View Full Version : fuck israel


jenny4ever
04-04-2002, 08:29 AM

Crippler
04-04-2002, 08:32 AM
<font color="aquamarine">Yep, them Palestinians are completely in the right!

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

obscured01
04-04-2002, 10:58 AM
grr! *shakes fist at you*

Edit : the shaking of the fist is aimed at Jenny

------------------
~*Sarah Kimberly*~

...and the tragic and
romantic (http://members.door.net/skylab) ascent...

AIM: Gazing Iscariot

[This message has been edited by obscured01 (edited 04-04-2002).]

Tom
04-04-2002, 11:13 AM
I agree. God, this shit has to end.

------------------
-Tom

Empire Cola- What would you rather be full of?

obscured01
04-04-2002, 11:14 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Tom:
I agree. God, this shit has to end.

</font>

That's not going to make it end.

------------------
~*Sarah Kimberly*~

...and the tragic and
romantic (http://members.door.net/skylab) ascent...

AIM: Gazing Iscariot

sickbadthing
04-04-2002, 11:55 AM
more like fuck religious zealotry.

oh hey the president is on...

EITHER YOU'RE WITH FASCISM OR YOU'RE WITH THE TERRORISTS! YAY! TOO MUCH FREEDOM LEADS TO TERRORISM!

MisterSquishyHalo
04-04-2002, 01:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
</font>


Fuck arafat as well.

In fact fuck the middle east.

heh

Samsa
04-04-2002, 01:41 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by MisterSquishyHalo:

Fuck arafat as well.

In fact fuck the middle east.

heh</font>

*would gladly fuck quite a few middle-eastern men*

Crippler
04-04-2002, 02:00 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sickbadthing:
more like fuck religious zealotry.

oh hey the president is on...

EITHER YOU'RE WITH FASCISM OR YOU'RE WITH THE TERRORISTS! YAY! TOO MUCH FREEDOM LEADS TO TERRORISM!</font>

<font color="aquamarine">And I suppose you assume the opposite.

Krafty
04-07-2002, 12:24 AM
fuck continuing conflict.
conflict, when necessary should be breif.
and violence, if at all, should be ephemeral.

gloomy0
04-07-2002, 09:13 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sickbadthing:

EITHER YOU'RE WITH FASCISM OR YOU'RE WITH THE TERRORISTS! YAY! TOO MUCH FREEDOM LEADS TO TERRORISM!</font>

Sig worthy.

Sacred Age Of Innocence
04-07-2002, 09:23 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
*would gladly fuck quite a few middle-eastern men*</font>

Have you had your eyes cheked recently?

Tom
04-07-2002, 10:54 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by MisterSquishyHalo:

Fuck arafat as well.

</font>

What do you mean as well?
Arafat is the asshole here. He's the one who has the power to stop all this terrorism shit but he won't, because he thinks making peace is a sign of weakness.

------------------
-Tom

Empire Cola- What would you rather be full of?

Nothing/everything
04-07-2002, 12:44 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by obscured01:
That's not going to make it end.

</font>

Agreed.
God's not going to end this shit.

Mirror_Untrue
04-07-2002, 12:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Krafty:
fuck continuing conflict.
conflict, when necessary should be breif.
and violence, if at all, should be ephemeral.</font>

If only.



------------------
Love, peace and harmony?
Love, peace and harmony?
Oh, very nice
very nice
very nice
very nice
... but maybe in the next world

Lunadisarm
04-07-2002, 06:11 PM
Dude, fuck everything.

NinjaTurtle
04-07-2002, 06:46 PM
maybe we should stop helping any of them and let them all die out, then we can take over and create "New America".

------------------
Close this wOrld, txEn eht nEpo
aim - Tsai707

Will
04-07-2002, 06:51 PM
i stumble in the hallway
outside her bedroom door
i hear her call out to me
i hear the fear in her voice
she pulls her covers tighter
i press against the door-

------------------
http://will.envy.nu/nip.jpg (http://www.emote.org/metok)

The Patient
04-07-2002, 07:07 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
i stumble in the hallway
outside her bedroom door
i hear her call out to me
i hear the fear in her voice
she pulls her covers tighter
i press against the door-

</font>

I WILL BE WITH HER TONIGHT

jenny4ever
04-07-2002, 11:03 PM
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.

