View Full Version : Is it me or do we need to wake the fuck up?


liarsclub
03-07-2002, 08:36 AM
We sit and sit idle, watching bullshit and so calloused our ass is that we have become numb to it, causing us to ignore it. Fuck - does anybody else notice the building tension around us? Tariffs on steel, causing even Allies to get pissed...Israel and Palestine are about to eliminate each other, along with India and Pakistan, while we lie on our couches, eating Doritos and watching Canada's skating couple on Rosie.
Hey - our government is running shadow a government for the first time EVER (not even in the midst of the Cold War did the government instill this option) in fear of an attack - most likely, a nuclear attack of sorts - a dirty bomb, anyone? Nuclear threats - our government is preparing, but doesn't bother to inform its public of the threat - only "watch out for brown middle-eastern types" - guess what?! I live in fucking Arizona and EVERYONE is brown! Why do we have to watch out? Didn't we elect all you fucks to put aside the bullshit and not only run our country, but also to protect it?! We have the Republicans calling the Democrats obstructionists and the Democrats calling the Republicans corporate whores - what the fuck? It's like a playground - just run the fucking country and shut up! You’re not paid to be media bitches by calling other politicians names! No parties - no bullshit - there should be NO reason why it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to be president without belonging to a party – and why the fuck does everyone ALWAYS have to vote according to their party? Isn't this what we are supposed to avoid? - the idea of falling in line? - no voice, no opinion, no questions, no thought.

Why can't there be a prime time show that just says what everybody else is thinking? I mean, why can't anyone just say, "hey, what the fuck?!" on national television? Not only tell it like it is, but keep telling it. People like scandals - the world is full of them - especially within governments – people will tune in, no?! Talk about the bullshit that goes on - inform.

We have Bush telling the whole world that he wants to see transparent governments when, in fact, our government isn't even transparent to its public. And don't think I'm just ragging on Bush and shit - fuck, Clinton did his shit too - every president has - and that's the problem. It just happens that it's getting worse with Bush - and to a point that it's frightening - it's obvious around the world. You can't call other countries evil and expect then to have a meeting with one of them. And, isn't this the same type of RHETORIC that other countries use on us, calling the United States the Devil?!

And Bush and his rhetoric - first, abortion. Quick and simple - Bush says, "we need to protect our UNBORN CHILDREN with the law." - next, the government wants to change the title of an UNBORN FETUS to an UNBORN CHILD. Any relation?

Women - get your heads out of your asses because you're about to lose your right to choose – you want to have that kid? Well, you’re not allowed to make a mistake – have to have the kid – sorry!

And let's see. While we're talking about women, why don't we talk about Bush's 300 million dollars he's spending on his "marriage proposal package", in which the government is spending money to encourage young single mothers to get married. Yes, ladies, you heard me - don't go on welfare - get married. Don't pay any attention to love - get married for financial purposes. Oh, yeah - I forgot - 50% of young single mothers are under the age of 18. So, you high school girls – since, soon enough, you will not have the choice to KEEP the baby or NOT, you will not only HAVE to have the kid, but you better get married ASAP so you can live comfortably in the arms of a man who will probably leave you after you have your second child because our black male youth - yes, the INNOCENT black male youth - never had quality role models to follow (the Voice was cut off on April 4, 1968), and it's almost a given that the father is going to leave at some point. As of 1994, black and latino single mothers were 75% more likely to be poor than white single mothers. So, if you're a black or hispanic high school girl - not only will you NOT have the RIGHT to choose whether you want to have a child or not, but we are going to spend $300,000,000.00 on encouraging you to get married - don't worry about love - just worry about getting married so your husband can either leave you or you can get divorced like 50% of married couples do - then, you can have two kids and less opportunity - oh yeah, $110 million is going to educate you (now, after the fact) about abstinence. Hey – how about that $300,000,000.00 going to helping to educate inner city youth, period?! You know, instead of constructing elaborate websites about abstinence, why don’t we just buy computers for the students of inner city high schools who still have books from the 70’s?

Here’s another kicker, related to money disbursement – 19.2 billion dollars will be spent each year fighting the war on drugs (only 320 million for treatment). Does this seem right to anyone else? Part of that money is being used to fight a cash crop that not only would bring in a large amount of revenue, but isn’t even as harmful to your health as cigarettes and alcohol are. $19,200,000,000.00 to fight drugs.

Meanwhile, our politicians are making money off of corporations that are making money off of their own employees' retirement funds. Funny - taking money from retirement funds to invest and, hopefully, save the company - oh, wait - they lost – company bankrupt – people lost their futures – while the heads made millions by selling before the fall. Now, our government wants to BORROW money from social security - our retirement money - to help boost our economy. Ummmmm...

Agree or disagree with the politics, but I'm sure we can all agree that there's something awfully wrong in this whole mess we call our world. Even if our government was treating us right, they are treating the rest of the world like shit. Fact is, it's doing both and making it more and more dangerous for us. I don't think it's far from the United States becoming Palestine/Israel - meaning, suicide bombings at concerts, bars, street corners, buses, movie theaters, malls, etc. And, there is enough nuclear material out there that's unaccounted for to create some really disturbing outcomes. Just a suitcase full of C-4 explosives with a pound of radioactive material can take out a lot of people in a busy city like yours.

I'm tired and I just licked the tip of the iceberg. I probably was so random that none of this made sense – if that was the case, I’m sorry you read all the way through. Anybody else feel like ranting about anything related to our country/society/government/world?

I think we've sat idle enough...

The Patient
03-07-2002, 08:39 AM
He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him.

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.

So loud.
You sure could yell.
You took a stand on every little thing
And so loud.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you fuckin lie.

Don't you step out of line.
Don't you fuckin lie.

You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy?

You had alot to say.
You had alot of nothing to say.

Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies.
Goodbye...




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http://www.canoe.ca/MusicImagesT/tool2_160.jpg http://www.michaelmuir.com/reviewpics/music/tool_lateralus.jpg http://www.9inchnails.net/remix-files/pictures/maynard.jpg
aim - shesellsmelsd

The Patient
03-07-2002, 08:41 AM
CLOWNS!

http://www.redhat.com/img/clowns.jpg

what were you saying again? i wasn't listening. cuz i don't care.

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http://www.canoe.ca/MusicImagesT/tool2_160.jpg http://www.michaelmuir.com/reviewpics/music/tool_lateralus.jpg http://www.9inchnails.net/remix-files/pictures/maynard.jpg
aim - shesellsmelsd

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 08:44 AM
Are you that much of a baby? You put an offensive picture in the last one for whatever reason (because you couldn't answer anything I said?) and now you try to insult me for talking about the problems everyone in the world shares? Are you serious or really that ignorant?

jenny4ever
03-07-2002, 08:44 AM
yea well i say fuck israel-ariel sharon is a fucking nutcase and while palestinians need to stop suicide bombers he needs to give them their fucking land and we need to encourage that. im constantly confused about why the average american sides so much with the israeli's.

as for bush. he's hopeless.

