View Full Version : Racism, Probably a repeat


Black jellie bean
02-03-2002, 06:03 PM
I hate when people play it like a trump card,
while in tight jams,
also I hate how because they're the minority, they get to be racist, giving them more initial rights than everyone else
example?
puff daddy or p diddy (or what ever the fuck he is) does a concert to support the african americans who died on 9-11,
If someone tried to pull a concert for the white people who died the fucking race flag would be up and that would be the end of it.
we're all fucking human
I don't see the point of this shit
*I know that I'm half being hipicritical

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nevermind
02-03-2002, 06:07 PM
http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

yea blacks are idiots i know. shut up already. christ.

theonemofo
02-03-2002, 07:44 PM
if you take the definition of racism to be the practice of systematically disadvantaging people based on their race, then a minority cannot be racist. or conversely, you could state it as a practice that systematically benefits people of the majority. whether you know it or not, white people are privy to benefits that they don't even perceive as benefits.

when you say the word "person" to an american, the standard is that that person is a white, anglo-saxon protestant.

in a study, white and black people were evaluated (by whites) for working potential based on appearance alone. when given the option of bad or good, the two races were evaluated roughly the same.

then, the evaluation was repeated with the inclusion of the choice of "okay". black people were systematically ranked lower than whites.

this kind of stuff is ingrained in us. it's not something we do out of malice. it's just what we've been taught.

and as white people, we might take offense to the fact that p diddy did a concert in tribute to the blacks who died on september eleventh. it seems as if they're disenfranchising us, lessening our importance.

but take a look at our television shows, our colleges, our suburbias. now who's doing the disenfranchising?

carter
02-03-2002, 08:12 PM
Why have a problem with Puffy donating money to the blacks that died in September? It is his money. I'm sure everyone at the concert knew who the money was going to and supported the cause.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by theonemofo:
this kind of stuff is ingrained in us. it's not something we do out of malice. it's just what we've been taught.?</font>
I disagree. While stereotypes and prejudices are behaviors learned to lower transaction cost, racism, as you defined, is attributable to inherent human nature.
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">but take a look at our television shows, our colleges, our suburbias. now who's doing the disenfranchising?</font>

I do not understand this quote. Do you mean television, colleges, and suburbia are not representing ethnic culture? Non-whites are grossly over-represented in entertainment and when all other variables are held constant, they are over-represented in American colleges. Now if you mean that ethnic groups are being "disenfranchised" by majority groups borrowing aspects of their culture for entertainment purposes, then I fully agree.

Chris Carter

shutterbugg
02-03-2002, 08:26 PM
ethnocentrism?

Mayfuck
02-03-2002, 10:34 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
I don't see the point of this shit

</font>

Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.<font color=black size=1>

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 02-03-2002).]

bonsor
02-03-2002, 10:35 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.</font>Elaborate, please.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 10:43 PM
for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.

nevermind
02-03-2002, 10:47 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.</font>


and you asked ME when i would shut up. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif lmfao.
what an idiot, wow.

Mayfuck
02-03-2002, 10:47 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...
</font>

It's called cultural identity, nitwit. And it should be embraced.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ******:
Elaborate, please.

</font>

To you of all people? Maybe another time, David Duke.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 10:58 PM
cultural identity is fine... removing yourself from the rest of society...isn't.

bonsor
02-03-2002, 11:00 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.</font>I disagree with everything but this. Opression does exist in America. How much actually exists cannot be accurately determined due to the number of people who milk the fact that they're a minority for all it's worth, but I'm a firm believer that it still exists.

I live in a part of the nation where I come across hardcore racists on a weekly basis. And I don't think it's any coincidence that a lot of people in higher power are white males. Theoretically, if all races were equal and treated equally, the percentage of minorities in each social class should be perfectly proportional the total population. Is that so? Hardly. Racial oppression is a reality, and everything you said (except the paragraph I quoted, which I'll get to in a second) reeks of complete ignorance. A true liberal would at least recognize the fact that people are being oppressed.

Being an American isn't necessarily about being colorblind. That would be boring. If everyone made our racial differences taboo, we would grow farther apart. People need to learn to embrace the differences between our races. Embrace is too strong. Recognize and respect. Recognition and respect of other people's cultures.

Although, that could very quickly turn into intolerance, because once you make the differences more apparent, people shy away from them, because people are afraid of what is different.

I suggest you all read Native Son by Richard Wright. It tackles the situation perfectly. It's a nice read, too.

Mayfuck
02-03-2002, 11:00 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
cultural identity is fine... removing yourself from the rest of society...isn't.</font>

In other words, 'cultural identiy is fine, not allowing yourself to be assimilated into white institutions isn't.'

melancholia
02-03-2002, 11:02 PM
I will read that book as soon as I get around to it.

I'm sure there is racism in this country, but I also think that very few people (minorites included) are doing much to stop it.

I really am colorblind...I don't *have* a people, other than other Americans... which is why all of the division pisses me off.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 11:03 PM
what is a "white institution"?

