of rebellion.

You're a little too old for that shit.

Mayfuck
01-11-2008, 05:50 PM
skipgo, ciGarski, T&T et al. -

so are you guys, like, going to take every thread to the even more tragic level of ruin at which you are becoming so adept lately?

oh shut up. you were here in '99-2000. these were the kinds of posts we were making back then. they're relatively new arrivals so let them enjoy the SP forum however the hell they want

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:51 PM
well it's all i've got while i'm sitting at my desk trying to ignore work.
i have nothing real to fight for, sadly.


you could try harder to only make posts that are worthwhile in some way to read, thus improving the community in which you take refuge from your job

Elvis The Fat Years
01-11-2008, 05:51 PM
skipgo 27
ciGarski 14
i_adore_adore 11

it's good to see skipgo is still neglecting her kids.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Esty was thinking about me!!!!
i feel special
my feelings are fragile
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

billy showed me that being a cry baby is OK.

Oh, the smiley face approach. You might as well go all the way and use yellow font.

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:53 PM
oh shut up. you were here in '99-2000. these were the kinds of posts we were making back then.

if that's true, then we were also making enough posts of higher quality to balance it out


they're relatively new arrivals so let them enjoy the SP forum however the hell they want

if you don't keep the fresh meat on its toes the whole thing eventually rots








kind of like SP

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:54 PM
you could try harder to only make posts that are worthwhile in some way to read, thus improving the community in which you take refuge from your job

i make some decent ones; i make some crappy ones. Just like many other people around here. Stumpycat is probably one of the only posters I've seen who only makes worthwhile posts.
There's a very interesting "us against them" thing going on today. We sure have you guys riled up for some reason.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 05:55 PM
i still like you mariner. i will agree that your posts are usually worthwhile, from what i've seen.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:56 PM
skipgo, ciGarski, T&T et al. -

so are you guys, like, going to take every thread to the even more tragic level of ruin at which you are becoming so adept lately?

what the fuck are you talking about and what good have you done this board lately?

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Don't give yourself too much credit. You guys post way more than anyone else on this board, so its easy for you all to stand out. Its hard not to read a thread without running into the spboard all star rejects.

The only dumbfucks that have an "us against them" mentality is you people.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:57 PM
skipgo, ciGarski, T&T et al. -

so are you guys, like, going to take every thread to the even more tragic level of ruin at which you are becoming so adept lately?

i still like you mariner. i will agree that your posts are usually worthwhile, from what i've seen.

why? hes an asshole.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Don't give yourself too much credit. You guys post way more than anyone else on this board, so its easy for you all to stand out. Its hard not to read a thread without running into the spboard all star rejects.

The only dumbfucks that have an "us against them" mentality is you people.

you don't matter anymore honey, im really sorry.

Esty
01-11-2008, 05:58 PM
i still like you mariner. i will agree that your posts are usually worthwhile, from what i've seen.

An endorsment from skipgo, you must be so proud Mariner.

Mariner
01-11-2008, 05:59 PM
what the fuck are you talking about and what good have you done this board lately?


if you have to ask you're not going to know

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 05:59 PM
mariner and esty, can we keep this sp related please?

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 06:00 PM
if you have to ask you're not going to know

im curious about what you think.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 06:00 PM
why? hes an asshole.

most people here are assholes at times, i'm used to it.

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:01 PM
you don't matter anymore honey, im really sorry.

Um, I never did. I have better things to do with my life then spend 8+hrs a day on a messageboard trying to "matter". Unlike some people.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 06:02 PM
no you don't.

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:03 PM
mariner and esty, can we keep this sp related please?

I tried, but you and skipgo keep talking about "ME". I mean, if I don't matter, then don't talk about me, but about the subject at hand. However, I shoved my foot up your girlfriends ass, she has no reply, so in order for her not to look stupid she plays the whole "you don't matter " card like the dumbfuck i'm talking to now.

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:04 PM
no you don't.

Of course I don't. I make it all up to look good in front of people like "you".

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 06:04 PM
we were talking about corgan retreating after hints of criticism. you derail threads in the worst way by cutting down posters that still bite at your bait.

