View Full Version : The Divine Invasion


i_adore_adore
12-23-2007, 03:50 PM
It's already been mentioned that Mellon Collie was inspired partly by VALIS by Philip K. Dick (INCREDIBLE book, if you were wondering...), and just today I started reading The Divine Invasion, the sequel to VALIS. For those who don't know, it's basically about a woman who unwillingly becomes pregnant with God... sorta. There are mentions of Job here and there (obviously... seems pretty fitting), and this line caught my attention:

"I am a diseased rat in a kind of cage."

Um. I just realized that this topic doesn't leave much room for discussion. I just thought it was interesting, is all. I think I like The Divine Invasion more than VALIS, so you guys should read them both. They're pretty quick reads anyway.

conclusion: Billy steals his lyrics from sci-fi books.

Sarcastic Smile
12-23-2007, 04:05 PM
Yea.. I forget what interview it was but the interviewer mentions his lyrics referencing a certain book( a different one than the one you mention here).. and he gets all defensive about it..

tcm
12-23-2007, 04:19 PM
rats have commonly been kept in cages for hundreds of years, probably ever since that plague thing.

i_adore_adore
12-23-2007, 04:21 PM
tcm's always out to ruin my fun. I still underlined the line and wrote "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" next to it. It's a library book, so I probably just turned 9287489237 Philip K. Dick fans on to the Smashing Pumpkins. You're welcome, Billy.

???
12-23-2007, 04:26 PM
Yea.. I forget what interview it was but the interviewer mentions his lyrics referencing a certain book( a different one than the one you mention here).. and he gets all defensive about it..

he's been compared to Eli Wiesel

tcm
12-23-2007, 04:26 PM
Yea.. I forget what interview it was but the interviewer mentions his lyrics referencing a certain book( a different one than the one you mention here).. and he gets all defensive about it..
maybe the Listessa interview (http://www.spfc.org/online/qualityposts.html?content_id=542) where Billy was asked about the accusation that he plagiarized Elie Wiesel (which was total bullshit (http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=137588)).

tcm
12-23-2007, 04:27 PM
tcm's always out to ruin my fun. I still underlined the line and wrote "Bullet with Butterfly Wings" next to it. It's a library book, so I probably just turned 9287489237 Philip K. Dick fans on to the Smashing Pumpkins. You're welcome, Billy.
come on, i want to have fun. let's have some fun, i_adore_adore. badminton?

i_adore_adore
12-23-2007, 04:31 PM
that's actually what we're doing in PE right now. I OWN at that game. Seriously... I've been undefeated for like... weeks.

It's uncanny that you would suggest it... creep.

Sarcastic Smile
12-23-2007, 04:35 PM
yeah see.. who's the predator now!

tcm
12-23-2007, 04:39 PM
that's just my luck, just my luck.

redbreegull
12-23-2007, 05:19 PM
Why was he compared to Ellie Wiesel?

tcm
12-23-2007, 05:32 PM
Elie. and it was your basic Internet troll.

smashkin33
12-23-2007, 07:15 PM
that's actually what we're doing in PE right now. I OWN at that game. Seriously... I've been undefeated for like... weeks.

It's uncanny that you would suggest it... creep.
ahhh, my favorite PE unit. floor hockey was pretty awesome too.

and i adore, i think i'm going to check out the books you mentioned above.

skipgo
12-23-2007, 07:15 PM
i got into that whole EW thing for a while when it was being talked about on listessa. There were similarities for sure, particularly with reference to zero.

i_adore_adore
12-23-2007, 07:23 PM
ahhh, my favorite PE unit. floor hockey was pretty awesome too.

and i adore, i think i'm going to check out the books you mentioned above.

I LOVE FLOOR HOCKEY! God, it gets pretty intense... my PE class is with my band class (like the people in both classes are the same), and we're all good friends, so we have lots of fun :D

Also, do read themmm! I can't stop (well, obviously I can since I'm here, but you know what I mean...) I love the way he writes :)

smashkin33
12-23-2007, 07:30 PM
we had different gym classes we could pick from.
there was "team sports" which was flag football, soccer, and other jock stuff. i did not take that.
there was "weight room" which was full of meatheads, and i didn't take that either.
there was "lifetime sports" which was floor hockey, golf, tennis, bowling- WHICH I ALWAYS TOOK! it was the best. all the non jock orchestra nerd stoner kids took it.
there was also "project adventure" which i took sometimes too- we had a rock climbing wall in one of our gyms. that was awesome.

but i'm always looking for books to read, but with the holidays i haven't had as much time to read. i have 2 books in cue to read!

i_adore_adore
12-23-2007, 07:33 PM
We're going bowling next term :D Fun stuff. I hated PE in middle school because I didn't have any friends (see: "Soma" post in Song a Day thread... ahhahahahaha PATHETIC!) But now I love it :)

tcm
12-24-2007, 01:15 AM
i got into that whole EW thing for a while when it was being talked about on listessa. There were similarities for sure, particularly with reference to zero.
similarities to what? the Wiesel quotes in the original Listessa post [CLICK HERE!!!!!!!] (http://web.archive.org/web/20001217225600/www.tdl.com/~andrewm/listessa/posts/elie.html) are completely fake and the book and poem cited there don't exist.

