following on from suze's latest post which stated that few things have been as durable as anti-semitism

why do you think this is?

suze, the floor is yours

because you stupid fuck. people, all people, are pure idiots.

then again, with you being one of them, that means you need to come up with a witty yet passive bad-ass remark. *nods*

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:


why do you think this is?

suze, the floor is yours</font>

shut up



------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

ahh, cos of people like nevermind...

i see

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
shut up
</font>

i've got news for you: no

Well, it could be because people were jealous of how rich some of them could be? Because people can't deal with differences. No idea.

(This was inspired by something I said?). : )

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
i've got news for you: no</font>

you suck



------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

<3

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
you suck
</font>

ok then

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
you suck
</font>
HE DIDN'T FUCKING SAY HE WAS A NAZI, FOR FUCK'S SAKE. HE WAS JUST STARTING A CONTROVERSIAL THREAD. MY GOD.

I'm sorry. Excuse me. I shouldn't have said that. I don't believe in god.

for every race you can find people that hate them if you look hard enough.

http://cheez125.homestead.com/files/jewz.jpg

controversy is one thing, but being rude is quite another, and just plain senseless

------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

They killed Jesus, or something?

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
controversy is one thing, but being rude is quite another, and just plain senseless
</font>

care to point out my rudeness?

well, the common concept is scapegoating and jews being in the wrong place at the wrong time. since jews have been without a homeland for 2000 years they have you know, as you all know, had to rely on the "kindness of strangers" for a homeland.

so, you have a group of people living in a country that is decidedly *different* from everyone else (traditional judaism is very anti-assimilation), and a lot of the countries these people were living in were plain and simply, corrupt. so , the basic concept of a corrupt government is you find something for the people to hate that isn't the government, basically tell them that it's THEIR fault, you know. like the classic scapegoat thing and like in 1984. so that's one reason. like that's what russia did. they sponsored antisemitism so that people wouldn't realize that it was the czar who was oppressing the masses. that's wha thappened..there were these chelminicki massacres where , i forget. the jews were the tax-collectors for these rich polish landlords and the cossacks rose up and killed the jews. and then i think the poles killed the jews too i forget. so that's one excuse.

the other issue, it sort of ties into it, is christian antisemitism. which i guess possibly started with the scapegoat thing? i mean somehow it's in the bible that the jews killed christ. so..yeah. the two tie together but you have these people living in christian countries that are basically *heretics* , and they don't have a homeland so they aren't a *country* simply a pitiful group of people. and...

i dunno. there are a billion examples. you have the black death and people couldn't figure out what caused it so they figured it was the jews. i guess that's a combination of scape-goating and maybe christian antisemitism.

and...i know this post i sjumping all over. this is why i like to quote other people cuz i don't make sense.

i guess the basic concept is you have a country-less people with different customs as everyone else that refuse to assimilate. and you have the biblical perspective and you have, i don't know why the fuck martin luther felt the urge tow rite a book called 'the jews and their lies' but he did, and, see i'm babbling so lemme find something that makes more sense.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
care to point out my rudeness?

</font>

so you are senseless


------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

Religious battles have been ongoing since the start of time. This is a really retarded thread.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
i've got jews for you: no</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
well, the common concept is scapegoating and jews being in the wrong place at the wrong time. since jews have been without a homeland for 2000 years they have you know, as you all know, had to rely on the "kindness of strangers" for a homeland.

so, you have a group of people living in a country that is decidedly *different* from everyone else (traditional judaism is very anti-assimilation), and a lot of the countries these people were living in were plain and simply, corrupt. so , the basic concept of a corrupt government is you find something for the people to hate that isn't the government, basically tell them that it's THEIR fault, you know. like the classic scapegoat thing and like in 1984. so that's one reason. like that's what russia did. they sponsored antisemitism so that people wouldn't realize that it was the czar who was oppressing the masses. that's wha thappened..there were these chelminicki massacres where , i forget. the jews were the tax-collectors for these rich polish landlords and the cossacks rose up and killed the jews. and then i think the poles killed the jews too i forget. so that's one excuse.

the other issue, it sort of ties into it, is christian antisemitism. which i guess possibly started with the scapegoat thing? i mean somehow it's in the bible that the jews killed christ. so..yeah. the two tie together but you have these people living in christian countries that are basically *heretics* , and they don't have a homeland so they aren't a *country* simply a pitiful group of people. and...

i dunno. there are a billion examples. you have the black death and people couldn't figure out what caused it so they figured it was the jews. i guess that's a combination of scape-goating and maybe christian antisemitism.

and...i know this post i sjumping all over. this is why i like to quote other people cuz i don't make sense.

i guess the basic concept is you have a country-less people with different customs as everyone else that refuse to assimilate. and you have the biblical perspective and you have, i don't know why the fuck martin luther felt the urge tow rite a book called 'the jews and their lies' but he did, and, see i'm babbling so lemme find something that makes more sense.</font>

Shut the fuck up, retard.
You are always such a one-sided, babbling moron... why don't you actually do some research and maybe a little independent thought before you post. <font color="black>

[This message has been edited by kypper (edited 05-09-2002).]

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
so you are senseless


</font>


you make me want to punch myself in the kidneys.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
so you are senseless
</font>

er, no. point out where i was rude to the jews or to anyone else for that matter

show the board what a rude bigoted person i am!!! earn yourself some kudos for proving me wrong!!!

oh, wait...you can't

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by nevermind:
because you stupid fuck. people, all people, are pure idiots.

then again, with you being one of them, that means you need to come up with a witty yet passive bad-ass remark. *nods*</font>

soo... since you are a person, and therefore one of them also... that explains, well, alot.



------------------
okay clint, i'm gonna smell my snatch RIGHT now and tell you if it smells like nine-month-old bologna
okay i'm not too flexible but from what i can tell it doesn't smell like nine-month old bologna.

-miss samsa

back in the day jews ran most political aspects of cities. they were the treasurers, doctors, city council, etc. so when everything would fuck up in the town it was all because jews were in charge. so everyone hated jews.

(idea) by Frater 219 (print) ? 1 C! Thu Jul 12 2001 at 02:44:12 UTC


The term "anti-semitism" was coined by German agitator Wilhelm Marr, who founded the League for Anti-Semitism in 1879. Marr advocated pseudoscientific biological and anthropological ideas which held the "Jewish race" inferior to the "Aryan" or "Teutonic" race. He created the term "anti-semitism" to distinguish this secular hatred of the "Jewish race" from earlier religious prejudice against Judaism.
What was this earlier prejudice? Prior to the 19th century, prejudice against Jews was largely founded upon suspicion of their religion and its practices, or of their insularity as a community. The Catholic Church taught that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus Christ, and that their rejection of Christianity was an ongoing affront to God. (Indeed, some anti-Jewish doctrines remained in the Catholic catechism and liturgy up through the 1960s.) In Spain and France, the Inquisition tortured or killed openly Jewish men and women who would not convert. Martin Luther and other Protestant leaders fulminated against the Jewish community both as Christ-killers and as conspirators. Many European Christians believed the myth now known as the blood libel -- the idea that Jews drank human blood (or specifically that of unbaptized Christian children) in their religious rituals. Many Christian Europeans also suspected Jews of economic collusion and political conspiracy -- allegations still parroted today by anti-semitic conspiracy theorists. It was this cultural ********** which formed the environment for later racial anti-semitism.