Arafat once won the fucking nobel peace prize.

they fucking had their land *TAKEN* from them without any real justification.

relaxor!
04-07-2002, 11:05 PM
Hitler was Time magazine's Man of the Year 2 times in the 30's

right now, I think that Israel is in the right for taking some action, though maybe not military action.

but then should Israel have been placed where it currently is in the 40's? that's a whole different question

ZERO
04-07-2002, 11:07 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by relaxor!:
Hitler was Time magazine's Man of the Year 2 times in the 30's

right now, I think that Israel is in the right for taking some action, though maybe not military action.

but then should Israel have been placed where it currently is in the 40's? that's a whole different question</font>

Yeh, it's only taking some action. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

smiling politely
04-07-2002, 11:09 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.

Arafat once won the fucking nobel peace prize.

they fucking had their land *TAKEN* from them without any real justification.

</font>

You should be prohibited from discussing your opinions on this matter openly.

Mayfuck
04-07-2002, 11:09 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.

Arafat once won the fucking nobel peace prize.

they fucking had their land *TAKEN* from them without any real justification.

</font>

If Palestinians had access to nuclear weapons, you think they'd once hesitate to use it on Israel?

And go read a history book, idiot.

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 04-07-2002).]

relaxor!
04-07-2002, 11:12 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ZERO:
Yeh, it's only taking some action. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif</font>

yes, well.
I don't think military action is right, but it is crucial to talk to Arafat right now. and I do think that it is wrong to just try to force their way into the compound, but I'm guessing this wasn't just the first step

PkPhuoko
04-07-2002, 11:22 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.

</font>

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa

ZERO
04-07-2002, 11:37 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
If Palestinians had access to nuclear weapons, you think they'd once hesitate to use it on Israel?

And go read a history book, idiot.

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 04-07-2002).]</font>

You seem to know a lot about the whole situation. Why not tell us why Sharon is so favoured now within his country?

[This message has been edited by ZERO (edited 04-07-2002).]

your skies are mine
04-07-2002, 11:58 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.

but Israel hasn't killed "waaaaaaaaaaaaay" more Arabs than Arabs have killed Israelis over the years.

Arafat once won the fucking nobel peace prize.

so did Yitzakh Rabin(sp?) (that was his name wasn't it? Israeli PM who got assasinated) for the same thing, at the same time, I believe)


they fucking had their land *TAKEN* from them without any real justification.

oh dear, someone hasn't been doing their history homework

</font>


<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by relaxor!:


right now, I think that Israel is in the right for taking some action, though maybe not military action.

fuck yeah, I'm with Israel, though I ain't exactly over-keen on their over-aggressive methods

but then should Israel have been placed where it currently is in the 40's? that's a whole different question

sorry mate, but that's not exactly 100% correct. Have a look at this History of "Palestine" (http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/palestine.html)

it's belonged to the Jews for centuries (IMO), greedy land-grabbing Arab fucks should get the fuck out.

</font>



[This message has been edited by your skies are mine (edited 04-07-2002).]

obscured01
04-08-2002, 12:18 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
And go read a history book, idiot.
</font>

------------------
~*Sarah Kimberly*~

...and the tragic and
romantic (http://members.door.net/skylab) ascent...

AIM: Gazing Iscariot

relaxor!
04-08-2002, 12:25 AM
I don't think either are exactly in the right

after WW1, the Ottoman Empire split up and many smaller states were established. One such State, Palestine, was home to many Jewish people, but also was home to many Muslims and other organizations.
After WW2, with Jews fleeing Europe, many more returned to Palestine. The resident (non-Jewish) Palestinians were pissed that so many Jews were coming into their country.
then, in 1947, the UN divided Palestine into 2 sections, Palestine and the state of Israel. Most of the Jewish population that had occupied Palestine moved into Israel. The Palestinians were pissed again that their country had been cut in half and that they only had half of their land. In 1948, Israel, seeking more land, invaded Palestine and then occupied 77% of what was formerly Palestine. then in 1967, Israel again invaded Palestine and annexed the rest of their land, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
however, the UN condemned this act and demanded that Israel return the West bank and the Gaza Strip to Palestine, which it did.
since then they have been uneasy, and the rest of the Arab world has resented an essentially western-type power (Israel).

so basically, I can see why Palestine is pissed

Best Looking Boy
04-08-2002, 12:25 AM
Fucking jews.