Mariner
01-11-2008, 06:06 PM
mariner and esty, can we keep this sp related please?

if you really were interested in this you wouldn't have made this post, or the following one.






anyway, this thread has been an illuminating glimpse into the "billy is surrounded by asslickers" possibility. after the last few pages it's obvious there might be something to that

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:07 PM
Here is my original post which contains no "cutting down". Slight hits maybe, but overall, nothing about skipgo. If shes done being a fucking princess, she can reply and get this thread back on topic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't James say in RS that he hadn't talked to billy in years when the record was about 2 months from release? About a month from the first show? How did billy ask him to come back if he hadn't talked to james at all? Oh, the ad where billy said he wanted his dreams back. That was bills way of asking. How nice. He probably had jimmy ask him since he has balls to talk shit about james behind his back and from a safe distance but not to his face. Either way, its pretty obvious asking james back (if it did infact happen) was made in a very insincere way since the man himself can't even bother doing it himsef.

I know you want to give bill the benefit of the doubt, but he's been a prick towards james/darcy since TFE, and he continues to disregard their impact on the band to this day with his bullshit "jim and I are 90% of all sp albums" nonsense. You swallow that fucking load down no questions asked, but complain about all the other bullshit with a lame excuse of "how do you really know".

We know the man enough, and heard enough about him to get a general idea. He can be kind and sweet, but it appears its only if you're sucking his dick or kissing his ass. If you don't, then you're wrong, and not him.


As far as davins hysterical "you don't get it" shit, I mean, just wow. Talk about having no brains whatsoever. Someone has been drinking too much of the koolaid.

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Here is my original post which contains no "cutting down". Slight hits maybe, but overall, nothing about skipgo. If shes done being a fucking princess, she can reply and get this thread back on topic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't James say in RS that he hadn't talked to billy in years when the record was about 2 months from release? About a month from the first show? How did billy ask him to come back if he hadn't talked to james at all? Oh, the ad where billy said he wanted his dreams back. That was bills way of asking. How nice. He probably had jimmy ask him since he has balls to talk shit about james behind his back and from a safe distance but not to his face. Either way, its pretty obvious asking james back (if it did infact happen) was made in a very insincere way since the man himself can't even bother doing it himsef.

I know you want to give bill the benefit of the doubt, but he's been a prick towards james/darcy since TFE, and he continues to disregard their impact on the band to this day with his bullshit "jim and I are 90% of all sp albums" nonsense. You swallow that fucking load down no questions asked, but complain about all the other bullshit with a lame excuse of "how do you really know".

We know the man enough, and heard enough about him to get a general idea. He can be kind and sweet, but it appears its only if you're sucking his dick or kissing his ass. If you don't, then you're wrong, and not him.


As far as davins hysterical "you don't get it" shit, I mean, just wow. Talk about having no brains whatsoever. Someone has been drinking too much of the koolaid.

:banging:

skipgo
01-11-2008, 06:23 PM
i'm not answering your post because we've beaten that dead horse before. we all know your views on the subject of whether billy contacted james and darcy. and I've already said a million times in rebuttal that you have no way of knowing what happened. Why bother repeating this ad nauseam? you seem to run on autopilot.

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:39 PM
If we've heard mine a million times, then we sure have heard your views just as many times.There is no original content left to discuss on this matter. Yet, YOU think your point of view is the only one allowed to discuss. Once again, your answer to everything that allows bill to get a free pass is "you don't know". How very fucking stupid of you. No one knows. I don't know, you don't know, so the only thing we can do is use the brains god gave us to try and come up with possible explanations for bills decisions. However, you only want to discuss your opinions that have been repeated over and over again. If thats all thats being actually talked about, then what really gets discussed. The same view point over and over again. How about for the rest of this thread, you shut the fuck up and stop replying since every opinion has already been express a million times already. Yours isn't any different. Its just as stupid as all the others. So theres nothing for your dumbass to discuss.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 06:44 PM
yeah see, you keep repeating YOUR opinion over and over, and then berate me for not wanting to share mine yet again. so when i do, you berate me for doing so. you're such a fucktard.

ps: i hope you die soon.

Esty
01-11-2008, 06:50 PM
I'll get back to you later. I'm out bitch.

