View Full Version : Eric Avery talks about working with Billy


daevil1
12-26-2007, 02:11 PM
Eric Avery talks about how it was to audition with Corgan for the Smashing Pumpkins job. Its a pretty cool article.


http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1578544/20071226/avery_eric.jhtml

???
12-26-2007, 03:04 PM
well, good for him. i don't think its anything about billy that we didn't already know though.

Bleakest Harves
12-26-2007, 03:17 PM
So Billy's a perfectionist.

skipgo
12-26-2007, 03:37 PM
i haven't clicked that link yet, but i just want to say that I really would've liked to hear what sp might've sounded like with eric avery on the bass. *sigh* I think it could've been incredible.

???
12-26-2007, 03:38 PM
he might be a good player, but let's face it: just like the swervedriver guy, eric's too old and just doesn't fit with the pumpkins vibe. neither of them were ever going to get the job.

skipgo
12-26-2007, 03:40 PM
Avery wrote and toured with Alanis Morissette for a spell, and then trekked with Garbage during the promotion cycle for the band's 2005 LP, Bleed Like Me. He was even recruited by Billy Corgan a couple of years back to play bass for the resurrected Smashing Pumpkins. That affair lasted three weeks. "I insisted on being paid," Avery said with a hearty guffaw. "I went into [the Pumpkins] with the same mentality I took with me when I auditioned for Metallica I expected to have a good story to tell my wife. I had no expectations. I had heard nothing but bad things about working with Billy, but I went, and I found it to be a really inspiring time."

Avery never intended on surviving in music as a hired gun, but enjoyed working with Corgan because "the guy really gives a sh-- about what he does, and I sort of had allowed myself to get lazy as a musician because of ProTools. When I got around Corgan, he wanted to play the same thing 30 different ways to make sure he got it just the way he wanted it. I found that to be really inspiring.

skipgo
12-26-2007, 03:41 PM
he might be a good player, but let's face it: just like the swervedriver guy, eric's too old and just doesn't fit with the pumpkins vibe. neither of them were ever going to get the job.

i see what you're saying, and agree to some extent, but I still think it could have been really interesting to see what developed. Just thinking of that bassline for Three Days right now is giving me goosebumps. Nothing D'arcy played ever gave me goosebumps.

waltermcphilp
12-26-2007, 03:42 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/kosilar/n53501360_30602279_2050.jpg

skipgo
12-26-2007, 03:45 PM
:rofl:

???
12-26-2007, 04:08 PM
what am i missing here.

AnnMarie727
12-26-2007, 05:08 PM
BC :love:

Banana
12-26-2007, 05:13 PM
BC :love:

You should go stalk him

AnnMarie727
12-26-2007, 05:34 PM
You should go stalk him

nah. i'm too busy with my own life. plus I can love him without doing that

paranoid
12-26-2007, 05:38 PM
just like the swervedriver guy, eric's too old and just doesn't fit with the pumpkins vibe.

So are Billy and Jimmy

teh b0lly!!1
12-26-2007, 05:57 PM
So are Billy and Jimmy

nail


head









hit

themadcaplaughs
12-26-2007, 07:57 PM
I am very glad Billy did not go with a famous bass player. I feel the band went a much better route leaving Billy and Jimmy in the studio with very good and developing musicians to flesh out the band's live sound. Having a "name" bass player would have just seemed like a publicity stunt. And, as Zwan proved, even though you can get some cool songs, the band dynamic will not necessarily last.

Sonic Johnny
12-26-2007, 08:42 PM
dude.

wtf. Eric Avery is a freaking awesome bass player. This makes it look like billy turned him down for a d'arcy clone.

???
12-26-2007, 08:43 PM
dude.

wtf. Eric Avery is a freaking awesome bass player. This makes it look like billy turned him down for a d'arcy clone.

he did

loser2d
12-26-2007, 08:46 PM
I think ginger is a better bass player than darcy but darcy had a presence on stage. Plus I really likes darcy's rhythmic movements on stage.

i_adore_adore
12-26-2007, 08:52 PM
Yeah, she's totally a better base player.

Ugh. Pet peeve.

???
12-26-2007, 08:58 PM
netphoria is full of hilarious tyops tonight

???
12-26-2007, 08:59 PM
*laughts*

loser2d
12-26-2007, 09:03 PM
there fixed
sorry for that, had to do it quick, in the middle of damn college crap

???
12-26-2007, 09:08 PM
TYPO POLICE GO!

loser2d
12-26-2007, 09:09 PM
hell yeah
you guys were quick
to bad i dont have you guys as revisers

andrewface
12-26-2007, 09:31 PM
isnt this old news

DisarmDoomsday
12-26-2007, 10:09 PM
o rly?

MisterSquishyHalo
12-26-2007, 10:43 PM
dude.

wtf. Eric Avery is a freaking awesome bass player. This makes it look like billy turned him down for a d'arcy clone.


The guy said he was lazy. That should have ended the discussion right there.

slunken
12-27-2007, 12:45 AM
scroll swervedriver scroll metallica scroll thorazine scroll darcy scroll lazy scroll post

edit: scroll scroll typos

Quiet CD
12-27-2007, 02:02 AM
"I insisted on being paid," Avery said with a hearty guffaw.

Strike 1, 2 and 3.... this is why he isn't in the band.

dzhezus
12-27-2007, 04:05 AM
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=144651&highlight=avery
he didn't want to be a "pumpkin", learn those songs, renew/revive that legacy. he wanted to be a partner, as if in a supergroup. so touring and learning songs was a problem. they said he did some pre-production on the new songs and that's it.

now i'm curious about this money issue, didn't we hear that jeff/ginger/lisa didn't get paid much at all for this tour? someone even said they had to pay their own way across europe, but i doubt that. maybe billy didn't even pay avery for studio time? i'm not a pro, how's that all supposed to work, anyway?