Mayfuck
02-03-2002, 11:10 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
what is a "white institution"?

</font>

Read onemofos post.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 11:16 PM
i still don't get it...there is nothing in there about being white
his point is that we're all human, and nothing is ever going to be accomplished in terms of equality unless we begin to see it that way...in ALL aspects.

and I agree.

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-03-2002, 11:33 PM
I get tired of arguing the same points to people again and again, but it would be a disservice to stop.

I live in New Hampshire. My hometown, Laconia, is like the set of a sitcom: middle-class white guys, with the occasional token "ethnic" now and then. The rhetoric of people like Black Jellie Bean and Melancholia sounds eerily like the bullshit the locals spout when confronted with the same sort of situation--"Who cares? We're all Americans."

The problem is, when someone says "American" they think of a white person wearing a tie and carrying a breifcase to his corporate job. If you try to substitute a black person, or an Asian person, or a hispanic person into the vision, they're invariable just a white guy with different-colored skin. The only reason a lot of Americans know anything about other cultures is because our own pop-culture has assimilated it, making it briefly fashionable for suburban adolescents to consume until their appetite for the product has been sated.

I don't know nearly as much about the world as I'd like to, and if someone wants me to learn about it I'm not going to stop them. Whether this means having a month devoted to black history, or the guy who runs the local Thai market (if there was one around here--there's not) wearing his culutral garb, or whatever, I think that's fine. No one's making you learn anything. You can ignore minorities if you want; your established social order would probably work better without them anyway.

I can see I'm losing focus here, so I'll try to draw out my main point: I don't think there should be one American people. America is the melting pot because there are people here from all walks of life and parts of the world, and it would be a shame and a mistake if we forgot and cast off our origins.

White people already control our society; we're bombarded by "white propoganda" every day, as Theonemofo and Mayfuck pointed out, but white people still get uncomfortable when minorities exert and support their cultures. To me, that's still racism--you might not be lynching or persecuting anyone, but just because the symptoms are more subtle doesn't mean the disease has vanished.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 11:38 PM
when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.

and you're reading into what i said, i have no problem with culture, i have no problem with people supporting their culture... i play harp and have red hair... i am showing my culture right there...

but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.

nevermind
02-03-2002, 11:40 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.

and you're reading into what i said, i have no problem with culture, i have no problem with people supporting their culture... i play harp and have red hair... i am showing my culture right there...

but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.

</font>
bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.

stupid whore, geeze.

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-03-2002, 11:46 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.</font>

Well, that's a good first step, I suppose.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.</font>

No, you're still wrong. Have you been out lately? All those people wearing Gap pants and Abercrombie shirts are displaying white culture. People who listen to any number of pop musicians are displaying their culture. Corporate America never stops shoving white culture up our asses.

Don't try to tell me you can't display white culture--it's almost impossible to avoid.

melancholia
02-03-2002, 11:50 PM
Um... so...now stores are segregated?

So...when I feel like acting "white" I have to go to the gap...right? and listen to some pop music...

fuck the fact that my paternal grandfathers line is Spanish... I guess I'm too white for that.

I guess I can't listen to bob marley anymore...he's too "black culture" for me...

jesus...

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-04-2002, 12:01 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
Um... so...now stores are segregated?

So...when I feel like acting "white" I have to go to the gap...right? and listen to some pop music...

fuck the fact that my paternal grandfathers line is Spanish... I guess I'm too white for that.

I guess I can't listen to bob marley anymore...he's too "black culture" for me...

jesus...</font>

Jesus is right--you seem pretty fucking dense.

Yes, I obviously mean that everyone should give up what they like and focus on things that they're supposed to like, based on their ethnic origin. That's exactly what I'm trying to say! I'm glad my message wasn't too clouded for you to pick up, you arrogant fuck.

No, stores aren't segregated. In fact, minorities are encouraged to shop there--that way, they'll appear more white. If a black man goes into a job interview dressed as some crazy-ass tribal African, even if his dress is culturally appropriate and of very high quality, no one's going to take him seriously. But if he's dressed "correctly", in a nice Gucci suit perhaps, his chances are significantly higher for him to get the job.

I can see I'm not going to win any sort of arguement with you, or even make a dent, so I'll conclude now:

There is no racism in the United States of America. Minorities should learn their place and accept that fact.

Mayfuck
02-04-2002, 12:03 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.

</font>

And this is where you stumble. First off, why did you put culture in quotation marks? Are you somehow trying to invalidate it? And second...if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK Here is my problem with this thread. You're being too technical about this racial issue. This country has had too far a complex history regarding racial matters to simply see things in black and white (no pun intended!!1) which is what you're doing with your we're-all-Americans rhetoric. You complained that it's not okay for white people to display their culture, when actually it is okay as long as it's done under an ethnic guise i.e. Russian pride, Scottish pride. Go wear a kilt to school. Or whatever it is that your ethnic predecessors do.

Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.

