View Full Version : This September 11th Documentary


august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 09:58 PM
unfuckingbelievable. it's all shot from inside the trade center. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 09:59 PM
jinx

-Tragedy-
03-10-2002, 09:59 PM
*am watching it now*

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 10:06 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by -Tragedy-:
*am watching it now*</font>



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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

-Tragedy-
03-10-2002, 10:11 PM
I'm guessing the rookie firefighter guy dies?

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 10:15 PM
i dunno but we're about to see a ton of stuff we've never seen before.

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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

-Tragedy-
03-10-2002, 10:16 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
i dunno but we're about to see a ton of stuff we've never seen before.

</font>


no shit

Ketchup
03-10-2002, 10:18 PM
enough is enough

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 10:22 PM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 10:24 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by BlueStar:
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

</font>

are you going to be ok watching this??? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

bittertrance
03-10-2002, 10:29 PM
is ti on at 9pm everywhere? i have crappy local news on right now

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 10:30 PM
this is an insane documentary

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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 10:31 PM
i feel like i'm going to be sick...but i should watch it, you know?

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 10:31 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by august pumpkin:
are you going to be ok watching this??? http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

</font>

Some tears. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif


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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

My Igloo
03-10-2002, 10:34 PM
I read in the paper yesterday that a widow was trying to stop the doco being telecast because she "might see her husband" and that she didn't want to see "the horror in their eyes"

NEWSFLASH: don't watch it then! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/mad.gif
You can't pretend it didn't happen and you can't shove the shit down our throats...you've just gotta light da spliff and cheeel rasta!!

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 10:36 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by BlueStar:
Some tears. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif


</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 10:43 PM
holy shit!! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

Graveflower
03-10-2002, 10:45 PM
I don't understand why anyone would watch this. Or why it's being aired. There is no good reason for it.

My Igloo
03-10-2002, 10:47 PM
I don't live in the USA...

bittertrance
03-10-2002, 10:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Graveflower:
I don't understand why anyone would watch this. Or why it's being aired. There is no good reason for it.</font>


we are a nation of voyeurs

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 10:51 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Graveflower:
I don't understand why anyone would watch this. Or why it's being aired. There is no good reason for it.</font>

people need to know... i've seen video of the aftermath and it gave me a different view... thus the same

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 10:52 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Graveflower:
I don't understand why anyone would watch this. Or why it's being aired. There is no good reason for it.</font>

i was in class during all of this. i never saw/heard these news reports.

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 10:56 PM
that video of the guy with the briefcase says it all

------------------
Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 10:58 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
that video of the guy with the briefcase says it all

</font>

?

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 10:58 PM
You all post as if CBS were airing this for some reason OTHER than to improve their ratings.

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 10:59 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
You all post as if CBS were airing this for some reason OTHER than to improve their ratings.</font>

who gives a fuck? its an aspect of the most pivitol point of our generation... excuse us if we dont give a fuck if cbs wants high ratings

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 11:00 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Graveflower:
I don't understand why anyone would watch this. Or why it's being aired. There is no good reason for it.</font>

Because it's a documentary...becuase it's real...because people are beginning to forget.



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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 11:01 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
who gives a fuck? its an aspect of the most pivitol point of our generation... excuse us if we dont give a fuck if cbs wants high ratings</font>



------------------
~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 11:04 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
who gives a fuck? its an aspect of the most pivitol point of our generation... excuse us if we dont give a fuck if cbs wants high ratings</font>



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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 11:10 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
who gives a fuck? its an aspect of the most pivitol point of our generation... excuse us if we dont give a fuck if cbs wants high ratings</font>

Thank you for disagreeing with me and thus affirming my opinion, Clint. I can always count on you.

This documentary is wrong on so many levels. Obviously there is the greed factor.

And then there is people's rationale. I cannot and will not believe "people are starting to forget"; how the fuck do you forget where you were and what happened? And besides, that's a weak argument anyway, because it's inevitable: eventually, people will "forget" and lives will get back to some sort of normality. You don't see massive Pearl Harbor documentaries every December 7, do you? 9/11 will be the same way in 25, 30, 40, 50 years. That's just the way it is.

