View Full Version : Why were The Pumpkins received so badly at Lollapalooza 94?


BurtSampson
12-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Billy always made it sound like it was the worst thing ever.

waltermcphilp
12-31-2007, 05:54 PM
didn't they replace nirvana after cobain died? maybe that was it.

ciGarski
12-31-2007, 06:16 PM
i can't remember a time they were received well.

somaziro
12-31-2007, 06:30 PM
because billy cried and was a dick alot, and they wore dresses

slunken
12-31-2007, 06:58 PM
i remember pavement was bitching about them bcos there was a rumor that bolly prevented so-and-so from playing the bill...

can't remember who (was it pavement themselves)?

reprise85
12-31-2007, 07:24 PM
cause they were better then everyone else, and wore dresses

stumpycat
12-31-2007, 11:53 PM
I know this was really only one of many reasons, but many of the bands of the day seemed to resent the ego, ambitions, musical and artistic ethos, etc. of Billy Corgan. Pavement and The Breeders, I know had a bit of a problem with them. Then rather than just trying to be "professional" about it, Billy really took that shit personally and tended to project it into his performance and onto the audience at various points along the tour.

Also, of course...Nirvana was supposed to headline the tour but had to drop out for obvious reasons.

skipgo
01-01-2008, 12:03 AM
ok, i was at one of these shows, and let me tell you, they were NOT received badly. At least not at the show I went to. It was an incredible show, and the crowd was wild, they were really into it. I think a lot of the negativity was in billy's head. It's like the guy just wanted SOMETHING to bitch about, even if he had to invent it. I remember those days well, and people loved this band back then. Billy is paranoid, disgustingly so.

wHATcOLOR
01-01-2008, 12:06 AM
ok, i was at one of these shows, and let me tell you, they were NOT received badly. At least not at the show I went to. It was an incredible show, and the crowd was wild, they were really into it. I think a lot of the negativity was in billy's head. It's like the guy just wanted SOMETHING to bitch about, even if he had to invent it. I remember those days well, and people loved this band back then. Billy is paranoid, disgustingly so.



what you perceive is who you are, as neil strauss would say

wHATcOLOR
01-01-2008, 12:06 AM
which is why i shan't be listening to American Gothic again any time soon


BURN!!!!

stumpycat
01-01-2008, 12:24 AM
ok, i was at one of these shows, and let me tell you, they were NOT received badly. At least not at the show I went to. It was an incredible show, and the crowd was wild, they were really into it. I think a lot of the negativity was in billy's head. It's like the guy just wanted SOMETHING to bitch about, even if he had to invent it. I remember those days well, and people loved this band back then. Billy is paranoid, disgustingly so.
I've read reviews and comments made about the shows on the tour...and a lot of people did seem to really enjoy the SP. But then I read about some of the crowds' behaviors at various stops throughout the tour...and it becomes apparent that some of it would indeed be perceived by Billy as "hostile," "disrespectfully inattentive," etc. (Whether it was truly meant that way or not.) I recall Billy also said he didn't at all care for the "flavor of the month revue" type mentality he believes embodies the very nature of these kind of multi-act shows. (Not exact words, but something along those lines.) Then, since it was a giant circus of an outdoor festival...well, that has its own set of issues obviously. Heat, rain, mud, stink, malfunctioning equipment. The truth is, a giant cross-country festival tour probably felt like a complete pain is the ass right after doing their own world tour and the whole experience therefore just got up Billy's arse.

P.S. The brother of the guy I went to my first Pumpkins show with (who was 9 years older than said guy, and who was acting as our taxi that night) went to the 1994 Lollapalooza show at the Starplex as well. We were listening enviously to his recount of the experience on our way there.

wHATcOLOR
01-01-2008, 01:26 AM
speaking of neil strauss, i just came across this in his book The Style Diaries:

"I'm doing it, first and foremost, to see if I can.

Rivers Cuomo, the singer of Weezer, first planted the idea in my head. He was explaining that he'd recently taken a vow of celibacy as part of a Buddhist meditation program. This meant abstaining not just from sex but also masturbation. As a result, he said, he'd never felt more energized, creative, or focused in his life.

At the time, I interpreted it less as advice than as further confirmation of his peculiarities. But a few weeks later, Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins told me he doesn't let his band have sex or orgasm on the day of a concert, so they can release all that power onstage."

deadaswarhol
01-01-2008, 01:28 AM
"power", eh? ;)

drowningspider
01-01-2008, 01:29 AM
^ "doesn't let his band"? How is this monitored?

