what happened to the toms

More like whhat happened to his ability to write great fills? He plays the same fill at the end of the bar in all but two of the songs, the one where he doesn't play a standard drum beat and the one with a shuffle beat (which makes this particulaer fill I'm thinking of musically impossible).

Argh.

Jimmy has a particular style that includes many similar fills that carries throughout his whole career. It's not just on Zeitgeist. You can hear similar things with Zwan, JCC, and earlier Pumpkins. It's just a stylistic thing. I still regard him as one of the best rock drummers out there right now.

More like whhat happened to his ability to write great fills? He plays the same fill at the end of the bar in all but two of the songs, the one where he doesn't play a standard drum beat and the one with a shuffle beat (which makes this particulaer fill I'm thinking of musically impossible).

Argh.
what! :think:

i'm very tempted to make a list of the million and one great fills on Zeitgeist. might be an amusing task anyway. i could even try forwarding it to jimmy for his approval, just to make it an official document. but i don't have time to do it right now.

what happened to the toms

Surely you're not saying Zeitgeist has badly-judged production!

The fill I refer to is at the end of the bar, after the last snare hit, where he then does a one-two hit to finish that bar of music.

I know he does similar drum work throughout all hhis records, he's a huge huge influence on my own drumming so I've spent the last 9 years listening pretty carefully to what he plays. I was just reallly disappointed with the last few records 9specifically Z. and the new EP). I figured even if Billy didn't deliver (which for me he didn't) Jimmy would, but even the drumming was a bit uninspired in my book.

The fill I refer to is at the end of the bar, after the last snare hit, where he then does a one-two hit to finish that bar of music.

I know he does similar drum work throughout all hhis records, he's a huge huge influence on my own drumming so I've spent the last 9 years listening pretty carefully to what he plays. I was just reallly disappointed with the last few records 9specifically Z. and the new EP). I figured even if Billy didn't deliver (which for me he didn't) Jimmy would, but even the drumming was a bit uninspired in my book.

What did you think of the Complex album? Considering the band is his project and named after him, I'd have expected some more interesting drum work on there. Half the time it's a repetitive beat with either a really fast snare roll or a trip down the toms for a fill. I mean they're impressive once or twice but it gets old pretty fast

What did you think of the Complex album? Considering the band is his project and named after him, I'd have expected some more interesting drum work on there. Half the time it's a repetitive beat with either a really fast snare roll or a trip down the toms for a fill. I mean they're impressive once or twice but it gets old pretty fast

I almost forgot that actually,, that record totally disappointed me drumming wise (plus just generally I thought it was really boring and pointless except for *winces* loki cat). I duno why he seems to have gone flat but yeah, I think you make a good call.

I almost forgot that actually,, that record totally disappointed me drumming wise (plus just generally I thought it was really boring and pointless except for *winces* loki cat). I duno why he seems to have gone flat but yeah, I think you make a good call.

At a guess, he was trying to go for more of a songwriter angle than an 'awesome drummer kicking ass with friends' one - but in general the songwriting wasn't up to it. I think that's his problem with Billy right now too, the songwriting's weaker so the drumming isn't coming together as well. I think what Jimmy was always good at was bringing out the cool moments and dynamics of the songs, they just fit together so well - like a mesh of cool ideas. There's not so much of that all-round anymore

I definitely think that's something to consider. I hate to be one of those fans that harps on about SD but if you consider some of the amazing songs on there, Cherub, Geek, Soma, Hummer, even stuff like Mayo, all the drum work seems to compliment really fantastic guitar parts seemlessly. That stuff is just so absent from stuff on Z. Even Machina, with terrible songs like Everlasting Gaze, had some serious drum tracks on thre, but now that dynamic is just totally missing from the band, and it's really frustrating to listen to.

Heh it's weird, but before Machina came out there was an mp3 download of TEG available on the internet - I put in on my minidisc player and I was blown away by the ending. But on the actual album, I can't hear everything I could on the mp3 version, every little click of the hi-hats and so on. I wonder if it was pre-mastered or just some kind of mp3/ATRAC magic or what

Heh it's weird, but before Machina came out there was an mp3 download of TEG available on the internet - I put in on my minidisc player and I was blown away by the ending. But on the actual album, I can't hear everything I could on the mp3 version, every little click of the hi-hats and so on. I wonder if it was pre-mastered or just some kind of mp3/ATRAC magic or what

Surely you're not saying [a pumpkins record] has badly-judged production!

:)

FWIW, Modern Drummer magazine rated Zeitgeist as his best drumming record to date, with Life Begins Again at #2, followed by #3 Gish, #4 SD, #4 MCIS.

See jpg of magazine page here: http://www.mediafire.com/?bntxgozwoyo

It is interesting to listen to the different snare sounds on each Zeitgeist song. Well, somewhat interesting. Jimmy also mentioned in the Zeitgeist DVD (Best Buy exclusive edition) that the tape machine they used on Zeitgeist was the same one as MCIS, and gave Z that MCIS drum sound.