This is, basically, like Jared already said, voyeurism at its worst. I'm not saying September 11 didn't change things. It did. I grew up around New York. I'd been to those buildings lots of times, and driving back to visit NYC over Christmas break, seeing cranes in place of their majesty was fucking heartbreaking. I, personally, haven't been the same since that day; I really doubt I ever will get back the sort of merry-go-lucky happiness thing I had going beforehand after years of melancholy. That's just the way it is, though; I've come to realize that's the way real life works. And people cannot forget what happened that day. That I will agree with.

But fuck, this is just masturbation. Reliving the nightmare isn't going to get us anywhere. It's not going to alleviate things. If anything, it's just going to compound our problems and kickstart the nationalistic diatribes again; it's a disservice to all those people who died, not a fitting tribute.

Travis Meeks
03-10-2002, 11:14 PM
all you people (who are complaing) are fucking whining bastards. Shut the fuck up. Don't bitch about everything, that was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Stop your self loathing and self centered sh|t and grow up.

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 11:15 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Thank you for disagreeing with me and thus affirming my opinion, Clint. I can always count on you.

This documentary is wrong on so many levels. Obviously there is the greed factor.

And then there is people's rationale. I cannot and will not believe "people are starting to forget"; how the fuck do you forget where you were and what happened? And besides, that's a weak argument anyway, because it's inevitable: eventually, people will "forget" and lives will get back to some sort of normality. You don't see massive Pearl Harbor documentaries every December 7, do you? 9/11 will be the same way in 25, 30, 40, 50 years. That's just the way it is.

This is, basically, like Jared already said, voyeurism at its worst. I'm not saying September 11 didn't change things. It did. I grew up around New York. I'd been to those buildings lots of times, and driving back to visit NYC over Christmas break, seeing cranes in place of their majesty was fucking heartbreaking. I, personally, haven't been the same since that day; I really doubt I ever will get back the sort of merry-go-lucky happiness thing I had going beforehand after years of melancholy. That's just the way it is, though; I've come to realize that's the way real life works. And people cannot forget what happened that day. That I will agree with.

But fuck, this is just masturbation. Reliving the nightmare isn't going to get us anywhere. It's not going to alleviate things. If anything, it's just going to compound our problems and kickstart the nationalistic diatribes again; it's a disservice to all those people who died, not a fitting tribute.</font>

<font size=9> WHO GIVES A FUCK. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MOMENT OF AMERICAN HISTORY THAT I HAVE LIVED THROUGH. LIKE MY PARENTS IN VIETNAM, AND MY GRANDPARENTS DURING THE WORLD WARS AT WHATEVER COST I HAVE THE WANT/NEED TO KNOW WHATS GOING ON. WHETHER I GET THAT FROM CBS OUT OF GREED OR A FIRST HAND ACCOUNT I WANT/NEED TO KNOW. IF YOU DISAGREE GO PREACH SOMEWHERE ELSE I FOR ONE COULD GIVE A FUCK. I REMOTELY KNEW PEOPLE THAT DIED THAT DAY AND I NEED TO FUCKING KNOW. IM IN THE MILITARY... I NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS IM SUPPOSED TO BE CARING ABOUT. IF YOU CANT FATHOM MY VIEWPOINT DONT COMMENT TO ME

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 11:15 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Travis Meeks:
all you people (who are complaing) are fucking whining bastards. Shut the fuck up. Don't bitch about everything, that was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Stop your self loathing and self centered sh|t and grow up.</font>

Ladies and gentlemen, I offer, for $3.99 a pound, a prime cut of Proof For What I Just Posted.

And Clint, I understand to a certain extent where you're coming from, but I still don't think that makes it right. And out of my own curiosity, I turned it on and watched about fifteen minutes, and it was nothing earth-shattering or life-affirming that mattered that much. After two planes fly into a vast American monument, the details aren't that important anymore.

[This message has been edited by raindrops + sunshowers (edited 03-10-2002).]

Travis Meeks
03-10-2002, 11:20 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Ladies and gentlemen, I offer, for $3.99 a pound, a prime cut of Proof For What I Just Posted.

And Clint, I understand to a certain extent where you're coming from, but I still don't think that makes it right. And out of my own curiosity, I turned it on and watched about fifteen minutes, and it was nothing earth-shattering or life-affirming that mattered that much. After two planes fly into a vast American monument, the details aren't that important anymore.

[This message has been edited by raindrops + sunshowers (edited 03-10-2002).]</font>

you, my friend, are and idiot.

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 11:24 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Ladies and gentlemen, I offer, for $3.99 a pound, a prime cut of Proof For What I Just Posted.

