View Full Version : Have any of you read about this?


The Sacred and Profane
03-25-2002, 12:53 AM
Taken from http://uspolitics.about.com/library/weekly/aa031102a.htm

When Mark Bingham boarded the plane home that September morning, he had no idea that within hours he would die a hero.

At 10:03 a.m. on the 11th of September, authorities believe the 6-foot-5 rugby player from San Francisco was one of a handful of passengers who brought United Flight 93 down in a field in Pennsylvania. There were no survivors. Had Bingham and his fellow travelers not acted, it is thought the plane would have been flown into the US Congress.

"It is now believed that the terrorists on Flight 93 intended to crash the airplane into the United States Capitol where I work, the great house of democracy where I was that day. It is very possible that I would have been in the building, with a great many other people, when that fateful, terrible moment occurred, and a beautiful symbol of our freedom was destroyed along with hundreds if not thousands of lives. I may very well owe my life to Mark and the others who summoned the enormous courage and love necessary to deny those depraved, hateful men their terrible triumph. Such a debt you incur for life." - (Senator John McCain's eulogy for Mark Bingham, September 22, 2001.)

But on today's six-month anniversary of his horrible death, and the nation's greatest tragedy in decades, Mark Bingham is now officially being declared a lesser kind of hero because he was gay.

In an appearance on the Sunday, March 10 broadcast of NBC's "Meet the Press," Kenneth Feinberg, the head of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund (a fund created by Congress and run by the Department of Justice), said that gay partners of the heroes of September 11th will not necessarily be eligible for the same compensation as heterosexual family members who lost their loved ones.

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According to Feinberg, lots and lots of people will receive compensation under the plan, including children, babies, and even fetuses. And as an indication of how generous the fund will be, even illegal aliens, who aren't American citizens and who are in the US in violation of federal law, will receive benefits. Feinberg even says that the Attorney General has promised that if undocumented aliens come forward, they won't be kicked out of the country, and their employers won't be penalized. "The attorney general, in consultation with Immigration, etc., undocumented aliens who come forward, the families will not suffer any consequences. They are covered by this program. They will get a check. The employer, where we need the economic information about the undocumented alien, will not be penalized," Feinberg told "Meet the Press."

Yep, the Attorney General is himself willing to overlook US law so that every victim of September 11 can be fully compensated. But when it comes to gay Americans who lost a loved one to Mohammad Atta and his band of thieves, that's when Feinberg's and the Department of Justice's well of generosity suddenly dries up:

"[Gays and lesbians are] left out of my program to the extent that their own state doesn't ******* them. I cannot get into a position in this program, which has a one-and-a-half or two-year life start second-guessing what the state of New York or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts or the state of Virginia or New Jersey, how they treat same-sex partners, domestic live-ins, etc. I simply say this: What does your state law say about who is eligible? If your state law makes you eligible, I will honor state law. If it doesn't, I go with the state. Otherwise, Tim, I would find myself getting sued in every state by people claiming that I'm not following how the state distributes money. I can't get into that local battle. I've got to rely on state law." - Kenneth Feinberg on NBC's "Meet the Press," March 10, 2002.

That's a long-winded way of saying that if state law discriminates against gay people, then so will Feinberg and the 911 Fund. The problem for gay Americans who lost loved ones on September 11 is that most states do not legally recognize gay relationships (according to the Human Rights Campaign's Web site, only California and Hawaii offer domestic partner registries to their citizens, though Vermont and DC likely offer something similar), and others offer benefits for state employees, but not citizens at large. And while 56 or so cities and counties do in fact recognize such relationships, under Feinberg's formula, it's the state's law that counts, not the city's or county's.

So, in the end, pretty much everyone who died - including people who aren't even American citizens and were living in the US illegally - will automatically be honored by the September 11th Fund as deserving of America's special recognition and thanks. The sole exception will be gay and lesbian Americans, because Feinberg and the 911 Fund wouldn't want to do anything contrary to US law. (Unless of course it involves an illegal alien who isn't even American - then apparently it's okay to bend the rules.)

On this six-month anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Kenneth Feinberg and the September 11th Fund are telling the American people that - regardless of whether gay man Mark Bingham was one of the four heroes on United Flight 93 who saved the US Congress and the White House from utter annihilation, regardless of whether gay man David Charlebois died as co-pilot of American Airlines flight 77 when it flew into the Pentagon, and regardless of whether gay man and NY Fire Department Chaplain Father Mychal Judge died while administering last rites to the dead firemen at Ground Zero - the 911 Fund plans to discriminate against a class of American hero because most of the country sanctioned such discrimination prior to September 11.