Since Marr's time, and particularly since the time of the Holocaust, the term "anti-semitism" has come to refer to any form of prejudice against Jews -- whether racial, theological, economic, or otherwise. Some Zionists have attempted to broaden the term to ******* political opposition to the modern nation of Israel, although this is more accurately anti-Zionism.

In the Western world today, anti-semitism is thankfully rare. It is chiefly represented in so-called "hate groups" -- clubs, churches, and gangs focused on their hatred for racial and religious minorities. Examples ******* America's Ku Klux Klan and World Church of the Creator; England's National Front; small neo-Nazi gangs throughout Europe; and Scandinavia's White Power organizations and racial nationalist political parties.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NinjaTurtle:
back in the day jews ran most political aspects of cities. they were the treasurers, doctors, city council, etc. so when everything would fuck up in the town it was all because jews were in charge. so everyone hated jews.</font>

hehehe you are funneh.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
(idea) by Frater 219 (print) ? 1 C! Thu Jul 12 2001 at 02:44:12 UTC


The term "anti-semitism" was coined by German agitator Wilhelm Marr, who founded the League for Anti-Semitism in 1879. Marr advocated pseudoscientific biological and anthropological ideas which held the "Jewish race" inferior to the "Aryan" or "Teutonic" race. He created the term "anti-semitism" to distinguish this secular hatred of the "Jewish race" from earlier religious prejudice against Judaism.
What was this earlier prejudice? Prior to the 19th century, prejudice against Jews was largely founded upon suspicion of their religion and its practices, or of their insularity as a community. The Catholic Church taught that the Jews were responsible for the death of Jesus Christ, and that their rejection of Christianity was an ongoing affront to God. (Indeed, some anti-Jewish doctrines remained in the Catholic catechism and liturgy up through the 1960s.) In Spain and France, the Inquisition tortured or killed openly Jewish men and women who would not convert. Martin Luther and other Protestant leaders fulminated against the Jewish community both as Christ-killers and as conspirators. Many European Christians believed the myth now known as the blood libel -- the idea that Jews drank human blood (or specifically that of unbaptized Christian children) in their religious rituals. Many Christian Europeans also suspected Jews of economic collusion and political conspiracy -- allegations still parroted today by anti-semitic conspiracy theorists. It was this cultural ********** which formed the environment for later racial anti-semitism.

Since Marr's time, and particularly since the time of the Holocaust, the term "anti-semitism" has come to refer to any form of prejudice against Jews -- whether racial, theological, economic, or otherwise. Some Zionists have attempted to broaden the term to ******* political opposition to the modern nation of Israel, although this is more accurately anti-Zionism.

In the Western world today, anti-semitism is thankfully rare. It is chiefly represented in so-called "hate groups" -- clubs, churches, and gangs focused on their hatred for racial and religious minorities. Examples ******* America's Ku Klux Klan and World Church of the Creator; England's National Front; small neo-Nazi gangs throughout Europe; and Scandinavia's White Power organizations and racial nationalist political parties.

</font>


Ok, that's research... 50% there. Try independent thought now (that WAS the most important part).

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NinjaTurtle:
back in the day jews ran most political aspects of cities. they were the treasurers, doctors, city council, etc. so when everything would fuck up in the town it was all because jews were in charge. so everyone hated jews.</font>

oh really, jews ran the political aspects of cities all over the world?

i did not know that. thankyou.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ZERO:
hehehe you are funneh.</font>

He's right though... that is why a lot of people hate the Jews. That is what they are stereotypically known to be... and everyone hates the penny-pinchers.

Kind of stupid in this day and age, isn't it?

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
Shut the fuck up, retard.
You are always such a one-sided, babbling moron... why don't you actually do some research and maybe a little independent thought before you post. </font>

okay. so i have to do research AND independent thought?

and what i posted wasn't true? whatever. k. you are officially on my ignore list. cuz you're stupid. bye.


[This message has been edited by Samsa (edited 05-09-2002).]

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:

Kind of stupid in this day and age, isn't it?</font>

not as stupid as you, jew

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by itim:
not as stupid as you, jew</font>

Yup... you got me... an atheist jew... gotta love the irony in that.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
He's right though... that is why a lot of people hate the Jews. That is what they are stereotypically known to be... and everyone hates the penny-pinchers.

Kind of stupid in this day and age, isn't it?</font>


he's not right though because what he said was practically 100% wrong.

jews are stereotyped by people like you as penny-pinchers BECAUSE

christianity says usury is wrong. usury is the custom of lending money

therefore, christian societies basically excluded jews from all professions except that of money-lending.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
Yup... you got me... an atheist jew... gotta love the irony in that.</font>

and the homoeroticism, fag

oops i forgot i was ignoring you

http://www.igc.apc.org/ddickerson/antisemitism.html

well i'm not gonna post everything but here it is

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.html

Wow, Dave. This thread got to two pages in minutes. I'm watching Charmed, I have a feeling this is gonna be a good episode!!!


I know a very beautiful Jewish girl.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:

he's not right though because what he said was practically 100% wrong.

jews are stereotyped by people like you as penny-pinchers BECAUSE

christianity says usury is wrong. usury is the custom of lending money

therefore, christian societies basically excluded jews from all professions except that of money-lending.

</font>

I DO NOT STEREOTYPE JEWS TO BE MONEY LENDERS, FUCKWIT. I SAID THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE STEREOTYPICALLY THOUGHT TO BE WHICH HAS CAUSED A LOT OF THE ANTISEMATISM

You are such a fucking moron.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
er, no. point out where i was rude to the jews or to anyone else for that matter

show the board what a rude bigoted person i am!!! earn yourself some kudos for proving me wrong!!!

oh, wait...you can't</font>
With respect to the nature your thread, I just felt that you crossed certain lines of decency by directing your attention towards suze. However, since it seems like I pretty much blew this out of proportion, I think it's safe to say that it's most likely a case of transferred aggression that feuled my comment. Afterall, suze has been getting alot of shit, lately- er always.



------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
well i'm not gonna post everything but here it is

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.html</font>


oops this was written in the 19th centuryh :x lemme find something more recent

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
Shut the fuck up, retard.
You are always such a one-sided, babbling moron... why don't you actually do some research and maybe a little independent thought before you post.</font>

What the hell is your problem? Hers are consistently the most thoughtful responses in any given subject. "Research and independent thought"? Oh, independent thought--like your "Jews were seen as penny-pinchers" comment? I can sense the effort you spent wracking your mind for that piece of original genius.

It doesn't take much independent thought to wallow in your negativity. Lay the fuck off.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TheHappiestBoyInTheWorld:
like your "Jews were seen as penny-pinchers" comment? I can sense the effort you spent wracking your mind for that piece of original genius.
</font>

er, he was quoting a common-held stereotype within society

he never said he agreed with it...

ya know, reading helps

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
er, he was quoting a common-held stereotype within society

he never said he agreed with it...

ya know, reading helps</font>

Oh, shit. I guess when he quotes common stereotypes it's fine, but when Suze does it then it's not original or researched enough. My bad!

by Laureen Moe
SUMMARY:
The word "anti-Semitism" is inadequate. It is a misnomer. The word was coined in 1879 from the Greek words "anti", meaning "against" and "Semite", meaning a descendant of Shem. The word was first used by Wilhelm Marr a German agitator, who created it to explain the current anti-Jewish campaigns in Europe. Since the Arab peoples are also Semitic people it is not the best expression. Anti-Jewish, and Jew- hatred, are more descriptive. It is more than just prejudice. The word came into general use in the past hundred years and encompasses all forms of hostility manifested toward Jews throughout history.