Etienne
02-04-2002, 12:07 AM
ome <font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
I hate when people play it like a trump card,
while in tight jams,
also I hate how because they're the minority, they get to be racist, giving them more initial rights than everyone else
example?
puff daddy or p diddy (or what ever the fuck he is) does a concert to support the african americans who died on 9-11,
If someone tried to pull a concert for the white people who died the fucking race flag would be up and that would be the end of it.
we're all fucking human
I don't see the point of this shit
*I know that I'm half being hipicritical

</font>


by saying this your just propagating racism evn more, just by saying that thing about having a concert for the whites who died in 911 is stupid, for on whites arent a minority, for another thing, rasicm is like a bad haircut, if you ignore it it will go away.


------------------
i'm trying not to move
it's just your ghost passing through

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-04-2002, 12:08 AM
Thank you, Mayfuck--he touched on the subjects that I didn't make clear in my own responses.

It's too bad we don't really like each other. We'd probably get along pretty well.

Mayfuck
02-04-2002, 12:10 AM
I like you, silly :)

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-04-2002, 12:12 AM
I don't dislike you.

How touching. This whole thread is like an episode of Family Matters.

Black jellie bean
02-04-2002, 12:12 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.
</font>
I think this is one of the things we don't agree on,
A: People of a different Race or religion are not better than any other, therefore why segregate yourself?Black, mexican, german whatever, being proud to be different is one thing, rasing money for Black people is another.*specifically in this example* when People from EVERY race Die pretty much equally or whatever, it is the Hight of bigotry
B:I'm not racist or a bigot
I hate everyone equally
C:What I mean is by "I don't understand this shit" is that well all have different roots, different lives, different problems, different skin colors, different taste,ect. I'm just wondering when people are going to understand the ways we're the same instead of the difference, it would make things alot easier.


regarding that fucking concert,
I still think it is bullshit,
the point is that PEOPLE died
not only Black people



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http://205.251.253.175:666/GuitarAge/images/dop.jpg </A>

Black jellie bean
02-04-2002, 12:16 AM
in regards to me waving my culture/displying it
thats fine?
i don't go around saying i'm fucking white and proud
I could care less if I were African or somthingstill doesn't give me the right to segregate myself from the rest of humanity

does anyone understand/agree with what i'm trying to say here
god i wish i were a better writer

Black jellie bean
02-04-2002, 12:18 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
And this is where you stumble. First off, why did you put culture in quotation marks? Are you somehow trying to invalidate it? And second...if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK Here is my problem with this thread. You're being too technical about this racial issue. This country has had too far a complex history regarding racial matters to simply see things in black and white (no pun intended!!1) which is what you're doing with your we're-all-Americans rhetoric. You complained that it's not okay for white people to display their culture, when actually it is okay as long as it's done under an ethnic guise i.e. Russian pride, Scottish pride. Go wear a kilt to school. Or whatever it is that your ethnic predecessors do.

Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.</font>
I understand what your saying
and I partially agree with it,
good stuff,

theonemofo
02-04-2002, 12:25 AM
mayfuck and smack me in the mouth: you hit on all the points. my post was kinda hasty, and pretty unclear.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality</font>

no, we do need affirmative action. the little study i pointed to shows that minorities (asians being an exception) have negative associations tacked onto them. affirmative actions serves as a way to counterbalance this systematic error.

we certainly haven't achieved pure equality either. living in a suburban middle to upper-class town tells me otherwise. if your typical citizen of brecksville sees a black person walking around, they'll lock their car doors. furthermore, the cops are bound to harass the black guy. i mean, he's obviously up to no good.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.</font>

ok, i'm going to try to explain this, but i don't think i'm going to be able to.

racial catagories are not important to white people because they represent the standard. the assumed standard. if you ask a group of people, mostly white, some minority, to tell you who they are (i.e. what makes them themselves), practically no white person will point out the fact that they're white. peculiar, isn't it? especially since minorities will make a point that they're of a different race.

white pride is an unsaid thing. why? because they're a majority. a cultural standard. all of us who are white (myself included - i'm half white, half asian) silently speak this.

taken in such a context, minorities who speak out and display their pride aren't being loud or drawing unnecessary attention to themselves, they're people who are showing the same level of confidence and assuredness with their race that white people are. it's just that minorities have to say it.

[This message has been edited by theonemofo (edited 02-03-2002).]

Comedy Doesn't Pay
02-04-2002, 12:27 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.</font>

As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.

Mayfuck
02-04-2002, 12:28 AM
Mhm.

Garrett, (Or am I talking to Bill? Who knows.) I see the point you are trying to make. Regarding the WTC fund raising for minorities, it goes back to the cultural isolation thing I was talking about in my other post. If you go back several decades when racism was more blatant, sometimes the only friends victims of oppression had were members of their own race. This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations, so when you see black people raising funds for other black people, it's done for symbolic purposes out of cultural unity, and not to smite white people or 'segregate' themselves from humanity.

(Aren't all WTC victims' families getting at least like 1.6 million dollars a pop anyway?)