And Clint, I understand to a certain extent where you're coming from, but I still don't think that makes it right. And out of my own curiosity, I turned it on and watched about fifteen minutes, and it was nothing earth-shattering or life-affirming that mattered that much. After two planes fly into a vast American monument, the details aren't that important anymore.

[This message has been edited by raindrops + sunshowers (edited 03-10-2002).]</font>

if its not important why post against it? Wouldn't someone as intellectually above us idiots as you are view speaking to us minions as a waste of time?

bittertrance
03-10-2002, 11:25 PM
you should have edited the whole post...man you seem really heartless

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 11:25 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Travis Meeks:
you, my friend, are <font size=+2>and</font> idiot.</font>

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 11:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by bittertrance:
you should have edited the whole post...man you seem really heartless</font>

I know I must come off like that, but that's not what I intended.

Just ... God, I wish I could explain myself better. There's just something about watching something over and over that we already know happened that just IRKS me. Voyeurism. The same reason why shows like Survivor make me want to puke ... I am sure there are people watching this who genuinely care. Like Clint. I really don't give a shit that he's watching; I understand.

But CBS is providing a forum for the majority of America to watch because they think they HAVE to, because they feel some sort of sick obligation ...

Fuck. Can somebody at least understand where I'm coming from? If you knew me, "heartless" would be the last adjective you'd use, especially regarding 9/11. It fucking tore my world apart, man.

Travis Meeks
03-10-2002, 11:29 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Travis Meeks:
you, my friend, are an idiot.</font>

oops

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 11:35 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
I know I must come off like that, but that's not what I intended.

Just ... God, I wish I could explain myself better. There's just something about watching something over and over that we already know happened that just IRKS me. Voyeurism. The same reason why shows like Survivor make me want to puke ... I am sure there are people watching this who genuinely care. Like Clint. I really don't give a shit that he's watching; I understand.

But CBS is providing a forum for the majority of America to watch because they think they HAVE to, because they feel some sort of sick obligation ...

Fuck. Can somebody at least understand where I'm coming from? If you knew me, "heartless" would be the last adjective you'd use, especially regarding 9/11. It fucking tore my world apart, man.</font>

if you can understand why I want to watch why the fuck cant you understand why america wants to watch this? There are thousands of people who lost family members there, co-workers, etc there are MILLIONS of families who's sons and daughters are in the military and are doing whatever as a result of this. There are MILLIONS of parents who dont quite understand what went on that day that have kids to deal with.

august pumpkin
03-10-2002, 11:35 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Can somebody at least understand where I'm coming from? If you knew me, "heartless" would be the last adjective you'd use, especially regarding 9/11. It fucking tore my world apart, man.</font>

i see much better what you meant. but it came across so harshly. i think a lot of us needed to see this for some reason. my dad was in nyc that day, and it was so scary. i needed to see this. at least cbs is not showing commercials. god, that would be disgusting.

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"music was like an alarm clock for me as a teenager and still keeps me from falling asleep in the comfort of my freedom"-bono

If It Feels Good, Do Me
03-10-2002, 11:48 PM
You guys, especially Clint the Army wannabe and Travis the Wigger, need to fucking stop your attack on R + S right now. Just because someone does not agree with you doesnt give you the right to start bitching at them. He is making his points quite clearly.

This video is nothing more than a production of CBS with help from the Pentagon. Its main purpose is to get people riled up again about the bombings so that they will continue to rally behind Bush and keep supporting this war effort. That way, we can continue to send our troops overseas so that they can continue to get killed, not by enemies mind you, but by our own faulty machinery. Unfortunately, this will succeed in the same way that all of Bush's other actions have succeeded in riling up the public.

The Bush people obviously had a huge hand in this video and I can prove it. There were no commercials. I can guarantee you that CBS isn't airing this for free, so they have to be getting reimbursed by someone for airing this tonight. And that someone can only be the US government. Also, the promo shots with Ridge further prove that.



[This message has been edited by If It Feels Good, Do Me (edited 03-10-2002).]

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 11:51 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by If It Feels Good, Do Me:


The Bush people obviously had a huge hand in this video and I can prove it. There were no commercials. I can guarantee you that CBS isn't airing this for free, so they have to be getting reimbursed by someone for airing this tonight. And that someone can only be the US government. Also, the promo shots with Ridge further prove that.