Best Looking Boy
04-08-2002, 12:26 AM
None of you know shit, you're a bunch of fucking kids. Shut up.

relaxor!
04-08-2002, 12:32 AM
yeah


god damnit

smiling politely
04-08-2002, 12:48 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by relaxor!:
In 1948, Israel, seeking more land, invaded Palestine and then occupied 77% of what was formerly Palestine. then in 1967, Israel again invaded Palestine and annexed the rest of their land, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.</font>

Wrong. Those wars were instigated by the countries surrounding Israel, as they refused to recognize its existence.

relaxor!
04-08-2002, 12:53 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by smiling politely:
Wrong. Those wars were instigated by the countries surrounding Israel, as they refused to recognize its existence. </font>

Jordan and Egypt?
You're probably right.
I was trying to remember what I learned 3 years ago in AP Euro, not to be an elitist ass
but you're right

your skies are mine
04-08-2002, 01:01 AM
here's something for the not so interllectually enlightened

Idiot's Guide (http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html)

why don't all the Arab cunts just fuck off to Jordan? wankers

NegaBenji
04-08-2002, 07:14 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by your skies are mine:
here's something for the not so interllectually enlightened

Idiot's Guide (http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html)

why don't all the Arab cunts just fuck off to Jordan? wankers

</font>

Christ, that title couldn't be any more accurate. Did you actually *read* that page? So much for an unbiased view of the situation - I think it's time for some quotes:

"PALESTINE"

"If someone can explain to me how "expansionist Israel" has "taken over" the Middle East, please email me! The Arab countries occupy 640 times the land mass as does Israel and outnumber the Jews of Israel by nearly fifty to one. So much for Arab propaganda!"

"the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out."

"The battle cry heard throughout the Arab world was then, as it continues to be... "Slaughter the Jews" and "Throw the Jews into the sea!" "

"From a frightened and defeated enemy, these "Palestinian" Arabs under Israel's jurisdiction turned into a confident, hateful and dangerous enemy now on their way toward forming a terrorist state determined to destroy Israel!"

"But the Jews (I hate to admit) had this insane obsession of wanting the world to love them and thus were willing to give back the entire Sinai "

" By remaining an "occupier," Israel was set up for a campaign of vicious propaganda, the scope and intensity of which the world has never before seen!"

Answer me this - if Israel is right, in its occupation of Palestine (and its treatment of the Arab population in those territories), then why are there groups of Jews protesting the actions of Israel, and uniting with Palestinians in a show of unity?

Debaser
04-08-2002, 02:58 PM
this was pretty eye-opening for me (if its accurate? i have nothing else for balance, sorry).

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/myths.html

written by an Arab-American journalist.

sawdust restaurants
04-08-2002, 05:08 PM
That Idiot's Guide is soulless propaganda, nothing more.

PkPhuoko
04-08-2002, 05:13 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
That Idiot's Guide is soulless propaganda, nothing more.</font>

Yeah wish we had more rounded sources like european media!

NegaBenji
04-08-2002, 06:08 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
Yeah wish we had more rounded sources like european media!</font>

What was that phrase again? Oh yeah, not burn

PkPhuoko
04-08-2002, 06:48 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NegaBenji:
What was that phrase again? Oh yeah, not burn</font>

about as funny as a miscarriage there bud

NegaBenji
04-08-2002, 06:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
about as funny as a miscarriage there bud</font>

I wasn't trying to be funny.

PkPhuoko
04-08-2002, 07:12 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NegaBenji:
I wasn't trying to be funny.</font>

Right... and the purpose of sarcasm is?

Best Looking Boy
04-08-2002, 07:32 PM
Burn jews.

Debaser
04-08-2002, 08:05 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
That Idiot's Guide is soulless propaganda, nothing more.</font>

the real question is which propaganda do you believe? from the jews or the muslims? It would be pretty naive to not realize that the muslims have their propaganda machine on overdrive.

sawdust restaurants
04-08-2002, 08:10 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
Yeah wish we had more rounded sources like european media!</font>

Spare me.

And yes, the Palestinian side isn't much better; still, though, I'm going to be more derisive towards the Israeli bias simply because their propaganda--not their legitimate gripings, of which there are many, but their propaganda--is far more prevalent in the Western world.

PkPhuoko
04-08-2002, 08:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
Spare me.

And yes, the Palestinian side isn't much better; still, though, I'm going to be more derisive towards the Israeli bias simply because their propaganda--not their legitimate gripings, of which there are many, but their propaganda--is far more prevalent in the Western world.</font>

so let me get this straight... because you see more Israeli propaganda as compared to Palestinian propaganda then you are against Israel? I think that is the textbook definition of what many of us call a sheep.

The American television industry is dominated by Jewish persons.... the fact that you would even remotely look for an unbiased view "in the western world" is hillarious. That's like looking for someone in the Arab world to say "go israel"

your skies are mine
04-08-2002, 09:17 PM
I now drunk, I've just got in from the pub, so here's my "drunk" view on things -

bollocks, fuck it, your'e a Jew, you're an Arab, fuck it and just have beer you whinging cunts http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

human beings huh? tossers

PhantomFM
04-08-2002, 09:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
israel has killed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Palestinians than palestinians have killed israelis.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa</font>

You're the first person ever to deny that israelites have killed more palestinians than palestinians have killed israelites. Luckily, as usual, you have no facts and are easily handled.