???
12-27-2007, 09:14 AM
^yeah, i want to know about this. it must be kind of a treacherous proposition walking into the pumpkins knowing that there are gonna be all kinds of specific rules and you either follow them or get out. i'd feel pretty awkward if i were in billy's shoes, telling someone they could be in my band but i'd only pay them so much etc etc, and then try to act like i'm their best friend and that they're part of the family...oh, except that they have to pay for their own air fares, get the cheapest hotel rooms while i get the telescope master suite, don't get any creative input, have to wear any dumb costume i tell them to and like it, don't get to say much onstage or complain about anything or ask any questions. not that billy or anyone should go overboard when welcoming a new member into the fold, but however talented, charming, intelligent or whatever billy is, he's still a colossal control freak and i think that would put almost anyone off from playing with him.

i_adore_adore
12-27-2007, 05:00 PM
^^Proof? everything you just said was exaggerated. Someone who met Jeff (lapis on this board) said that Jeff told her Billy lets him play whatever he wants, unless it's a part (I'm sure you know what he means by that)

The fact that Billy is friendly with the new members while probably not paying them as much/giving them as much artistic input as Jimmy does not mean he's some heartless dictator.

???
12-27-2007, 06:18 PM
i'm just jealous.

i_adore_adore
12-27-2007, 07:24 PM
I understand.

I'm beyond jealous.

Even if Billy was the horrible person some people (not necessarily YOU) assume he is, I'd probably still give up my left leg to play guitar or bass for him. I'm a girl! I can totally be his bassist! RIGHT!?

Cherub Angel
12-28-2007, 12:07 AM
Strike 1, 2 and 3.... this is why he isn't in the band.

I too kind of want to know what he meant by this. Is it "they offered me so little that what they did offer doesn't qualify as 'getting paid'" or is it literally not getting paid?


As for the whole speculation about Ginger, Lisa, and Jeff.... I doubt any of them would put up with or would be able to put up with paying their own way across Europe and for their own hotel rooms. Odd that this is a rumor, because factoring in how much they toured and how much hotel/airfare costs it's just illogical to think they could do it.

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 03:48 PM
People are ignorant and just want more reasons to hate Billy. I'll never understand why. The dude's a moron sometimes, but seriously... why must everyone build him up to be such a terrible dictator? I don't understand...

teh b0lly!!1
12-28-2007, 04:04 PM
the fucking details dont matter, the point is, billy has completely sold out and i dont think its very probable that its merely a coincidence that avery says this shit in addition to the rumors about jeff and ginger's expenses while on tour.

the mere notion of getting three members who have no input and calling it 'smashing pumpkins' is fucking disgusting and greedy and it shows in the music, and apparently even behind the music.

and to think bill once refused huge amounts of money to protect his songs from commercial use

skipgo
12-28-2007, 04:04 PM
People are ignorant and just want more reasons to hate Billy. I'll never understand why. The dude's a moron sometimes, but seriously... why must everyone build him up to be such a terrible dictator? I don't understand...


billy brought it all on himself though. You never heard james, darcy, or jimmy complaining about the way billy acted. We first became acquainted with his "dictator" habits when HE talked about them. I doubt he's as bad as his reputation, but I can't feel sorry for the guy when he's the one who was always talking about it to begin with.

???
12-28-2007, 04:11 PM
i just watched that argument clip again that i mentioned, from graceful swans- there's only one distinguishable comment.

billy: BUT ITS NOT MY FAULT

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 04:14 PM
the mere notion of getting three members who have no input and calling it 'smashing pumpkins' is fucking disgusting and greedy and it shows in the music, and apparently even behind the music.

No input? What about the residency songs? Sure, Billy came up with the core of the song, but there were additions from each new member. Just like the original Pumpkins worked, I'd wager.

EDIT: I realize you're talking about in the studio, but still... we've no way to disprove the "I recorded SD all by myself" rumors. I'm not saying I necessarily believe them or don't, I'm just saying that we'll never know for sure.

i just watched that argument clip again that i mentioned, from graceful swans- there's only one distinguishable comment.

billy: BUT ITS NOT MY FAULT

I don't know what we're supposed to assume from that comment with no knowledge of the context...

???
12-28-2007, 04:20 PM
^nothing really, i just find it amusing to wonder what exactly "wasn't his fault"

ed: download the gracefuls swans of never/full circle documentaries if you can. the clip i'm referring to is of the band arguing in the siamese dream studio.

drowningspider
12-28-2007, 04:22 PM
^nothing really, i just find it amusing to wonder what exactly "wasn't his fault"
Maybe James was complaining about his breath or something.

skipgo
12-28-2007, 04:23 PM
there are many times, i've noticed, that fans have shaped a pretty concrete opinion about billy and have no intention of letting it be swayed for any reason. I think the truth is that we don't KNOW the truth. We hear bits and pieces, we come up with what we believe to be logical explanations and we stick with that. Billy's been made out to be a dictator who gives band members no input, and no amount of reasoning ("Hey we don't REALLY know what goes on behind closed doors") is going to change anyone's mind. I do think billy is to blame for a lot of his bad reputation because he had a really hard time keeping his mouth shut in the early days. Now he does, but I don't know if it's because he's learned from his mistakes, or just that no one cares to ask him anything anymore. Probably a little of both. But it's too little, too late. He's got the reputation, and whether it's real or fantasy, people are going to believe what they want to believe. I'm sure there's at least some truth to it, though I feel like it's exaggerated somewhat.

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 05:06 PM
ed: download the gracefuls swans of never/full circle documentaries if you can. the clip i'm referring to is of the band arguing in the siamese dream studio.

