post whatever you don't like about this album

I personally find it fake, without any personality, without any life, it's sterile, boring, too safe and predictable, it's like a pop-rock album intended to sell, it came and it will quickly disappear, there's no musical complexity, there's nothing worth remarking, horrible lyrics, horrible voice, a horrible long song (United States) with a very gay scream at the end, the songs are too over-calculated... it's a piece of shit... bill should have waited longer

P.S. been done before ? fuck you!

i like the album.. i think it's genuine, beautiful, diverse, interesting, lovely, rocking, and a job well done

:)

i like the album

Me too.

Z might not be the best but after you have made a decades worth of awesomeness where else is there to go.


This album sounds like a band tryin to find its footing again.

It could not have been easy.

I can hear the absensce of his former bandmates bearing down like giant weight on his shoulders . Give the guy a break will Ya.

Also Me is teh Drunk :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

post whatever you don't like about this album

I personally find it fake, without any personality, without any life, it's sterile, boring, too safe and predictable, it's like a pop-rock album intended to sell, it came and it will quickly disappear, there's no musical complexity, there's nothing worth remarking, horrible lyrics, horrible voice, a horrible long song (United States) with a very gay scream at the end, the songs are too over-calculated... it's a piece of shit... bill should have waited longer

All true. But US live is awesome.

What I don't like is the lack of emotion in Billy's voice(s). Even the US scream doesn't feel like it's genuine.

I think the tone of the guitars isn't... right. It's a polished sort of distortion (which is an oxymoron that makes no sense, I know). The geetars need to be muddier, I think. Just a matter of taste, I guess.

That said, I love Zeitgeist. I could say something bad about every album (except Mellon Collie. It's flawless. FLAWLESS!)

What I don't like is the lack of emotion in Billy's voice(s). Even the US scream doesn't feel like it's genuine.

I think the tone of the guitars isn't... right. It's a polished sort of distortion (which is an oxymoron that makes no sense, I know). The geetars need to be muddier, I think. Just a matter of taste, I guess.

That said, I love Zeitgeist. I could say something bad about every album (except Mellon Collie. It's flawless. FLAWLESS!)

bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish

WE ONLY COME OUT AT NIGHT

(actually, that song rocks)

Z might not be the best but after you have made a decades worth of awesomeness where else is there to go.


This album sounds like a band tryin to find its footing again.

It could not have been easy.

I can hear the absensce of his former bandmates bearing down like giant weight on his shoulders . Give the guy a break will Ya.




I agree. even without that being said. i genuinely like the music and the thought that went into this album

i am not a big fan of seven shades of black. i like the rest of the album, and love the songs of this album when played live.

TAFH = anti-Corgan Rules

TAFH is a fucking pussy troll

TAFH is a fucking pussy troll

I'm not a troll... so fuck off

All true. But US live is awesome.


yes

I'm not a troll... so fuck off


you are one grumpy pants dude though

Come on Lets Go, FG+C, and Starz should've been replaced with:

Gossamer, Stellar, and Zeitgeist

Otherwise, I think it's a solid effort.

i like the zeitgeist...

I'm not a troll... so fuck off
and a pussy

I'm not a troll... so fuck off

no u

This is what I posted in the "Do you like MACHINA?" thread:

My least favorite SP album, and when you add the rest of it, MACHINA II, into the mix, I like it even less. My problem with it is that there are no songs on it that I think are great, but there are quite a few songs on it I consider good (SIYL, This Time, Age of Innocense). There are these good songs, and then along with them, there are many (too many) not-so-good or just plain bad songs (HMM, Crying Tree, Imploding Voice, Blue Skies being some of the bad). MACHINA II is even worse in this ratio of good/bad songs, with forgettable songs like Glass' Theme, Cash Car Star, and White Spyder.

Some people have apparently "rediscovered" MACHINA and have changed their minds about it and like it due in part to them hating Zeitgeist so much. Zeitgeist is like MACHINA to me in that it also has no truly great songs, but the good songs on it far outnumber the forgettable/bad ones. Come On, 7 Shades, and Pomp (Geez, especially Pomp!) are the only songs on that album I really don't like.

The criticisms of Zeitgeist (poor vocals, lyrics, guitar-playing, theme) are all understandable, in my opinion. I also agree that Billy just decided to "play it safe" with this "comeback album," but I kinda think this is what should've been done for the first SP2 album, especially considering when BC & JC were making this, they had no idea who they were gonna have alongside 'em on tour. I agree there's nothing spectacular about this album, but I won't say it's SP's worst, this is still clearly the mess known as MACHINA I & II for me. Ya know, I remember liking the MACHINAs in 2000, but I think I stopped giving these two lackluster albums "the benefit of the doubt" shortly after the band had broken up. Whether it was for the money, the fame, or whatever, I'm sure glad Billy decided to resurrect SP so that MACHINA I & II isn't the last thing I have to remember from my favorite band.