60-degree bearing edges. That's what happened to his toms. I think, at least that's what I picked up from his Modern Drummer interview.

united states is kind of one of jimmy's crowning moments, considering its a single take...
but all in all the drum work is boring and dull, just like the songs themselves.
i suppose you cant really blame jimmy because if the songs are bad, theres not much he can do about it...
on the other hand, i personally think that jimmy's part on zeitgeist being the sonic equivalent of vomit is just as significant as billy's. you can totally tell that he's lost his musical thinking and that on zeitgeist he's trying to force in a hot drum lick here and there, something that he'd never do before in such a way.
jimmy used to have the most admirable ability to write the drum part that lifts the songs and make it better - now he just plays drumbeats. think about it

Oh shut up, Jimmy's drumming probably was the best thing about Zeitgeist.

im not saying its not

As soon as Billy starts saying things like 'we wanted to rock as hard as possible and build up our fan base' I start snoring. Wake me up when they make a real fucking record.

'we wanted to rock as hard as possible and build up our fan base' = 'we tried to rock but we're too old and suck too bad for it, but at least now we're selling out to humiliate ourselves to a wider crowd than ever before'

Maybve we're the old ones. Old and cynical.

Maybve we're the old ones. Old and cynical.

nooo, not you guys

i fuckin love the snare

The Doomsday Clock intro makes up for any flaws on Zeitgeist. :banging:
Then of course you have US being 1 take.

needs more cowbell :rolleyes:

It is interesting to listen to the different snare sounds on each Zeitgeist song.

It's the Yamaha Jimmy Chamberlin Signature snare. He used it on Life Begins Again and on Zeitgeist. I love that drum. It's on my wishlist for my own kit.

what happened to the toms

clipping?

Heh it's weird, but before Machina came out there was an mp3 download of TEG available on the internet - I put in on my minidisc player and I was blown away by the ending. But on the actual album, I can't hear everything I could on the mp3 version, every little click of the hi-hats and so on. I wonder if it was pre-mastered or just some kind of mp3/ATRAC magic or what

perhaps you're thinking of the Disco Kind demo?

it sounds good, so it's good

perhaps you're thinking of the Disco Kind demo?

Yes they are easy to confuse

It is interesting to listen to the different snare sounds on each Zeitgeist song. Well, somewhat interesting. Jimmy also mentioned in the Zeitgeist DVD (Best Buy exclusive edition) that the tape machine they used on Zeitgeist was the same one as MCIS, and gave Z that MCIS drum sound.

So you have the drums themselves, choice of mics, mic placement, choice and settings of preamps, compressors and gates, EQ, effects, mixing and mastering, but really what the sound all comes down to is the tape machine. Man they're really trying to pimp that thing

Oh, now the drumming sucks too?
There's nothing wrong with his fills, Chamberlin is in top form on Zeitgeist as always.

Maybe if I were a drummer I'd be more critical, but I don't see Zeitgeist as a failure for Jimmy by any means. "Neverlost" is one of the highlights, and parts of "Ma Belle" and "Death From Above" are great. I think he did just fine.

But like I said, I'm not a drummer ;)

I AM a drummer, and I love Jimmy's work on this album.

Well i AMMMM a drummer also am I'm disappointed

well i'm A drummer too [whoop-de-do] & think the drum parts and takes are reet good, but the production on the toms in places is a little shitty, in places a ok. so there.

man you guys could not be any more wrong about life begins again.

the toms sound fine to me. he has never had a very pronounced tom sound on record. they just sound like dry, loose toms.

man you guys could not be any more wrong about life begins again

I agree with this statement.

BUT I'M NOT A DRUMMER.

But I still agree. I find everything about the album soothing and beeeeaaautiful. It puts me to sleep, but in a good way.

man you guys could not be any more wrong about life begins again.

Seconded. LBA grooves. Listed to "Owed to Daryll" and bask in JC's rollin' glory. Also, the fast rolls are his trademark. Think Jellybelly or Tonight, Tonight or Cherub Rock. It's the same kind of stuff on LBA. Also, he's still got the chops live. No question there.

the toms sound fine to me. he has never had a very pronounced tom sound on record. they just sound like dry, loose toms.
listen to the bridge of Bring the Light...it is what inspired me to make this thread...

Also, he's still got the chops live. No question there.

The only question is why some people claim they can't groove and/or rock out to Superchrist. The Dallas version owned my face -- one of my highlights of 2007 (11 shows).

listen to the bridge of Bring the Light...it is what inspired me to make this thread...


so... they are played sparingly during through the bridge? there are tons of toms in the rest of the song. i guess i don't understand what the problem is :confused:

there doesn't seem to be much proximity micing present in the zeitgeist mixes.

i don't think i understand what youre getting at either, redbull :(

FWIW, Modern Drummer magazine rated Zeitgeist as his best drumming record to date, with Life Begins Again at #2, followed by #3 Gish, #4 SD, #4 MCIS.