I've seen the vid.

there are many times, i've noticed, that fans have shaped a pretty concrete opinion about billy and have no intention of letting it be swayed for any reason. I think the truth is that we don't KNOW the truth. We hear bits and pieces, we come up with what we believe to be logical explanations and we stick with that. Billy's been made out to be a dictator who gives band members no input, and no amount of reasoning ("Hey we don't REALLY know what goes on behind closed doors") is going to change anyone's mind. I do think billy is to blame for a lot of his bad reputation because he had a really hard time keeping his mouth shut in the early days. Now he does, but I don't know if it's because he's learned from his mistakes, or just that no one cares to ask him anything anymore. Probably a little of both. But it's too little, too late. He's got the reputation, and whether it's real or fantasy, people are going to believe what they want to believe. I'm sure there's at least some truth to it, though I feel like it's exaggerated somewhat.

Well obviously no one here knows Billy personally. I guess I'm just saying it's turned into a kind of sport to make Billy into this awful human being. Whether he is or not isn't the point... the point is, most people DO tend to exaggerate, and it's annoying. It's not that I feel a special bond with him and have to defend him as his friend (Corgan Rules has that covered) it's just that after a while it all gets very old and overdone. It's like it's the "cool" thing to do, but really it's just obnoxious.

skipgo
12-28-2007, 05:07 PM
oh i agree with you. that's the point i was making actually, in a long, drawn out sort of way.

BurtSampson
12-28-2007, 05:12 PM
i just watched that argument clip again that i mentioned, from graceful swans- there's only one distinguishable comment.

billy: BUT ITS NOT MY FAULT

James: Bill, can't we cut Spaceboy and put Blew Away instead? It's not like your brother will get it anyway...

Billy: What do you mean?

James: Well, isn't he...you know...off?

Billy: IT'S NOT MY FAULT.

suncrashesdown
12-28-2007, 05:20 PM
LEIA: No light speed?

BILLY: IT'S NOT MY FAULT.

drowningspider
12-28-2007, 05:34 PM
^ I've been thinking of this exchange for the last 8 posts. :)

jjbjjbjjb
12-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Two guys get together to work on some music. The poorer one says to the richer one, "hey, will you pay me for this?"

Can't blame a guy for asking...but can you blame a guy for saying no?

???
12-28-2007, 06:22 PM
LEIA: No light speed?

BILLY: IT'S NOT MY FAULT.


WOW NERD #1: you are SO stupid, leeroy

leeroy jenkins: ITS NOT MY FAULT

The Omega Concern
12-28-2007, 06:48 PM
teh Bolly is right on.

What's been even more disturbing however is that I've observed Billy Corgan being a coward, time and again. Until proven otherwise, like getting James and Darcy back in the fold or something even more bold, this man I once thought so much of has been reduced in my eyes because of his treatment of others as guinea pigs.

I haven't even really bothered with his music of late because it's tough to be attracted to someone you have good reason to have lost respect for...but I digress.

The Smashing Pumpkins are passe'. sad but true.


and what's difficult for me personally on this matter is the guy had alot to do with inspiring me to do music, so seeing things play out in the manner they have has been confusing and disheartening at times. but life goes on...

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 09:21 PM
FIRST of all, do you REALLY think James and D'arcy want to come back? I'm not asking you if you believe Billy went about inviting them in a mature way, because we don't know how it all went down. But honestly, do ya think James and D'arcy would come back even if Billy begged them?

Maybe they would. Again, no one really knows. But really, I don't think so. James, maybe. D'arcy, highly doubt it.

Not that I'm trying to make you change your mind. It's obvious you aren't the only one who feels this way, and I've noticed that it's always the "older" fans who were around when the Pumpkins were at their peak who have such an issue with this "reunion" and everything that has gone along with it. And since I was nine when they split, I can't say I ever completely understood the spirit of the band the first time around. So in turn I'll never understand all the politics behind people's mindsets on this reunion.

But as someone who's only been a fan for four years, I can bask in the music that I genuinely enjoy, the bootleg of my first Pumpkins concert, and the new "guinea pigs" that contributed to the residency songs, which (as I've said a bajillion times) are as a whole better than Zeitgeist.

That was a long, stupid post. Where's cigarski? He usually keeps me under control.

skipgo
12-28-2007, 09:24 PM
it's like i said, adore; these people have made up their minds about how they <b>think</b> billy operates, and no amount of talking from other fans, or even from billy himself, is going to change their minds. I say, it's their loss.

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 09:27 PM
True. Very true.

I thought of you the other day! I was looking at CDs at Barnes and Noble, and these obnoxious 13-year-old girls who talked a lot were like, "PRINCE! OMG I'M GETTING THIS! Oh wait I already have it LOL"

And immediately your little avatar popped into my head. Funny stuff.

T&T
12-28-2007, 09:36 PM
knowing the way Billy & Jimmy holed themselves up for 2 years working on Zeitgeist stuff (pre zeitgeist stuff)
I'd assume that at some point Avery was invited to join them and stayed at that house
billy probably covered all expenses, bed, booze, healthy eating
two weeks to "play things out, test the chemistry" is not a "lot" of time
who knew where it was going to lead... the band may have even expected Avery to have tons to contribute... maybe he didn't
Avery clearly had a good time by the interview
it would have been dumb for the band to establish "pro payment" before testing the goods
if he was "barely" paid its probably because his contributions weren't going to be used
and he was given a "small sum" out of respect
i don't see what all the fuss is about

billy and jimmy are the meat and potatoes
the rest is just spice
they could use some vegetables for sure.

MisterSquishyHalo
12-28-2007, 10:14 PM
but life goes on...


Thank goodness you have moved past it.

MisterSquishyHalo
12-28-2007, 10:16 PM
the fucking details dont matter, the point is, billy has completely sold out

translation= I have no facts, but the story is good, so I am running with it!

i_adore_adore
12-28-2007, 11:48 PM
no no no, I'm pretty sure teh b0lly is referring to the multiple releases and TTW being in that ford commercial.