[This message has been edited by If It Feels Good, Do Me (edited 03-10-2002).]</font>

it was sponsored by nextel you shining example of american youth

BlueStar
03-10-2002, 11:52 PM
That documentary showed footage that had never been seen before. It was a unique perspective. And a tribute to all the firefighters who did so much that day...and continue to do so much. If you watched DeNiro's thing there at the end, he said why the the filmmakers and CBS wanted this documentary to be shown. It was meant to be a showing of rememberance and strength and courage.

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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 11:55 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
if you can understand why I want to watch why the fuck cant you understand why america wants to watch this? There are thousands of people who lost family members there, co-workers, etc there are MILLIONS of families who's sons and daughters are in the military and are doing whatever as a result of this. There are MILLIONS of parents who dont quite understand what went on that day that have kids to deal with.</font>

Okay. Points conceeded. It still feels wrong, though; I can't explain why.

However, answer me this: I don't see how the documentary is going to make those millions of parents understand any better, though. I really don't. Maybe I've read more than the average American about what went down, but certainly as much as we squabble and disagree you have too, so ...

*sigh*

I just wish it had never happened in the first place.

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 11:57 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Okay. Points conceeded. It still feels wrong, though; I can't explain why.

However, answer me this: I don't see how the documentary is going to make those millions of parents understand any better, though. I really don't. Maybe I've read more than the average American about what went down, but certainly as much as we squabble and disagree you have too, so ...

*sigh*

I just wish it had never happened in the first place.</font>

see bluestars post

frail_and_bedazzled
03-10-2002, 11:57 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:


I just wish it had never happened in the first place.</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

Travis Meeks
03-10-2002, 11:57 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by If It Feels Good, Do Me:
Travis the Wigger

</font>

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif
wanna make out?

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:15 AM
<font color=00ff33>There is no reason that this should be shown? What the fuck is wrong with you?

If anything more than remembrance. Should we hide all of the texts on the holocaust. Or how about World War II, should we bury that all away, right next to our heads.

If I could beat the fuck out of you right now, I most definately would, asshole.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:17 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by If It Feels Good, Do Me:
...some stupid fucking ignorant post...
</font>
<font color=00ff33>Fuck you.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:19 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
I just wish it had never happened in the first place.</font><font color=00ff33>Then pretend it didn't.

Dumbass.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:24 AM
<font color=00ff33>You can either have half of the answers, with conflicting accounts. Or you can have a close to complete disclosure as possible.

A fucked up answer, or the truth. Laid out right before your eyes.

Mathboy
03-11-2002, 12:29 AM
It's all sort of a matter of processing this stuff. Some people are just going to want to see this sort of thing over and over again so that they can try to understand it, others won't want anything to do with it, a third group might begin to howl and gibber when they hear an airplane engine.

Personally, I thought it was pretty interesting. . . I watched the first hour and a half. . . until the two cameraman found each other. Just to sort of see all of that stuff from a different angle was worth it. . . I mean, inside the first tower -- that was amazing footage, as was the shot of the first plane, which I don't think I'd seen before. I didn't get to a T.V. until after tower 2 had come down, and didn't hear about it until the second plane had hit, so I thought it was really interesting to see sort of the early stages of things. The honesty and lack of sappiness in the narration and editing of the footage (for instance, the thuds of bodies hitting the street outside) gave the production enough integrity that it didn't feel voyeuristic to me. . . television at its best, I think.

frail_and_bedazzled
03-11-2002, 12:36 AM
i remember all the footage of the bodies falling out of the buildings. so fucking awful. and the stupid daily news was printing all sorts of awful things, like body parts mixed in amongst the rubble. of course, that was 6 months ago. most people i know are ok by now. i don't know. sometimes it still bothers me. i remember crying so much that day, i remember the smoke, i remember that fucking awful smell.
i remember thinking we were going to get nuked, poisoned, whatever. i remember taking the subway for the first time after then and that really creepy, cold feeling (literally cold) you got when you passed under the area that was once the world trade center (not directly under, mind you, but close enough). i remember having nightmares and not being able to sleep at night. i remember all those pictures of people who died plastered everywhere. i don't know what it matters, but it's still there. i don't know if we can even intellectualize about it now.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:51 AM
<font color=00ff33>You are so wrong.

<U>This is history</U>. It is a simple as that.