The Patient
03-07-2002, 08:46 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Are you that much of a baby? You put an offensive picture in the last one for whatever reason (because you couldn't answer anything I said?) and now you try to insult me for talking about the problems everyone in the world shares? Are you serious or really that ignorant?</font>

couldn't answer, didn't feel the need to answer. i guess it's the same thing.

fuckin a man. what exactly are you trying to get out of this?

and what was so offensive about that pic? everyone poops... and eats it... everyone eats it... right?


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http://www.canoe.ca/MusicImagesT/tool2_160.jpg http://www.michaelmuir.com/reviewpics/music/tool_lateralus.jpg http://www.9inchnails.net/remix-files/pictures/maynard.jpg
aim - shesellsmelsd

The Patient
03-07-2002, 08:47 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:


I think we've sat idle enough...</font>

posting on netphoria. what a huge step.

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http://www.canoe.ca/MusicImagesT/tool2_160.jpg http://www.michaelmuir.com/reviewpics/music/tool_lateralus.jpg http://www.9inchnails.net/remix-files/pictures/maynard.jpg
aim - shesellsmelsd

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 08:47 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
yea well i say fuck israel-ariel sharon is a fucking nutcase and while palestinians need to stop suicide bombers he needs to give them their fucking land and we need to encourage that. im constantly confused about why the average american sides so much with the israeli's.

as for bush. he's hopeless.

</font>

I'd agree with that...

jenny4ever
03-07-2002, 08:53 AM
did you by any chance hear the details about the car israel bombed thinking it was a some hamas(sp?) leader? well it was actually his wife and kids they killed-they said their bodies were in peices and they also showed some footage. . .it made me sick.

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 09:00 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
did you by any chance hear the details about the car israel bombed thinking it was a some hamas(sp?) leader? well it was actually his wife and kids they killed-they said their bodies were in peices and they also showed some footage. . .it made me sick.</font>

I didn't see that, but I have been watching footage of other shit that's been happening - it's just unbelievable. Unfortunately, for the first time (for us), it is something we'll be seeing soon on our nightly news casts, on our streets...

<font color="black">

[This message has been edited by liarsclub (edited 03-07-2002).]

Never_Nohen
03-07-2002, 11:25 AM
*hugs yuo* that almost made me cry. thank you. do you mind if i post that to a couple of lists i'm on?

Smiley33
03-07-2002, 11:32 AM
*pats you* I'm going to email that to my friends and my Bush-supporting grandparents. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif Can I have your first name or something so I can give due credit?

nevermind...found it on your website.

------------------
there was a time when you let me know
what's really going on below but now you never show that to me do ya

[This message has been edited by Smiley33 (edited 03-07-2002).]

Best Looking Boy
03-07-2002, 11:37 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by The Patient:
He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

So long.
We wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well then, so long.
Don't cry.
Or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity.
But at least you tried.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice that was strong and loud.
We'll miss him.
Ranting and pointing his finger
At everything but his heart.
We'll miss him.

No way to recall
What it was that you had said to me,
Like I care at all.

So loud.
You sure could yell.
You took a stand on every little thing
And so loud.

Standing above the crowd,
He had a voice so strong and loud and I
Swallowed his facade cuz I'm so
Eager to identify with
Someone above the ground,
Someone who seemed to feel the same,
Someone prepared to lead the way, with
Someone who would die for me.

Will you? Will you now?
Would you die for me?
Don't you fuckin lie.

Don't you step out of line.
Don't you fuckin lie.

You've claimed all this time that you would die for me.
Why then are you so surprised to hear your own eulogy?

You had alot to say.
You had alot of nothing to say.

Come down.
Get off your fuckin cross.
We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

To ascend you must die.
You must be crucified
For your sins and your lies.
Goodbye...
</font>
TOOL 4EVER!

Best Looking Boy
03-07-2002, 11:38 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by The Patient:
posting on netphoria. what a huge step.

</font>
MAYNARd = god

The Patient
03-07-2002, 11:44 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">
MAYNARd = god

</font>

yea yea, i'm very impressed.

ha ha. look at me, i like tool.

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http://www.canoe.ca/MusicImagesT/tool2_160.jpg http://www.michaelmuir.com/reviewpics/music/tool_lateralus.jpg http://www.9inchnails.net/remix-files/pictures/maynard.jpg
aim - shesellsmelsd

bittertrance
03-07-2002, 12:18 PM
doesn't anyone realize that the president has very little to do with how the government is run?

Smiley33
03-07-2002, 12:22 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by bittertrance:
doesn't anyone realize that the president has very little to do with how the government is run?</font>


he chose to be the figurehead, so he should be ready to take the blame.

FOO!


------------------
there was a time when you let me know
what's really going on below but now you never show that to me do ya

bittertrance
03-07-2002, 12:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Smiley33:

he chose to be the figurehead, so he should be ready to take the blame.

FOO!


</font>


dont foo me, sucka

can you dig it??

Smiley33
03-07-2002, 12:30 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by bittertrance:

dont foo me, sucka

can you dig it??</font>

damn boy, sheeit! i can dig it! you a crazy mothafucka.



------------------
there was a time when you let me know
what's really going on below but now you never show that to me do ya

FearFactory
03-07-2002, 12:36 PM
<font color="orange">I think the scariest part of all is that this is the first time I've agreed completely with everything you've said.

The sad thing is, nothing will change. People will say "I want to put a stop to this!" but after a couple days, a couple weeks, a couple months... they'll drop it and find something else to rally for. I don't have the greatest faith in people's abilities to stick to things.
</font>
<font color="red">

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http://raversaregay.homestead.com/files/USA.gif
I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow

Stupid&Contagious
03-07-2002, 05:04 PM
*walks by you* That almost made me care. wait...no it didn't. Do you mind if send that to a bunch of my friends who will get all riled up go out do nothing because of it?

Smiley33
03-07-2002, 05:05 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Stupid&Contagious:
Do you mind if send that to a bunch of my friends who will get all riled up go out do nothing because of it? </font>


welcome to journalism?

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 05:43 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by bittertrance:
doesn't anyone realize that the president has very little to do with how the government is run?</font>

I would have to disagree with that notion. I mean, he IS the leader of this country - and he may not be the sole voice in his administration *whew*, but he is a symbol of our country as a whole. That symbol is most accurately represented by its administration, which is constructed by a particular political party (in this case, Republicans, but Democrats do that same thing) - a political party consisting of representatives that the People have elected. Now, if the People, the workers at the bottom of the pyramid - if they - us - we - if we would try to elect people other than representatives like Jesse Helms, then there's a chance. Jesse fucking Helms - here, let me just shed some light on this:

After Helms announced his retirement, here's what Bush had to say (taken from newsobserver.com):

"The Senate is losing an institution with the decision of Jesse Helms to retire after three decades of distinguished public service," President Bush said in a statement. "Senator Helms went to Washington, but he never became a part of Washington. He has always remained true to his conservative principles and to the people of North Carolina who elected him five times."

Now, here are some things that Helms, himself, has said over the course of his five stints in the Senate (taken from strangecosmos.com):

On The Senate: "I've never heard once in this chamber anybody say to the homosexuals, 'Stop what you're doing.' If they would stop what they're doing there would not be one additional case of AIDS in the United States."