Yeah, Billy sold out. Boo hoo.

Frankenstein
12-28-2007, 11:51 PM
yeah, I hate musicians that actually sell albums and make money. damn them

skipgo
12-29-2007, 08:41 AM
True. Very true.

I thought of you the other day! I was looking at CDs at Barnes and Noble, and these obnoxious 13-year-old girls who talked a lot were like, "PRINCE! OMG I'M GETTING THIS! Oh wait I already have it LOL"

And immediately your little avatar popped into my head. Funny stuff.


:D
I'm happy to know that hearing the name prince makes someone think of me :)

MisterSquishyHalo
12-29-2007, 09:24 AM
:D
I'm happy to know that hearing the name prince makes someone think of me :)


Prince is full of the suck and aids, after the way he started to dick around his online fans.

skipgo
12-29-2007, 11:29 AM
the suck and the aids, eh?

hey i just went to walmart so my kid could spend some of her Christmas money, and thought of bja when i saw a movie about ruby bridges. Netphoria is all over the place.

ciGarski
12-29-2007, 01:08 PM
wasn't chamberlin in charge of the auditions?

darcyismybass
12-29-2007, 05:16 PM
wasn't chamberlin in charge of the auditions?

I'd guess that the Avery thing happened prior to recording. Jimmy was auditioning people while Billy was finishing everything up.

wilch
12-29-2007, 05:25 PM
aw man he should have stayed it would have been orgasmic. No offense but chicks just dont cut it for amazing bass playing, you need testosterone.

i_adore_adore
12-29-2007, 05:44 PM
EXCUSE ME!?

can someone please slit this guy's throat for me? ^^

darcyismybass
12-29-2007, 11:41 PM
aw man he should have stayed it would have been orgasmic. No offense but chicks just dont cut it for amazing bass playing, you need testosterone.

^^ This guy needs to watch a video of Tal Wilkenfeld.

wilch
12-30-2007, 05:13 AM
name one girl bassist in a famous(ish) band who actually has an fresh, interesting sound? I'm not trying to be sexist here.

And SP has a bad trackrecord...

D'arcy, ginger, and Melissa - okay no comment, any interesting baselines were Billy's anyway.

Avery came up with his own base parts in Jane's Addiction and they were melodic and exotic and all that other shit.

wilch
12-30-2007, 05:13 AM
and who says im a guy???

skipgo
12-30-2007, 05:22 AM
your comment about girls wanting a guy with muscles means your must be a guy.

wilch
12-30-2007, 05:28 AM
Or im a girl who likes men with muscles? think about it...

skipgo
12-30-2007, 05:46 AM
nah, you just generalized the entire population of women with that comment. I don't buy that you're a girl. but whatever, i don't care. The real question is, why am i on netphoria at 4:30 in the morning.

darthjul
12-30-2007, 08:32 AM
Does anybody have even a reasonable estimate as to what monetary compensation Jeff, Lisa and Ginger would be getting for touring? Put me and my gear on an aeroplane to anywhere in the world, 3 squares and a roof over my head and let me play music I adore with Jim and Bill and thats payment enough. I'd dare anybody posting on these forums to turn down a shot like that.

skipgo
12-30-2007, 09:36 AM
agreed darthjul.

though i'd turn it down, because i'd be paralyzed with fear if standing on a stage with billy and jimmy.

i_adore_adore
12-30-2007, 02:44 PM
^^Haven't you seen the Paris show vids, skipgo? They were paralyzed.

Luckily, the n00bs have loosened up over the months.

name one girl bassist in a famous(ish) band who actually has an fresh, interesting sound? I'm not trying to be sexist here.

And SP has a bad trackrecord...

D'arcy, ginger, and Melissa - okay no comment, any interesting baselines were Billy's anyway.

Avery came up with his own base parts in Jane's Addiction and they were melodic and exotic and all that other shit.

KSDJFKLDJSFKSDL

Why do they have to be famous? I'm sure some of the most talented ANYTHING-players don't get famous. And have you heard Melissa's solo album? I'm not saying she's a freakin' genius or anything, but her bass lines are more interesting than I'd say 70% or 80% of any SP bass lines that I've heard, and that's with ONE album.

Paz is one incredible bassist. You should check out The Entrance Band. Not saying they're necessarily my type of music, but I respect talent when I see it.

And no intelligent girl would ever say "Girls can't be good bassists because they don't have testosterone." So please don't act like an idiot.

For as many bad female bassists that you can name off, I'm sure I could come up with just as many bad male bassists. It has nothing to do with sex or testosterone levels. It has to do with how bad you want to be good at something. Just because there aren't as many famous female bassists coming up with revolutionary work doesn't mean it's because they CAN'T.

Ugh. You. Are. Frustrating.

wilch
12-30-2007, 03:17 PM
um...

SP's bassist was D'arcy and from what i can tell she is in fact a woman...

BABY_i
12-30-2007, 04:08 PM
name one girl bassist in a famous(ish) band who actually has an fresh, interesting sound? I'm not trying to be sexist here.

And SP has a bad trackrecord...

D'arcy, ginger, and Melissa - okay no comment, any interesting baselines were Billy's anyway.

Avery came up with his own base parts in Jane's Addiction and they were melodic and exotic and all that other shit.

Kim Deal
Kim Gordon

i_adore_adore
12-30-2007, 05:39 PM
SP's bassist was D'arcy and from what i can tell she is in fact a woman...

What are you talking about? How does that have anything to do with what I just said? Billy wrote all her bass parts, and he is in fact a man, and SP's bass parts are MORE OR LESS pretty boring. I admit there are a exceptions, but FOR THE MOST PART they're nothing to get excited about.

EDIT: and please stop saying "base" instead of "bass." I know you can do it. I have faith.

AnnMarie727
12-30-2007, 06:00 PM
i liked Darcy the best for their bass player, of course. but i like Ginger too.