THE MACHINA666
02-04-2002, 12:28 AM
http://www.ananova.com/images/news/monkey_breastfeedingAP372x500.jpg

Etienne
02-04-2002, 12:35 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.</font>

alow me to add some further disscusion.

i was raised in charleston sc
down here whites for the most part hate and fear blacks, problem with cable, blame the blacks, problems with traffic blame the blacks, stubed your toe going to the bathroom at 4 am blame the blacks.

i moved to west virgina, cause im a moron, but one thing i realized, is that there is no racicm in west virgina, the first day i waas there my black neighbor came out talked to me we became friends, he was married to a white girl they had a kid, and even though i had to kick his ass a few times cause he had a penchant fro getting drunk and smacking his wife, he was good people. my boss a black guy 2nd day on the job i was wearing my helmet t shirt he was like dude helmet rules we became great friends.

the point is as i see it vest virgina, poor coal mining town, everyone has been a miner, or has a miner in there family and it really shows in how people dont see colors, they see people, in SC there are 2 kinds of people rich white people (ie slave owners) and poor people (ie slaves) the poor white people hate the blacks for keeping them poor, the blacks blame the whites for keeping them poor, and the rich blame the blacks for crime, so it seems to me that a lot of it comes from money.
of course i could be wrong.

jsut my 10 cents

Comedy Doesn't Pay
02-04-2002, 12:38 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by theonemofo:
no, we do need affirmative action. the little study i pointed to shows that minorities (asians being an exception) have negative associations tacked onto them. affirmative actions serves as a way to counterbalance this systematic error.</font>

No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

Black jellie bean
02-04-2002, 12:40 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Mhm.

Garrett, (Or am I talking to Bill? Who knows.) I see the point you are trying to make. Regarding the WTC fund raising for minorities, it goes back to the cultural isolation thing I was talking about in my other post. If you go back several decades when racism was more blatant, sometimes the only friends victims of oppression had were members of their own race. This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations, so when you see black people raising funds for other black people, it's done for symbolic purposes out of cultural unity, and not to smite white people or 'segregate' themselves from humanity.

(Aren't all WTC victims' families getting at least like 1.6 million dollars a pop anyway?) </font>

its Garrett(thx for remembering)
but i think this crosses the cultural unity line so to speak.

and you are right about the "This cultural unity, I think, carries over generations"
but the only way we as humans/people/North americans or any other label, are going to smite racial hate is to let go of the past a little and embrace unity in general, therefore letting go of the sterotypes, and the different styles of kkk clubs ect,
I'm not saying get rid of our cultures or our diversity, there would be no point in that. That in itself would destroy anything interesting on this planet.

(Probably, but if you think about it racial and religious problems caused this anyway)

I'm off to bed
Best thread responces I think I could have gotten,(except for that bigot thing)

carter
02-04-2002, 12:40 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ******:
[QUOTE]I suggest you all read Native Son by Richard Wright. It tackles the situation perfectly. It's a nice read, too.</font>

Great book. If you haven't read it already, check out 'Black Boy'. He is one of my favorite authors.

Chris Carter
carter@tamu.edu

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-04-2002, 12:41 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.</font>

If this is the case, why are we even bothering with society? I'd like to go kill my neighbor and take his car, but damn it, those stupid murder laws are preventing me from culling the herd and making sure the car gets the owner it deserves.

Comedy Doesn't Pay
02-04-2002, 12:43 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Smack Me In My Mouth:
If this is the case, why are we even bothering with society? I'd like to go kill my neighbor and take his car, but damn it, those stupid murder laws are preventing me from culling the herd and making sure the car gets the owner it deserves.</font>

Sorry, I didn't get the analogy whatsoever.

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-04-2002, 12:45 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
Sorry, I didn't get the analogy whatsoever.</font>

Better luck next time.

carter
02-04-2002, 12:48 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Smack Me In My Mouth:
White people already control our society; we're bombarded by "white propoganda" every day, as Theonemofo and Mayfuck pointed out, but white people still get uncomfortable when minorities exert and support their cultures. To me, that's still racism--you might not be lynching or persecuting anyone, but just because the symptoms are more subtle doesn't mean the disease has vanished.</font>

Similar to when minorities get uncomfortable when the majority exerts and supports its culture; i.e. displaying the Confederate Flag. Both could be classified under 'racism'.

Chris Carter
carter@tamu.edu

Mayfuck
02-04-2002, 12:49 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.</font>

Hey, you know what? I mostly agree with you. I haven't touched this issue because it's really a spin off of the issue at hand. Minorities have some serious problems in their communities, I'm not gonna deny that. We're in dire need of a Martin Luther King. Jesse Jackson used to be a decent civil rights leader, now he's a media whore. But on the subject of reperation and minorities "bitching" about being oppressed...NEWSFLASH: oppression still goes on but in more subtle ways as Smack Me In My Mouth already pointed out. And it's not just the clothes you wear I'm talking about, it's the general attitude toward minorities in this country. You can't ignore 200 years of oppression. Things like slavery, segregation, a type of indentured servitude (which is basically what happens to poor immigrants) done to certain minorities? It has placed them at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder and they we're never able to climb it until the 60's when this country decided to get serious about civil rights. But by then, it's already been too late. Projects, ghettos, barrios were already numerous and the general consensus of minorities living there is that crime rules, schools are dilapidated, they have no where to go, so why bother? It's a struggle to get out of communities like that because mainstream America often ignores and frowns upon these areas. Places like that still exist desptie the progress we've made. Nice little comment about me you made there that, only half the story, eventually had nothing to do with the argument at hand. I've already been assimilated into mainstream America (surbuban house, parents' six digit salary) if that's what you're getting at http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif

My point is, throughout our fucked up treatment of certain races throughout history, an effect has occured where groups of people have been conditioned to fail and only recently have we been trying to shake these conditions off. Some reparations have to be made to balance thes things out.

And if it means anything, I oppose affirmative action. :shrug:

Mayfuck
02-04-2002, 12:53 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by carter:
Similar to when minorities get uncomfortable when the majority exerts and supports its culture; i.e. displaying the Confederate Flag. Both could be classified under 'racism'.

Chris Carter
carter@tamu.edu</font>

Eh, not really. You can associate southern heritage with the Confederate Flag. You can also associate slavery and oppression with it, which is something you can't do with a sombrero or a Dashiki.

carter
02-04-2002, 01:00 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Eh, not really. You can associate southern heritage with the Confederate Flag. You can also associate slavery and oppression with it, which is something you can't do with a sombrero or a Dashiki.</font>

So your saying Black Entertainment Television can not be interpreted as promoting segregation? Or Puffy doing a benefit concert that excludes non-blacks as segregation?

Chris Carter
carter@tamu.edu

FearFactory
02-04-2002, 03:03 AM
<font color="orange">Allow me to add my 2 cents.

There is racism in America. It's kind of hard to ignore when you've got white guys running around waving confederate flags and talking about "lynchin' us some niggers". But, racism is not something that comes solely from white people. It's a problem that exists in the hearts and minds of all people of all cultures and unfortunately, will probably never completely go away.

I don't believe we need a Black History Month. If people don't think there's enough in our history books about non-whites, then they should petition to get more put in. What shouldn't happen is that out of a history book that's 600 pages, it's evenly divided up based upon race.

Affirmitive Action? I don't believe in it. It just allows people that could possibly not be as qualified to get into a job based on their race.

BET? I wish they would call it by a different name. Calling it BLACK (hey, what happened to AFRICAN AMERICAN?) Entertainment Television just opens the door for more racism. They should just change the name to WB http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif

Speaking of "African American", I don't like the term. You can say I'm not PC, but if I'm not gonna call a white guy European American, you can be sure I'm not gonna call a black guy African American. To French people, we are Americans... but what are their own people to themselves? Do they call themselves French, or are they like us when we use the terms "black" and "white"?

I'm not saying that we should forget what's happened in the past (you know that quote, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"), but the issue shouldn't be brought up as an excuse to get things in someone's favor.

Anyway... we're all a part of a race that's more important than "white", "black", "brown" or "green"... and as cheesy as it sounds... it's called the human race.
</font>
<font color="red">

------------------
http://raversaregay.homestead.com/files/USA.gif
You are such a pack donkey

Never_Nohen
02-04-2002, 04:48 AM
Ooh, ooh, intelligent discussion on Netphoria! (Sorry, had to be said.) Not that I'm really going to contribute anything intelligent, mostly because a lot of what I would want to say has already been quite eloquently covered by Julio, Ian, et al. Just wanted to throw out a concept called "White Privilege", a term I haven't seen mentioned yet, although a lot of people have been talking about it.

There's a great article on it <a href="http://www.utoronto.ca/acc/events/peggy1.htm"> here</a>, which almost none of you will read (but it's really short, I promise!)...But the basic idea is that white people in our culture have some (okay, lots of) generally unstated privileges and advantages conferred upon them, simply by virtue of our being white in a white-dominated culture. They're the kind of things that have probably never even occured to you, because they're so ingrained as to be invisble. For example (from the article):

"<ul>
I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals,the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less match my skin. [/list]"

I know people are going to claim some of these things are insignificant, but the point is the greater trend they illustrate: that in our culture, White is considered the default, while everything else is a deviation from the norm. Racism and inequality do still exist in our culture. However, rather than the overt "Let's lynch us some o' dem niggers" attitude that today's enlightened liberals associate with "racists", racism is a subtle and hugely pervasive underpinning of the entire American cultural system. In fact, it's so well and deeply ingrained as to be pretty much invisible, unless you're specifically looking for it. Or you're not white.

Because racism has been so institutionalized as to be invisible, it's easy to get away with "I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are Black!" Over the past thirty years, America has worked very hard to make racism eminently easy for you to ignore. But that doesn't mean it no longer exists, or that your Black best friends don't have to deal with it every day of their lives.