"The New York Times and The Washington Post are both infested with homosexuals themselves."

From a 1996 fund raising mailer: "Your tax dollars are being used to pay for grade-school classes that teach our children that CANNIBALISM, WIFE-SWAPPING and MURDER of infants and the elderly are acceptable behavior."

In response to Duke University students holding a vigil after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination in 1968: "They should ask their parents if it would be all right for their son or daughter to marry a Negro."

I can go on, but I don't want to take over this post with just Jesse Helms quotes. The point being, this is the kind of shit that is STILL being voted into our government. I'm not sure if I understand how or why these people are elected, but WE elect them! Wake up!

I also am not sure if I understand the whole "it's pointless - nothing will change" idea. If nothing changes, then why did women fight for their rights? Or blacks fight for simple equality (as humans) rights? If your mother was sick with cancer and there was a chance of her dying, would you give up and tell the doctors to back off with no attempt at treatment so she can just die - without even TRYING to help?!

And if it's all pointless, why not just have a dictatorship? Do you not have a voice? Isn't that one of the things that America is noted for? - LAND OF OPPORTUNITY - you can truly do anything in this country if you try hard enough - there is evidence of this all over the place - just open your eyes.

It's all about what you're willing to sacrifice - if you're not wiling to give anything, then no, nothing will happen. But, don't tell me that nothing will happen even if we DO do something. If you can't inspire change in others - fuck, inspire yourself to change - so you can make an immediate impact on the lives of people around you - your family, friends, son, daughter - are you going to tell your daughter that she can't do what she wants to do when she grows up because it's all pointless?! Of course you won't - you'll be somewhat of an adult by then and have a little different outlook on life - a little less selfish outlook. Responsibilities may ******* taking care of a child, whom YOU are in charge of molding, so are you going to help that child grow, or stunt its growth all because you don't want to bother yourself in the middle of watching Will and Grace – which, happens to be a show about gays, but a show so far from reality that it's a slap in the face to actual homosexuals - a show for the heterosexual, ignorant, television-watching public, so they can attempt to assimilate to a basic fact of life and also, still, ignore the struggle of homosexuals in our society. Do you want to go on to the subject of blacks, white males, women, children, latinos, asian, etc. in our society?

This generation is lazy, plain and simple - mainly because we have nothing to do. Well, there is a lot to do besides watching Fear Factor. Now, of course, I would never expect anyone to stop their daily activities and go full force into helping out a struggle, but I don't think it's too difficult to just turn on a news channel and listen - or, just turn the television off and just sit and think - or, listen to music, but that's it - don't be surfing the web or doing laundry - just listen.

I have a feeling a change is coming. I see signs, but it's teetering back and forth. The arts for example - in film, studio films are becoming less popular, while independent film is growing and getting stronger - it's a classic example of the corporate world - the money - the power - being overthrown and taken down slowly by the independent voice of the individual - everybody has a right to tell their story and bet your fucking ass that nobody is going to stop them/us now. Rock Music - a more simplistic form of music is pushing upward - a White Stripes type of simplicity - basics - blues - garage-sound - and an inner voice that howls like the unheard, collective words of the world - dead and alive. Pop will always be, but another revolution in rock is coming - when you see big, successful musicians like Trent Reznor and Billy Corgan going back to basics, you should be able to assume that music is on the move and it's going to spit everyone in the face when it comes round. I wish I knew more about gallery art or contemporary literature (including poetry) to see if there's a relation to this “basics” idea, but honestly, I don't - if anyone can give examples of how it relates or doesn't relate, it would be much appreciated! Fashion - everything, for the past couple years, has been going back to basics - straight colors - blue, black, white - a simple collection of classic styles all merging into one.

The society is also pushing away religion more and more - here comes the teeter. We actually need religion in our society, but the idea of stepping back and re-evaluating the religious system (when is the Catholic church going to police their own organization and weed out child molesters?!) is a good idea. If only Christians, Jews, and Muslims could realize that they all worship the same idea, just with different ****phors, in which, those stories and ideas are told. Tibetan monks have found that peace - all religions say the same thing - find that peace - love thy enemy - etc. If they're so involved and deeply religious, why can't they, just once, follow that basic, fundamental idea of loving your enemy? Fuck, it's not easy to do and I'm guilty of hating my enemies too, but it's an ongoing struggle within myself and I think I have much room for improvement in my character - and I'm not even religious! But, it's such a BASIC idea that needs to be grasped before they can move on and I see that happening – slowly, but it’s moving.

A good example of people not caring and giving up prematurely and blaming others while doing nothing comes from the recent news: a girl dies after overdosing on ecstasy. Now, the father of that girl is suing the friends and a friend's mother in a wrongful death suit. Okay, I understand that he's upset and yes, you would think the friends should've been more responsible, but fuck, they are 16! They're not doctors - I'm SURE those friends didn't anticipate the girl DYING. Either way, to be in that situation you have to lack the knowledge or just be blatantly irresponsible – now, the girl gets her tendencies mainly from her parents - the parents are the first contact and the prominent teachers in a child's life, for the most part, no?! Instead of trying to ruin other people's lives now, why doesn't the father deal with the fact that he did not discourage his daughter enough, OR, inform the daughter enough to avoid this situation? The girl didn't know any better - should the other 16 year old's have or should the father have? It's like blaming the gun manufacturers if a 6-year-old kills their 2-year-old brother with a gun they found in daddy's closet. Raise your kids - you can't expect everyone else in society to be liable for everything that happens to your children - you DO have some responsibility.

Well, I've ranted WAY too much AGAIN - sorry guys - I just need to vent - I would love to hear what you all have to say about everything too, so speak up!

Lastly, I feel like I should thank smiley33 and Becca for the compliments, but I'm not a fan of bringing that type of attention to myself – I do appreciate the words of encouragement though. I don't mind if you copy and paste what I've said, but I would really enjoy it if YOU wrote your thoughts down on the subject(s) and sent them or posted them as well http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif...

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 05:47 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Stupid&Contagious:
*walks by you* That almost made me care. wait...no it didn't. Do you mind if send that to a bunch of my friends who will get all riled up go out do nothing because of it? </font>

Even though you claim not to care, it made you think enough about it to the point where you had to post a response saying how much you didn't care about it...

Nate the Grate
03-07-2002, 06:22 PM
A New Kind of Army

LOOK BACK...on history, nothing much has changed
THOUSANDS...of soldiers of all countries, all marching the same
Every nation's leader says that our side is right
Every nation's leader says the time has come to fight
But they use the common people, to settle their scores
It's time that we refuse to fight in any of their wars!

We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to die
We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to kill...
for you!

JOIN NOW...the ranks of all nations who refuse to go to war
REFUSE...to pull the trigger of a gun for leaders 'round the world
I'd rather fight to spread some tolerance and unity
Than buy into their nationalistic brainwashing
Killing mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, common human beings
Not savages but people, like you, like me!

We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to die
We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to kill...
for you!
We're looking for a few good men
We're looking for a few good women
Who are not afraid to fight against tyranny
But refuse to fight...with tyranny

REFUSE!!!