The Omega Concern
12-30-2007, 06:33 PM
originally posted by Mister Squishy Halo:

Thank goodness you have moved past it.

oh, but Mister Squishy, that's what rants on netphoria are for...


I don't come to the opinion that I find Billy rather cowardly lightly. It has little or nothing to do with his music and what he's done with his band, The Smashing Pumpkins. Im not necessarly implying he's treated any of his bandmates as guinea pigs.

As an adept, and a Pisces at that, there's little motivation for him to have worldly concerns. Which is fine actually and his choice. That's not why I think he's been gutless at times.

He's immature...still. He doesn't act like a man. He needs to get over himself and understand his mistakes perpetuate his denial because he doesn't face them and therefore become aware of them, ergo, repeating them.

To the topic, had he chosen Avery and another spiritual equal, let's say, I believe the band would be much stronger for it. Im sure they play just fine but in the grand scope of things he playing it safe over being bold. A compromise he shouldn't have to make unless you forget what the spirit of Rock n Roll really is.

loser2d
12-30-2007, 06:45 PM
knowing the way Billy & Jimmy holed themselves up for 2 years working on Zeitgeist stuff (pre zeitgeist stuff)
I'd assume that at some point Avery was invited to join them and stayed at that house
billy probably covered all expenses, bed, booze, healthy eating
two weeks to "play things out, test the chemistry" is not a "lot" of time
who knew where it was going to lead... the band may have even expected Avery to have tons to contribute... maybe he didn't
Avery clearly had a good time by the interview
it would have been dumb for the band to establish "pro payment" before testing the goods
if he was "barely" paid its probably because his contributions weren't going to be used
and he was given a "small sum" out of respect
i don't see what all the fuss is about

billy and jimmy are the meat and potatoes
the rest is just spice
they could use some vegetables for sure.

I think Lisa is the vegetables.

ciGarski
12-30-2007, 06:47 PM
girls suk

T&T
12-30-2007, 06:52 PM
oh, but Mister Squishy, that's what rants on netphoria are for...


I don't come to the opinion that I find Billy rather cowardly lightly. It has little or nothing to do with his music and what he's done with his band, The Smashing Pumpkins. Im not necessarly implying he's treated any of his bandmates as guinea pigs.

As an adept, and a Pisces at that, there's little motivation for him to have worldly concerns. Which is fine actually and his choice. That's not why I think he's been gutless at times.

He's immature...still. He doesn't act like a man. He needs to get over himself and understand his mistakes perpetuate his denial because he doesn't face them and therefore become aware of them, ergo, repeating them.

To the topic, had he chosen Avery and another spiritual equal, let's say, I believe the band would be much stronger for it. Im sure they play just fine but in the grand scope of things he playing it safe over being bold. A compromise he shouldn't have to make unless you forget what the spirit of Rock n Roll really is.your rants are embarrassing to read
judging someone you don't even know :cry: :cry:
wasn't bring SP back a bold move worth its own merit? :think:

i_adore_adore
12-30-2007, 07:40 PM
girls suk

:love:

your rants are embarrassing to read
judging someone you don't even know

My thoughts exactly. Throughout his entire analysis of Billy Corgan I wasn't sure whether I wanted to laugh or cry. Or shoot myself.

themadcaplaughs
12-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Not that I'm trying to make you change your mind. It's obvious you aren't the only one who feels this way, and I've noticed that it's always the "older" fans who were around when the Pumpkins were at their peak who have such an issue with this "reunion" and everything that has gone along with it. And since I was nine when they split, I can't say I ever completely understood the spirit of the band the first time around. So in turn I'll never understand all the politics behind people's mindsets on this reunion.

I am in the same situation as you. I was 10 when the Smashing Pumpkins played the final Metro Show, and while I can understand why people want the original lineup, it is time to move on. As you also pointed out, I doubt any of the other members want to come. In James' public statement, he was much more interested talking about his record label and his new album than Smashing Pumpkins; I think we can assume D'arcy wanted nothing to do with the reunion. Why get all the original members back if half of them are not even into it? Instead, we get a band that brings the spirit of The Smashing Pumpkins by combining the heart of the band with new members that really add a lot.

As for the Bill being a dictator thing, no one here knows. None of use were at any of the recording sessions for Gish or Siamese Dream. Did Billy probably record some of his band members' parts? Probably. Still, when two of the songs on Siamese Dream have a co-writing credit with James Iha, you have to wonder how big a dictator Billy is. D'arcy even admits that if Billy had not taken charge the way he did, Siamese Dream would not exist.

A fact that many have overlooked is that Eric Avery is fast to point out that his original notions of Billy were false. He said the man was an "inspiration" to work with.

skipgo
12-30-2007, 10:35 PM
yeah, no one here wants to be caught dead saying something positive about the guy, you know, so it's easy for them to leave out the good stuff EA said about him.

stephen_bayne
12-30-2007, 10:56 PM
I became a fan of The Pumpkins between Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and I'm fine with James and D'Arcy not being the new line up. I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't be happy with thier favourite band still being around if the creative force behind the band is still there.

i_adore_adore
12-30-2007, 11:19 PM
BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME BILLY'S A SELL-OUT!!!!111!!!!

:rolleyes:

darcyismybass
12-30-2007, 11:48 PM
BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME BILLY'S A SELL-OUT!!!!111!!!!

:rolleyes:

That he and Jimmy think of the Pumpkins as a "brand" disturbs me...it's also pretty fucking sad.

darcyismybass
12-30-2007, 11:51 PM
What are you talking about? How does that have anything to do with what I just said? Billy wrote all her bass parts, and he is in fact a man, and SP's bass parts are MORE OR LESS pretty boring. I admit there are a exceptions, but FOR THE MOST PART they're nothing to get excited about.

EDIT: and please stop saying "base" instead of "bass." I know you can do it. I have faith.