In my opinion, Zeitgeist is the first SP album without a single great song on it. Sure, it has plenty of good ones, but nothing on par with the highlights of the previous ones. Machina was a bit like that too, but at least it had SIYL as it's saving grace.

That being said though, I still like Zeitgeist. Had it not been yet released and the current line-up would now record it as a group, it would be landslides better. Bill still has a great album in him. Gossamer and Rose March convinced me on that.

^^Agreed. Another reason why I'm okay with Zeitgeist is the fact that my expectations for the album were low, and it turned out to be slightly better than my sub-par expectations. The follow-up album though, this is somethin' I'm expecting A LOT out of.

I think the tone of the guitars isn't... right. It's a polished sort of distortion (which is an oxymoron that makes no sense, I know). The geetars need to be muddier, I think. Just a matter of taste, I guess.

i've noticed this also
(especially after seeing them on the 2007 tour)
and it's quite a feat to achieve...
do I love it? not like i love my youth
is it clearly an SP sound? definitly...
every album they've re-created a new sound for themselves
this new sound is still carrying the past, but with much more maturity

that said, i guess the same applies to the lyrics and songwritting too
"carrying the past, but with much more maturity"

I like the album and listen to it at least twice each day. It has really grown on me. They could have taken some more risks here and there, but other than that I think it's fine.

seriously....pomp and circumstances......wtf

same goes for FGAC, COLG, BTL, TTW, Starzzzzz

i think tarantula, doomsday, 7shades, orchid are all more than solid, with the only amazing track being united states....(though slightly disappointing given that it's 10x better live)

the tracks together just don't work as an album....especially when half are either bad/forgettable

i'd consider it slightly better than machina, though not by much

Production is horrible, too many layers of Billy's now polished and at times emotionless voice - many shit songs (Pomp, Starz, FGAC, Doomsday Clock) - United States sounds like a formulaic mandatory "epic". Billy lost his mojo with this one.

That said, I do love the sound of the new songs - although Gossamer is waaaay too long.

I listen to it almost everyday on the way to work and back and i'm still not tired of it. It's one of those albums where nothing really stands out as great but the thing as a whole is worth it and keeps me listening and enjoying it. If their next album is just as good as zeit then i'll be happy.

bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish
bum chick bu-bum tish

WE ONLY COME OUT AT NIGHT

(actually, that song rocks)


Totally

As much as I like Z it is missing the fun that previous albums seemed to have. Tracks like, We only come out at night & Lily, If there is a God, Dusty and Pistol Pete.

D'arcy and James = Fun?

Good album ruined by horrible mixing/mastering. Also could be a bit more focused, seems like it wants to be modrn psych rock, emo, and new wave all at once.

i like it. but i don't think it's a pumpkins album. i really agree with what somebody said about them "being a band trying to get their footing again". i think they will really surprise us with the next album, as in it'll probably be more like the real sp.

you know i like zeitgeist but i agree with almost every criticism made to some extent. hm

Almost everyone has the same basic criticisms of Zeitgeist, lackluster vocals which are too high in the mix, less heartfelt lyrics/more corny, etc. The degree to which people like it just seems to depend on how willing they are to accept the absence of James/Darcy and what their expecations were.

I for one really enjoy the album. It's got enough variety and is short enough to stay enjoyable. That is my primary problem with Machina, it's length, not just the number of songs but in some cases go one chorus or verse too far. It drags too much for me.

I have higher expectations for the next album though and am hoping Jeff, Ginger and Lisa make an impact on it. I think we'll get something a little less calculated and more like a band playing together which is also one of the ways Zeitgeist falls down.

Unlike you, I have a deep respect and admiration for this album.

The opener Doomsday clock is a little empty and bland but the chorus is beautiful.

From great rock classics like 7 shades,, Starz and United States to more melodic gems like Neverlost, Thats the Way and Bleeding the Orchid this album never fails to dissapoint.

The grand finale of Pomp is just awe inspiring. I literally had shivers running down my spine when first listening to it and have listened to it every day since. It gives me strange images, like flying in the sunset with snow laying all around through hills and valleys. It is truly, truly powerful song.

This album is a gem, a rare treat in an obscure and commercialised industry.

Zeitgeist is not only merely good.........it shines.

This album got me back into the Pumpkins hardcore, so I'd call it a success.


But like everyone else, I have the same complaint. Vocals too high/clean/bad eq. Too compressed...

But it's still a killer album that I love listening to.

um zeitgeist is bad because it has no emotion and vocals and production are also bad

I think it's got lots of emotion and i love the vocals

I think it's got lots of emotion and i love the vocals

I think you're a fucking idiot.