There can be economic and social or racial anti-Semitism. It didn't reach epidemic proportions until 175 B.C. Previous uprisings against Jews were not really anti-Semitic. It began almost exclusively in countries which later became part of the Roman Empire. Prejudice flared it seems because Jewish people in honouring their Jewish laws, appeared to be in defiance of Gentile governments. The false assumption began to emerge that Jews didn't have any respect for whatever was held in esteem by the rest of humanity.

In the Greek Hellenistic period no other nation denied the gods of it's neighbours; on the contrary they recognized those gods, identifying them with their own deities. These heathen "gods" created a social bond between people in their domains. None of the people refrained from dining at table with their neighbours and from partaking of the sacrifices offered to their gods except the Jews. None of the peoples refused to send gifts to its neighbours temples, except the Jews. None of the peoples was unequivocally hostile to intermarriage except the Jews.

In the eastern Mediterranean area friction arose over the difference in occupations between Jews and Gentiles. The Jewish population was engaged primarily in small scale farming; the non-Jewish population occupied itself primarily in commerce. The sea trade was almost entirely in the hands of the trans-Jordanian cities, which connected Syria, Asia Minor and the regions of the Euphrates with the Arabian countries. The inhabitants of Eretz Israel had connections abroad. Non-Jews also knew that Jews looked upon their land as their divine inheritance.

The first serious manifestation of anti-Semitism was in the days of the Syrian, Antiochus Epiphanes in 175 B.C. Hellenistic rulers saw the unfriendliness of the Jews as obstacles to the cultural scene. He undertook to destroy those laws of the Talmud that he regarded as unacceptable to humanity. To this end he desecrated their place of worship by sacrificing a pig on their altar in Jerusalem, and ordered that the residual juices be sprinkled over the Holy Books containing these Jewish laws.

Greek authors in the first century portrayed the Jewish people as descendants of a mob of lepers. They further stated that because of this uncleanness Jews shunned the flesh of pigs, since pigs were more prone to contract disease. The Gentiles knew that their own pagan religions and practices rendered them unclean in the eyes of the Jews.

The fact remains that even after four thousand years the idea of a covenant between the Jews and Jehovah is still alive; and is mentioned daily in prayers in synagogues throughout the world. The idea of a covenant with God has remained constant. Because Jehovah is immortal He never dies and because He never dies He never has to be reincarnated. Thus the Jews dispensed with the reincarnation rites of the pagans. The Jews' God was invisible. The concept of "one God", Jehovah, being completely withdrawn from sexuality led to a curb of licentious impulses through inner discipline. By contrast ,the Greek gods themselves set the pattern for the unbridled lust and perversion which finally weakened the moral fibre of that people; whereas the Jews, even when they later came in contact with the Greeks, refused to indulge in the Grecian sexual excesses, which included even temple prostitution. The Jewish religion did away with all fertility rites.

As a consequence of the Jewish dietary laws, intermarriage was forbidden and no real social intercourse with gentiles was possible. Also, Jews refused to enter into Emperor worship. It was considered to be an expression of loyalty to the state. About their own religious practices a libel began to circulate that Jews actually sacrificed humans on their altars, allegedly using the blood for Passover rites. Further it was said that the sacrificed person must be a Christian or one of their children. This became known as the "Blood Libel" against the Jews. It mattered not that it was a total fabrication.

Another libel circulating was that unclean leprous people were expelled from Egypt, and that the Jews were these people. Therefore, being foreigners, it was stated that the Jews had no right to claim ancient Israel as their divinely given land.

The destruction of the temple by Titus in 70 AD was seen as hatred by God of the Jews, and as punishment. Jews in Rome felt the barbs of Roman writers. Nero's teacher was anti-Semitic. Cornelius Tacitus wrote about every libellous fabrication against Jews that he could find in Greek anti-Semitic literature. Juvenal wrote a poem revealing that to him the Jews were hateful not only to man but to the gods as well.

In the fourth century AD, when Constantine became the Roman Emperor and supposedly converted to Christianity, he harnessed Political power to Religion and passed anti-Jewish laws, whereby Jews were excluded from every sphere of political influence, and denied civic rights.

The Gospel accounts began to be the source from which wrong teachings grew, until the word "Deicide" meant the Jews killed God, and were labelled "Christ-killers". Matthew 27:25 which spoke of some Jewish leaders was used instead to apply to all Jews: "His blood be on us and on our children...Ye are of your father the devil."

Converts to Christianity and converts to Judaism sparked a seriously divisive rivalry. Religious competition began between the Greek fathers of the Church, and Jews. Church laws were passed whereby Jewish relations with Christian women was now punishable by death. Anti-Semitism at this time was mainly limited to the clergy, who were the educated minority.

Islam arose in the seventh century AD, and also attacked the Jews because the Jews did not recognize Muhammad as a legitimate Prophet. The Koran contained their writings; and many statements in it were hostile to Jews. In the Middle Ages church councils legislated to prevent contact with the Jews because Christians were saying after visiting synagogues that the Jews were better priests.

This historical ********** of centuries of anti-Semitism eventually exploded in the 20th century "Holocaust". The hostility and hatred manifested in the holocaust was therefore not new. As we have stated ancient writings contain much anti-Semitism. In pre-Roman times most people did not read or write. At times, Rome tried to eradicate Judaism and "Jewishness". Followers were assumed to be treasonous and subversive. This in turn led to major revolts on the part of the Jewish community.

The following is a brief summary of Incidents involving Jews in History... 135 B.C
Antiochus Epiphanes desecrates Second Jewish Temple; leading to Hasmonean Revolt against Rome.

70 A.D.
Titus took Jerusalem - second revolt. Over one million Jews killed.

136 A.D.
580,000 men destroyed, 985 towns destroyed - third revolt.

300 A.D.
Purim festival celebrating God's deliverance to Mordecai and the Jews through Esther and the fasting. Lies spread that Jews kill Christians for sacrifice. Emperor Severus also said the Jews purchased 90,000 Christians to kill them.

306 A.D.
Council in Spain banned Christians & Jews meeting or marrying.

325 A.D.
Constantine changed the celebration of Easter on the calendar so that it did not coincide with the Jewish Passover.

379 A.D.
Vicious writing by St. John Chrysostom and St. Ambrose in Milan who said: "The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them." He was called the Bishop with the Golden Tongue. St. Ambrose, Bishop of the Church offered to burn the synagogue himself.

395 A.D.
St. Gregory of Nyssa in sermons and writings characterized Jews as assassins of the Prophets, companions of the Devil, a race of vipers, a Sanhedrin of Demons, enemies of all that is beautiful, hogs and goats in their lewd grossness.

415 A.D.
Bishop Severus BURNED THE SYNAGOGUE IN THE VILLAGE OF MAGONA. BISHOP OF
ALEXANDRIA, ST. CYRIL EXPELLED JEWS FROM ALEXANDRIA AND GAVE THE MOB JEWISH PROPERTY.
ACCUSATION of Ritual murder by the Jews during Purim. Christians confiscated synagogues in ANTIOCH.
These were not hooligans but Church Fathers!
AUGUSTINE, JEROME, AMBROSE AND LESSER SAINTS AS ST. CHRYSOSTROM AND CYRIL, added to untruths the new ones that Jews were dishonest and prone to sexual perversions.