We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to die
We're looking to start a new kind of army, (that's) too smart to fight, too
smart to kill...
for you!

bittertrance
03-07-2002, 06:35 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
I would have to disagree with that notion. I mean, he IS the leader of this country - and he may not be the sole voice in his administration *whew*, but he is a symbol of our country as a whole. That symbol is most accurately represented by its administration, which is constructed by a particular political party (in this case, Republicans, but Democrats do that same thing) - .</font>


i am talking mostly about things we dont see, you are talking about things that are flaunted or allowed to be seen by the public. at the end of the day, the president has less power than we think he does. he is a figurehead, a symbol...nothing more and nothing less.

Samsa
03-07-2002, 06:48 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jenny4ever:
yea well i say fuck israel-ariel sharon is a fucking nutcase and while palestinians need to stop suicide bombers he needs to give them their fucking land and we need to encourage that. im constantly confused about why the average american sides so much with the israeli's.

as for bush. he's hopeless.

</font>

you're a fucking idiot.

frail_and_bedazzled
03-07-2002, 06:53 PM
people don't care because they don't have to. until we (the majority, that is) are scared shitless enough to pay attention, will we. 2 buildings collapsing in some other city is scary, but is it enough to really change the way you live your life? i'd say to even half of new yorkers it isn't.

so???

tweedyburd
03-07-2002, 07:10 PM
Where you been fool? This place has sucked without you, Becca, and Rhino being around much...

I don't think I've ever seen you post what shot straight out of your gut like this. Good points, though I can't say I agree with all the criticism (particularly on the tariff debate)--of which I may or may not get around to thoughtfully debating about.

At any rate, good post. Glad to see you're back.

tweedyburd
03-07-2002, 07:16 PM
our government is running shadow a government... in fear of an attack - most likely, a nuclear attack of sorts - a dirty bomb, anyone? Nuclear threats - our government is preparing, but doesn't bother to inform its public of the threat

Aside from being completely aghast at the revelation that New York was possibly under nuclear threat back in October and how the government didn't breath a word of it to us, I can understand why they may choose not leak out every tiny possibility of threat to the public. It's the classic Peter and the Wolf story. People are just going to become conditioned to expect, "Oh, so they issued another warning. What's on ESPN?"

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 08:32 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tweedyburd:
our government is running shadow a government... in fear of an attack - most likely, a nuclear attack of sorts - a dirty bomb, anyone? Nuclear threats - our government is preparing, but doesn't bother to inform its public of the threat

Aside from being completely aghast at the revelation that New York was possibly under nuclear threat back in October and how the government didn't breath a word of it to us, I can understand why they may choose not leak out every tiny possibility of threat to the public. It's the classic Peter and the Wolf story. People are just going to become conditioned to expect, "Oh, so they issued another warning. What's on ESPN?" </font>

I understand that the public cannot know everything that goes on, but telling the public to watch out for suspicious looking people or activities, without informing us about anything other than "there's a serious warning" is pushing it, but to keep it from top dog's in Washington, like Daschele, is it bit scary. The way I saw it was that this was the most serious threat we've had to date, being that those in charge decided to organize the shadow government - I'm making this judgement on the actions of the government, that's all. I could have a skewed perception of it, but I'm not sure if it all fits so nicely - I mean, if the majority Senate leader doesn't know about this shadow government, then who's in it and why tell us now if we are still under major threats?!

And about people disregarding threats - in the 50's and 60's, people lived in the fear of the Reds launching bombs on us - bomb drills were common - you all can ask your parents about that. I'm not sure if that fear ever subsided because of the constance of the threat - and they didn't even realize what a nuclear bomb would do to them! I can't really speculate how people are going to take future threats if they know what those threats are or not, but I think if there is a credible threat, we need to be aware of it - use the Ground Zero air comtamination problem as an example of people who's health is going to suffer because they weren't told about the high level of toxins in the air - "just work - it looks good on the news." These are people - we are people - we all need to be informed of dangers to us - to our country, which does mean, to our world. I know there's a fine line of what should or shouldn't be kept secret, but can't we re-evaluate what that line is - or even just define it?!

Also, keeping secrets isn't something our government should be doing, while they criticize other governments about transparency. It's awfully hypocritical.

frail_and_bedazzled
03-07-2002, 08:39 PM
fuck. any semi-intelligent new yorker knew we were under threat of a nuclear attack.

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 08:49 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by frail_and_bedazzled:
people don't care because they don't have to. until we (the majority, that is) are scared shitless enough to pay attention, will we. 2 buildings collapsing in some other city is scary, but is it enough to really change the way you live your life? i'd say to even half of new yorkers it isn't.

so???</font>

Hence the idea of waking up, so we don't have to have another huge incident for things to change - we need to take the initiative and snap out of this La-La Land we've been living in. If we can't, there are going to be enough problems to wake everyone up and keep them up with cups of bullets-winging-by-their-heads with a couple packets of smallpox for sweetness. Do we try to avoid it by speaking up or do we try to do something about it?

I mean, fuck, how hard is voting?! Or - you write posts and emails all the time, write an email to your congressman and say, "What the fuck is going on with our government, our country, and the world that surrounds it all?!" Stop and think about how this all affects you, your family, your friends, your future wives or husbands, and your children.

Another note on the "this is pointless" idea:
Martin Luther King Jr., The Founding Fathers, Socrates, Voltaire, Marx, Darwin, Einstein, Tesla/Edison, Da Vinci, Picasso, Bach, Mozart, Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth I, etc. If these people kept their mouth shut and smiled politely, who knows...

frail_and_bedazzled
03-07-2002, 08:53 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Hence the idea of waking up, so we don't have to have another huge incident for things to change - we need to take the initiative and snap out of this La-La Land we've been living in. If we can't, there are going to be enough problems to wake everyone up and keep them up with cups of bullets-winging-by-their-heads with a couple packets of smallpox for sweetness. Do we try to avoid it by speaking up or do we try to do something about it?

I mean, fuck, how hard is voting?! Or - you write posts and emails all the time, write an email to your congressman and say, "What the fuck is going on with our government, our country, and the world that surrounds it all?!" Stop and think about how this all affects you, your family, your friends, your future wives or husbands, and your children.

Another note on the "this is pointless" idea:
Martin Luther King Jr., The Founding Fathers, Socrates, Voltaire, Marx, Darwin, Einstein, Tesla/Edison, Da Vinci, Picasso, Bach, Mozart, Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth I, etc. If these people kept their mouth shut and smiled politely, who knows...</font>
i totally agree. but not enough people are suffering to care. you need starving masses or a grossly misrepresented demographic to support anything. face it, most people in this country didn't really suffer jack shit. hell, i barely even did, although i at least lived there.

tweedyburd
03-07-2002, 10:05 PM
Chad, I totally agree that NY and the country should've been warned about the nuclear threat.

Oh, and of course we all knew/know there are threats to NY, but when they have actual leads and information on something specific, like the October incident, it goes without saying that it becomes a completely different urgency. And we knew squat.

There's no debating whether or not we should've known about that. The debate comes when we begin to look at or define as to what 'too much' is. We live in a completely different, desynthesized culture from the 50s and 60s, so perhaps it may not be fair to compare the people of today with those of the past when it comes to the alarm meter.