You don't have to be a "racist" to perpetuate racism. All you have to do is be White. If you're White, you get White Privilege. We don't have to ask for it, or even know we have it, it's still there, and its mere existence perpetuates inequality. I know that's going to piss a lot of people off, but look at it this way: I'm not trying to intimate that you're necessarily a racist simply because you're White. I'm trying to point out that the system is using you as a tool, very effectively, without your knowledge, and (at least, I'd hope, in most cases) against your will, to perpetuate oppression. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty pissed about that.

The thing is, the way for White people to perpetuate less oppression in our culture is for us to 1) be aware of our privilege and 2) work to give some of it up. And it's hard. Society won't ever let us give all of it up, at least not as individuals, because society is a great, big, mean, brute who carries a giant spikey club called Social Control, and it's not happy about the idea of its pawns growing brains, especially brains that want it to do something differently. In fact, for every little bit you give up, you're probably going to get clubbed on the head in some respect. It's really a lot more convenient to just eat your privilege up like good boys and girls, and not worry your pretty little heads about it. After all, one of those privileges is the privilege to believe "Racism is a thing of the past."

But non-white people don't have that luxury. You don't have to care about that, but if you do, you have a responsibility to do something about it. Start small. For example, I'm starting by spewing intellectual bullshit at a primarily white audience, most of whom stopped reading this long long ago, protected by the anonymity of a keyboard and screen. It's not much, it's certainly not enough, but it's a start.

You could start even smaller, by simply being aware that racism isn't being perpetuated by the fact that Puffy's hosting a benefit for Black 911 survivors, it's being perpetuated by the fact that N'Sync is *not*.

And now, having fulfilled my monthly quota of sixteen and a half pages of incessant rambling, please allow me to trip ungracefully from my soapbox, and disappear into the corner for another six weeks. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

< /52 cents >

jackboot7
02-04-2002, 05:55 AM
endangered cultures is as much a problem in our world, if not more, than endangered species. The world is becoming a mono-culture. thanks america. for which you hold most the blame.

jackboot7
02-04-2002, 05:56 AM
*awaits flaming*

Never_Nohen
02-04-2002, 06:11 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jackboot7:
endangered cultures is as much a problem in our world, if not more, than endangered species. The world is becoming a mono-culture. thanks america. for which you hold most the blame.</font>

Huzzah for Globalization.

jackboot7
02-04-2002, 03:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Never_Nohen:
Huzzah for Globalization.</font>

americanization

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:16 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.
</font>
I think this is one of the things we don't agree on,
A: People of a different Race or religion are not better than any other, therefore why segregate yourself?Black, mexican, german whatever, being proud to be different is one thing, rasing money for Black people is another.*specifically in this example* when People from EVERY race Die pretty much equally or whatever, it is the Hight of bigotry
B:I'm not racist or a bigot
I hate everyone equally
C:What I mean is by "I don't understand this shit" is that well all have different roots, different lives, different problems, different skin colors, different taste,ect. I'm just wondering when people are going to understand the ways we're the same instead of the difference, it would make things alot easier.


regarding that fucking concert,
I still think it is bullshit,
the point is that PEOPLE died
not only Black people




A totally agree...and I really think it's bullshit how people here automatically throw insults at you when they don't agree... calling someone an "ignorant fuck" just because they see things differently that you do, isn't really mature.

i'm not a racist...but i do believe that many minorities are.

As I've said before, I'm Irish... I wouldn't show up to an interview in a kilt anymore than a black person would show up in traditional african garbs... we all have cultural differences... but we keep them for the most part, at home.

You don't see people of German decent walking around in liederhosens...you don't see Dutch people walking around in wooden shoes... why? Because there are times and places for that. This is not a black-white issue. This is an everyone issue.

But I'm not talking about how people dress. I'm talking about how in all of our strides for equality, we've made people even more separated. I mean, seriously... people are so bent on fucking political correctness that this conversation itself is offensive and taboo, even though the only intention is to have a discussion about something.

Some people should lighten up... I've never seen and Asian person bitching about their "opression" and saying that they're excluded from America because Fridays doesn't offer chopsticks. So...why should black people bitch about how the fucking "gap" is marketing to them to make them more "white"? that is pure bullshit.

I know that in some parts of the country, racism still exists... but not here, not where I live...and I find it offensive to my culture, that holidays and months and concerts are given in the name of minorities, just because their skin tone is darker than mine.

When I applied to NYU... they had a "minority orientation" in central park, 2 weeks after the "prospective student orientation"... why? are black students better? do they really need a special day just for them?

It's fucking skin color, get over it.

This isn't even about culture...its about skin color... It also pisses me off how when I filled out my college aplications, I had to check a race... and there was no box for my race. Sure, they had "African American" with 50 sub-boxes to check off exactly where in Africa your line comes from... and they had "Hispanic" from 30 different countries...

But all they had for me...was a little box that said WHITE Well, that is insulting to MY fucking culture. I'm Irish/Italian/French/Spanish...well, where was my fucking "European Descent" box?

That's not equality anymore.