If September 11 has taught us anything, it's that our patriotism and love of country transcend our differences and unite us all. It would be ironic if the generosity of so many Americans in giving to the September 11th Fund were used to further divide us as a people, and send the message to all that some American heroes are more equal than others.

I leave you with these words of Senator John McCain.

"I never knew Mark Bingham. But I wish I had. I know he was a good son and friend, a good rugby player, a good American, and an extraordinary human being. He supported me, and his support now ranks among the greatest honors of my life. I wish I had known before September 11 just how great an honor his trust in me was. I wish I could have thanked him for it more profusely than time and circumstances allowed. But I know it now. And I thank him with the only means I possess, by being as good an American as he was.

"America will overcome these atrocities. We will prevail over our enemies. We will right this terrible injustice. And when we do, let us claim it as a tribute to our liberty, and to Mark Bingham and all those who died to defend it."
- Senator John McCain, Eulogy for Mark Bingham, September 22, 2001.


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http://newbatteries.homestead.com/files/0321.jpg (http://orangesoup.noyen.org)
oh, say it isn't fucking so. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/arundel)

bonsor
03-25-2002, 01:00 AM
that's

wow

it hurts

Will
03-25-2002, 01:02 AM
two fish
one swimming upstream
one swimming down, living in a dream

blah blah.

look, louis, gay people are beautiful, too.
this is Exactly how you are discriminating against shakira.

The Sacred and Profane
03-25-2002, 01:03 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
two fish
one swimming upstream
one swimming down, living in a dream

blah blah.

look, louis, gay people are beautiful, too.
this is Exactly how you are discriminating against shakira.</font><font color=00ccff>Hey, there's no hate for Shakira here.

Will
03-25-2002, 01:06 AM
louis! even neat vincent is not against shakira!

jeez.

surrealist
03-25-2002, 01:11 AM
Fine Abigail. FINE! *Sigh* http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif You still suger.

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:13 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
louis! even neat vincent is not against shakira!

jeez.</font>

Sounds like you have a personal problem to me.

Will
03-25-2002, 01:18 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:19 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif</font>

Mrs. Roan, you always smile. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif So beautiful.

Will
03-25-2002, 01:23 AM
i am not married, bitch.

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:24 AM
Not with that last name you're not!

Will
03-25-2002, 01:35 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/redface.gif

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:36 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/redface.gif</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:37 AM
You're a special person, know that?

Will
03-25-2002, 01:43 AM
i thought this was about gay oppression?
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif?

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:44 AM
It was. Waaaas.

Will
03-25-2002, 01:47 AM
jerk.

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http://will.envy.nu/quick.jpg (http://www.emote.org/metok)

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:48 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
nyotok kartser: i really need a nice pink gown.
</font>

Will
03-25-2002, 01:55 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/redface.gif

ocean
03-25-2002, 01:58 AM
http://www.geocities.com/surrealdeath/web/1970.txt

You shouldn't complain. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:00 AM
this is possibly the most sidetracked thread ever.

Will
03-25-2002, 02:02 AM
i hate you.
above you, irrelevant.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:03 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
i hate you.
above you, irrelevant.</font>

so you don't hate me, then? just making sure.

ocean
03-25-2002, 02:04 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
i hate you.
above you, irrelevant.</font>

nyotok kartser: STOP POSTINg
nyotok kartser: THAT PHTOOTOAOTOA

http://www.geocities.com/surrealdeath/web/1970.txt

NO, YOU'RE BEAUTIFUL IN IT!

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:04 AM
who's the chick?

ocean
03-25-2002, 02:06 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif She WILL not admitt it.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:07 AM
well whoever it is is cute enough.

but then again i don't have standards.

Will
03-25-2002, 02:08 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:09 AM
YOU THE BOMB IN PHANTOMS YO!

ocean
03-25-2002, 02:10 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Irrelevant:
YOU THE BOMB IN PHANTOMS YO!</font>

And you have HIGH standards!

Will
03-25-2002, 02:11 AM
:\

Will
03-25-2002, 02:12 AM
i wish you would stop posting.
you are objectifying me.

ocean
03-25-2002, 02:12 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
i wish you would stop posting.
you are objectifying me.</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif Am not. You just hate that picture.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:16 AM
fine piece of ass?

Will
03-25-2002, 02:16 AM
no, i don't.
i just hate you!

nevermind
03-25-2002, 02:17 AM
someone should fuck him in the ass till it bleeds....

surrealist
03-25-2002, 02:17 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Will:
no, i don't.
i just hate you!</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif I'm sorry. Really. Forgive me? Please? I still love you. Even though you don't.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:18 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by nevermind:
someone should fuck him in the ass till it bleeds....</font>

great idea!

wait, what the fuck are you talking about?