The boredom you experience while listening to SP bass parts is then in turn Billy's fault. Why blame D'arcy for this mediocrity when two-thirds of it wasn't even in her hands? Bear in mind, MCIS and Adore (and most of Machina) were all hers, and who here can say that anything she came up with for at least the first two was remotely bad? It was quite fitting to me...sure she wasn't the greatest player in the world, but at least she got the job done.

i_adore_adore
12-31-2007, 12:02 AM
That he and Jimmy think of the Pumpkins as a "brand" disturbs me...it's also pretty fucking sad.

Well, it is a brand. It's a name. I'm sure if you look up "brand" in a thesaurus, "name" will show up. Besides, I think you're disregarding the multiple times that the two have referred to the Pumpkins as more of a state of mind than a name. I think what they're getting at when they say it's a brand is that it's a name people recognize, but to THEM it's much more than that.

The boredom you experience while listening to SP bass parts is then in turn Billy's fault. Why blame D'arcy for this mediocrity when two-thirds of it wasn't even in her hands? Bear in mind, MCIS and Adore (and most of Machina) were all hers, and who here can say that anything she came up with for at least the first two was remotely bad? It was quite fitting to me...sure she wasn't the greatest player in the world, but at least she got the job done.

I never said anything bad about D'arcy. I'm here arguing with this idiot who thinks you have to be a man to be a good bassist. He pointed out that D'arcy, Melissa, and Ginger are more or less boring, un-revolutionary players. In response, I said that Billy came up with the bass parts for the Pumpkins, and while that is, I admit, speculation because I wasn't in the studio, I still don't doubt it for a second. I assume since D'arcy got writing cred on "Daughter" and no other SP song, she didn't add much to the bass parts in SP. Like I said, it's speculation because I wasn't there, but I still believe it.

I've said many times that D'arcy did fine as a bassist. I've yet to see any evidence of her screwing up considerably at a live show. I think all this "D'arcy is a sucky bassist" stuff got started a long time ago and just blew out of proportion. I don't think she's great, but like you said, she got the job done.

Corganist
12-31-2007, 12:10 AM
I've yet to see any evidence of her screwing up considerably at a live show.

Listen to the 10-05-1988 Metro show (CR-05). You won't have to wait long. She screws up about 3 seconds into the first song.

Granted, that was very early in the band's history, and I'm in no way suggesting that her entire bass playing career should be judged on one club show in 1988. I think D'arcy was a perfectly capable bass player for the most part, but that doesn't mean she didn't mess up from time to time.

i_adore_adore
12-31-2007, 12:14 AM
but that doesn't mean she didn't mess up from time to time.

Well, sure, but who doesn't from time to time? Billy screws lyrics up, he messed up "Doomsday Clock" noticably at some show (can't be bothered to figure out which), etc. Jimmy screws up set lists :D But seriously... she's not a genius, but she's not a total disaster, either.

That post wasn't necessarily directed at YOU. I'm just rambling...

darcyismybass
12-31-2007, 12:42 AM
Well, sure, but who doesn't from time to time? Billy screws lyrics up, he messed up "Doomsday Clock" noticably at some show (can't be bothered to figure out which), etc. Jimmy screws up set lists :D But seriously... she's not a genius, but she's not a total disaster, either.

That post wasn't necessarily directed at YOU. I'm just rambling...

Hell, even Melissa screwed up on the last tour. At the "last" show she played a bum note during SIYL and Billy made fun of her for it...haha.

Cherub Angel
12-31-2007, 01:13 AM
I agree with the notion that Corgan brought a lot of scrutiny on himself...no question there, but I also think Iha and D'arcy have been cast in the role of victims far too hastily. I guess I'm addressing the "What! Corgan sold out! He couldn't get the band back together thing! He's been bad to his band members!"

Well, for one...he can't really control people. People criticize him for not reeling James and D'arcy back into the band....isn't this the thing we're criticizing him for? Being a dictator? Did we expect him to go "you must be in this band or else!" Come on, D'arcy and Iha made their own decisions about this. Move on. They're not into it anymore....with that fact in mind, thank God they're not in this band. It would have really sucked. We know what it's like live when band members are not "into it" (i.e. Machina tour).

That brings me to another point. Corgan has a well known rep of being a dictator in the studio...as many have said, there has been no evidence to the contrary. Siamese Dream and Gish were a 90% Corgan-Chamberlin effort (according to Butch Vig). Who knows about the others. Yet throughout this domination in the studio, James and D'arcy were still there. They stayed in the band and took the money and went on tour despite being basically overdubbed and directed to in the studio. They could have left the band if they really didn't agree with the situation. However, they didn't. While Corgan being dominant isn't something I completely agree with if I was working in the band, obviously Iha and D'arcy COULDN'T HAVE MINDED THAT MUCH IF THEY TOOK A PAYCHECK FOR OVER TEN YEARS. I don't feel too sorry for them.

loser2d
12-31-2007, 01:34 AM
do Iha and D'arcy get any royalties for anything?

ciGarski
12-31-2007, 02:55 AM
thats a stupid question.

loser2d
12-31-2007, 02:57 AM
well excuse my ignorance

wilch
12-31-2007, 04:58 AM
i clearly hit a sore spot...

I'm not saying women cannot play bass im saying as a general rule there are many more men who reach extreme awesomeness levels of bass playing and any other type of instrument playing than women. Its just human nature... There are more male geniuses and more male retards, women tend to be less extreme, they are very good or bad, while men are amazing or useless... You get my point????? Don't take it personally ive heard your guitar playing and its ten times better than mine so it doent mean all men are better than women.

T&T
12-31-2007, 05:43 AM
i clearly hit a sore spot...