717 A.D.
Jews had to wear special yellow garb. Originated in Islam.

1012 A.D.
Emperor Henry II of Germany expels Jews from Mainz, the beginning of persecutions against Jews in Germany.

1096 A.D.
First Crusade. Crusaders massacre the Jews of the Rhineland.

1144 A.D.
First recorded blood libel. In Norwich it was alleged that the Jews had "bought a Christian child before Easter, tortured him with all the tortures wherewith our Lord was tortured and on Friday hanged him on a rood in hatred of our Lord." (England)
This notorious allegation that Jews murder non-Jews, especially Christians, in order to obtain blood for the Passover or other rituals is a complex of deliberate lies, trumped up accusations, and popular beliefs about the murder-lust of the Jews and their blood-thirstiness, based on the conception that Jews hate Christianity and mankind in general. It is combined with the delusion that Jews are in some way not human and must have recourse to special remedies and subterfuges in order to appear at least outwardly, like other men. The blood libel led to trials and massacres of Jews. Its origin is rooted in ancient almost primordial, concepts concerning the potency and energies of blood. It is one of the most terrible expressions of human cruelty and credulity. These blood rituals are expressly forbidden in Judaism. (See Leviticus 17;11 etc.)

1190 A.D.
Massacre of Jews in England.

1215 A.D.
The Jewish badge introduced.

1240 A.D.
Talmud burned in France.

1290 A.D.
Jews expelled from England.

1298 A.D.
Massacre of thousands in Germany, in 146 localities.

1306 A.D.
Expulsion from France.

1348 A.D.
JEWS blamed for the BLACK DEATH. Charge laid to the Jews that they POISONED the wells to kill CHRISTIANS.

1389 A.D.
MASSACRES in Bohemia, Spain.

1421 A.D.
270 JEWS BURNED AT THE STAKE. In the 14th and 15th centuries the Inquisition was more intense because the Church and State joined forces. Just being Jewish guaranteed persecution

1480 A.D.
Inquisition in Spain - Jews and Christians burned at the stake.

1483 A.D.
EXPULSIONS from Warsaw, Sicily, Lithuania, Portugal.

1492 A.D.
ALL JEWS EXPELLED FROM SPAIN.

1506 A.D.
Murders in Lisbon - 4000, "conversos", men, women, and children thrown from windows to street mobs below, due to preaching by *******ans against the Jews.

1510 A.D.
EXPELLED from Brandenburg, Germany.

1516 A.D.
Venice initiates the ghetto, the first in Christian Europe.

1544 A.D.
The Reformation. At the end of Martin Luther's life the German reformer vilified the Jews in violent pamphlets which could not fail to exert their influence. But because Calvinists were steeped in Old Testament theology, the Dutch people respected the Jews as "the Chosen" people; and were not anti-Semitic in their faith. The reformation was a time of turmoil as the Roman Church and feudalism lost their supremacy. There was a rising up of Nationhood and Luther was a German nationalist. The Talmud was seized and burned everywhere by Papal authority. Jews in Catholic countries and Polish Jews suffered greatly. Luther's anti-Semitic writings were later used in anti-Semitic literature.

1553 A.D.
Rome seized and burned the Talmud by order of the POPE.

1559 A.D.
12,000 copies of Talmud burned in Milan.

1569 A.D.
POPE PIUS V ordered all Jews out of the Papal states.

1593 A.D.
EXPULSIONS from Italy and Bavaria.

1598 A.D.
Ritual murder charge that sent three Jews to their deaths. Execution of the supposed guilty was done by QUARTERING. (In his book the "Birth of the Prison" Michel Foucault describes at length the quartering of a condemned man in 1757. It was done eventually by six horses instead of the four original ones and other means had to come in to play due to the failure even of six horses as the prisoners limbs were tied to ropes harnessed to the horses. Each horse pulled in a different direction. One horse fell to the ground unsuccessfully. Knives had to be used for severing...)

1614 A.D.
JEWS attacked and driven out of Frankfurt, Germany.

1624 A.D.
GHETTO established in Ferrara, Italy.

1648 A.D.
Leader of the Cossacks, in the Ukraine massacres 100,000 Jews and destroyed 300 communities.

1655 A.D.
Massacres of Jews in war against Sweden & Russia by Poland.

1715 A.D.
POPE PIUS VI issues edict against Jews.

1768 A.D.
20,000 Jews in Poland killed.

1805 A.D.
MASSACRE of Jews in Algeria.

1840 A.D.
BLOOD LIBEL in DAMASCUS.

1853 A.D.
BLOOD LIBEL in RUSSIA.

1858 A.D.
THE MORTARA CASE: Catholics abduct a 7 yr. old Jewish child. A Catholic servant baptized a Jewish child when the child was seriously ill and the church of Rome seized the child. Outcry had no effect on the POPE.

1879 A.D.
Word anti-Semitism comes into existence.

1881 A.D.
POGROMS BEGAN. The word is of Russian origin. It designates attack, accompanied by destruction, looting of property, murder, rape. There were three major outbreaks in Russia. The word designates more particularly the attacks carried out by the Christian population. Each pogrom surpassed the other in savagery.
KIEV, ODESSA; Here murder of whole families was a common occurrence. Partial data are available for 530 communities in which 887 major pogroms and 349 minor pogroms occurred. There were 60,000 dead and several times that many were wounded.

1882 A.D.
FIRST ANTI-JEWISH CONGRESS HELD. In Dresden, Germany.

1894 A.D.
ALFRED DREYFUS TRIAL in France. Details follow further on in this summary.

1903 A.D.
APPEARANCE of a new issue of the PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION. In Russia.
This spectre of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy aiming at reducing the Gentiles to slavery or extermination loomed up in the medieval Christian imagination and grew out of legends about well poisonings and plague spreading. It was concocted in Paris by an unknown author working for the Russian secret police. It was an alleged conference of the leaders of World Jewry. It was translated into all the world languages. In 1963 a Spanish edition was published. During World War II, the Protocols of the elders of Zion became an implicit justification for the GENOCIDE of the Jews and Nazi propaganda relied on them until the last days of the Third Reich. Smaller pamphlets of it have been distributed in B.C. 1983 published in California... Required reading in most Arab countries, in schools, to this day.

1905 A.D.
Russian pogroms continue. Also in Morocco, Ukraine, 300 dead.

1919 A.D.
3000 Jews killed in Hungarian pogroms.

1920 A.D.
Appearance of ADOLPH HITLER. Also Henry Ford the 1st believes the Protocols; and publishes anti-Jewish articles in his newspaper, the Dearborn Independent.

1925 A.D.
MEIN KAMPH appears. Hitler's Plan published in Germany.

1933 A.D.
HITLER appointed chancellor in Germany.

1935 A.D.
Hitler writes his Nuremberg Laws which lead to his Final Solution.

1938 A.D.
Burning in AUSTRIA & GERMANY of Synagogues. Jews sent to concentration camps. Beginnings of the Holocaust.

1939 A.D.
Germany overruns Poland.

1940 A.D.
Gassing, shootings in Polish Ghettos (Jewish).

1941 A.D.
EXPULSION of Jews from the German Reich to Poland. Riots against Jews in Iraq.

1942 A.D.
Mass transports of Jews to Belgium & Holland.

1944 A.D.
EXTERMINATION OF HUNGARIAN JEWS.

1945 A.D.
HOLOCAUST Final Count: 6,000,000 Jews slaughtered.

1946 A.D.
Pogroms in Poland - 42 Jews murdered.

1948 A.D.
BIRTH OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL. Also Jewish intellectuals shot in Russia.

1952 A.D.
Jews murdered byCommunists, and others disappear. Prague trials. Murder of Yiddish intellectuals in Russia and many sent to work camps..