I don't have a problem with culture, again, I don't care how you dress... I care how this world is making it harder to be white. If all minorites wanted was equality, why isn't there? Why is it that when a white person has a problem, it's always "Rich white bastards"

Why is it assumed that the only people who care about these issues are wealthy? I do not look down on anyone, black, white, asian...I don't care. I see people as people. It's that simple.

But that doesn't change the way I think. and I'm sure you've all read what I think.

Go ahead, call me an asshole...you just don't fucking get it...because you're too dense even to understand another persons outlook.

*jenn*

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
As long as you in the minority continue to bitch about 200 years of oppression and all that shit, as long as you insist on not letting the past go, you will forever be kept out of positions of high power in mainstream America.

Only when you guys truly, truly decide to fuck what happened in the past, and to dedicate yourselves to breaking down these biased doors will you truly be accepted for what you are.

The big problem in 2002 is that you in the minority races don't have jack shit when it comes to a real leader who can lead the way in pushing down these barriers for you. Most of you vote Democratic party, there is no leader whatsoever in that party right now. It's a bunch of fucking clowns vying for control. And you certainly don't have an MLK at this time.

So I would suggest and hope that you will one day say "fuck it" to all this shit that happened in the past and go out and do your own thing instead of constantly bitching about it and using it for excuses. All this reparation shit used to gain govt. money and what not. You are only ever going to go as far as you're willing to work for. And I know for a fact that you, Mayfuck, haven't reached this point yet, considering you're right now just a dropout who spends his time on the computer all day when he could be out making opportunity for himself.</font>

i agree...thank you.

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:26 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
in regards to me waving my culture/displying it
thats fine?
i don't go around saying i'm fucking white and proud
I could care less if I were African or somthingstill doesn't give me the right to segregate myself from the rest of humanity

does anyone understand/agree with what i'm trying to say here
god i wish i were a better writer</font>


yes i agree... and i would probably get flamed less if i said it the way you do.

it wouldn't matter if I was african, or 100% spanish... i wouldn't segregate myself from the rest of society...and i would still count all americans (regardless of race) "my people"

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

</font>


*claps* exactly...fucking exactly.

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:31 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by FearFactory:
<font color="orange">Allow me to add my 2 cents.

There is racism in America. It's kind of hard to ignore when you've got white guys running around waving confederate flags and talking about "lynchin' us some niggers". But, racism is not something that comes solely from white people. It's a problem that exists in the hearts and minds of all people of all cultures and unfortunately, will probably never completely go away.

I don't believe we need a Black History Month. If people don't think there's enough in our history books about non-whites, then they should petition to get more put in. What shouldn't happen is that out of a history book that's 600 pages, it's evenly divided up based upon race.

Affirmitive Action? I don't believe in it. It just allows people that could possibly not be as qualified to get into a job based on their race.

BET? I wish they would call it by a different name. Calling it BLACK (hey, what happened to AFRICAN AMERICAN?) Entertainment Television just opens the door for more racism. They should just change the name to WB http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif

Speaking of "African American", I don't like the term. You can say I'm not PC, but if I'm not gonna call a white guy European American, you can be sure I'm not gonna call a black guy African American. To French people, we are Americans... but what are their own people to themselves? Do they call themselves French, or are they like us when we use the terms "black" and "white"?

I'm not saying that we should forget what's happened in the past (you know that quote, "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it"), but the issue shouldn't be brought up as an excuse to get things in someone's favor.

Anyway... we're all a part of a race that's more important than "white", "black", "brown" or "green"... and as cheesy as it sounds... it's called the human race.
</font>
<font color="red">

</font>

again, i agree...

melancholia
02-04-2002, 04:36 PM
and what Julio said about how minorites should have some reparations due to 200 years of injustice.

my boyfriend is JEWISH...try over 2000 years of opression, and I don't see him complaining, or asking for a Jewish History Month...or money from the governement...or any special treatment.

Nor do I see any Jews complaining like that. Blacks had it bad, they were forced into slave labor and taken away from their families and beaten...

Jews had all that, along with the duty of throwing the bodies of their loved ones into ovens... and smelling their corpses... and this was 50 years ago, not 200...

give it a break...if anyone has the right to feel slighted by modern society, it's the Jews... and they, for the most part...ask for nothing.



[This message has been edited by melancholia (edited 02-04-2002).]

theonemofo
02-04-2002, 07:04 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Comedy Doesn't Pay:
No, it doesn't. Any time you implement a system where you give a job to a lesser qualified candidate, which does happen sometimes, you are automatically creating more problems than you're trying to solve. See my last post. If you constantly insist on having the rules fixed in your favor instead of taking the initiative yourself to create opportunity, then you will never reach the top.

I hate to break this to you, but the entire universe is built on the premise of "survival of the fittest, brightest, and strongest". No affirmative action program can fuck with science. So get over it.