Jaggie
03-11-2002, 12:59 AM
Raindrops, you said one thing (along with many others, but this thing stuck out) that bothered me. You said this documentary will bring out the "nationalistic diatribes". We're in the midst of a war that too many people are forgetting the cause of. If anything, this documentary once again reinvigorated the reasons why we are sacrificing what we are now (in soldiers lives, intense security, etc.). I have no problems with churning up some nationalism. It's not even opinionated, it's the bare truth, just as it happened.

Whoever said this was an amazing documentary is right. My family knew the chaplain that died. Now I saw exactly what happened and it just proves to me how much these men and women were heroes.

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i wasted (http://www.jaggie.net) all my years, been chasing all my fears

nevermind
03-11-2002, 01:03 AM
you're all a bunch of fucking pathetic weak pusssies. people in other countries deal and have dealt with this shit happening in their very own towns for ages.

BOO FUCKING HOO for all you whiny pieces of shit. im glad it affected you this way. christ.

Mathboy
03-11-2002, 01:05 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by nevermind:
you're all a bunch of fucking pathetic weak pusssies. people in other countries deal and have dealt with this shit happening in their very own towns for ages.

BOO FUCKING HOO for all you whiny pieces of shit. im glad it affected you this way. christ.</font>

Nice troll. Very smoothe. No one even noticed.

raindrops + sunshowers
03-11-2002, 01:10 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Jaggie:
I have no problems with churning up some nationalism.</font>

Patriotism and nationalism are two very, very distinct things. And the post-9/11 response was bordering very dangerously on nationalism. It bothered me then, it bothers me now, and quite frankly, it bothers me that it doesn't bother other people.

And while I don't disagree with a military response in Afghanistan, I don't think we're handling things as well as we could be, especially domestically with a lot of the anti-terrorism legislation, but that's a post that's been done far too much on these boards, and a topic that I don't feel like getting too much into right about now. Maybe sometime later, if you're still up for debate.

But for now, I'm going to sleep. So in summation, I'll be honest: the documentary just doesn't feel right to me, although I will say that I do understand why people would have wanted to watch it, and I certainly would not want to infringe on CBS' right to air it (I don't know if it came off like I would, but I just realized somebody might think that, and it's not true at all.) And I really am sorry if I upset anybody.

(Except Aff, who just needs to shut the fuck up and take another hit of acid.)

Affectation
03-11-2002, 01:29 AM
<font color=00ff33>Fuck you. You seriously have the inability to use simple logic.

Acid doesn't calm people down much. You might want to learn a little more before you go out on limb.

A very fine job pulling the pus<fuckr>sy card tonight.

strange_one
03-11-2002, 01:59 AM
<font color=FF00FF> I wonder if it will get shown over here...?

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Travis Meeks
03-11-2002, 02:05 AM
wow, I actually agree with Affectation on all his points

Affectation
03-11-2002, 02:15 AM
<font color=00ff33>That's where intelligence gets you.

Undone
03-11-2002, 02:48 AM
<font color="CC33CC">My interp of what Chris was saying, not to put words in his mouth, is that there is an air of tastelessness in airing something like this which may have the tendency to be sensational by nature. Yes, it happened, just as people jumping out of the towers happened, but you can state things without having to show every morbid detail. You can talk about the Holocaust without showing an oven and pointing out so-and-so's burnt body parts.

Yeah, that's it, the morbidity is what bothers me. Sure we are all morbid, but some of it can be repressed out of a measure of respect for the dead. I didn't even know this doc existed b/c I never watch tv, so I can't judge what was presented.

And yes, I can see it being used to stir up the nation even moreso than it already is to back the current 'retaliation' plans. Though of course, we can't really know either way for a fact.

MisterSquishyHalo
03-11-2002, 03:45 AM
One word: Intense.

Just...I am glad I watched it tonight.

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Where are all the damn Dennys!

I Ate My Hamster
03-11-2002, 05:34 AM
I missed it. I'd like to see it.

So shoot me.

if there is a llama
03-11-2002, 09:38 AM
I have a couple of things I'd like to add.

First, to whoever asked, there are documentaries about Pearl Harbor on every December 7th or so. Its called the History Channel. This year they added a new perspective to the attack by featuring the rescue efforts afterwards.