Will
03-25-2002, 02:19 AM
nyotok kartser: love is real
nyotok kartser: real is love
nyotok kartser: love is feeling
nyotok kartser: feeling love
nyotok kartser: love is wanting
nyotok kartser: to be loved
nyotok kartser: love is touch
nyotok kartser: touch is love
nyotok kartser: love is reaching
nyotok kartser: reaching love
nyotok kartser: love is asking
nyotok kartser: to be loved
nyotok kartser: love is you
nyotok kartser: you and me
nyotok kartser: love is knowing
nyotok kartser: we can be
nyotok kartser: love is free
nyotok kartser: free is love
nyotok kartser: love is living
nyotok kartser: living love
nyotok kartser: love is needing
nyotok kartser: to be loved
nyotok kartser: .
surrealXYU: http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: let's hear it from the west coast
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: come on, come on, come on
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: let's hear it from the hippies and the yippies
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: let's hear it from the hare krishnas
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: every body, now
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: let me hear it
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: every body, now, come on
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: won't get it unless you want it
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: and we want it now
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: come together
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: come together, all together
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: we can get it tomorrow, today
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: if you want it now, only now
nyotok kartser: all we are saying
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: yes, yes
nyotok kartser: all we are sayin
nyotok kartser: is give peace a chance
nyotok kartser: okay, beautiful.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:24 AM
Thanks for deleting your post, Irrelevant!

Will
03-25-2002, 02:30 AM
i was gonna say yes.

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 02:33 AM
http://www.geocities.com/surrealdeath/web/1970.txt

<font color=#007AAA>You're faptacular.

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We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

Mayfuck
03-25-2002, 02:34 AM
See where your little handbag is? That's how tall I am.

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 02:36 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
See where your little handbag is? That's how tall I am.</font>

<font color=#007AAA>Julio is a Mexican Leprechaun. Instead of gold, he has a pot of tacos.



------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

Will
03-25-2002, 02:38 AM
that is a good height.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 02:40 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>Julio is a Mexican Leprechaun. Instead of gold, he has a pot of tacos.
</font>

holy shit i wish every mexican was a leprechaun!

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 04:00 AM
Great article. It's too bad the thread was ruined by the very problem - ignorance...

Will
03-25-2002, 04:07 AM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/mad.gif

The Sacred and Profane
03-25-2002, 04:15 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Great article. It's too bad the thread was ruined by the very problem - ignorance...</font><font color=00ccff>Well, I'm glad you read it. I was really disappointed when this thread started filling up with mindless shit.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 04:16 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Great article. It's too bad the thread was ruined by the very problem - ignorance...</font>

i doubt people are really that ignorant of the problem. it's more apathy towards gay rights at the moment.

The Sacred and Profane
03-25-2002, 04:22 AM
<font color=00ccff>I think people are very ignorant of the problem. I'm pretty sure that your average Hank Smith american isn't aware of this.

Irrelevant
03-25-2002, 04:24 AM
i'd also say that your "average" americans could give a shit less about dirty fags.

The Sacred and Profane
03-25-2002, 04:27 AM
<font color=00ccff>There's no doubt in my mind about that attitude.

But apathy towards gay rights does play a part in it, but ignorance...it feels like to me that not enough people are really aware of this.

ravenguy2000
03-25-2002, 08:38 AM
That is awful. That is really, really fucking awful. This just...I don't know, I've always been adamant about gay rights, but sometimes I forget the fact that there are so many people that are just dead set against things which I think are just so basic. And by so many people I suppose I really mean "the vast majority or american citizens and people in the federal and state governments." I mean, until gays and lesbians can legally bind to eachother, there is going to always be issues like this. Just think about this:

Say there is John and Pete, and they have been living together for the past 10 years. One day, as Pete is driving home from work, he gets in a horrible accident, and is rushed to the hospital. As soon as John gets word, ina apanic he drivesto the hospital, tells the hospital his name, and asks where Pete is. Here's the thing, though. Because Pete is not legally John's husband, he can't see him.

Think about that.

Think about your husband or wife, in an accident, you don't know if they just have bumps and bruises or if they are 10 minutes away from death, and you can't see them or give permission to administer treatment, or anything of that nature. You've been living together for 10 years, madly in love, and you can't bind yourselves legally together because the state says so. So you can't see your spouse in the hospital room, or give the hospital permission to treat him or her. It doesn't matter if you are gay or straight, just imagine how that would feel, how that would effect you.

I'm going to be upset for the rest of the day about this.