------------------
PhantomFM (http://www.unc.edu/~lawsonb)

PkPhuoko
04-08-2002, 11:05 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PhantomFM:
You're the first person ever to deny that israelites have killed more palestinians than palestinians have killed israelites. Luckily, as usual, you have no facts and are easily handled.

</font>

way more? do you realise how long the history of israel vs palestine has gone on? fucking dolt

ZERO
04-09-2002, 12:15 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Debaser:
this was pretty eye-opening for me (if its accurate? i have nothing else for balance, sorry).

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/myths.html

written by an Arab-American journalist.</font>

that link is the biggest load of crap i've read in a while. wtf? no palestinian language? is he stupid or something? no palestinian culture?

actually, it's quite funny to read shit like this. however, it's sad at the same time.

PhantomFM
04-09-2002, 12:42 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
way more? do you realise how long the history of israel vs palestine has gone on? fucking dolt</font>

thousands of years. obviously we're talking post 1967, yet I'm interested to see if you can produce a statistic that says anything different including pre '67.

Since you've already used your first 2 favorite oneliners, bwaha and fucking dolt, i eagerly await an equally asinine response followed by you're third favorite, gwan.

------------------
PhantomFM (http://www.unc.edu/~lawsonb)

PkPhuoko
04-09-2002, 02:42 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PhantomFM:
thousands of years. obviously we're talking post 1967, yet I'm interested to see if you can produce a statistic that says anything different including pre '67.

Since you've already used your first 2 favorite oneliners, bwaha and fucking dolt, i eagerly await an equally asinine response followed by you're third favorite, gwan.

</font>


ummm you obviously dont know what gwan means... its not descriptive

Debaser
04-09-2002, 03:02 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ZERO:
that link is the biggest load of crap i've read in a while. wtf? no palestinian language? is he stupid or something? no palestinian culture?

actually, it's quite funny to read shit like this. however, it's sad at the same time.</font>

so are you saying there is? he's just making a point that Palestines are indistingishable from the Arabs from the neighboring countries, to counter their arguement that the Palestines are trying to reclaim their homeland (which the writer suggests there is no islamic homeland there because there was never a real Palestine created by Muslims in the first place). Seriously, I want to read the other side of this. Do you have any resources about the ancient history of Palestine (which the writer suggested there is none)?

Best Looking Boy
04-09-2002, 03:06 AM
yack yack yack
fucking kids

Debaser
04-09-2002, 03:24 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Best Looking Boy:
yack yack yack
fucking kids</font>

you might as well add *** to you sig cuz that pretty much sums up 99% of your posts.

NegaBenji
04-09-2002, 07:52 AM
But that whole semantic argument over whether Palestine was a true country, and whether it has distinct culture is pointless. The point is, a group of people (known as Palestinians) lived in a certain area (called Palestine) until Israel formed a state (with international blessing) in a section of that region. Now, Israel is continually expanding its borders into that region (known as Palestine), forcing the people who live there (Palestinians) to move away from their homes, denying the people (Palestinians) basic rights, and generally making their life hell. It's not dissimilar to East Germany back in the Cold War era. The distinction is that Palestinian Jews (ie Jews who live in the region known as Palestine, not Israel) do not suffer the same treatment by the Israeli forces, only those Arabs known as Palestinians. Which is why the terms Palestine and Palestinians are useful terms, regardless of historical recognition. Notwithstanding the fact that Palestine was supposed to become a sovereign state as part of the UN agreement, which would be about as official a recognition as you can get.

Samsa
04-09-2002, 10:38 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
Spare me.

And yes, the Palestinian side isn't much better; still, though, I'm going to be more derisive towards the Israeli bias simply because their propaganda--not their legitimate gripings, of which there are many, but their propaganda--is far more prevalent in the Western world.</font>

"the palestinian side isn't much better" <---you're right, it's not much better. it's like a billion times worse. and a billion times more prevalent at that.