See jpg of magazine page here: http://www.mediafire.com/?bntxgozwoyo
that's off. how did they come up with that?

that's off. how did they come up with that?

my guess is they listened to the drumming in the context of the song- what and how he played, not just what he played

Often times, when they do rankings like that in Modern Drummer, they have the subject of the article rank them themselves. So it's very possible (probable?) that Jimmy himself made that list.

From the article:
"He doesn't believe in Pro Tools, for instance, or click tracks, or giving over control of his drum sound to engineers or producers."

Jimmy: "...I don't ask anybody how they feel about my drums. I just don't. It isn't my job to mic the things, ya know?"

"I don't pretend to play the way I did in the old band anymore. There's a lot of good things in that era, but I was still growing up and I've found out a lot of things about drumming since 1992."

that does make some kind of sense.
sd is pretty low on that list, i could sort of understand if jimmy is not too happy about his work on that record. i mean, the drums sound great, but i read numerous times that butch vig sliced the fuck out of those drum tracks and really pushed jimmy and made life hard for him (mostly by making him self concious).
i dont really know why he'd rate mcis so low , though

edit: that was before the quotes from the article were posted

From the article:
"He doesn't believe in Pro Tools, for instance, or click tracks, or giving over control of his drum sound to engineers or producers."

Jimmy: "...I don't ask anybody how they feel about my drums. I just don't. It isn't my job to mic the things, ya know?"

What does this even mean?

i don't think i understand what youre getting at either, redbull :(

theres NO resonance on them at all. it sounds like someone hitting a cardboard box.

soo you dont like loose toms

really, it just sounds like the proximity mics werent used much in the mixdown. sounds like toms from a set of overheads.

the drums on z definitely lack any of the power on previous albums. i'd agree that the drumfills aren't as inspiring as they used to be either, the intro to doomsday clock sounds so awkward to me. but united states is a different story altogether; possibly jimmy's greatest ever performance on record.

the drumming on machina is especially underrated imo. lots of power, character and vibrant production.

the drumming on machina is especially underrated imo. lots of power, character and vibrant production.

being the best concept album ever cant hurt

woah wait that "jimmy's best" is NOT a ranking. it's just a list.

gish wouldn't be that high up anyway. he's said himself that back then he was "out of control" or something like that

woah wait that "jimmy's best" is NOT a ranking. it's just a list.

If it were just a list, I would think it would be in chronological order. I've got the article right in front of me and it goes like this, top to bottom:

Zeitgeist
Life Begins Again
Gish
Siamese Dream
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
The Aeroplane Flies High
Machina
Machina II
Pisces Iscariot
Mary Star of the Sea

If it were meant to read like a list of his work or a discography, it would be been in release order, I would imagine. I therefore assume it is a ranking.

Whether it was ranked by Jimmy himself or by the writer remains undetermined.

What does this even mean?

i think that comment came after he said he doesnt use any muffling on his drums. most drummers and engineers prefer muffled drums (especially kick) as it takes bad harmonics and frequencies out of the drum- however, it sounds 'muffled' and like a disco record (really dry). it is easier to get a good drum sound out of a muffled kit, but an unmuffled kit will sound infinitely better if you spend some time with mic placement.

i think jimmy means he shows up and drums. he doesnt give a shit if you think his kit sounds good or not, it sounds how he wants it to.

Well i AMMMM a drummer also am I'm disappointed

And yet you probably can't even play 1% of what he puts out on the record. Shut up

Corgan once said that he couldn't understand people bitching about the general doomy vibe of the production on Machina II, as though people thought he'd released it and not realised how it sounded. He said the way Machina II sounded was EXACTLY how he wanted it to sound. I think the same can be said of Jimmys drum sound.

Also, the playing on an album is always somewhat more controlled than interpreting the same thing live so an arrangement will more often be simpler recorded. The Pumpkins have always kicked things up a notch playing live. I guess he wanted to both serve the songs on Z and leave himself some room to kick your butts through your skulls when you see it all come together in front of your very eyes.

The man is a God and we all know it.

The man is a God and we all know it.

This is the thing that is correct.

i think that comment came after he said he doesnt use any muffling on his drums. most drummers and engineers prefer muffled drums (especially kick) as it takes bad harmonics and frequencies out of the drum- however, it sounds 'muffled' and like a disco record (really dry). it is easier to get a good drum sound out of a muffled kit, but an unmuffled kit will sound infinitely better if you spend some time with mic placement.

i think jimmy means he shows up and drums. he doesnt give a shit if you think his kit sounds good or not, it sounds how he wants it to.

Yeah, it sounds how he wants it to in the tracking room - the sound you get on record comes down to all the studio stuff though, and if he's saying 'mic placement, whatever' then he's totally putting control in the hands of the engineers. Maybe he likes how it comes out, but it doesn't seem like he's involved with how it sounds