1956 A.D.
Jews expelled out of EGYPT.

1967 A.D.
SIX DAY WAR. Also new publication of Elders of Zion in Arabic.

1968 A.D.
Emigration of last remaining Jews in Poland.

1969 A.D.
JEWS EXECUTED IN IRAQ.

1970 A.D.
Beginning of imprisonment in Russia of PRISONERS OF CONSCIENCE. ("Refuseniks")

1980 A.D.
Russian imprisonments carry on throughout the 70's to the 80's.

1982 A.D.
War in Lebanon begins after many years of terrorist attacks against the Jews in the Upper Galilee area from the vantage point of Beaufort Castle. Many Lebanese killed over long period of time, but was ignored by the News Media. War in Lebanon gets slanted coverage.

1983 A.D.
Word from Christians in Israel that the PLO planned their next battleground to be Canada via Quebec. Documented proof that Russia planned in 1982 to attack Israel.

CONCLUSION:
The above catalogue is only the tip of the iceberg! One would think that anti-Jewish atrocities would have ended with the nightmare of the Holocaust. One-third of the world's Jews were murdered by an ungodly German conspiracy that had accused the Jews of "conspiracy". It is not often emphasized that two-thirds of the world's Jews survived; and that due to the faithfulness of their G-d. God has again, as in times past, protected them from total extermination, as He promised. (the Book of Esther, and Jeremiah 31:35-37)
The Holocaust was the final catalyst which led to the re-creation of the State of Israel in 1948. But we have to go back at the very least to the DREYFUS CASE to understand the long range process.

Alfred Dreyfus was the son of a wealthy Alsatian family in France. He entered the French Army in 1892 and became a Captain, and the only Jew. He was framed by a fellow officer for allegedly giving secrets to the enemy, arrested and tried for treason. He was sentenced to life imprisonment. Eventually Emile Zola took up the fight proclaiming the man's innocence and published an open letter to the President of France titled "I ACCUSE." Dreyfus was eventually declared unjustly convicted by the Parliament of France. The injustice was totally motivated by Jew-hatred.

During the course of the trumped-up trial a Jewish journalist became involved; and he was the man that was to lead the Jews back to their Land. His name was THEODORE HERZL (1860 - 1904 A.D.) and he called European Jewry together in Basle, Switzerland in 1897 at the now famous "First World Zionist Congress". There in 1897 he publicly predicted to friend and foe alike that the Jews would be back in "the Land" of Palestine "within 50 years". In 1947, exactly fifty years later the United Nations passed the "Resolution For the Partition of Palestine", which lead to the declaration of Statehood on May 14,1948.

With the shouts of "death" to the Jews still ringing in his ears from the Dreyfus Trial, Herzl became convinced that the only solution was the mass exodus of the Jews from their present places of residence to a territory of their own... So out of the suffering of the Dreyfus family came the State of Israel. Herzl became the father of Political Zionism and founder of the World Zionist organization.

Herzl was born in Budapest. He left a German students society in 1883 in protest against his first encounter with anti-Semitism. He came across this "Jewish problem" again and again in his life. Although he graduated in 1884 with a doctorate of law he left the legal profession and became a famous writer. He wrote many literary works, some of them plays.

In 1891 he became the Paris correspondent of a Vienna newspaper. He pursued politics and organized the first Zionist Congress is Basle in 1897. (In 1960, Israel issued a centenary stamp with a well known painting of Herzl on the bridge at Basle.) The World Zionist organization was formed. He was chairman and remained so for the next five congresses. He knew Great Britain would be the deciding factor in the realization of Zionist aims. In 1917 the Balfour Declaration became the launching-pad for the founding of the modern Jewish state.

Herzl did not have an easy task. Even his own people were difficult on this issue. His heart failed in 1904. He did not live to see the creation of Israel in 1948. But in 1949 he was laid to rest, reinterred in a place that was named in his honour Mount Herzl, in Jerusalem. A Herzl monument stands nearby. The anniversary of his death on the 20th of Tammuz was declared a National Memorial Day in Israel. In the April 1983 issue of the NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, following a report on Jerusalem there is a picture that could be titled: "The sorrow of the Jewish People". There are three young Israeli ladies, soldiers, who happen to be very beautiful standing or kneeling at the Herzl Tomb site where there are three new graves...the first soldiers to die in the 1982 conflict in Lebanon.

1983 was the 50th anniversary of Hitler's rise to power; since he was made chancellor in 1933. There was an extensive report on this subject in the April 1983 issue of the Jerusalem Post. Their man in Bonn stated: "There has been no substantial break with the past. Therefore West German Democracy must continue to be subject to question by Germans more than by anyone else." The Post also offered these words which are worth contemplating. Perhaps you never considered this. I had not...

"The destruction that Hitler brought on his own people ranks only after the mass murder he committed on the Jews and the destruction and death rained upon the Soviet Union. He left Germany not only physically ruined, but stripped of its' self respect, ashamed of its' place in human history, uncertain of its' identity, seeking refuge in the compulsive reconstruction of material damage."
They also mentioned...
"The war Hitler unleashed and the organized mass murder that was a central part of his design cost the lives of 40 million human beings in Europe alone. Among them 6,000,000 Jews - two-thirds of the Jews in Europe. More than 6,000,000 of his own people also died and others were left hungry."
God promised Abraham: "I will bless those who bless you (and your descendants); and I will curse those who curse you" (Genesis 12:1-3) We can see that the Germans have paid an awful price for allowing this man to lead them down a path contrary to Scripture, by declaring them to be a super race. The man who wanted to obtain the whole world, gained nothing but eternal damnation. He and those who followed him lost everything.
What about Canada?
Most of us would be quick to say that our hands are clean. A truly shocking indictment of our role in the Holocaust can be found in the book "None is Too Many". This title was taken from a statement made by an immigration official when a delegation of Jews went to Ottawa in 1939 to ask: "How many Jews will Canada take in?" The Immigration Minister answered "None is too many".

The authors, Irving Abella and Harold Troper, published this book in 1982 and was on the Canadian Best Sellers List. They received an award early in 1983 for it. It is thoroughly researched and documented proof that our top bureaucrat in the Immigration Department, Fred Blair, a professing Christian, wanted no Jews in Canada and did everything he could in the way of roadblocks to prevent it. In studying it I find I want to scream with the agony of our shame.

MacKenzie King didn't want them. Perhaps he was too busy talking to his dead mother and his dead dog as he gazed into his crystal ball (all told in his published diaries). The authors record that Canada's Prime Minister thought Hitler had a good face and that he was sweet. King was deathly afraid of what Quebec would do if he gave in and allowed in refugees. The French -Canadian press was very hostile to Jews (Le Devoir). There was also a very vocal fascist Party in Quebec; headed by Adrianne Arcand.

Blair had the opportunity to rescue thousands, but wouldn't budge on his restrictive policy. He just didn't want any Jewish immigrants.

Lester Pearson said that we didn't have a boat. Ottawa would not listen either to the pleas of George Vanier; even though he was Canadian Ambassador to France and was there on the scene.