Debaser
04-09-2002, 12:25 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NegaBenji:
But that whole semantic argument over whether Palestine was a true country, and whether it has distinct culture is pointless. The point is, a group of people (known as Palestinians) lived in a certain area (called Palestine) until Israel formed a state (with international blessing) in a section of that region. Now, Israel is continually expanding its borders into that region (known as Palestine), forcing the people who live there (Palestinians) to move away from their homes, denying the people (Palestinians) basic rights, and generally making their life hell. It's not dissimilar to East Germany back in the Cold War era. The distinction is that Palestinian Jews (ie Jews who live in the region known as Palestine, not Israel) do not suffer the same treatment by the Israeli forces, only those Arabs known as Palestinians. Which is why the terms Palestine and Palestinians are useful terms, regardless of historical recognition. Notwithstanding the fact that Palestine was supposed to become a sovereign state as part of the UN agreement, which would be about as official a recognition as you can get.</font>

What about the idiot guide pointing out the Palestine was originally the entire area of what is now Israel and Jordan? If you consider that, then the Jews have less than 25% of Palestine. Are the Jews not allowed to even keep this small area of Palestine? I do feel bad for all the mistreatment and injustice done to the Israel-Arab citizens. But looking at the big picture, the fact that the Arab leaders still balked at peace proposals in which Israel was willing to hand over almost 90% of the disputed lands, I have doubts about the true motives of the Arab leaders of whether they want to restore the palestinians to their homeland (of which they already have over 75%) or really do they just want to expell the jews from the middle east entirely.

Debaser
04-09-2002, 12:35 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
Spare me.

And yes, the Palestinian side isn't much better; still, though, I'm going to be more derisive towards the Israeli bias simply because their propaganda--not their legitimate gripings, of which there are many, but their propaganda--is far more prevalent in the Western world.</font>

Just from this post, it's easy to tell which side's propaganda is in fact more prevalent overall.

NegaBenji
04-09-2002, 12:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Debaser:
What about the idiot guide pointing out the Palestine was originally the entire area of what is now Israel and Jordan? If you consider that, then the Jews have less than 25% of Palestine. Are the Jews not allowed to even keep this small area of Palestine? I do feel bad for all the mistreatment and injustice done to the Israel-Arab citizens. But looking at the big picture, the fact that the Arab leaders still balked at peace proposals in which Israel was willing to hand over almost 90% of the disputed lands, I have doubts about the true motives of the Arab leaders of whether they want to restore the palestinians to their homeland (of which they already have over 75%) or really do they just want to expell the jews from the middle east entirely. </font>

Really, I wouldn't make a reference to that page if you want to be taken seriously. I agree that there is a great deal of hostility towards Israel from the Arab world, but this is merely going to be propagated by their attitude toward Palestinians. The problem isn't necessarily who owns the land (although many Arabs would disagree strongly, and it is an issue once self-government comes into it) - it's how the people within the disputed territories are segregated. Israeli settlements are dispersed throughout, and amenities such as electricity, and irrigation, are diverted into these settlement areas. Of course, the Palestinian communities are then hugely disadvantaged, and there is nothing they can do about it. They are also subject to checkpoints and searches, made to carry ID papers, and are punished more severely than Israelis from the same area, for similar crimes. Not to mention any construction in these areas is deemed illegal, and demolished. You cannot have two peoples living in the same area, but afforded different rights based on their nationality. Because of this, Israel is very much seen as an occupying power, and therefore the target of much hostility. Until they change their attitudes to the general population of Palestine, they cannot claim to be the innocent victim in all of this. It's one thing to have terrorists acting on behalf of innocent people, it's another to have the government of an innocent people instigating terrorist attacks. No quarter given to the terrorists, no quarter given to the 'counter-terrorists.'

Debaser
04-09-2002, 01:05 PM
Good points. Well I'm trying to research this because I'm intensely curious to really know what is going on. But its getting ridiculous when I find one pro-israel resource (http://www.eretzyisroel.org/) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN being biased and pro-arab and then I turn around and find a huge pro-palestine resource (http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN becing biased and pro-israel. wtf. I dunno what is the truth. But check out both of these huge sites thoroughly if you want to some major brain spinning...cuz I cannot tell which is right...eh they both sound right....propaganda...whatever...

jenny4ever
04-09-2002, 02:29 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Debaser:
Good points. Well I'm trying to research this because I'm intensely curious to really know what is going on. But its getting ridiculous when I find one pro-israel resource (http://www.eretzyisroel.org/) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN being biased and pro-arab and then I turn around and find a huge pro-palestine resource (http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN becing biased and pro-israel. wtf. I dunno what is the truth. But check out both of these huge sites thoroughly if you want to some major brain spinning...cuz I cannot tell which is right...eh they both sound right....propaganda...whatever...</font>


yea its insanely hard to find anything completely credible and unbiased.