Elvis The Fat Years
03-07-2002, 10:07 PM
there are too many words in this thread.

if there is a llama
03-07-2002, 10:14 PM
What is this credible information about a specific nuclear threat that has been referenced in this thread?

Also, as far as a shadow government goes, from a strategic point of view, it makes sense. Spread out the potential targets, and make it more difficult to stop our government from functioning.

As far dirty bombs go, strategically they are very ineffective. Just another case of various media outlets crying wolf to get a good story.

David

pills
03-07-2002, 10:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
you're a fucking idiot. </font>

why's this? because it's true. look at the amount of aid the US just GIVES to israel, and dont deny how fucked up the media is.

YOU'RE the fucking idiot.

liarsclub
03-07-2002, 10:37 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by if there is a llama:
What is this credible information about a specific nuclear threat that has been referenced in this thread?

Also, as far as a shadow government goes, from a strategic point of view, it makes sense. Spread out the potential targets, and make it more difficult to stop our government from functioning.

As far dirty bombs go, strategically they are very ineffective. Just another case of various media outlets crying wolf to get a good story.

David</font>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020306/hl_nm/bomb_1

I don't think those experts work for the media. A shadow government is a decent idea, but, like I said, who's in it? And why weren't people like Daschele informed about it? My point was - if this is the first time we have put this shadow government in place, then the threats, one could easily conclude, were serious enough to warrant such action. If not, then what was the point and why wasn't anyone notified until they finally told the world just last week? It doesn't fit - at all.

John - about the tariffs - the irony is that Mr. Bush was all Mr. Free Trade during his campaign - now what's happening? Our economy is said to be on its way up, why then choose to go this route - a route that just pissed off the rest of the other countries who DON'T hate us?........yet.

if there is a llama
03-07-2002, 10:43 PM
I didn't see anything in regards to a specific nuclear threat in that article.

The closest thing I saw was "Since the September 11 attacks, fears have mounted over the use of radiological material by terrorists"

I'd hardly call that a specific threat.

David

tweedyburd
03-07-2002, 11:37 PM
llama - Just go pick up the new issue of Time. It's the cover story...

Chad - Surely you know that during a war time some rules automatically become relative when a decision effects the welfare of the country, so you can understand how, in all liklihood, many campaign issues will be approached differently as the industry/economy moves back and forth, and a wide variety of approaches--regardless of whether they adhere to 'campaign promises'--should be undertaken in a time of war.

I think the biggest irony is that Bush has made decisions that the Dems probably would have made themselves. For example, the Dems (Dashle in particular) are completely against drilling in the Alaska reserves. Fine. But what's their suggestion for an alternative? Why, raise the standard on MPG that cars get to 35, of course! This, ostensibly, will raise prices on vehicles as the technology and extra work will be put into making the vehicles more gas/cost effective. But the kicker comes when they make such an issue out of the tariff situation, claiming it will, among other things, unnecessarily raise the price of automobiles for consumers. You get my point.

As for the tariffs themselves, they're kind of a last ditch effort in trying to save a waning industry within the US. Not all countries apply, however, as I think Japan, Mexico, and Canada are exempt from the tarrifs. I would assume the reasoning, in regards to the economy, is that the tarrifs will save some steel industry veterans from going under, and thus saving many jobs. It really just seems like a subpar effort to make us more self sufficient.



[This message has been edited by tweedyburd (edited 03-07-2002).]

undivinemartyr
03-07-2002, 11:43 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Is it me or do we need to wake the fuck up?</font>
No, I love to sleep. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by The Patient:</font>
Hello? My name!!! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/redface.gif

liarsclub
03-08-2002, 04:08 AM
John - I agree with you - that Democratic alternative is a poor one and no better than the tariff - that's my point! I'm not siding - they're both wrong, in my mind.

I think Bush is really taking advantage of the situation - yeah, it's wartime, but hardly anything like WWII and here we are putting tariffs on steel and creating shadow governments. It's not right in my eyes.

Now - what do YOU disagree with? What pisses YOU off about our government/country/society/world? Do you think our government is being fair to us and/or other countries? Say what YOU think about it - not just in response to what I think about it... http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-08-2002, 04:52 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tweedyburd:
What's on ESPN?</font>

<font color=#007AAA>I've come to the conclusion that nothing will be done until many many more people die. We might be looking at the end of the world here. So in the meantime, I'm gonna watch SportsCenter and welcome nuclear holocaust with open arms.

AC_21
03-08-2002, 05:31 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
[B]*snip* all comments[B]</font>


If you ran for some gov't type office, I'd vote for you.....

Mr. Rhinoceros
03-08-2002, 05:34 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by AC_21:
If you ran for some gov't type office, I'd vote for you.....</font>

<font color=#007AAA>Granted, there's no way he could win.

------------------
We don't find truth, we create (http://www.livejournal.com/~mrrhinoceros) it.

Samsa
03-09-2002, 11:33 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by pills:
why's this? because it's true. look at the amount of aid the US just GIVES to israel, and dont deny how fucked up the media is.

YOU'RE the fucking idiot.</font>

hmm. did you ever consider that maybe the u.s. gives aid to israel because...they're a DEMOCRACY?

2) the media is becoming increasingly more and more anti-israel (media = liberals, liberals = anti-israel), and that is probably why YOU fucking idiots are becomingmore and more anti-israel. there are all these media people talking about how pro-israel the media is. that's where you're getting your stupid information from.

of course there are exceptions. the ny times is a jewish newspaper so it's not going to be anti-israel anytime soon. but anyways. yeah. you fucking idiot.

pills
03-09-2002, 02:13 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
hmm. did you ever consider that maybe the u.s. gives aid to israel because...they're a DEMOCRACY?

2) the media is becoming increasingly more and more anti-israel (media = liberals, liberals = anti-israel), and that is probably why YOU fucking idiots are becomingmore and more anti-israel. there are all these media people talking about how pro-israel the media is. that's where you're getting your stupid information from.

of course there are exceptions. the ny times is a jewish newspaper so it's not going to be anti-israel anytime soon. but anyways. yeah. you fucking idiot. </font>

Democracy eh? lol It's just great to know how democracy operates then. Have you ever even been to region?

And the media will NEVER change its views. And how do I know this? Because I used to watch the unfiltered versions every single day of my life. Plus I used to get your ever-so-impartial and honest CNN which would blow out of proportion stories of INJURED Israelis, but the death of 10-30 Palestinians a day never really occurred to them. It's nice and easy to pull things out of your ass when you're on the other side of the fucking world relaxing by your PC, observing the grave threat a Palestinian serves will he holds up his rock to a fully equipped and armoured to teeth Israeli soldier. But the fact of the matter is Israel is a twisted "state" and good ole US of A is always condusive to helping that poor country out. Why do supply them with aid? Hmmmm.. I do not know. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

scouse_dave
03-09-2002, 07:56 PM
IT'S THE JEWS

NegaBenji
03-09-2002, 11:32 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
hmm. did you ever consider that maybe the u.s. gives aid to israel because...they're a DEMOCRACY?