I literally had shivers running down my spine when first listening to it and have listened to it every day since. It gives me strange images, like flying in the sunset with snow laying all around through hills and valleys. It is truly, truly powerful song.

This album is a gem, a rare treat in an obscure and commercialised industry.

Zeitgeist is not only merely good.........it shines.

:rofl:

I think you're a fucking idiot.

sorry to hear it^ have a nice day :)

SP1 somehow spoke to a younger generation, either SP2 is trying to do that again and most of us dont like it, or SP2 is too old and has no more relevance

it speaks to me in a language i can ignore

I like all of tracks 1-7, but theres nothing really different in there. Tracks 8-12 are different, but mostly inferior. That said, its a very solid album and I've listened to it a ridiculous number of times.

Yes, I know, im a complete fan-boy and whatever SP put out I would love simply because its Billy. And i admit it.

I think it's got lots of emotion and i love the vocals

think and feel the same.Z is great.FGAC and PAC that u don't like are like emotional roller-coasters for me.

FGAC is the best example of a song that first struck me as mediocre, almost woefully, and has become a favorite of mine. I love the bass and synth. The two most off-beat tracks on the album (this and "Neverlost") are ultimately underappreciated. Only "(CO)LG" is low on the duracells, though it nevertheless has some nice riffs.

This noted, I really would like to hear the original version of "Signal to Noise" and wonder what it could have brought to the album.

And, um, to add - Z probably has my favorite vocals for a Corgan record - it's not the soulfulness of Siamese Dream (which I relate to almost this James Brown kind of thing), but other than "DC", it works for me.

From great rock classics like 7 shades,, Starz and United States to more melodic gems like Neverlost, Thats the Way and Bleeding the Orchid this album never fails to dissapoint.

i agree with this

It does something that no other Pumpkins album ever done imo, box itself in. As a whole it is just too restricted and safe. No other Pumpkins album sounds this simple, no other pumpkins album is this calculated. TFE is calculated, and some of that design is certainly employed here. Well the problem is that it breaks identity, and leaves a taste of "pop" ethic that you really just can't savour for prolonged duration.

There is feeling in this album, and there is honesty, but freedom there is not (as a whole). Maybe this is the state of mind Corgan has at present, and maybe he looks at some of his past as naive. Yet he never held back before, not on any album as a whole.

Without echoing the same shit over and over again, circumstances put the band in a difficult position so calculated restraint is understandable, but maybe there is just too much business thought going on. There is still innovation, and it is still just about different enough to save itself, but it really borders on the line of Pumpkins and non-Pumpkins (idealistically speaking).

I thought tht interesting thing about their 'ask a pumpkin' response was that they said that Zeitgeist was to show new fans what the band was about, and from here they can start to push the boundaries.

I thought tht interesting thing about their 'ask a pumpkin' response was that they said that Zeitgeist was to show new fans what the band was about, and from here they can start to push the boundaries.

The kind of view which undermines the process from the start. But I don't think they will ever make an album like this again, and I still like it nonetheless, but it is just not on the same level as the other Pumpkins albums.

Look, after digesting the Zeitgeist for a few months, I'd have to say it's a solid album, and it has grown on me by leaps and bounds. When I first heard the album, I was kind of :erm: but now, the album fits perfectly into the discography of Smashing Pumpkins. Look, this was the first hard rock album that Billy Corgan had truly made since Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, so what's to expect? The album is good, and has it's own personality, which makes me honestly really happy. It's not like Mellon Collie, nor is it Siamese Dream, or even Adore. It's Zeitgeist. The album is experimental, but a bit more safeguarded then Billy's normal Smashing Pumpkins releases, which works for me; because the experimental side has me pretty happy and content with the album, as well as the album's flat out 'balls out' rock style.

My honest opinion is that only the Pumpkins could put out the insane rocker Tarantula and the completely odd and whacked out Pomp and Circumstance and pull it off. Only the Pumpkins. The album switches back and forth quickly, and gives you a taste of all of Billy Corgan's many musical eras; at the beginning, you get a heavy Gish feel, with Bleeding the Orchid, there's a pretty heavy Siamese Dream feel, with That's the Way, Come On (Let's Go), and Bring the Light, you get a heavy Zwan feel, with Tarantula, United States, Starz, you get a pretty heavy Mellon Collie feel, with For God and Country, you feel like Adore, with Pomp and Circumstances you feel pretty TFE, and with Stellar and Death From Above, there's some MACHINA in there. It's basically Billy just getting his foot in the door. He wants to grab the hearts of all the fans out there, and pull them back in for the next album, which he has aluded will be much different, and from the new live songs, this will most likely be the case. And honestly, most people here can say that this album would have been as good as Mellon Collie, etc. if the vocals weren't so piss poor and Stellar would have been on the album.