NegaBenji
04-09-2002, 05:11 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Debaser:
Good points. Well I'm trying to research this because I'm intensely curious to really know what is going on. But its getting ridiculous when I find one pro-israel resource (http://www.eretzyisroel.org/) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN being biased and pro-arab and then I turn around and find a huge pro-palestine resource (http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm) that accuses and shows blatent examples of CNN becing biased and pro-israel. wtf. I dunno what is the truth. But check out both of these huge sites thoroughly if you want to some major brain spinning...cuz I cannot tell which is right...eh they both sound right....propaganda...whatever...</font>

You have to look around a lot, weigh up what you're reading and decide for yourself. To be honest, the only way you can really know is to read as much as you can, get as many sides to the story, then work out which is credible and which is bullshit. Try www.counterpunch.org (http://www.counterpunch.org) - there's a lot of intelligent editorial from various international sources, generally liberal but well argued.

sawdust restaurants
04-09-2002, 05:16 PM
You people need to read posts more closely. All I said was that I'm going to be more vocal about Israeli propaganda because it's more prevalent in American media. It's not that Palestinian propaganda is better or worse. It's that America's pro-Israel, and that's overwhelmingly what you see in the media today; even as we condemn Sharon's military offensive, we make sure that we know how bad Palestine is. At the very least, the legitimate arguments for Palestine need to come out, and they need to come out in the mass media more frequently; people are too fucking lazy to get up off their ass and learn about it any other way. The possibility is slim, yes, Clint, but as a journalist, it makes me sick to my stomach.

However, I never said I support the Palestinians. I wouldn't exactly say I'm completely pro-Israel, but I certainly don't support Arafat and his terrorist's methods, either.

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But how this is, sweet maid, I know not, and I cannot know; I ponder, and I cannot ponder; yet I live and love.

[This message has been edited by sawdust restaurants (edited 04-09-2002).]

Samsa
04-09-2002, 05:21 PM
well, the basic fact is that ALL journalism is propoganda, all communication is propoganda. this post here is propoganda. you cannot, cannot, speak to someone without speaking through some sort of bias. that's what separates us from creepy haley joel osmond. or something. u know. we're people and we have feelings.

the problem is that in one way or another, BOTH sides of the conflict are fighting a defensive war. in some way. like you can say, wouldn't it be easy if israel just pulled out of the west bank and the gaza strip...well there's ONE fact, and that's that jerusalem is IN the west bank, the OTHER problem is this term you keep hearing on the tv, which is "indefensible borders" -- the issue israel has to deal with is whether or not they'll even EXIST in ten years. or 5 years. it's not simply land-hunger. i don't really understand why they're safer with the west bank, but i'm not a military strategist. so whatever. the problem is that saddam hussein refers to israel as "that zionist entity". now, i don't know what the fuck ariel sharon thinks he's doing right now, what point he's trying to get across, but...yeah. there isn't going to be any peace until the "israel must be destroyed" and "jews eat babies" propoganda stops. and that's not gonna stop until those countries get a legitimate government.

i don't know

Best Looking Boy
04-09-2002, 05:26 PM
shhhh

Debaser
04-09-2002, 05:32 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
At the very least, the legitimate arguments for Palestine need to come out,
</font>

Okay, what are the legitimate arguments for Palestinians to be in Jerusalum? Everybody and their mama knows about the Jews being there 5,000 years ago whatever and its the holiest city in the bible.... And we all have heard about the complete desolation that Palestinians live under Israel occupation there, but I wanna know what historical/religious significance does the West Bank have for Palestinians? I read that the Koran does not even mention Jerusalum once in it, and that the prophet muhammed never visited there...

I'm just searching for another reason why the Palestines want it other than the "we were there first" arguement...

tweedyburd
04-09-2002, 06:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
well, the basic fact is that ALL journalism is propoganda, all communication is propoganda. </font>

So, a fact can be propoganda? I think you're confused about the difference between editorializing and actual fact.

Maybe for people who have lost any sense of an absolute, even facts can be propoganda. It certainly seems to be the direction our public (and global) discourse is taking. But then that's when you get into various ideas about relativity, the realm where facts are just incidental.

Most people who have any sense of reason left in them can find facts for themselves and logically and reasonably come to a conclusion that is superior.

Best Looking Boy
04-09-2002, 06:58 PM
None of you are as smart as your think you are.

smiling politely
04-09-2002, 07:14 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Best Looking Boy:
None of you are as smart as your think you are.</font>

That's such a stupid thing to write. Arguing and defending your opinions coherently, without resorting to swearing and personal attacks, is not equivalent to thinking that you're really smart.

PkPhuoko
04-09-2002, 07:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tweedyburd:
So, a fact can be propoganda?
</font>

yes it can be propoganda. Lets say Shaq scores 51 points this evening against the clippers. If I announce "Shaq dominated the game today scoring 51 points which single handedly destroyed the clippers defense" or on the other half if i say "Due to the clippers injured lineup Shaq bagged 51 points against a weak clippers defense"

at that point you have made a fact propaganda and in the middle east issues there is always some opinion thrown on it.