I'm not saying women cannot play bass im saying as a general rule there are many more men who reach extreme awesomeness levels of bass playing and any other type of instrument playing than women. Its just human nature... There are more male geniuses and more male retards, women tend to be less extreme, they are very good or bad, while men are amazing or useless... You get my point????? Don't take it personally ive heard your guitar playing and its ten times better than mine so it doent mean all men are better than women.:rolleyes:
it's not about sore spots, it's about ignorant human nature.
but don't worry, one day you'll realize that living by stereotypes is a greater disadvantage to you, and not the people you're making the generalizations of.
it is human nature to categorize and simplify things, so don't take your shortcomings personally
at least you weren't born completely retarded right?

teh b0lly!!1
12-31-2007, 07:33 AM
^ who the fuck do you think you are?
instead of making cheap shots at demagogary relate to the facts.
is it, or is it not, true that there are countless males that reach extreme musical proficiency
on the vast majority of intruments out there?
isnt it true that while women do so as well, there are WAY less women than men to excel in those categories?

what that implies of humanity, we're not to say, and it's not a thumb rule,
but it does have some truth behind it and by avoiding it completely you also subside to some sort of generalization.
so shut the fuck up

skipgo
12-31-2007, 08:34 AM
for whatever reason, less women pick up guitar, bass, and especially drums to begin with. So the ratio of men playing music to women playing music being so high, of course more men are going to be considered "great". It's mathematical, people! :) It doesn't say anything about women's ability to be great; there just aren't as many of them doing it. As the only girl in many bands over the years, I can personally attest to this fact.
oh and wilch, i knew you were a guy. :D

caroline
12-31-2007, 10:23 AM
for whatever reason, less women pick up guitar, bass, and especially drums to begin with. So the ratio of men playing music to women playing music being so high, of course more men are going to be considered "great". It's mathematical, people! :) It doesn't say anything about women's ability to be great; there just aren't as many of them doing it. As the only girl in many bands over the years, I can personally attest to this fact.
oh and wilch, i knew you were a guy. :D
Thank you Skipgo for bringing some logic. Rock music is a heavily male-dominated field so also think about all the men who play bass (or any instrument) non-spectacularly. I bet the ratio of good vs. average musicians is the same for both genders. The women in the biz just get more scrutiny.

Why is there an assumption that D'arcy was a bad bassist? Do you think Billy would have kept her around that long if she was so sucky? In the live performances I've seen on video, she seems just fine and is holding her own. Also, to the people who think basslines have to be thrilling a la Primus need to get over it. The bass is largely a rhythm instrument/support and although it's not a showy instrument, you can definitely tell when it's not there. Songs lack depth without it and they suck without bass. As MaDm put it, it's the glue between the drums and guitar. I guess I'm biased since I'm a bass player. :D

wilch
12-31-2007, 11:00 AM
^ who the fuck do you think you are?
instead of making cheap shots at demagogary relate to the facts.
is it, or is it not, true that there are countless males that reach extreme musical proficiency
on the vast majority of intruments out there?
isnt it true that while women do so as well, there are WAY less women than men to excel in those categories?

what that implies of humanity, we're not to say, and it's not a thumb rule,
but it does have some truth behind it and by avoiding it completely you also subside to some sort of generalization.
so shut the fuck up

thankyou! finally some back up...

its all about science guys you cant refute it

T&T
12-31-2007, 11:35 AM
at least you weren't born completely retarded right?i guess i was wrong...

skipgo
12-31-2007, 11:59 AM
thankyou! finally some back up...

its all about science guys you cant refute it

it's math and i do refute it. thank you and goodnight.

edited to add: I can understand that men are better at some things than women. Anything requiring brute force would probably be better suited to a man, obviously. However, being good at an instrument has nothing to do with testosterone, strength, or having a penis. There's nothing scientific about this, and unless you actually happen to BE a scientist, or happen to have read this is some well respected scientific journal, then quite clearly you have no basis in FACT, and nothing to back up your claims other than your made-up rhetoric. What is a fact though, is what I said earlier, about how there are simply less women playing rock music than men, so obviously there will be more great male rock musicians than female, just as there are more crappy male rock musicians than crappy women rock musicians. This is much more logical that your flawed "science".

tcm
12-31-2007, 01:45 PM
I'm not saying women cannot play bass
well...
No offense but chicks just dont cut it for amazing bass playing, you need testosterone.

cork_soaker
12-31-2007, 02:14 PM
maybe he thinks chicks and women are different, and that women have more testosterone than chicks

cork_soaker
12-31-2007, 02:17 PM
being good at an instrument has nothing to do with having a penis.
self-taught skin flutist here har har har

cork_soaker
12-31-2007, 02:22 PM
women tend to be less extreme, they are very good or bad, while men are amazing or useless... You get my point?????

yes, i am xtreem to the maxx

ciGarski
12-31-2007, 02:30 PM
i could be an amazing mountain climber if i wanted to. im just not going to. but from now on i want everyone to acknowledge my potential to be an amazing mountain climber.

skipgo
12-31-2007, 02:42 PM
what's your point, mountain man?

ciGarski
12-31-2007, 02:49 PM
women have smaller brains. its science.

http://www.big13.net/Achorman%20photos/Burgandy.jpeg

somaziro
12-31-2007, 03:32 PM
i clearly hit a sore spot...

I'm not saying women cannot play bass im saying as a general rule there are many more men who reach extreme awesomeness levels of bass playing and any other type of instrument playing than women. Its just human nature... There are more male geniuses and more male retards, women tend to be less extreme, they are very good or bad, while men are amazing or useless... You get my point????? Don't take it personally ive heard your guitar playing and its ten times better than mine so it doent mean all men are better than women.