2) the media is becoming increasingly more and more anti-israel (media = liberals, liberals = anti-israel), and that is probably why YOU fucking idiots are becomingmore and more anti-israel. there are all these media people talking about how pro-israel the media is. that's where you're getting your stupid information from.

of course there are exceptions. the ny times is a jewish newspaper so it's not going to be anti-israel anytime soon. but anyways. yeah. you fucking idiot. </font>

Iran was a democracy before the US stepped in
And in case you hadn't noticed, Israel is one fucked up country. They're entirely expansionist (contravening UN directives that they had to agree to to be recognised as a legitimate country), they have policies of human rights abuse in the occupied territories, and when Palestinian terrorists attack they respond with official military strikes against civilian areas and Palestinian security buildings (ie police stations). What a great democaracy to support!

liarsclub
03-09-2002, 11:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by AC_21:

If you ran for some gov't type office, I'd vote for you.....</font>

But you're in Canada! (aren't you?) http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

Samsa
03-10-2002, 03:52 AM
hmm, so you expect israel to sit by when the palestinian authority, and almost every other arab country for that matter, preaches that everyone should murder all the jews and take back israel?

you know, maybe israel IS occupying way too much territory, but the fact still stands that israel has made numerous efforts to make peace, and every fucking time the palestinians have basically stepped over. i'm really sorry that their lives are miserable, but this is only partly to do with israeli occupation. maybe if they set up a legitimate government and got a legitimate leader, who actually CARED about making peace, instead of just caring about keeping a scapegoat around to blame all their troubles on, then things would be better.

pills
03-10-2002, 03:56 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
hmm, so you expect israel to sit by when the palestinian authority, and almost every other arab country for that matter, preaches that everyone should murder all the jews and take back israel?

you know, maybe israel IS occupying way too much territory, but the fact still stands that israel has made numerous efforts to make peace, and every fucking time the palestinians have basically stepped over. i'm really sorry that their lives are miserable, but this is only partly to do with israeli occupation. maybe if they set up a legitimate government and got a legitimate leader, who actually CARED about making peace, instead of just caring about keeping a scapegoat around to blame all their troubles on, then things would be better.

</font>

so what does Israel do? bomb Arafat's camp.

you are a perfect example of what the media has to offer nowadays.

Samsa
03-10-2002, 04:00 AM
i'm not saying israel is perfect. i fucking hate ariel sharon and i'm just waiting for his party to fall, or something.

all i'm saying is you can't make peace with a people that don't want peace. or that don't know what's good for them. you can't expect israel to simply pull out of all occupied territories and halt all..actions with the way things are going. the palestinian people are misled into thinking that the best thing that can happen is the utter destruction of israel. and as long as this continues to be their objective, no israel is not going to treat them well.

Samsa
03-10-2002, 04:55 AM
oh and james i'm very disappointed in you for having such a repulsive view on the issue. really. well not disappointed. more like disgusted.

The Sacred and Profane
03-10-2002, 06:39 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by scouse_dave:
IT'S THE JEWS</font>

NegaBenji
03-10-2002, 11:31 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
oh and james i'm very disappointed in you for having such a repulsive view on the issue. really. well not disappointed. more like disgusted.</font>

Repulsive? It's repulsive to believe that the US shouldn't be backing Israel in what they're doing? And to believe they need to let international mediators in to work towards a solution? Don't get me wrong, Palestine needs to seriously rethink their attitude towards Israel too, but Israel are far from the innocent wronged party here

Samsa
03-10-2002, 01:34 PM
oh well i agree with you on that. but what you just said sure as hell doesn't coincide with what you said before. jesus christ almighty.

pills
03-10-2002, 01:40 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
i fucking hate ariel sharon

no israel is not going to treat them well.</font>

heh.

look. there's a start to everything, and the people of Palestine aren't going to give up on what their parents and their grandparents fought for, their liberty and human rights. they know how the Israelis treated them, raped them, beat them, killed them and showed NO sign of wanting to negotiate for peace. everytime a summit comes up, Israel fails to comply to the structure of the deal. And they can do this because they can do whatever they want to when they have the world's power backing them up.

Remember about 2 years ago when the tension rose to horrific levels, an international committee got together, made up of convoys from USA, France, England, China.... I think they were 15 country representatives. They decided to take a vote on who was to blame for the recent violence, which was nonstop. 14 countries voted against Israel. 1 country (surprize surprize) voted for Israel and being the world power, it vetoed the decissions.

It's no doubt that eventually the world will come to see the truth, but unfortunately it will take time, and time will take lives.

Samsa
03-10-2002, 01:46 PM
jesus christ on a stick who ARE you?? who the fuck put these kinds of ideas in your head??

you say I have a skewed view of the situation? good god. why don't you straighten up your head. that's all i have to say. just go straighten up your head.

raindrops + sunshowers
03-10-2002, 01:48 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
jesus christ on a stick who ARE you?? who the fuck put these kinds of ideas in your head??

you say I have a skewed view of the situation? good god. why don't you straighten up your head. that's all i have to say. just go straighten up your head. </font>

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=irony

pills
03-10-2002, 01:48 PM
^

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 01:56 PM
blah blah blah... if you feel so against or for something go out and demonstrate or go do something about it.

I can assure you all, posting on netphoria will not solve the worlds problems.

------------------
Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

Samsa
03-10-2002, 01:59 PM
listen, unless pills is being sarcastic i fail to see the irony in the situation. and chris, if you, or if anyone can't see what a sack of shit that last statement was, then i seriously feel sorry for you.


so if someone blows a building up in america, he's a terrorist, but he does it in israel, he's a freedom fighter? whatever. what fucking ever.

pills
03-10-2002, 02:03 PM
No sarcasm you moron. If you follow up on these things you would know what i'm talking about. But then again, like what was said, arguing on netphoria with uninformed people won't solve the problems of today.

Samsa
03-10-2002, 02:06 PM
and i'll remind YOU that last year, before this recent intifada started, ehud barak offered to pull out of 95% of all occupied terrotories, and arafat said no.

FUCK!!!!!!!!!
03-10-2002, 02:07 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros:
I've come to the conclusion that nothing will be done until many many more people die. We might be looking at the end of the world here. So in the meantime, I'm gonna watch SportsCenter and welcome nuclear holocaust with open arms.</font>

jesus, you do realize that the ONLY reason 'nothing will be done' is because everyone else has this attitude too!! americans have themselves to blame, i suppose. it really helps that everyone's told to 'carpe diem' and not care about anything besides themselves (i.e. anything important). there is a portion of the population trying to prevent these incidents from happening, and they could use the help and attention and support of the vast majority of everyone else that thinks it's futile!

it's like not voting for someone because you think they'll lose.

Samsa
03-10-2002, 02:11 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by pills:
No sarcasm you moron. If you follow up on these things you would know what i'm talking about. But then again, like what was said, arguing on netphoria with uninformed people won't solve the problems of today.</font>

don't you DARE spit one-sided propoganda like that and then call ME a moron. like i said, i have no idea who put this shit in your head but it really makes me sad that you'd believe that israel, and only israel is to blame for this problem.