Eulogy
03-25-2002, 08:49 AM
Well that's just retarded. I can't think of much else to say...heh

raindrops + sunshowers
03-25-2002, 11:46 AM
One thing you all are overlooking: No matter how atrocious these things are, he's right. It's essentially pointless to try and give out the money federally; states, especially Southern states, would drag out lawsuits forever, and I guarantee you that no Republican administration is going to have the balls to step up and try to undermine federalism for the sake of homosexuals.

Velcome to Ahmerica.

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 09:04 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Great article. It's too bad the thread was ruined by the very problem - ignorance...</font>

<Font color=#007AAA>Not ignorance, apathy.

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We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 09:06 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ravenguy2000:
I'm going to be upset for the rest of the day about this. </font>

<Font color=#007AAA>How about you do something about it instead of moping.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

ravenguy2000
03-25-2002, 09:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<Font color=#007AAA>How about you do something about it instead of moping.

</font>


I feel like the best thing I can do at this point in my life is to be vocal about these sorts of issues every chance I get in normal day to day discussion. The only way that things are going to change is if the mindset of the american people changes, and if you just talk common sense with people, and you have a good argument, i think that people will apreciate what you have to say. Its the best I can do right now, and I feel like that is far more productive then being a member of a gay rights group or something of that nature.

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 09:32 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<Font color=#007AAA>Not ignorance, apathy.

</font>

Ignoring the information defines ignorance. Apathy is a result of ignorance...

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 09:37 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ravenguy2000:

I feel like the best thing I can do at this point in my life is to be vocal about these sorts of issues every chance I get in normal day to day discussion. The only way that things are going to change is if the mindset of the american people changes, and if you just talk common sense with people, and you have a good argument, i think that people will apreciate what you have to say. Its the best I can do right now, and I feel like that is far more productive then being a member of a gay rights group or something of that nature. </font>

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 09:50 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ravenguy2000:

I feel like the best thing I can do at this point in my life is to be vocal about these sorts of issues every chance I get in normal day to day discussion. The only way that things are going to change is if the mindset of the american people changes, and if you just talk common sense with people, and you have a good argument, i think that people will apreciate what you have to say. Its the best I can do right now, and I feel like that is far more productive then being a member of a gay rights group or something of that nature. </font>

<Font color=#007AAA>People don't appreciate a good argument, especially if it's one from a radical position. They will consider you "crazy" or worse yet "stupid". People are dumb and won't listen, so I figure until the world goes to hell in a handbasket, I'll just skim through the Economist every week for my news and look at ESPN.com every day for baseball news. I've come to the point in my life where I'm just sick of politics and I want to escape into something that doesn't matter at all. If that makes me ignorant, then fine: ignorance is bliss.

I'm surprised you gave a thumbs up to that, Chad. Change doesn't come until people unite together and demonstrate. Having a "good argument" is only good for dinner parties, not political change.

ravenguy2000
03-25-2002, 09:57 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<Font color=#007AAA>People don't appreciate a good argument, especially if it's one from a radical position. They will consider you "crazy" or worse yet "stupid". People are dumb and won't listen, so I figure until the world goes to hell in a handbasket, I'll just skim through the Economist every week for my news and look at ESPN.com every day for baseball news. I've come to the point in my life where I'm just sick of politics and I want to escape into something that doesn't matter at all. If that makes me ignorant, then fine: ignorance is bliss.

I'm surprised you gave a thumbs up to that, Chad. Change doesn't come until people unite together and demonstrate. Having a "good argument" is only good for dinner parties, not political change.

</font>

Well, here's the thing, I don't think the argument that gays and lesbians should be able to legally bond with eachother is all that radical. I've done this many times. You just give a few examples, and explain your points passionately and in a conversational tone, and I'm pretty damn good at making people see my way. The reason I think that this works especially well with gay rights is that most people don't talk about this, and really haven't thought intelligently about the issue a hell of a lot. Yeah, people are dumb, but people are also willing to listen if you present your thoughts in certain way. The revolution starts one person at a time, you know? I dunno, for me, I guess I'm just good at convincing people of how I feel one on one. I'd make a damn good politician if I were so inclined, if i do say so myself.



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http://ravenguy98.homestead.com/files/Factory.jpg
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin.

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 10:18 PM
He's doing what he can and it's more than most people, so yes, he gets a pat on the back for his efforts.

One must observe, then think, then do - one can't go straight to DO - how does one unconsciously start a movement? Without thoughts and the spoken word coming first, no action can take place.