Conservative Robert Manion didn't want any either. In the midst of all of the obstruction the Toronto Globe & Mail asked at one point "Does Canada stand for anything?" Manion wanted no Jews as long as Canadians were unemployed. Ernest LaPointe of Quebec and the Le Devoir newspaper and Vincent Massey of External Affairs wanted Jews kept out of Canada. Massey was a fringe member of the Pro-German anti-Semitic Cliveden set centred around Lord and Lady Astor in London; where Vincent was Canadian High Commissioner.

We had one social worker on the scene and her name was Charlotte Whitton, outspoken Mayor of Ottawa. She fiercely fought not to have Jewish children here as she favoured British children. She led a movement to evacuate endangered British mothers and children. The Canadian Jewish Congress saw her as an enemy of Jewish immigration. Oscar Cohen said she "almost broke up the inaugural meeting of the congress on Refugees by her insistent opposition and very apparent anti-Semitism."

The saddest story I have ever read in my life is the whole chapter from the Abella book titled "The children that never came." It takes care of any pride we may have in being Canadians. It is documented evidence 25 pages in length of continuous pleading on behalf of officials in places like France and Poland to take children whose lives were in immediate danger. Blair's hard hearted efforts lead to the declaration in the end of that chapter that reads: "There were no more schemes to help...save the refugee children. None were needed." By the time of the allied invasion of France in June 1944 most of these children had been murdered. NOT ONE of them had made it to Canada! They had been talking at times about as many as 5000.

I am happy to report that good has come out of the publishing of this book. The authors report that Lloyd Axworthy, current Minister of Immigration, apologized for the behaviour of predecessors and promised that it would never happen again. But also having read some papers by these authors prior to publication, Ron Atkey, former Conservative Minister of Immigration, took the responsibility and opened the doors to the BOAT PEOPLE because he did not want to be known as another Frederick Blair.

In "Bridges for Peace", the 1983 issue from Tulsa, Oklahoma we read about the state of anti-Semitism as in this day, media coverage is slanted.

"While some would have you believe the world is becoming a better place and anti-Semitism is on the wane, I believe that careful observation will prove otherwise. In the last two years, we have seen a growing double standard used by the media in reporting events concerning Israel. And as we saw this past summer in Greece, Italy, and France, this very distorted, even false media reporting about Israel's involvement in Lebanon resulted in attacks against local Jewish communities solely because they were Jewish; regardless of their affiliation with Israel. For example: In France a video tape of a Palestinian boy holding his bleeding, dying sister was repeatedly shown as the result of an aggressive Jewish attack on civilians in Lebanon. Local Frenchmen, incensed by this news, staged an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish march which culminated in the bombing of synagogues and Jewish owned businesses killing many. It was later proven that this video tape was six years old and showing the destruction of the Tel-Zatar refugee camp by the SYRIANS in 1976. Jews were NOT even involved but the ugly head of Anti-Semitism had already shown itself."
AND SO IT NEVER SEEMS TO END.
But it will. One day the Bible says we shall take the hem of the Jews' skirt and go with them to Zion because we know God is with them. Zechariah tells us that the Lord will come and place His feet on the Mount of Olives. He will fight for His people Israel against all the nations of the world. All the land of Israel will dwell in safety and peace when the Messiah comes. He will rule and reign from Jerusalem, the Son of David, sitting on David's throne. (Read 2 Samuel 7:11-16; and Psalm 2:6-8;and 89:20-37)
Regardless of Israel's sins of the past the Lord will forgive, cleanse, and restore (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
Christians throughout the world are awakening to a call to stand by the side of the Jewish people. Beginning in 1979 Christians in Jerusalem rallied to her side when the governments of the World began to pull their embassies out of Jerusalem in fear because of the Arab oil power. The "International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem" was established. With people like Jan Willem Van Der Hoeven and the Comfort Zion ministry of Merv and Merla Watson, Jews are beginning to be provoked to jealousy. They are watching Christian love in action; and hope is being reborn when they see 5000 Christians celebrating during the Jewish "Feast of Tabernacles", dancing with joy on Mount Zion and supporting them in their hour of need.

If Canada's Joe Clark had kept his promise to move our embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv, he would have done better. Six months after breaking his promise he ceased to be Prime Minister; and twelve months later he was removed as Leader of the Progressive-Conservative Party.
Coincidence? God hears our promises; even "election promises". The Scripture says God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse her. Every nation that has persecuted the Jews has, in the long run, inherited the negative side of God's promise to Abram: "and I will curse those who curse you (and your descendants)."

SO IN CONCLUSION:
Anti-Semitism is a venomous condition of the heart of man and not just prejudice, hatred or discrimination. Jealousy and envy of the Jew more than anything else seems to be the main root of this condition. It is a spiritual problem. But Jeremiah said it best and it is truth from God's Word... "The heart is deceitful, and desperately wicked; who can know it?".

Anti-Semitism engages man in a conduct that is: inconceivable, unbelievable, shocking, grotesque, incomprehensible, unthinkable, inhumane and intolerable.

This information has been gleaned from Alan Lazerte's course on anti-Semitism given at Fraserview Assembly, January, February and March 1983 as Director of the Canadian Friends of the International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:
Buy Now !

Bridges for Peace-current news direct from Christians in Israel through Tulsa.
The Jerusalem Post - current news direct from Jews in Israel.
The ISRAEL POCKET LIBRARY BOOK ON ANTI-SEMITISM.
Canadian Book "None is Too Many", Irving Abella and Harold Troper.
Friends of the Christian Embassy Canada, Israel Report.
Jews' God and History; by Max I. Dimont. A Signet Book.
The information from this course was a shock to most of us; it was an eye opener in many ways, especially regarding the Christians persecution of the Jew; which contributed to the Nazi attempt to totally exterminate them. This essay was written as a requirement of taking seriously Alan's attempt to put the course together. He did his part as teacher excellently. God has chosen well. I was eager to learn. At Alan' suggestion this essay is being printed to circulate to others who may not have a chance to attend the lectures. It is also printed to cement my own vow before God to bridge the gap and make amends to the Jew for the way Christians, the Canadian Government and others have failed them.

I dedicate this to the children that never came; and to my brother who died trying to stop a mad man that was on the loose in Germany.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TheHappiestBoyInTheWorld:
Oh, shit. I guess when he quotes common stereotypes it's fine, but when Suze does it then it's not original or researched enough. My bad!</font>

i didn't comment on what suze introduced into the discussion

i commented on you being stupid

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
i didn't comment on what suze introduced into the discussion

i commented on you being stupid</font>

You can't just look at one part of the discussion--it's all related. He attacked Suze, and then turned around and did practically the same thing that she did. How is that not hypocritical?

Reading helps.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
With respect to the nature your thread, I just felt that you crossed certain lines of decency by directing your attention towards suze.
</font>
I think he was "letting Suze have the floor" because she's a Jew and that means she would probably have some words to contribute to this thread from the experience of BEING one. It was probably niether a good thing, nor a bad, just that he expected her to have something to say about it. Which she has done. Copiously. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TheHappiestBoyInTheWorld:
He attacked Suze...</font>

if you'll notice, he attacks everybody http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

i'm not saying he's right to attack suze, i'm saying he's right about the 'penny-pinching' stereotype

that is all

God... next page? Do I get to be top of page three? *Crosses fingers*. : )


Come on, people. Stop arguing. Can't we all just get along? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/mad.gif

I wasn't arguing that his point was wrong--I'm just sick of everyone taking every chance they get to insult and demean Suze, even if it's obvious that she's put a lot of thought and effort into what she posts.