Sarcastic Smile
12-24-2007, 01:23 AM
Those aren't wiesel quotes in the original post

i_adore_adore
12-24-2007, 01:26 AM
He's not talking about the original post in this thread. He's talking about the original post that he posted a link to.

tcm
12-24-2007, 01:28 AM
doesn't anybody 'get' hyperlinks anymore?

Sarcastic Smile
12-24-2007, 02:08 AM
Ahh I see..my mistake.

"BC> I think that music is headed towards a more hyper-poppy sound (ala
Puffy) where people take old catchy things and combine them with new
sounds and textures, hooks with sound collages."

Ya think...


"Listessa> Was MCIS influenced by the writing of Elie Wiesel?

BC> (I) never even heard of him nor read any of his work. (I) was deeply
insulted by the accusation of lyrical plagiarism. Anyone who knows me
knows i would never be that lame. A guitar riff, maybe, but not
words. There are only 12 notes, but a million words."

There is a another interview, the one I was talking about, where the interviewer was very condescending..and kept inffering that^

"Listessa> Any final words for Listessa members?

BC> I have read many discouraging things in regard to the lack of a future
that my band has, or how we shouldn't change, or we used to be better.
For those that live in the past, well you always have your c.d.'s there
to keep you warm, or hopefully you saw a memorable show with the
original lineup that you can dream back to. I know that i get sentimental
sometimes for old days and times, but those days have passed. The
band is not 20 anymore. We have seen a lot. We have been through a
lot, and we can only pass our experiences through our music in a way that
is in harmony with the people we are today, not yesterday. We wish
everyone could be happy and satisfied but alas, it is not human nature.
We never set out to be anything but ourselves. I would hope that our
success could be viewed with pride and satisfaction, not as a sign that
something has been ruined. For those of you that have been there from the
start, well to you I can offer only gratitude. For those of you that
have found us along the way, try to connect the dots and see everything
in context. "

It is very unfortunate that he has to repeat himself 9 years later!

Mariner
12-24-2007, 02:33 AM
"I have read many discouraging things in regard to the lack of a future
that my band has, or how we shouldn't change, or we used to be better.
For those that live in the past, well you always have your c.d.'s there
to keep you warm, or hopefully you saw a memorable show with the
original lineup that you can dream back to. I know that i get sentimental
sometimes for old days and times, but those days have passed. The
band is not 20 anymore. We have seen a lot. We have been through a
lot, and we can only pass our experiences through our music in a way that
is in harmony with the people we are today, not yesterday. We wish
everyone could be happy and satisfied but alas, it is not human nature.
We never set out to be anything but ourselves. I would hope that our
success could be viewed with pride and satisfaction, not as a sign that
something has been ruined. For those of you that have been there from the
start, well to you I can offer only gratitude. For those of you that
have found us along the way, try to connect the dots and see everything
in context."

It is very unfortunate that he has to repeat himself 9 years later!

it's also very unfortunate that "we" has been cut in half.

Sarcastic Smile
12-24-2007, 02:36 AM
i know :dammit:

tcm
12-24-2007, 03:18 AM
it's also very unfortunate that "we" has been cut in half.
only a third of that "we" is around at the moment. but who's counting?

The New
12-24-2007, 04:47 AM
i saw a guy wearing a zero t-shirt when i went grocery shopping this evening. true story

darcyismybass
12-24-2007, 05:40 AM
i saw a guy wearing a zero t-shirt when i went grocery shopping this evening. true story

Maybe it was me, I'm still wearing mine...

areyougaffney?
12-24-2007, 06:02 AM
Yeah I remember reading that book.
As well as the diseased rat in the cgae line, I distinctly remember a line in that book where it says Baby you're the greatest thing I got in a good way I suppose, Baby let's rock!

Mariner
12-24-2007, 06:28 AM
only a third of that "we" is around at the moment. but who's counting?


pretty much no one; too busy watching the tila tequila show and bobbing their heads to tarantula

tcm
12-24-2007, 11:01 AM
yeah that is totally happening. wake up, Mariner!

skipgo
12-24-2007, 11:47 AM
similarities to what? the Wiesel quotes in the original Listessa post [CLICK HERE!!!!!!!] (http://web.archive.org/web/20001217225600/www.tdl.com/~andrewm/listessa/posts/elie.html) are completely fake and the book and poem cited there don't exist.

i checked out some of his books from the library and read them, there was one where a chapter heading read, "the emptiness of god" and went on to talk about God's loneliness. This is what I'm referring to, not the post on listessa.