-------
"A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true."
-------

Ignorance is not bliss - only those who are ignorant of true bliss will say that is such...

raindrops + sunshowers
03-25-2002, 10:22 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Ignorance is not bliss - only those who are ignorant of true bliss will say that is such...</font>

Or, rather, those who are willing to fight for true bliss. True bliss doesn't come in the fight, it comes in the aftermath.

Even MLK got frustrated. Remember his calls for "militant," "massive" civil disobedience? It's not as easy as one believes it to be, and while I don't agree with Brendan, I completely understand where he's coming from and often feel the same way.

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 10:22 PM
<Font color=#007AAA>Eh.

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We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

THRILLHO
03-25-2002, 10:30 PM
brendan, you know why you came to the conclusion that people are apathetic and therefore everything is hopeless? because everyone else has too. it's like not voting for someone because you're pretty sure he's not going to get the majority.

my comment on the article: it's terrific piece of journalism. what pisses me off THE MOST is that i didn't see it on any front pages... hell, i didn't see it in my paper at all. i saw full oscar coverage.

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 10:42 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Or, rather, those who are willing to fight for true bliss. True bliss doesn't come in the fight, it comes in the aftermath.

Even MLK got frustrated. Remember his calls for "militant," "massive" civil disobedience? It's not as easy as one believes it to be, and while I don't agree with Brendan, I completely understand where he's coming from and often feel the same way.</font>

I don't remember MLK calling for militant action - ever - is there a specific example of this?

I find it disappointing to hear someone say they have given up trying to change anything just because they felt a very small amount of frustration - how easily and readily do you roll over and give up? What WOULD inspire you to try or try again? Does it have to knock on your front door in order for you to realize something must be done? Is everyone that far removed, mentally, from what affects their own lives and those lives of their children and grandchildren? Is everyone that selfish and without concern?

It's not supposed to be easy - there WILL be failures - but, to give up is to die...

*note: that second paragraph wasn't directed at you personally, rather, merely inspired by what you said.
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[This message has been edited by liarsclub (edited 03-25-2002).]

liarsclub
03-25-2002, 10:52 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THRILLHO:
my comment on the article: it's terrific piece of journalism. what pisses me off THE MOST is that i didn't see it on any front pages... hell, i didn't see it in my paper at all. i saw full oscar coverage.</font>

Yeah - unfortunately, that's where our media has gone - towards ratings. The diminishing integrity in the media is diminishing the minds of the population and skewing what exactly is important to the citizens, or, more specifically, they're pushing aside what truly affects their lives...

THRILLHO
03-25-2002, 11:21 PM
I know! I read the paper every day out of habit, but lately (like, in the last year) I realize there's so much that just doesn't get printed - and I'm not even talking about viewpoints other than what's "fit to print." I mean entire stories are left out and I hear about them on the internet. Actually the "striaght press" (free papers) usually do a good job of not being biased and being important. But still, tabloids sell more...

bonsor
03-25-2002, 11:44 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<Font color=#007AAA>People don't appreciate a good argument, especially if it's one from a radical position. They will consider you "crazy" or worse yet "stupid". People are dumb and won't listen.</font>

Isn't this just the same exact way that you are treating their opinion?

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-25-2002, 11:59 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THRILLHO:
brendan, you know why you came to the conclusion that people are apathetic and therefore everything is hopeless? because everyone else has too. it's like not voting for someone because you're pretty sure he's not going to get the majority.</font>

<font color=#007AAA>Actually, it's because I was a political science major for two and a half years and I discovered everyone in that field are just unthinking status-quo clones.

I think I have a right to be bitter. None of you took Mass Media and Public Opinion, which is basically a class that treats popular elections like sports.

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We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

ravenguy2000
03-26-2002, 12:04 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
<font color=#007AAA>everyone in that field are just unthinking status-quo clones.


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its the truth, you know. which is why i avoid politcal science majors, and am very happy I am not one.



[This message has been edited by ravenguy2000 (edited 03-26-2002).]

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-26-2002, 12:07 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ******:
Isn't this just the same exact way that you are treating their opinion?</font>

<font color=#007AAA>Not at all. I just present my views, try to get people to think about the issues and generally just provide a voice that is contrary to the status-quo. I just end up making a "fool" out of myself to people who think everything works just fine and we don't need to do anything.

I just stopped caring. It's too hard and I won't see any results from my work so I'd rather just enjoy myself by covering baseball for a newspaper somewhere and maybe throw in my two cents about politics and news from time to time. I've accepted the fact that I can't do anything so calling other people ignorant for not caring is just counter-productive. If they want to care then they will, if they don't, I don't blame them.

By the way, Madasgascar has two capitals right now. Bet you didn't know that.



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We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.