DaveKShape
01-11-2008, 06:50 PM
esty's kind of got a point. i can't read threads anymore that aren't horrendously dominated by 5 or 6 people (the same 5 or 6 every time). half the time those people have nothing relevant to say, and end up steering the thread from SP related shit to personal worthlessness.

skipgo
01-11-2008, 06:55 PM
i think it would be cool if more people (like yourself) would speak up and contribute some good stuff to threads. I'm aware that I make a lot of pointless posts when I'm bored, but I also believe I make relevant and thoughtful posts when there's something interesting to talk about. I sincerely apologize for making your boarding experience suck.
I'm not kidding; I wish the lurkers would speak up more and share their feelings on the topics at hand. I too think the board shouldn't be dominated by the same handful of people, even if i do happen to be one of them.

ciGarski
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
if theres something to talk about, it'll be talked about. but how much can people say about neverlost on one tree hill? sp threads have a short lifespan regarding their topic.

and if you wanna talk about it, talk about it.

i_adore_adore
01-11-2008, 07:27 PM
Honestly guys, it's a message board. Everyone settle down.

And I love it how people believe James when he says he wasn't contacted without the slightest doubt, but when Billy said he contacted James everyone says, "LIAR!" with no evidence except James's side of the story.

not saying I know either way, but neither do you...

dustrock
01-11-2008, 07:27 PM
I picked "all of the above", because it's probably all true to a certain extent. Overproduction is a problem with almost every album these days.

The biggest issue I think is song selection. It didn't really matter than Gish, SD, and MCIS all had phenomenal songs left off of them, because they were great albums even without the songs left off.

But Adore, Zeitgeist and particularly Machina have some fantastic songs that Billy decided to leave off, and I think they suffered for it. Zwan was the same way - the first time I heard Chrysanthemum I was pretty excited, but when MSOTS was released, it was a big disappointment. Never got a Djali Zwan release, never got Chicago songs released.

I have to say that I quite enjoy Zeitgeist, particularly the b-sides.

With respect to the residency songs, I'm amongst the few that weren't particularly impressed by them. I thought they were generally quite boring, and it was obvious they were written quickly. The Rose March was pretty, but I enjoy the studio version more.

Other than song selection, the fact that half the original band is gone makes a huge difference; obviously Billy & Jimmy are the most "important" members of the band, but simply in terms of dynamics, it's never going to be the same.

There can't be many bands that have been better with non-original members in the lineup. That doesn't mean they can't be a good band anymore, but I think it's unwise to expect another Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie to ever come out of this band.

Does anyone really want another Pixies CD? Half the band wanted to, and half didn't, so they didn't. Probably a wise choice.

BuriedSoftly
01-11-2008, 09:02 PM
Im okay with the evolution of the band, im just not okay with where it has evolved too.

All the above ftw.

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 10:27 PM
i think it would be cool if more people (like yourself) would speak up and contribute some good stuff to threads. I'm aware that I make a lot of pointless posts when I'm bored, but I also believe I make relevant and thoughtful posts when there's something interesting to talk about. I sincerely apologize for making your boarding experience suck.
I'm not kidding; I wish the lurkers would speak up more and share their feelings on the topics at hand. I too think the board shouldn't be dominated by the same handful of people, even if i do happen to be one of them.

About this: I find it pretty damn entertaining to watch Esty lose his fucking mind over essentially nothing. Perhaps not keeping that sort of shit going would lessen thread domination by you know, a handful of people.

Whoever said all of the above is right in many respects. Billy could use a life coach or something...he can afford one after all. Hahah.

darcyismybass
01-11-2008, 10:28 PM
Or hire Butch Vig when he's not on tour...

Gish08
01-11-2008, 10:40 PM
His newfound spirituality. It's really lame; I wish he'd stop talking about god all the time. We get it, you trust in god, but not all of your fans do. Since Machina, every single album has at least one song with some kind of religious reference. It is really getting old, to the point where it takes a bit away from some otherwise excellent songs. For example, Bring the Light and Superchrist are great if you listen to the music. The religious message, on the other hand, is annoying and it's unfortunate that he worked it into such amazing Pumpkins songs.

Seriously... Superchrist is one of the most intense songs they've ever written since Silverfuck, and it's about christ. Fuck that.

i_adore_adore
01-12-2008, 12:56 AM
Superchrist is boring regardless of what it's about. In person it's incredible because it gets the energy going, but I can't sit through it when I'm listening to audio from live shows.

Just my opinion. God's got nothing to do with why that song isn't good.

Gossamer
01-12-2008, 12:58 AM
I voted Other.

His vocals are the only thing that is wrong with the current incarnation of the band.
They just don't sound right.

ciGarski
01-12-2008, 01:05 AM
a life coach would be bitchin.