Next, as with any historical source, you have to consider the intentions behind it. The producers and makers of this show had reasons for including the information that they did, but there was also information that was left out. The intentions behind the source will inevitably produce a bias in the content we are given. Was this meant to stir up national sentiment? Most likely. It is critical to think about why this program wanted to do that. I doubt that it was to make sure that September 11th is remebered. More likely the producers were capitalizing on the interest with Septemebr 11 and trying to get ratings. Also, it does seem as if the program intended to generate support for the Government and military.

Finally, to compare the September 11th attacks to the Holocaust is pure ignorance in my opinion. The Germans devoted an entire Bureaucracy to exterminating Jews (among others) in the midst of a multi-front war. American culture was never truly threatened by the September 11th attacks. If anything, most people would probably agree that the attacks strengthened "the American spirit." Meanwhile, 90% of the Jews in Europe were no longer around after World War II. The intent of the Holocaust was to bring about the end of Jewish culture.

David

your skies are mine
03-11-2002, 09:53 AM
anyone in the UK know if we're gonna get to see it anytime soon???

wounded
03-11-2002, 10:07 AM
the worst part was when they said all those crashing sounds were bodies.

lolita
03-11-2002, 10:22 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by strange_one:
<font color=FF00FF> I wonder if it will get shown over here...?

</font>

where are you ??

-Tragedy-
03-11-2002, 11:23 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by wounded:
the worst part was when they said all those crashing sounds were bodies.</font>

agreed.

El Scorcho
03-11-2002, 11:37 AM
http://members.aol.com/tributetoamerica/dontstopbelievin.html

Affectation
03-11-2002, 12:16 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by if there is a llama:


Finally, to compare the September 11th attacks to the Holocaust is pure ignorance in my opinion. The Germans devoted an entire Bureaucracy to exterminating Jews (among others) in the midst of a multi-front war. American culture was never truly threatened by the September 11th attacks. If anything, most people would probably agree that the attacks strengthened "the American spirit." Meanwhile, 90% of the Jews in Europe were no longer around after World War II. The intent of the Holocaust was to bring about the end of Jewish culture.

David</font><font color=00ff33>Holy shit. I used to think that at minimum, you were slightly intelligent, but apparently you are not. Of course there are many differences. As well as quite a few correlations.

You're trying to pull off something like saying, "yeah, they don't have the planes in the buildings in the holocaust. They aren't the same."

The correlation is that quite a few people lost family in both events. Both were tragedies. And both left an entire planet with more questions than answers.

Grow the fuck up, imbecile.

your skies are mine
03-11-2002, 12:58 PM
sorry, but I think you're talking out of your arse. on a world-wide scale the September 11th attacks will never percieved as anywhere near as awfully tradgic as the holocaust. a whole entire race was almost fucking wiped-out for fuck sake, how the fuck can anyone comepare the two!?!?!?!? innocent people died in a shit way, that's the only thing the two have in common.

BlueStar
03-11-2002, 01:27 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by if there is a llama:
The producers and makers of this show had reasons for including the information that they did, but there was also information that was left out. The intentions behind the source will inevitably produce a bias in the content we are given.</font>

What exactly was left out? I think they showed quite a bit. It was a documentary created by two French guys who were following around some firefighters with the intention of making a documentary about firefighters. It was never meant to be something about 9-11...but it happened that way because they happened to be following around the firefighters that day. It wasn't a documentary put together by a bunch of different film people, thus, enabling all kind of different sides of the story to be shown...it was just the footage from those French guys.



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AIM: MercuryAdore

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Mathboy
03-11-2002, 01:43 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by if there is a llama:
Next, as with any historical source, you have to consider the intentions behind it. The producers and makers of this show had reasons for including the information that they did, but there was also information that was left out. The intentions behind the source will inevitably produce a bias in the content we are given. Was this meant to stir up national sentiment? Most likely. It is critical to think about why this program wanted to do that. I doubt that it was to make sure that September 11th is remebered. More likely the producers were capitalizing on the interest with Septemebr 11 and trying to get ratings. Also, it does seem as if the program intended to generate support for the Government and military.
</font>


I'd like to hear some more detailed evidence to support your assertions. I thought the editing of the footage was very brutal and for the most part without pretense. What, precisely, are you arguing that they left out? The carnival? Kitties getting rescued from trees? As one of the cops on said on camera, it wasn't fucking disneyland down there, so I don't think anybody was hiding anything. If you're gonna run around making claims like "information was left out" then you have to back them up. Obviously watching the documentary was a different experience from watching unedited footage, as cuts were made, but what do you think you weren't being shown?