Frankenstein
01-01-2008, 01:29 AM
speaking of neil strauss, i just came across this in his book The Style Diaries:

"he'd recently taken a vow of celibacy as part of a Buddhist meditation program. This meant abstaining not just from sex but also masturbation. As a result, he said, he'd never felt more energized, creative, or focused in his life.

please see Elton John



Billy Corgan of the Smashing Pumpkins told me he doesn't let his band have sex or orgasm on the day of a concert, so they can release all that power onstage


olde news

skipgo
01-01-2008, 01:39 AM
i haven't had sex in like, 3 days. I'm very powerful right now.

Rider
01-01-2008, 01:53 AM
ok, i was at one of these shows, and let me tell you, they were NOT received badly. At least not at the show I went to. It was an incredible show, and the crowd was wild, they were really into it. I think a lot of the negativity was in billy's head. It's like the guy just wanted SOMETHING to bitch about, even if he had to invent it. I remember those days well, and people loved this band back then. Billy is paranoid, disgustingly so.

Billys whiny ass almost caused a riot at the show I was at. And the reason they were received badly was Billy and his fucking lame I Am One rant.

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 02:01 AM
How can you hate Bill in a dress going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gim gim gim gim nothin"?

Come to think of it, that kinda says it all.

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 02:04 AM
Also, was this the show where the riot almost occured?

http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1994-08-05

It's fucking hilarious when James and Billy start antagonizing the crowd.

skipgo
01-01-2008, 02:05 AM
i liked the stupid rant; but at that time i hung on billy's every word like it was my fucking religion. I've since grown out of that.

Frankenstein
01-01-2008, 02:06 AM
How can you hate Bill in a dress going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme gim gim gim gim nothin"?

Come to think of it, that kinda says it all.

I wanna hear that.

Rider
01-01-2008, 02:07 AM
Also, was this the show where the riot almost occured?

http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1994-08-05

It's fucking hilarious when James and Billy start antagonizing the crowd.

Yep that's it, instead of just reading the crowd and moving on Billy just focused on the negative and kept making it worse.

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 02:08 AM
I wanna hear that.

It's on Vieuphoria, although he isn't in a dress there.

M.Night
01-01-2008, 02:08 AM
this thread is 14 years too late

skipgo
01-01-2008, 02:09 AM
Yep that's it, instead of just reading the crowd and moving on Billy just focused on the negative and kept making it worse.

he has a tendency to do that. He's got such a fucked up brain. Too bad his therapists never did him any good.

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 02:10 AM
he has a tendency to do that. He's got such a fucked up brain. Too bad his therapists never did him any good.

"So, I hear you've been having some problems with your band, and I was wondering, would you like to tell me about them?"

"Let me just make this analogy for you..."

Rider
01-01-2008, 02:11 AM
i liked the stupid rant; but at that time i hung on billy's every word like it was my fucking religion. I've since grown out of that.

The rant that night was the last straw in a truly shitty day of horrible events. Bad venue, hot sunny at the start then rained for an hour so we missed some acts, then freezing cold. The crowds had no tolerance for self indulgent wankery, I also had the feeling Billy made the rant even longer to antagonize the crowd. I think he was blowing shows on purpose to build some kind everyone hates us cred.

skipgo
01-01-2008, 02:11 AM
he's a duck!

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 02:14 AM
The rant that night was the last straw in a truly shitty day of horrible events. Bad venue, hot sunny at the start then rained for an hour so we missed some acts, then freezing cold. The crowds had no tolerance for self indulgent wankery, I also had the feeling Billy made the rant even longer to antagonize the crowd. I think he was blowing shows on purpose to build some kind everyone hates us cred.

Were The Beastie Boys good?

skipgo
01-01-2008, 02:27 AM
the beastie boys were awesome in dallas on that tour.
i've loved them since i first heard 'fight for your right' when i was a little kid, so it was pretty obvious i was going to enjoy them. holy shit, i was 11 or something when that album came out; how is it they've managed to stay good all of these years, and bc can't hold it together? :(

monkeyfritters
01-01-2008, 02:59 AM
when jim morrison released that power onstage he was arrested.

Rider
01-01-2008, 03:37 AM
Were The Beastie Boys good?

They were amazing.

skipgo
01-01-2008, 09:11 AM
i'd like to take back what i said at 3 am about billy not being able to hold it together. I still love his stupid band, I just don't understand what the hell he's thinking 90% of the time. But if I did understand him, maybe he wouldn't hold my interest the way he does. I'm still not in love with these new songs though...