NegaBenji
03-10-2002, 02:17 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
oh well i agree with you on that. but what you just said sure as hell doesn't coincide with what you said before. jesus christ almighty.</font>

Coincide with what? When I said they have a recognised history of human rights abuse against Palestines, or that they went against the UN twice to occupy more and more Palestinian territory? Sure it does, that's why I don't believe anyone should be backing Israel in what it's doing.

pills
03-10-2002, 03:05 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Samsa:
don't you DARE spit one-sided propoganda like that and then call ME a moron. like i said, i have no idea who put this shit in your head but it really makes me sad that you'd believe that israel, and only israel is to blame for this problem. </font>

you statements are really lacking meaning. you can play around with words but it really won't affect my viewpoint. i suggest you read more about the history of the region, and/or put yourself in the shoes of people who have actually lived it. propoganda? dude that's all what you're about. every fucking word that comes out of your mouth is propoganda. you're so fucking double-standard it's scary.

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 03:22 PM
http://www.boodang.com/main/narnia/images/MVC-015F_JPG.jpg

Undone
03-10-2002, 04:06 PM
<font color="CC33CC">To everyone that claims that posting on a stupid SP-related messageboard has no effect when compared to demonstrating etc., I'd have to disagree. Believe it or not, these are the ways that information is most easily distributed. Hasn't everyone else realized how fucking HARD it is to get valid information and actually learn about what the hell is going on around the world? I actually look through articles, and by the time I get through the bullshit, I'm so confused that I don't know where to look next.

What scares me is that confusion. I don't know what exactly to be rallying against, but I DO know that something is wrong and that the manner in which we are handling nuclear weapons is terrifying. And that the US most likely was always like this, but to have it come public has to have some meaning to it.

Another thing that scares me is the corporate influence over the media, and even political actions. Using oil as an excuse to kill other people etc.

So now we have to ask, what do we do? Just keep reading, and getting more pissed off? See that works for a while, but we need action. Peaceful action...see talking does help because that's what the greater leaders used to get change to come. Martin Luther King didn't use suicide bombers obviously.

It all feels very hopeless at times, but I guess we have to try anyway.

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 05:30 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
blah blah blah... if you feel so against or for something go out and demonstrate or go do something about it.

I can assure you all, posting on netphoria will not solve the worlds problems.

</font>

Clint, you missed the point - check my related topics and you will see, in depth, how. Nobody is claiming to change anything by posting - it's just talking - it's just, maybe, opening other people's eyes to something they didn't realize - MAYBE sparking someone TO do something. The process: think, speak, do.

And, how funny is that - you telling people to go do something about it, while people who go "do" something about it are considered terrorists now. You are in the military - you know what the problems are and you dedicate your life to supporting our own atrocities just the same - without blinking, as you're ordered by the chain of command - do your duty - don't question authority - risk your life without asking why - keep your mouth shut about the shit our military does - here, here's some propaganda for you to get excited about, to spark some ignorant malice. But hey, some of it does good, right?!

Interesting - that's exactly what I have been talking about in these posts and there is the military, a prime example of it...

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 05:45 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Undone:
<font color="CC33CC">To everyone that claims that posting on a stupid SP-related messageboard has no effect when compared to demonstrating etc., I'd have to disagree. Believe it or not, these are the ways that information is most easily distributed. Hasn't everyone else realized how fucking HARD it is to get valid information and actually learn about what the hell is going on around the world? I actually look through articles, and by the time I get through the bullshit, I'm so confused that I don't know where to look next.

What scares me is that confusion. I don't know what exactly to be rallying against, but I DO know that something is wrong and that the manner in which we are handling nuclear weapons is terrifying. And that the US most likely was always like this, but to have it come public has to have some meaning to it.

Another thing that scares me is the corporate influence over the media, and even political actions. Using oil as an excuse to kill other people etc.

So now we have to ask, what do we do? Just keep reading, and getting more pissed off? See that works for a while, but we need action. Peaceful action...see talking does help because that's what the greater leaders used to get change to come. Martin Luther King didn't use suicide bombers obviously.

It all feels very hopeless at times, but I guess we have to try anyway.</font></font>

Great post. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question as to what we should do. I've been wrestling with that for the past few weeks and I haven't been able to get a good step in any direction yet. If anyone has any ideas, post'em... http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 05:52 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Clint, you missed the point - check my related topics and you will see, in depth, how. Nobody is claiming to change anything by posting - it's just talking - it's just, maybe, opening other people's eyes to something they didn't realize - MAYBE sparking someone TO do something. The process: think, speak, do.

And, how funny is that - you telling people to go do something about it, while people who go "do" something about it are considered terrorists now. You are in the military - you know what the problems are and you dedicate your life to supporting our own atrocities just the same - without blinking, as you're ordered by the chain of command - do your duty - don't question authority - risk your life without asking why - keep your mouth shut about the shit our military does - here, here's some propaganda for you to get excited about, to spark some ignorant malice. But hey, some of it does good, right?!

Interesting - that's exactly what I have been talking about in these posts and there is the military, a prime example of it...</font>

i think you misunderstand why the US military is so successfull chad.... i treat this as a 9-5 job as do most of us in the military... the fact that we really dont care about much of what goes on is what helps us operate so well. I'll be god damned if im gonna die for this country thus the reason it makes me so willing to help kill those trying to make me die for it. See? I dont dedicate my waking moments to the US i work 9 hours a day, come home, drink a beer, mix a bit, fuck my girlfriend and move on.

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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 06:59 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
i think you misunderstand why the US military is so successfull chad.... i treat this as a 9-5 job as do most of us in the military... the fact that we really dont care about much of what goes on is what helps us operate so well. I'll be god damned if im gonna die for this country thus the reason it makes me so willing to help kill those trying to make me die for it. See? I dont dedicate my waking moments to the US i work 9 hours a day, come home, drink a beer, mix a bit, fuck my girlfriend and move on.

</font>

You must not see the enemy or be in any position where you'd be asked to go fight. I've known and still know people in the military and not one of them EVER described what you just did - it was actually the complete opposite - basically, how I described it in my post. Maybe it's just what you see or don't see or what you're exposed to in whatever part of the military. I'm sure you're right in accordance to your personal case and I'm sure my friends aren't lying at the same time. I'm sorry for blindly assuming your situation was the same.

On a side note - when you said 9 to 5, I couldn't help but to think about Dolly Parton's tits, circa 1980. Thanks, Clint... http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 07:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
You must not see the enemy or be in any position where you'd be asked to go fight. I've known and still know people in the military and not one of them EVER described what you just did - it was actually the complete opposite - basically, how I described it in my post. Maybe it's just what you see or don't see or what you're exposed to in whatever part of the military. I'm sure you're right in accordance to your personal case and I'm sure my friends aren't lying at the same time. I'm sorry for blindly assuming your situation was the same.