My grammy didn't have time to tell jokes. She was too busy getting raped by Cossacks.

--Woody Allen, "Annie Hall"

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TheHappiestBoyInTheWorld:
I wasn't arguing that his point was wrong--I'm just sick of everyone taking every chance they get to insult and demean Suze, even if it's obvious that she's put a lot of thought and effort into what she posts.</font>


^not?

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
My grammy didn't have time to tell jokes. She was too busy getting raped by Cossacks.

--Woody Allen, "Annie Hall"</font>

what do u think of all that history shit you posted anyways?

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
With respect to the nature your thread, I just felt that you crossed certain lines of decency by directing your attention towards suze. However, since it seems like I pretty much blew this out of proportion, I think it's safe to say that it's most likely a case of transferred aggression that feuled my comment. Afterall, suze has been getting alot of shit, lately- er always.
</font>

the thing that annoys me most about your objection is the very fact that it's in regards to a jewish issue.

if i had made a thread about Nintendo games and added the tagline "mark le drew, the floor is yours", would that have been offensive?

if we're ever gonna get rid of racism, we need to stop making an issue out of it. i associate suze with Judaism cos she's a Jew. SUZE IS A JEW. it's not a dirty word.

i'm sure she doesn't take offence in being called a jew...so it sure as hell shouldn't bother you<font color=black>

[This message has been edited by scouse_dave (edited 05-09-2002).]

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by nevermind:
what do u think of all that history shit you posted anyways?</font>

lol. sorry. funniest post evar kris.

umm what do i think of it? i think it shows a large and alarming trend of antisemitism and it shows what happens when jews don't have any place to immigrate to *COUGH*

well america's a place to immigrate to too i guess. i still remember in fiddler on the roof when some of them are planning on going to chicago and new york i'm all "smart move!"

but when that one daughter says she's going to krakow i go "no don't go there!"

lol. sorry. oh. but still...my grandmother once told me, she grew up in massachusetts i guess in the '30's. yeah. and...yeah. the stores had signs on them saying "no dogs or jews allowed" http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
lol. sorry. funniest post evar kris.

umm what do i think of it? i think it shows a large and alarming trend of antisemitism and it shows what happens when jews don't have any place to immigrate to *COUGH*

well america's a place to immigrate to too i guess. i still remember in fiddler on the roof when some of them are planning on going to chicago and new york i'm all "smart move!"

but when that one daughter says she's going to krakow i go "no don't go there!"

lol. sorry. oh. but still...my grandmother once told me, she grew up in massachusetts i guess in the '30's. yeah. and...yeah. the stores had signs on them saying "no dogs or jews allowed" http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif</font>

oh yeah. yente was planning on going to the holy land right?

i haven't read all the stories, i've read a few, but in the actual version i think tevye and his whole family, you know the rest of his daughters, immigrated to the holy land too. and all this bad stuff happened. golde died of a heart attack, one daughter committed suicide, the other.. i forget. but tevye ends up an old miserable land in his homeland . http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif sad. i like him going to america much better :[

Here's a quote by Benjamin Frankling at the Continental Congress to provide a historical and political context of American anti-semitism

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.

"For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, they call Palestine. But, Gentlemen, should the world today give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some cogent reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race.

"If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution in less than 200 years they will have swarmed in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and jeopardized our liberty.

"If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them sustenance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, Gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, Gentlemen, are Asiatics; let them be born where they will, or how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even though they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots.

"Jews are Asiatics, they are a menace to this country if permitted entrance and should be excluded by this Constitution."



------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
Here's a quote by Benjamin Frankling at the Continental Congress to provide a historical and political context of American anti-semitism

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.

"For over 1700 years the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, they call Palestine. But, Gentlemen, should the world today give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some cogent reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race.

"If you do not exclude them from these United States, in this Constitution in less than 200 years they will have swarmed in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and jeopardized our liberty.

"If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them sustenance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, Gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, Gentlemen, are Asiatics; let them be born where they will, or how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even though they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots.

"Jews are Asiatics, they are a menace to this country if permitted entrance and should be excluded by this Constitution."

</font>

i'm pretty sure that's an urban legend

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
the thing that annoys me most about your objection is the very fact that it's in regards to a jewish issue.

if i had made a thread about Nintendo games and added the tagline "mark le drew, the floor is yours", would that have been offensive?

if we're ever gonna get rid of racism, we need to stop making an issue out of it. i associate suze with Judaism cos she's a Jew. SUZE IS A JEW. it's not a dirty word.

i'm sure she doesn't take offence in being called a jew...so it sure as hell shouldn't bother you
[This message has been edited by scouse_dave (edited 05-09-2002).]</font>

To my knowledge, Mark Le Drew dosen't elicit the same kind of sick retribution from ill-breds the way Suze's does. So, from my perspective, the insult lies only in the context of the recent threads dedicated to her dishonor, and it's wasn't a reference to identity.

but I did appreciate your little rant on racism, it was really... neat-o. Yes, fight the good fight.

------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
i'm pretty sure that's an urban legend</font>

if it is, then history is as corrupt as the present, which could very well be the case.


------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:

Ok, that's research... 50% there. Try independent thought now (that WAS the most important part).</font>

<font color=#007AAA>She can't do it, she never has been able to.


------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>She can't do it, she never has been able to.


</font>

</font>
Nice to see someone think similarly.
Her research is good, but very one-sided. I would expect the same from Sierra Club members against nuclear energy and Christians against Satanists, though... all one-sided, omitting anything pro the other side completely.

<font color=#007AAA>All Suze does is rely on other people's arguements to make her feel like she can't be argued with. Like I've said before, she's a well-read dumbass.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
Nice to see someone think similarly.
Her research is good, but very one-sided. I would expect the same from Sierra Club members against nuclear energy and Christians against Satanists, though... all one-sided, omitting anything pro the other side completely.</font>

Oh, give me a break. One-sided? There is barely another side to the argument. Throughout history, Jews have been disliked by just about everybody.

Every single Jewish holiday consists of, "We were persecuted, we survived, lets eat."

------------------
I'm a member of the thought police and the Junior Anti Sex League. Double think that, BITCH!

AIM: ZeppieLed

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>All Suze does is rely on other people's arguements to make her feel like she can't be argued with. Like I've said before, she's a well-read dumbass.

</font>


what the fuck is your problem, brendan sweeeney. this issue is not a subject of ARGUMENT. one can not ARGUE about whether or not jews have been hated throughout the history of the world. it is a FACT. and i want to post other sources i fucking well can. and i'm not anything close to a 'well-read' dumbass. people LEARN shit from things they read. that's the whole point of learning. you don't learn things by simply sitting in an empty room and trying to figure things out for yourself. that's bullshit.

every fucking fact you regurgitate is something you got from another source. i'm just being a little more honest about where my 'knowlege' comes from.

shawna: not every holiday necessarily. umm, chanukah and purim are like that but they're not major holidays. out of the three major holidays only one is like that: passover and...it's more about redemption and renewal then...well maybe not MORE but definitely as much

umm. you know. sukkot, rosh hashanah, yom kippur, etc, etc, etc, tu bish'vat or yeah. a whole bunch.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by kypper:
</font>
Nice to see someone think similarly.
Her research is good, but very one-sided. I would expect the same from Sierra Club members against nuclear energy and Christians against Satanists, though... all one-sided, omitting anything pro the other side completely.</font>

</font>

okay, what other side is there to this question. people have hated jews because they're evil? because they're bad people? because they deserve it? because they really do eat babies?

no really. i want to know what this 'other side' is that i seem to be incapable of comprehending.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>All Suze does is rely on other people's arguements to make her feel like she can't be argued with. Like I've said before, she's a well-read dumbass.