Dr Fager
01-01-2008, 10:17 AM
i was at Lol 94 in Houston. The crowd was into it. The band also gave a pretty inspired effort which was interesting since the last time they were in Houston they cut a show short because Billy was pelted in the face with a shoe. Darcy did remark that the crowd could throw all the shit they wanted and they werent going to leave. (which of course sparked alot of people to throw shit for a few minutes)

The problem is with festivals that only a portion of the crowd gives a damn about a particular band. 50% of the crowd is there just to be at an "event" and the rest is divided up with fans of each band.

Id imagine that was Billy's issue with Loll. He wasnt playing to his core crowd and alot of their material at the time was perceived as either overly self indulgent or to grandiose. Musically though they were on point, though Billy's voice was pretty horrible (though you could hardly hear it over the music)

Overall though the show I was at was well received and got a a solid review from a critique that wasnt a big fan to begin with.

obscured1
01-01-2008, 03:07 PM
yeah, i saw them on lollapalooza '94 here in raleigh north carolina and it was amazing...

don't remember anything weird, just all my favorite sp songs at the time getting played ("soma"!!!)...

but billy's voice was indeed shot...

srt4b
01-01-2008, 03:13 PM
I was at a couple of the Detroit shows. I believe they played 3 or 4 straight days. Bill was all over local radio for bringing out a Bob Seger doll and beating it with his Guitar on stage. I never witnessed it but the were HEAVILY booooed. The croen was full of "Wiggers" for lack of a better term at the time. The entire show was a shitty buildup to the BBs.

drowningspider
01-01-2008, 03:23 PM
The band also gave a pretty inspired effort which was interesting since the last time they were in Houston they cut a show short because Billy was pelted in the face with a shoe. Darcy did remark that the crowd could throw all the shit they wanted and they werent going to leave. (which of course sparked alot of people to throw shit for a few minutes).
When I saw SP in 2000 at the Aerial Theater Billy told that story!

http://www.rspaa.org/rspaa/Live/2000-05-13%20Houston%20(Aerial%20theater)%20TX/sp%20-%20000513%2020%20-%20%28shoe%20in%20the%20face%29.mp3

It was pretty close to my favorite part of the night. Call me crazy, but I wish he still talked that much during concerts. I'm a fan of the rants.

T&T
01-01-2008, 03:26 PM
people want him to talk more, talk less, rock louder, be softer, be human, be rockstar
i guess i'm the only one that wants more mystery.

Professor Fox
01-01-2008, 04:23 PM
http://www.splra.org/wiki/images/940805-Ticket.jpg

Pain or shine.

BurtSampson
01-01-2008, 05:39 PM
In the audience's case, I guess there was pain to be had.

Revenant
01-02-2008, 11:32 AM
I would like to make 2 corrections here.

1. Nirvana were never supposed to headline teh lolla.
2. The Beastie Boys are one of the most overrated bands of the last 20 years.

skipgo
01-02-2008, 11:36 AM
wrong on both counts.
nirvana was in negotiations to headline, though they were never confirmed. It's reported that they pulled out 2 days before Kurt died.

and the beastie boys are great.

nirvana... now that band was overrated.

Rider
01-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Beastie Boys should have headlined, their show went over much better with the festival crowd. I'm not a huge BB fan but that was an amazing performance.

sweetanthony
01-02-2008, 11:57 AM
Beastie Boys haven't done anything relevant since Hello, Nasty. They haven't stayed (as) good over the years.

Rider
01-02-2008, 12:04 PM
Beastie Boys haven't done anything relevant since Hello, Nasty. They haven't stayed (as) good over the years.

Pumpkins haven't done anything relevant since Adore. They haven't stayed (as) good over the years

sweetanthony
01-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Pumpkins haven't done anything relevant since Adore. They haven't stayed (as) good over the years

Yeah. You're right. I was commenting on Skipgo's comment of why can the Beasties stay good for all these years, but BC can't keep it together. At least SP/BC is taking chances, still evolving (or devolving, whatever you choose to believe) or at least not staying the same.