Songs like Neverlost, Stellar, Death From Above, and Bleeding the Orchid really give you hope for a future amazing Pumpkins album. Billy still has an amazing album or two in him, and you probably will get this with the next release; but for now, enjoy the Zeitgeist; it's hear to remind you the Mighty SP is still here, and only good music will come from this.

one thing i dont like about zeitgeist is how much it sucks.

I really dislike United States. The slowdown jammish part sounds like he fucking forgot he was plugged in.

I listen to zeitgeist when I'm really focussed.

I don't really feel passionately enough about Zeitgeist to loathe it. I guess "meh" is the word i'm looking for.

I think the tone of the guitars isn't... right. It's a polished sort of distortion (which is an oxymoron that makes no sense, I know). The geetars need to be muddier, I think. Just a matter of taste, I guess.
its the clipping.

actually its RTB. this sounds like a Queen album production wise. ie WAY TOO MUCH FUCKING VOCAL.

I'm a fan of Zeitgeist, and looking over the replies I can really agree with a lot of the opinions here, give or take one or two. I can really see them making something really great in the next five years. To me, Zeitgeist has its moments, and I really love it, but the best is yet to come


edit: I also really hope that Jeff, Ginger and Lisa are involved in the next album

"the best is yet to come"! I'll second that^

edit: I also really hope that Jeff, Ginger and Lisa are involved in the next album


does billy even regard these guys as pumpkins? he seems to pretty much shun them at every given oppurtunity

he introduced Jeff as lead guitarist though!!!

And one show he gave a nice little speech about how awesome everyone's been at learning all the songs. And stuff.

but they suck now

Decent album / B-sides.

there are enough elements of what the pumpkins were to keep me listening and to find enjoyment in the album, but i would be lying to say i am not a little disappointed in the finished product considering the length of the build-up.

on balance:

the music is very good, not the heights they are capable of but strong nonetheless.

the singing style billy has favoured in the studio post-machina is not a good move. i don't know whether this is the treatment, as some have suggested, because live he sounds strong.

the lyrics vary between average - poor by comparison with previous SP.

the vocals are too prominent (like redbull said). i remember RTB talking about this and it just doesn't work.

they should have brought somebody in to do the backing vocals (maybe someone like rachel haden).

the la-la-la in a couple of songs (orchid off the top of my head) is irritating.

some tfe-style electronic noodling (that's the way) which seems intrusive.

that seems quite negative now i look at it and for sure there are some minor gripes in there, but i still like the album, just think some of it's potential was squandered or unrealized.

i have a lot of expectation for the next record.

he introduced Jeff as lead guitarist though!!!

And one show he gave a nice little speech about how awesome everyone's been at learning all the songs. And stuff.

ah k

i haven't watched many live performances, so i guess my comments were in reference to the berlin secret show, zeitgeist duets with jimmy, the youtube interviews, no pics of them in the zeitgeist cd booklet...etc

maybe it's just the lack of group shots in the press that isn't cementing their togetherness

i just want to know if they're one big happy family or not :)

there are enough elements of what the pumpkins were to keep me listening and to find enjoyment in the album, but i would be lying to say i am not a little disappointed in the finished product considering the length of the build-up.

on balance:

the music is very good, not the heights they are capable of but strong nonetheless.

the singing style billy has favoured in the studio post-machina is not a good move. i don't know whether this is the treatment, as some have suggested, because live he sounds strong.

the lyrics vary between average - poor by comparison with previous SP.

the vocals are too prominent (like redbull said). i remember RTB talking about this and it just doesn't work.

they should have brought somebody in to do the backing vocals (maybe someone like rachel haden).

the la-la-la in a couple of songs (orchid off the top of my head) is irritating.

some tfe-style electronic noodling (that's the way) which seems intrusive.

that seems quite negative now i look at it and for sure there are some minor gripes in there, but i still like the album, just think some of it's potential was squandered or unrealized.

i have a lot of expectation for the next record.

agree 100%
it's definately not great for an SP album, but not the disaster some make it out to be. No GREAT songs but lots of good ones, and some great moments ("i see the moonlight..." part in Death From Above, BTO has a lot of emotion in the singing IMO, P&C and Neverlost show some diversity). United States, while not deserving to be a 10 min song IMO (not enough going on), has some KILLER parts that are on par with older SP 'metal' songs.

And seeing them in Asheville on 6/27 for a killer show definately renewed my interest for this album (which hadn't been released at that point) and at least the next one. Going to a festival show in S FL also later this year also. The 6/27 totally BLEW ME AWAY. It was my 4th SP show and the best one followed by MCIS tour 11/17/96 (I think?) when I was 11.