And sawdust..... there is an overabundance of the Palestinian side of the story. All I hear on the news is "Israel kills X amount of palestinians as the palestinians refugees are left without food in water, locked in their home, as Israel defys the worlds crys to pull back"

tell me how the fuck that isnt Palestinian propaganda?

sawdust restaurants
04-09-2002, 08:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
And sawdust..... there is an overabundance of the Palestinian side of the story. All I hear on the news is "Israel kills X amount of palestinians as the palestinians refugees are left without food in water, locked in their home, as Israel defys the worlds crys to pull back"</font>

When a word ends in a consonant followed by a y, you change the y to an i and add -es.

And what you're talking about has only been recently, by the way, with the Israeli offensive. Before, it was almost completely pro-Israeli news. And then the next thing you hear is about Arafat's reign of terrorism and how America is still Israel's ally. Fair? I think so, but it's still reporting America on Israel's side.

And your point about Shaq is irrelevant. I'm not talking about a slant on the news; slants are unavoidable, no matter how much you try to erase them. But we're talking egregious, blatant bias, which is completely different.

I agree with you that it has gotten better recently, but there's a reason for that, now, isn't there?

Clash City Rocker
04-09-2002, 09:14 PM
don't fuck israel, fuck sharon.

------------------
this is a fun game of spanking the peopple that make your life miserable. When you spank the character that you choose to punish, the face expression of the character will change as they scream and twitch in pain. The funny face expressions will make people laugh and relieve the stress.

tweedyburd
04-09-2002, 10:36 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
yes it can be propoganda. Lets say Shaq scores 51 points this evening against the clippers. If I announce "Shaq dominated the game today scoring 51 points which single handedly destroyed the clippers defense" or on the other half if i say "Due to the clippers injured lineup Shaq bagged 51 points against a weak clippers defense"

</font>

No, that's incorporating editorial voice into a lead or 'hard news'. The first example didn't report all the facts, like the Clippers defense being injured, for one. That is a decaf version of propoganda, but that doesn't mean you can't communicate the same facts in a more objective tone. "Shaq scored 51 points today, as the Lakers defeated a defensively injured Clipper line-up." That's not propoganda by the most desparate stretch of the definition.

Furthermore, both statements you gave as examples are both factual. It's just obvious that one voice favors one over the other, and vice versa. However, that doesn't change that they're facts. Propoganda is spining facts for an agenda. And that's what's going on with boths sides of the media both here, and especially in the Middle East.

PkPhuoko
04-09-2002, 10:42 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
When a word ends in a consonant followed by a y, you change the y to an i and add -es.

And what you're talking about has only been recently, by the way, with the Israeli offensive. Before, it was almost completely pro-Israeli news. And then the next thing you hear is about Arafat's reign of terrorism and how America is still Israel's ally. Fair? I think so, but it's still reporting America on Israel's side.

And your point about Shaq is irrelevant. I'm not talking about a slant on the news; slants are unavoidable, no matter how much you try to erase them. But we're talking egregious, blatant bias, which is completely different.

I agree with you that it has gotten better recently, but there's a reason for that, now, isn't there?</font>

umm i wasnt talking to you bout the shaq thing but yes the shaq thing is perfectly relevant.

But make up your mind mr. sawdust.... is the palestinian side being told or not? in the past 12 hours you've changed your mind and there wasnt really much going on today.

and who gives a fuck about spelling? heres a bunch of bad grammar

thems, yous, person's, dolphinic

sawdust restaurants
04-10-2002, 07:55 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
umm i wasnt talking to you bout the shaq thing but yes the shaq thing is perfectly relevant.</font>

Read what tweedy posted.

And yes, the Palestinian side is being told, but I still think the Israeli side is more prevalent. If Israel were to pull out of Palestine, we'd be back at square one again.

PkPhuoko
04-10-2002, 10:28 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by sawdust restaurants:
Read what tweedy posted.

And yes, the Palestinian side is being told, but I still think the Israeli side is more prevalent. If Israel were to pull out of Palestine, we'd be back at square one again.</font>

So if the Palestinian side were prevelant I assume you'd be supporting an upstage of the Israeli side?

PhantomFM
04-10-2002, 12:52 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Clash City Rocker:
don't fuck israel, fuck sharon.
</font>

damn right. i dont know why or how legally he was able to reenter their government after what happened the last time he had polital power.