What have the Beasties put out? That "back to HipHop basics"-type record, tribute to NYC in '02? Didn't they put out another instrumental record recently?

skipgo
01-02-2008, 12:19 PM
To the 5 Boroughs was released in 2004. And yeah, an instrumental album was released around the same time as Zeitgeist.
I haven't seen BB get the kind of backlash SP gets. I would take anything they put out over AG.
I'd love to hear Smashing Pumpkins sound more like themselves. That's exactly what I was thinking when listening to american gothic yesterday. I don't want them to rehash old material, but I'd like to have some sense that I'm listening to the same band that recorded Siamese Dream, MCIS, or Adore. There've been glimmers of hope (ma belle, stellar), but i think the reinvention thing has been overall a bad thing. The vocals, the production, the lyrics; this just isn't the same band I fell in love with.
I'm still hanging onto the hope that things will change, but I'm not feeling the new stuff at all.

starlightvideoproductions
01-02-2008, 12:23 PM
As far as Nirvana headlining, I actually have a Nirvana promo window cling for In Utero that says for promotion "Headlining Lollapalooza 94" so it must have been confirmed?

skipgo
01-02-2008, 12:25 PM
could have been. i definitely remember all of the talk surrounding it, so there's no doubt that they were supposed to do so at some point. I'm not sure where revenant got his information there.

sweetanthony
01-02-2008, 12:37 PM
To the 5 Boroughs was released in 2004. And yeah, an instrumental album was released around the same time as Zeitgeist.
I haven't seen BB get the kind of backlash SP gets. I would take anything they put out over AG.
I'd love to hear Smashing Pumpkins sound more like themselves. That's exactly what I was thinking when listening to american gothic yesterday. I don't want them to rehash old material, but I'd like to have some sense that I'm listening to the same band that recorded Siamese Dream, MCIS, or Adore. There've been glimmers of hope (ma belle, stellar), but i think the reinvention thing has been overall a bad thing. The vocals, the production, the lyrics; this just isn't the same band I fell in love with.
I'm still hanging onto the hope that things will change, but I'm not feeling the new stuff at all.

I hate to state the obvious, but it isn't the same band who recorded SD. It never will be again unless Jimmy starts doping, Billy starts dropping LSD, James and D'arcy get back together and get back in the band, they get Butch Vig to produce, and Billy gets Hair Club for Men....

I know what you mean though. The "heart" of SP is missing so far from the "new" band. I honestly believe that with Zeitgeist and AG, they're truly just getting their "sea legs" back. Truly getting back to feel and be the Smashing Pumpkins is going to take more than rehearsal for a year or 1 record. or even 1 tour with the new members... they started all over again. Zeitgeist was Gish. AG was Lull? I don't know it to be true, but it seems to be true in other ways of life. The next record will be the real test. If they fail to build and capture what really is Smashing Pumpkins music, the intense emotional energy, and translate it to us. Then we will know the truth.

sherm
01-02-2008, 12:39 PM
Nirvana was in talks to headline and had pretty much confirmed they would. But Kurt wanted to back out. Thats one of the reasons Courtney had him offed. He was throwing away a shit ton of $$

sweetanthony
01-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Nirvana was in talks to headline and had pretty much confirmed they would. But Kurt wanted to back out. Thats one of the reasons Courtney had him offed. He was throwing away a shit ton of $$

You know I doubt that this isn't to far from the truth. And Nirvana is a little overrated, but that doesn't mean they weren't awesome.

skipgo
01-02-2008, 12:59 PM
I hate to state the obvious, but it isn't the same band who recorded SD. It never will be again unless Jimmy starts doping, Billy starts dropping LSD, James and D'arcy get back together and get back in the band, they get Butch Vig to produce, and Billy gets Hair Club for Men....


:rofl:

yeah, your second paragraph is pretty much what i was getting at. But i get your point in the paragraph i quoted there. I know it'll never be just the same, and I don't even want or expect that. But the vibe isn't there, and that's what i miss.

sweetanthony
01-02-2008, 01:41 PM
:rofl:

yeah, your second paragraph is pretty much what i was getting at. But i get your point in the paragraph i quoted there. I know it'll never be just the same, and I don't even want or expect that. But the vibe isn't there, and that's what i miss.

Yeah, I think we all feel it as well. But sitting here listening to the Residencies Comp., I sense the feeling growing. I was wrong to believe that if only Billy and Jimmy made a record, it would be the greatest thing ever. I am putting all my chips in to the fact that the only way we ever get back to the true spirit and energy that made us love SP in first place, is if Billy loosens his grip and lets the New 3 truly become part of the band; girls sing backup, Jeff write his own solos, all 3 play on record, etc. The youthful energy and different thinking they bring is the only thing to truly "save" this band.

I can't wait for the rest of the tour to begin. It could be the start of something very, very special.

skipgo
01-02-2008, 01:47 PM
i hope you're right.

ciGarski
01-02-2008, 03:57 PM
hey im feelin kinda lazy so i havent read those paragraphs of posts, but are you guys still talking about how the band sucks now and its not really even the pumpkins?

skipgo
01-02-2008, 03:59 PM
a little bit.

ciGarski
01-02-2008, 04:00 PM
k cool, carry on.