On a side note - when you said 9 to 5, I couldn't help but to think about Dolly Parton's tits, circa 1980. Thanks, Clint... http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif</font>

I don't think you quite understand.... military members dont think to themselves "I'll do whatever my commander says and die for old glory!" we just all share the common mindset that blowing up the mountains of afghanistan sure beats getting killed ourselves.

and just fyi I'm in the position to be deployed worldwide at any moment... do i care? not really... when it comes down to it if im over there i'll have an m-203 and be in control of my own fate.

the public has the idea that the military goes to sleep with an american flag in their arms which is a crock of shit... maybe ate up older military members but us young bucks (the one doing most of the work/fighting) just have the common mindset that dying=not fun

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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 08:25 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
I don't think you quite understand.... military members dont think to themselves "I'll do whatever my commander says and die for old glory!" we just all share the common mindset that blowing up the mountains of afghanistan sure beats getting killed ourselves.

and just fyi I'm in the position to be deployed worldwide at any moment... do i care? not really... when it comes down to it if im over there i'll have an m-203 and be in control of my own fate.

the public has the idea that the military goes to sleep with an american flag in their arms which is a crock of shit... maybe ate up older military members but us young bucks (the one doing most of the work/fighting) just have the common mindset that dying=not fun

</font>

Um, I have understood just fine - like I said - you must not have been in Bosnia with my friend or have been a flight instructor or have been through and been exposed to the things my friends have - so, your perception might not be like my friends' perceptions - hence the apology for assuming that yours would be the same.

And, ANYONE can go at a moment's notice, but it's not like you're doing anything RIGHT NOW - it's not as if you're on a foreign base, doing peace keeping, or fighting. You're just helping out - here. So, don't assume that your situation is representative of every other person in the military - you're doing a reverse of what I apologized for...

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 08:33 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Um, I have understood just fine - like I said - you must not have been in Bosnia with my friend or have been a flight instructor or have been through and been exposed to the things my friends have - so, your perception might not be like my friends' perceptions - hence the apology for assuming that yours would be the same.

And, ANYONE can go at a moment's notice, but it's not like you're doing anything RIGHT NOW - it's not as if you're on a foreign base, doing peace keeping, or fighting. You're just helping out - here. So, don't assume that your situation is representative of every other person in the military - you're doing a reverse of what I apologized for...</font>

well considering I've been overseas and done my TDY's I can relate.

You're forgetting 40% of our military is overseas yet less than 1% is in harms way. I've been to PSAB in Saudia Arabia OHHHHHH scary right? Wrong its a lush base where you stay in the equivelant of a 4 star hotel and work a 9-5 job. Like i said less than 1% of people "over there" are actually in harms way. Don't let your friends candy coat shit for you chad. Unless they're a marine in one of the active squadrons or an army ranger they are "just helping out"



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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

meow
03-10-2002, 08:37 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by The Patient:
CLOWNS!

http://www.redhat.com/img/clowns.jpg

what were you saying again? i wasn't listening. cuz i don't care.

</font>

*applause*

FUCK!!!!!!!!!
03-10-2002, 08:43 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Great post. Unfortunately, I can't answer your question as to what we should do. I've been wrestling with that for the past few weeks and I haven't been able to get a good step in any direction yet. If anyone has any ideas, post'em... http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif</font>

i think about this a lot too.
what can really be done? it seems like the minute anyone organizes some kind of counter-culture movement, it's labeled, backlashed and carries the "special interest" stigma.

what about enlightenment through education? stay educated, keep informed. consciously think about everything you do in your life - "why am i voting?" "why am i giving money to mcdonalds?" "why did i just throw that paper in the trash?" "why am i watching tv?" - just apply basic logic. influence your friends and your children, or expand your influence through your job (if you're a writer or teacher, for example) and in theory the world could be a better place. not in our generation, but eventually.

but i guess that really wouldn't work, because uneducated people have more children.

so keep thinking...

AC_21
03-10-2002, 08:47 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
But you're in Canada! (aren't you?) http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif</font>

Yeah, but I'm going to move to america to take advantage of our captalist society. So if you want to run for office, you know who'll be your supporter. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 09:12 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PkPhuoko:
well considering I've been overseas and done my TDY's I can relate.

You're forgetting 40% of our military is overseas yet less than 1% is in harms way. I've been to PSAB in Saudia Arabia OHHHHHH scary right? Wrong its a lush base where you stay in the equivelant of a 4 star hotel and work a 9-5 job. Like i said less than 1% of people "over there" are actually in harms way. Don't let your friends candy coat shit for you chad. Unless they're a marine in one of the active squadrons or an army ranger they are "just helping out"

</font>

Nevermind - I'm not going to repeat something three times...

PkPhuoko
03-10-2002, 09:17 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by liarsclub:
Nevermind - I'm not going to repeat something three times...</font>

now you know how i feel

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Warpspeed- Bass-x, Dallas, TX March 22nd
Weekly Submissions- Ft Worth, TX March 23rd
Designer History 2 @ the El Torreon Ballroom Kansas City, MO April 6th
Afterhours- Warrensburg, MO 12 April

ooom papa (http://www.nsmm.net/kaoss/empathy.mp3)

liarsclub
03-10-2002, 09:44 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by FUCK!!!!!!!!!:

what about enlightenment through education? stay educated, keep informed. consciously think about everything you do in your life - "why am i voting?" "why am i giving money to mcdonalds?" "why did i just throw that paper in the trash?" "why am i watching tv?" - just apply basic logic. influence your friends and your children, or expand your influence through your job (if you're a writer or teacher, for example) and in theory the world could be a better place. not in our generation, but eventually.

</font>

I think education is the key - we need to step it up a bit in the curriculum. If people want religion taught in school - teach ALL religions - give everyone a chance to see almost every aspect of everything. Pay teachers more money and close the gaps between the suburban schools and the inner-city schools. Do what some cities already have been doing - promoting books for a city-wide read thingamajob - i.e. Chicago encouraged its citizens to read "To Kill a Mockingbird". Apparently, from what I've heard, there was a huge response - plays, book discussions, readings, lectures - everywhere! That's the kind of thing we need to do. Encourage people to think - it doesn't have to be Mockingbird - just anything.

People love to be inspired - information will do that - there just needs to be enough contributions to pass along that information...

Undone
03-11-2002, 01:57 AM
<font color="CC33CC">In addition to the purely educational endeavors that FUCK!!!!!!!! (haha) was mentioning, one could always question the western capitalistic goals and spend a few months or years in volunteer organizations such as Habitat for Humanity and Peace Corps etc. Which may or may not have any direct correlation with some of the war events, but it is helping other people have better lives.

Undone
03-11-2002, 02:03 AM
<font color="CC33CC">Another way to have a surprising amount of influence is to look into certain corporations that you have a tendency to support, and see what their humans rights and resource violations are. If you like Taco Bell burritos, perhaps you should know that there are HUGE disputes now over the amount that the migrant workers are paid for picking the restaurant's tomatoes. Taco Bell refuses to give them 1 more cent per bushel. As far as Nike and many other athletic companies go, they employ the use of overseas American-owned (therefore they are still legally allowed to say "Made in America") sweat shops, or they buy directly from third-world owned sweat shops. If you spread the word about this, demonstrate, write letters, etc. to the point of dropping the companies' millions of dollars of profit, or even to somehow getting some negative media attention directed their way, then there may be some differences made in policy.