</font>

</font> oh yeah, and i posted my own words on it and got accused of being a babbling idiot that didn't know anything.


i believe in the scapegoat theory? is that wrong? do you want me to come up with my own idea all by my widdle self that makes no sense? you'd rather have an argument that's wrong and your own than have an argument that's right and formulated by someone else? whatever. seriously.

if i posted something on how the universe started am i incapable of independent thought? or am i simplya ffirming that some people know more than i do?

A "well-read dumbass"? Come on, Brendan. Suze is thoughtful and intelligent. I'm disappointed to see you fall in behind the "I Hate Suze For No Reason" crowd. If you're looking to pick on people for being dumb, you could do a lot better than Suze.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TheHappiestBoyInTheWorld:
A "well-read dumbass"? Come on, Brendan. Suze is thoughtful and intelligent. I'm disappointed to see you fall in behind the "I Hate Suze For No Reason" crowd. If you're looking to pick on people for being dumb, you could do a lot better than Suze.</font>

<font color=#007AAA>Actually Ian, I hate her for many reasons not the least of which was annoying me on AIM constantly until I blocked her. I'm the one who started the "I HATE SUZE" club, most of these other people are just pretenders. She is intelligent and has the capability to be thoughtful but her posts are so mindless and so scattered that it shows her true laziness. Second, she started multiple "I hate brendan sweeney" posts when I fought with her over Israel's inhumanity towards Palestine. She can't handle it when people argue with her about that subject, and I think that's rather juvenile. Thirdly, she posts enormous cut-and-pasted articles for us to read during arguments which just makes it even harder to understand where she's coming from. Finally, she seems to think still that if they teach a political idea in textbooks it makes it true. She needs to learn how to break those conceptions. I'm being mean to her so that she might do it.

You of all people should know I always have a reason for hating people. I'm disappointed to find out you think that little of me. I'm not surprised, but I am dissappointed.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Rhinoceros (edited 05-11-2002).]

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>All Suze does is rely on other people's arguements to make her feel like she can't be argued with. Like I've said before, she's a well-read dumbass.

</font>
</font>
There's no such thing as independent thought, and anyone contributing under the false belief that it does exist is just drunk on self importance, egotistical, or fucking pathetic. I'd rather read someone's research much more than looking for facts buried under some fag's egotisitcal bragging. Lighten up, you don't have to sweat gravy


------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>Actually Ian, I hate her for many reasons not the least of which was annoying me on AIM constantly until I blocked her. I'm the one who started the "I HATE SUZE" club, most of these other people are just pretenders. She is intelligent and has the capability to be thoughtful but her posts are so mindless and so scattered that it shows her true laziness. Second, she started multiple "I hate brendan sweeney" posts when I fought with her over Israel's inhumanity towards Palestine. She can't handle it when people argue with her about that subject, and I think that's rather juvenile. Thirdly, she posts enormous cut-and-pasted articles for us to read during arguments which just makes it even harder to understand where she's coming from. Finally, she seems to think still that if they teach the idea in textbooks it makes it true. She needs to learn how to break those conceptions. I'm being mean to her so that she might do it.

You of all people should know I always have a reason for hating people. I'm disappointed to find out you think that little of me. I'm not surprised, but I am dissappointed.

</font>

for one, i know my greatest flaw is that i get very angry when people say things that i disagree with on a completely basic level. i have very strong feelings for the zionist cause, and,, i dunno. it just pisses me off when people act as if it's wrong.

two, as far as the cut-and-pasting thing goes, i've already told you why you're dumb as far as that goes

three, you really hold a fucking grudge. my grudges tend to last ten minutes. yours seem to last ten years.

four, ian knows me better than you do so you should listen to him when he tells you not to be an idiot :[

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
every fucking fact you regurgitate is something you got from another source. i'm just being a little more honest about where my 'knowlege' comes from.</font>

<font color=#007AAA>All the facts are but not my arguments.

And this post is asking why people hated Jews, and I didn't even read it. I was mostly just talking about your other idiotic threads recently.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>All the facts are but not my arguments.

And this post is asking why people hated Jews, and I didn't even read it. I was mostly just talking about your other idiotic threads recently.

</font>


ur stupid. not me. remember that.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 13:
There's no such thing as independent thought, and anyone contributing under the false belief that it does exist is just drunk on self importance, egotistical, or fucking pathetic. I'd rather read someone's research much more than looking for facts buried under some fag's egotisitcal bragging. Lighten up, you don't have to sweat gravy</font>

<font color=#007AAA>You dipshit, I'm not talking about using "facts" I'm talking about using opinions. But then again, I'm not talking about this thread or even participating in the argument.

Oh and a note on your stupidity, if you take the phrase "independent thought" literally then there's no real hope for you in the first place.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:

ur stupid. not me. remember that.</font>

<font color=#007AAA>I thought you were leaving?



------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>You dipshit, I'm not talking about using "facts" I'm talking about using opinions. But then again, I'm not talking about this thread or even participating in the argument.

Oh and a note on your stupidity, if you take the phrase "independent thought" literally then there's no real hope for you in the first place.

</font>

or maybe you just didn't understand what (s)he said

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>I thought you were leaving?

</font>

</font> i told you. i have a bad temper. i've also told julio i'm never talking to him again close to 50 times.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
or maybe you just didn't understand what (s)he said</font>

<font color=#007AAA>That's probably true. Of course, like most "intellectuals" on this board his point is vague at best.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Rhinoceros (edited 05-11-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Mr. Rhinoceros (edited 05-11-2002).]

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
</font> i told you. i have a bad temper. i've also told julio i'm never talking to him again close to 50 times. </font>

<font color=#007AAA>You can't use "bad temper" as an excuse for anything. Perhaps you should learn to control it.



------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>You can't use "bad temper" as an excuse for anything. Perhaps you should learn to control it.

</font>

</font>

my bad temper is not an *EXCUSE* for deciding i was never talking to julio again or going to netphoria again. it is a *REASON* jeez. dude. maybe you need a thinking cap. or some vitamin juice. or something.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>You dipshit, I'm not talking about using "facts" I'm talking about using opinions. But then again, I'm not talking about this thread or even participating in the argument.

Oh and a note on your stupidity, if you take the phrase "independent thought" literally then there's no real hope for you in the first place.

</font>

I mentioned independent thought only as a reference to your conversation with Kypper, which by the way, is a fucking insightful meeting of the minds. So, way to get sidetracked. Though you decline to contribute anything worthwhile to the thread, you still take it upon yourself to point out the faults of someone else's posting habits? Do you really need that extra boost to your ego? Get a fucking life. Stop underestimating people's contributions... and your health for that matter.

edit- now that the heated moment has passed, I guitily plead to sufferring from a bad temper as well. Though relying on emotion shouldn't hinder communication, since it still conveys information- that being that I dislike you- i should still avoid it since it only distracts the thin skinned.


------------------
http://downwardsign.homestead.com/files/hiero.jpg

[This message has been edited by 13 (edited 05-11-2002).]