And its not propoganda to say Israel killed X number of people and the Palestinians are without food and water when that is the case, especially when we have supplied Israel with weapons and money for "defense"

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PhantomFM (http://www.unc.edu/~lawsonb)

Samsa
04-10-2002, 05:02 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tweedyburd:
So, a fact can be propoganda? I think you're confused about the difference between editorializing and actual fact.

Maybe for people who have lost any sense of an absolute, even facts can be propoganda. It certainly seems to be the direction our public (and global) discourse is taking. But then that's when you get into various ideas about relativity, the realm where facts are just incidental.

Most people who have any sense of reason left in them can find facts for themselves and logically and reasonably come to a conclusion that is superior.

</font>

facts are never propoganda, but the communication of the fact almost always is. there's always a choice to be made, how it is worded, (even if colorful words aren't used), for example. the propoganda is also in the simple decision to communicate one certain fact and not another.

sawdust restaurants
04-10-2002, 06:54 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
So if the Palestinian side were prevelant I assume you'd be supporting an upstage of the Israeli side?</font>

As far as propaganda goes, yes. Both sides deserve equal treatment.

The Idiot's Guide was still quite ridiculous, though.

scouse_dave
04-10-2002, 08:36 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by NinjaTurtle:
maybe we should stop helping any of them </font>

it's highly dubious whether US involvment in the middle east is helping anybody

tweedyburd
04-11-2002, 03:15 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
the propoganda is also in the simple decision to communicate one certain fact and not another. </font>

Gotcha. You're right on about that.

Clash City Rocker
04-11-2002, 04:03 AM
where is ytsach rabim* when you need him?

*i know i butchered the spelling on this one.

------------------
this is a fun game of spanking the peopple that make your life miserable. When you spank the character that you choose to punish, the face expression of the character will change as they scream and twitch in pain. The funny face expressions will make people laugh and relieve the stress.

Best Looking Boy
04-11-2002, 04:09 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by smiling politely:
That's such a stupid thing to write. Arguing and defending your opinions coherently, without resorting to swearing and personal attacks, is not equivalent to thinking that you're really smart.</font>
It was a nice way to open the 3rd page of babble though.

[This message has been edited by Best Looking Boy (edited 04-11-2002).]

PhantomFM
04-11-2002, 10:26 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Best Looking Boy:
Originally posted by smiling politely:
That's such a stupid thing to write. Arguing and defending your opinions coherently, without resorting to swearing and personal attacks, is not equivalent to thinking that you're really smart.</font>
It was a nice way to open the 3rd page of babble though.

[This message has been edited by Best Looking Boy (edited 04-11-2002).]

wow. that's the SEVENTH meaningless post of dribble you've made on this thread. i fully recommend anyone to scan through the three pages and check them out. you've gotta work hard to be that lame

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PhantomFM (http://www.unc.edu/~lawsonb)

BeautifulLoser
04-11-2002, 04:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
it's highly dubious whether US involvment in the middle east is helping anybody</font>

Perhaps, but the US gets the bad end of the deal both ways really. We might not be helping anything by being there, but if we take an isolationist stance, we get criticized for that too.

I've been watching this all alot lately, and I really can't think of any good way to end all of it. Being a Christian, I believe that there will never be peace there. That's what the Bible says, I think. Don't remember the exact verse.

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AIM: JenniferZero

censored25: Dont be sad, Jesus loves your ass

ZERO
04-11-2002, 05:47 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by BeautifulLoser:
Perhaps, but the US gets the bad end of the deal both ways really. We might not be helping anything by being there, but if we take an isolationist stance, we get criticized for that too.

I've been watching this all alot lately, and I really can't think of any good way to end all of it. Being a Christian, I believe that there will never be peace there. That's what the Bible says, I think. Don't remember the exact verse.

</font>

Well you isolate yourselves and then intervene at the wrong times. That's why you're always crtiticized.

PkPhuoko
04-11-2002, 06:03 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ZERO:
Well you isolate yourselves and then intervene at the wrong times. That's why you're always crtiticized.</font>

how can we know its wrong? We're the ONLY country that ever intervenes... it'd be different if other countries showed us a right way to do it but sadly we're the only country that ever does anything outside talk.

BeautifulLoser
04-11-2002, 08:22 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
how can we know its wrong? We're the ONLY country that ever intervenes... it'd be different if other countries showed us a right way to do it but sadly we're the only country that ever does anything outside talk.</font>

Word.

Besides, it's a matter of opinion as to what those "wrong times" are. Someone's always going to have something to say.

There's not that much we can do right now though. It's all going to keep happening because both sides are too bullheaded to listen to anyone other than themselves.

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AIM: JenniferZero

censored25: Dont be sad, Jesus loves your ass