AnnMarie727
12-24-2007, 11:49 AM
"Listessa> Any final words for Listessa members?

BC> I have read many discouraging things in regard to the lack of a future
that my band has, or how we shouldn't change, or we used to be better.
For those that live in the past, well you always have your c.d.'s there
to keep you warm, or hopefully you saw a memorable show with the
original lineup that you can dream back to. I know that i get sentimental
sometimes for old days and times, but those days have passed. The
band is not 20 anymore. We have seen a lot. We have been through a
lot, and we can only pass our experiences through our music in a way that
is in harmony with the people we are today, not yesterday. We wish
everyone could be happy and satisfied but alas, it is not human nature.
We never set out to be anything but ourselves. I would hope that our
success could be viewed with pride and satisfaction, not as a sign that
something has been ruined. For those of you that have been there from the
start, well to you I can offer only gratitude. For those of you that
have found us along the way, try to connect the dots and see everything
in context. "

It is very unfortunate that he has to repeat himself 9 years later!

well that could be repeated at any point in time. it's a truth that he lives his life by.
it will still be a truth 9 more years later and if he says again at that point it will be just as valid :)

tcm
12-24-2007, 11:55 AM
i checked out some of his books from the library and read them, there was one where a chapter heading read, "the emptiness of god" and went on to talk about God's loneliness. This is what I'm referring to, not the post on listessa.
i see. carry on, ma'am.

AnnMarie727
12-24-2007, 11:56 AM
during the time of mctis i was in H.S learning the holocaust. 10th grade. I think i remember reading about people trying to make a parallel between Wisel and Corgan back then but only a few things really came up.
I think where the parallels may come up could be in a few themes. I think BC is very sensitive to humanitarian concerns as person. And the tragedy of the holocaust and the spirituality that comes out of such a horrible thing is interesting. because there are survivors. people who suffered the most horrible things ever are alive and tell the story. why are they alive today? why didn't they give in to such terrible torture and just die? because they are alive and God created them and what's inside of them kept them alive. they are heros. How amazing is that?
I remember studying that i remember all the tears i cried. most of all i was angry. how disgusting that humanity could do such things to each other. what kind of darkness could have been inside of the people who participated in such destruction. But ultimately the darkness lost of course. Because God always wins. :)

tcm
12-24-2007, 12:00 PM
i would not say the darkness lost... the battle between good and evil rages ever on, and we must stay on guard to that...

AnnMarie727
12-24-2007, 12:02 PM
true^ but the holocaust was stopped so in that way the darkness lost

T&T
12-24-2007, 12:10 PM
But ultimately the darkness lost of course. Because God always wins. :)tell that to a jew

skipgo
12-24-2007, 12:11 PM
i see. carry on, ma'am.

i was definitely inspired by that listessa stuff to check it out on my own though; actually I'd never heard of him before that, and I ended up reading Night and becoming seriously depressed for a long time. It really made me re-evaluate what i had believed in up to that point.

i_adore_adore
12-24-2007, 01:08 PM
Yeah I remember reading that book.
As well as the diseased rat in the cgae line, I distinctly remember a line in that book where it says Baby you're the greatest thing I got in a good way I suppose, Baby let's rock!

I must not be that far in the book yet.

And in response to mayday, you're an idiot. At least 11 million people died. Despite those who survived, I wouldn't really say that was a victory for "the good guys."

Sarcastic Smile
12-24-2007, 01:24 PM
My mother is a private nurse and one of her patients was in a concentration camp.. He made a documentary, and went back to where the camp was that he was in and explains everything that went on.. it's so fucking sad. I don't know if it is available to the public, but the name of it is ..crap it's at my mother's ..but when googling his name I found this link (if anyone cares)
http://blogs.mysuccessgateway.com/?p=148

i_adore_adore
12-24-2007, 01:39 PM
My school's play was The Diary of Anne Frank, with excerpts from I Never Saw Another Butterfly (which is basically a book compiling poetry and artwork from children at Terezin), and I was part of the I Never Saw Another Butterfly portion. So our director took us to Skokie, IL, to meet two survivors at the Holocaust museum there. One went through the death camps, the other hid out. It was incredible to meet them. They actually came to the play, and were introduced at the end, and a little boy sitting next to them just hugged them and started crying. That's the power of theater. The highest form of education.

drowningspider
12-25-2007, 05:57 AM
Yea.. I forget what interview it was but the interviewer mentions his lyrics referencing a certain book( a different one than the one you mention here).. and he gets all defensive about it..
I remember another interview where Billy was questioned by a fan about Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five (I remember the first time I read that book and happened upon "here is no why" I thought "Wow, Billy must be a Vonnegut fan!") and he got defensive then, too, and said he'd never read the book. But D'arcy had. Which makes me love her.

monkeyfritters
12-25-2007, 08:00 AM
i would not say the darkness lost... the battle between good and evil rages ever on, and we must stay on guard to that...
oh yeah?