Travis Meeks
03-11-2002, 01:56 PM
I think half the people in this thread haven't even seen it.

tootsie
03-11-2002, 03:04 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by your skies are mine:
sorry, but I think you're talking out of your arse. on a world-wide scale the September 11th attacks will never percieved as anywhere near as awfully tradgic as the holocaust. a whole entire race was almost fucking wiped-out for fuck sake, how the fuck can anyone comepare the two!?!?!?!? innocent people died in a shit way, that's the only thing the two have in common. </font>


agreed. as for the documentary......i didnt watch it. all these programs, tributes, sticker, etc are cheapening the lives lost, in a way.

at least to me.



[This message has been edited by tootsie (edited 03-11-2002).]

Ketchup
03-11-2002, 05:10 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
who gives a fuck?</font>

Eulogy
03-11-2002, 05:20 PM
I think I'm gonna go watch it now.

(I taped it)

raindrops + sunshowers
03-11-2002, 05:59 PM
"As with any historical source ... "

That sums it up right there. I don't know how many of you have worked in publications or the media before, but it's quite amazing how much one omitted word or added detail can completely change an entire article. We once had to change the word "about" to "regarding" in the paper order to avoid being threatened with a libel suit. I'm not saying the documentary was biased. From what I've seen, it wasn't. However, it's also not fair to completely dismiss the possibility. (Conspiracy theories of the government having a hand in it, however, are just bunk. Unless you're a socialist.)

Aff: Whenever we do any of these "what do you think about me?" posts, I generally get the same few things: "androgyny" from the people who don't like me due to my user name and "precise intelligence" or "logical" from the people who do. And obviously, you failed to put two and two together and realize that my comment on acid was meant to be ironic, mostly to dismiss you. A good friend of mine has tried every drug in the book, and I've seen her on most of them. I know my shit. How's that for illogic?

And, finally, thank you to Rhonda, who sort of got at what I was trying to say, and certainly said it better than I did.

BlueStar
03-11-2002, 06:17 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tootsie:

all these programs, tributes, sticker, etc are cheapening the lives lost, in a way.
</font>

This particular program didn't.



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~~Samantha~~
AIM: MercuryAdore

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~sag249/sigankle.jpg

Affectation
03-11-2002, 08:25 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by your skies are mine:
sorry, but I think you're talking out of your arse. on a world-wide scale the September 11th attacks will never percieved as anywhere near as awfully tradgic as the holocaust. a whole entire race was almost fucking wiped-out for fuck sake, how the fuck can anyone comepare the two!?!?!?!? innocent people died in a shit way, that's the only thing the two have in common. </font>

<font color=00ff33>I'm pleased that you included, "I think..." That basically sums up everything that you posted.

Contrary to your belief, there is no "Jewish race."

Are you trying to tell me that tragedies shouldn't be handled in the same way? Simply because a, in your eyes, mere 3000 people perished, we shouldn't desire to know the answers as to exactly what happened?

Get back to your blocks and crayons, and after you learn a little more, we can have a debate. Scrub.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 08:29 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
Aff: Whenever we do any of these "what do you think about me?" posts, I generally get the same few things: "androgyny" from the people who don't like me due to my user name and "precise intelligence" or "logical" from the people who do. And obviously, you failed to put two and two together and realize that my comment on acid was meant to be ironic, mostly to dismiss you. A good friend of mine has tried every drug in the book, and I've seen her on most of them. I know my shit. How's that for illogic?

</font><font color=00ff33>It's nice to know that you base your "precise intelligence" on the opinions of others. I've yet to see anything other than your trademark copy and paste arguments.

Very nice.

Mayfuck
03-11-2002, 10:14 PM
Hey, let's save the argument for when they premiere September 11th, the Made-for-TV Movie.

trine
03-11-2002, 10:45 PM
I love the assholes on this thread asserting (with a retarded pretentious attitude) "I don't feel like watching it". If you dont watch it, no one else should want to. (Does the fucking word "selfish" ring a bell to you??)

And it was hardly a "movie of the week" prelude.

If'n ya didn't watch it, shuddup.

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raindrops + sunshowers
03-11-2002, 11:24 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Affectation:
I've yet to see anything other than your trademark copy and paste arguments.</font>

People like you exist in the real world?