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bbJnwk3GBiM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bbJnwk3GBiM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

STFU

skipgo
12-31-2007, 03:34 PM
You look like a blueberry.

wilch
12-31-2007, 06:21 PM
the key word there was "amazing". People here take things too literally. Who cares what my opinion is? I sure as hell dont care about yours so why bother arguing?

i_adore_adore
12-31-2007, 06:55 PM
If someone tells you that the world is flat, you'd correct them, wouldn't you?

ciGarski
12-31-2007, 07:15 PM
If someone tells you that the world is flat, you'd correct them, wouldn't you?

or would you bother? would really really use your time to explain otherwise? that in its self makes you almost as dumb.


"the world is flat, yo"

"NO ITS NOT YOU FUCKER"

tcm
12-31-2007, 07:37 PM
the key word there was "amazing". People here take things too literally. Who cares what my opinion is? I sure as hell dont care about yours so why bother arguing?
but "i'm not saying women cannot play bass, just not amazingly" is still dumb.

i was really responding more to teh b0lly!!1 or anyone who might almost mistake you as defensible here than i was to you. while it's true that there are currently significantly fewer female instrumentalists of note in popular music, and it doesn't help to ignore that fact or pretend otherwise, we also should not overlook the idiocy of jumping to ridiculous conclusions about "human nature".

so don't even ack like you're just pointing at numbers like you're just the messenger, you can't fool anyone here with that jive.

wilch
01-01-2008, 07:00 AM
Okay of you people are so sure that I am wrong why not look it up? It'll come as a shock. Just remember the Wilch is always right even when he's wrong

tcm
01-01-2008, 07:03 AM
well i don't want to be shocked. i hate shocks. i never wear socks. that's why.

teh b0lly!!1
01-01-2008, 08:21 AM
i hate shocks but i love cocks
is that wrong?

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 01:38 PM
or would you bother? would really really use your time to explain otherwise? that in its self makes you almost as dumb.


"the world is flat, yo"

"NO ITS NOT YOU FUCKER"

That's hardly how it went down, cigarski.

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:17 PM
dude said chicks couldn't be amazing bassists or something and a bunch of people ganged up on him to say "yes they can be".


and i don't remember saying you could leave your room, jessica. this is your last warning.

waltermcphilp
01-01-2008, 03:21 PM
:apopcorn:

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 03:21 PM
Yes, but I wouldn't say we um... yelled at him. I'm sure I used caps now and then, but it was more for emphasis than to "raise my voice." I think your analogy SUX.

And I'm sorry. You're right. :(

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:25 PM
EXCUSE ME!?

can someone please slit this guy's throat for me? ^^




KSDJFKLDJSFKSDL

Why do they have to be famous? I'm sure some of the most talented ANYTHING-players don't get famous. And have you heard Melissa's solo album? I'm not saying she's a freakin' genius or anything, but her bass lines are more interesting than I'd say 70% or 80% of any SP bass lines that I've heard, and that's with ONE album.


And no intelligent girl would ever say "Girls can't be good bassists because they don't have testosterone." So please don't act like an idiot.

For as many bad female bassists that you can name off, I'm sure I could come up with just as many bad male bassists. It has nothing to do with sex or testosterone levels. It has to do with how bad you want to be good at something. Just because there aren't as many famous female bassists coming up with revolutionary work doesn't mean it's because they CAN'T.

Ugh. You. Are. Frustrating.

What are you talking about? How does that have anything to do with what I just said? Billy wrote all her bass parts, and he is in fact a man, and SP's bass parts are MORE OR LESS pretty boring. I admit there are a exceptions, but FOR THE MOST PART they're nothing to get excited about.

EDIT: and please stop saying "base" instead of "bass." I know you can do it. I have faith.

:noway:

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:28 PM
point being, you spent a good amount of effort here imploring this guy's claim that girls can't play bass or whatever. if anything this reveals your insecurity regarding the matter. next time don't give posts like that the time of day. take the high road.

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:29 PM
:apopcorn:

go to your room too. or jessica's.


:apopcorn:

chris hansen
01-01-2008, 03:30 PM
:noway:

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:32 PM
fuck you hansen i'll eat you for breakfast

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:32 PM
you judgmental motherfucker

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 03:34 PM
point being, you spent a good amount of effort here imploring this guy's claim that girls can't play bass or whatever. if anything this reveals your insecurity regarding the matter. next time don't give posts like that the time of day. take the high road.

That's not the kind of person I am. It's not about insecurity, it's about feeling sorry for the people who actually believe this stuff, and I can't deal with just ignoring it.

I'm a teenager, cigarski. I know everything.

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:37 PM
im not saying its about insecurity but it certainly looks like it when you give an asshole like that the time of day.

im a mountain climber, i know way more.

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 03:38 PM
Are you really a mountain climber?

I went fake rock-climbing once when I was little. I couldn't get to the top :(

hnibos
01-01-2008, 03:40 PM
stop being a tool, cigarski

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:42 PM
who are you again?

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Are you really a mountain climber?

I went fake rock-climbing once when I was little. I couldn't get to the top :(

no but i could be. isn't that the point?

hnibos
01-01-2008, 03:44 PM
who are you again?

ho ho ho, talk about insecurity

duovamp
01-01-2008, 03:46 PM
lol women can't play instruments.

Or drive carz.

Or read.

chris hansen
01-01-2008, 04:10 PM
fuck you hansen i'll eat you for breakfast

that sounds suspicious, but delicious

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 04:58 PM
your ass is grass hansen. and im a lawnmower.

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 06:05 PM
no but i could be. isn't that the point?

Um. Yes?

I think I'm gonna go back to my room.

ciGarski
01-01-2008, 07:41 PM
ok. ill be there in a bit. i gotta clean up waltermcphilip's room before he gets back.

waltermcphilp
01-01-2008, 08:10 PM
:rockon:

skipgo
01-01-2008, 08:23 PM
lol women can't play instruments.

Or drive carz.

Or read.

i'd reply to this in anger if i knew what it said.

i_adore_adore
01-01-2008, 08:24 PM
:rofl:

i adore skipgo