And Julio: only if I get to play George Bush.

Affectation
03-11-2002, 11:54 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by raindrops + sunshowers:
People like you exist in the real world?

</font>
<font color=00ff33>You are already owned. Give it up.

Undone
03-11-2002, 11:59 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Affectation:
<font color=00ff33>Holy shit. I used to think that at minimum, you were slightly intelligent, but apparently you are not. Of course there are many differences. As well as quite a few correlations.

You're trying to pull off something like saying, "yeah, they don't have the planes in the buildings in the holocaust. They aren't the same."

The correlation is that quite a few people lost family in both events. Both were tragedies. And both left an entire planet with more questions than answers.

Grow the fuck up, imbecile.</font>


<font color="CC33CC">1. Invective rarely, if ever, adds to the credulity of an argument.
2. He said nothing that hinted towards, at least in my eyes, there being a contest between which event was more tragic for families and friends.
3. My interp of llama's statement was that there was a government that set up an entire system to wipe out a large segment of its own population, and this isn't the case for 9-11, therefore perhaps the events needn't be compared except through the basis of a each being tragedies.


[This message has been edited by Undone (edited 03-11-2002).]

Eulogy
03-12-2002, 12:01 AM
um...I watched about half of it, I guess.

All I learned was that bodies hitting the ground from really high up make loud crashing noises.

What exactly was the point of this? To remind people what happened? Who really forgot?

I don't have a problem with it or anything...but it just seems kind of pointless. Or something.

frail_and_bedazzled
03-12-2002, 12:02 AM
al-quada(sp?) might as well be a goverment, though. it practically operates like one.

Samsa
03-12-2002, 12:05 AM
yes. jesus christ. thank god for steven. (good god why does it have to be v instead of ph though)

anyways. chris did you even watch the documentary? good god

anyways... lama, whatever your name is, you said, i dunno i didn't really read your post. but you said something along the lines that it incites nationalism and discrimination by not giving every side to the story, or whatever

see, this is what the difference is between voyeurism and..maybe the "truth"

there was no political commentary on this documentary. it was, simply, a documentary. it was "this is what happened" no "this is why it happened", simply "this is HOW it happened, and how it happened from MY point of view"

which is really what made it so beautiful. i mean the main point of the documentary was simply that, like at one point they had a clip of a george dubya speech speaking about all the firefighters who died and he said something like "they did not why these attacks happened, or who did them, they simply knew their duty" and that was the point

i mean it was stressed so many times...they kept showing them inside the lobby of the world trade center, with these perplexed looks on their face, and chief so and so or so and so said over and over "all the rest of the nation was hearing news reports about hijacked airplanes and terrorism, and we hadn't heard any of that. we had no idea what was going on."

and that's simply ... what makes it the truth. i guess. it was a very beautiful documentary and i'd like to watch it again.

oh personal note: that was fucking unbelievable. how they caught that. how they caught the planes flying into the building. it was...surreal even. like the first time when one of the brothers is whith firemen checking out some gas meter, and there's this loud jet sound and the firemen look up sort of curiously , and then the camera looks up and there's a jet flying into the wtc, and one of the guys goes "holy SHIT"

and then the second time with the other brother, when everyone's out on the street looking at the first fire, and it happens AGAIN. and people go "holy SHIT" . and there was that great conversation with one man going "yeah it was an airplane. i saw it" and the other man is like "it was an airplane?" "yeah. an airplane"

completely unbiased. it's journalism at its best. i don't see what the problem is.

Affectation
03-12-2002, 12:20 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Undone:

<font color="CC33CC">1. Invective rarely, if ever, adds to the credulity of an argument.
2. He said nothing that hinted towards, at least in my eyes, there being a contest between which event was more tragic for families and friends.
3. My interp of llama's statement was that there was a government that set up an entire system to wipe out a large segment of its own population, and this isn't the case for 9-11, therefore perhaps the events needn't be compared except through the basis of a each being tragedies.

</font><font color=00ff33>That is just ridiculously ignorant to say. <u>It's obvious that you can't see the big picture in all of this</U>. The argued point is that both of these events left an entire planet with questions. You can argue thousands of points that separate the two. And you have done a very fine job there pointing out two. Thumbs up to you.

Regardless, people want to know answers, and they want to know the truth. The holocaust was unquestionably a tragedy. But being such, should we bury it away? Just like the small majority of idiots on this board want to do?