</font>

did you read what i said? it's not tilting things in one race's favor. it's not hiring less qualified candidates. there are stigma for just being a minority when it comes to evaluation.

theonemofo
02-04-2002, 07:10 PM
listen, a book you might want to read is "why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?"

i had to read it before i came to college, and i almost burned the damn thing, because it pissed me off so much when i started it. i pretty much thought the same way a lot of the people i'm currently arguing against thought.

but if you're level-headed enough to finish it, you'll find that there's a lot of important points. i wish i had it with me, so i could toss a few quotes your way.

melancholia
02-04-2002, 07:14 PM
who wrote it?

theonemofo
02-05-2002, 12:36 AM
i forget, lemme check amazon.com

beverly tatum. she's a bit too radical for me at times, but a lot of what she wrote in that book really gives a great view on racism.

Mayfuck
02-05-2002, 04:28 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:

A totally agree...and I really think it's bullshit how people here automatically throw insults at you when they don't agree... calling someone an "ignorant fuck" just because they see things differently that you do, isn't really mature.</font>

If I throw insults, it's because I was offended by your "opinion."

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">i'm not a racist...but i do believe that many minorities are.</font>

It would help yourself if you just said there are racists everywhere, instead of singling out minorities.


<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">As I've said before, I'm Irish... I wouldn't show up to an interview in a kilt anymore than a black person would show up in traditional african garbs... we all have cultural differences... but we keep them for the most part, at home.</font>

I made the point about clothing as being symbolic of cultural pride and how it's entitled to everyone, not just minorities. When the hell did I mention people wearing traditional garments to work, school, etc.?

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">You don't see people of German decent walking around in liederhosens...you don't see Dutch people walking around in wooden shoes... why? Because there are times and places for that. This is not a black-white issue. This is an everyone issue.</font>

This is so beside the point I am not even going to comment on it.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">But I'm not talking about how people dress. I'm talking about how in all of our strides for equality, we've made people even more separated. I mean, seriously... people are so bent on fucking political correctness that this conversation itself is offensive and taboo, even though the only intention is to have a discussion about something.</font>

Yeah, I just sent the ACLU after you. So watch out!

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Some people should lighten up... I've never seen and Asian person bitching about their "opression" and saying that they're excluded from America because Fridays doesn't offer chopsticks. So...why should black people bitch about how the fucking "gap" is marketing to them to make them more "white"? that is pure bullshit.</font>

Man, oh man. Stop complaining about something that doesn't exist. Asians go to Fridays and they don't complain that there are no chopsticks. You know what else? Blacks don't go to the Gap and complain that they don't sell any FUBU gear. Go re-read Ian's post about clothing if you still haven't figured out why the Gap/Gucci, etc. can be seen as a disenfranchisement of cultures.


<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I know that in some parts of the country, racism still exists... but not here, not where I live...and I find it offensive to my culture, that holidays and months and concerts are given in the name of minorities, just because their skin tone is darker than mine.</font>

Oh please. You live in NYC, right? Just because there are many ethnicities present doesn't mean it's some kind racial equality haven. Are you fucking blind and don't notice the socioeconomic divisions in your perfect lil' metropolis? The race issue is tied in to that. You seem to be arguing on the basis that America is some kind of racial utopia which isn't even worth discussing.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">When I applied to NYU... they had a "minority orientation" in central park, 2 weeks after the "prospective student orientation"... why? are black students better? do they really need a special day just for them?</font>

THE REASON WHY THERE ARE CONCERTS, FUNDS, HOLIDAYS, ORIENTATIONS, ETC. EXCLUSIVELY FOR MINORITIES IS NOT TO "SEGREGATE" THEMSELVES FROM SOCIETY OR TO SMITE WHITEY. RE-READ MY REPLY TO BLACK JELLIE BEAN.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">It's fucking skin color, get over it.</font>

*sigh* And there's lots of baggage that comes with it, dear.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">This isn't even about culture</font>

lol

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">...its about skin color... It also pisses me off how when I filled out my college aplications, I had to check a race... and there was no box for my race. Sure, they had "African American" with 50 sub-boxes to check off exactly where in Africa your line comes from... and they had "Hispanic" from 30 different countries...</font>

30 different countries? I have never came across anything like that and I've filled many applications to various colleges. Usually they use that for statistical purposes anyway. You're beginning to exaggerate things; you're really irked by this issue aren't you? And you can't help but place a little of that anger on minorities, huh? Hm, I sense a little...racism? :x


<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">But all they had for me...was a little box that said WHITE Well, that is insulting to MY fucking culture. I'm Irish/Italian/French/Spanish...well, where was my fucking "European Descent" box?</font>

Once again, they put these things usually for statistical purpose. Minorities get a little more representation (a little, okay? not the exaggeration you're making) because we understand less about minorities and need to make more detailed analyses of them.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">That's not equality anymore.</font>

That's just a fucking survey!

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>


Bam! You finally admitted it! The world would be so much better if everyone acted white! If you don't see anything racist about that statement, then it's truly hopeless to get my point across to you.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">If all minorites wanted was equality, why isn't there? Why is it that when a white person has a problem, it's always "Rich white bastards"</font>

Okay, now you're just stereotyping minorities. Isn't a large majority of affluent people white anyway?


<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Why is it assumed that the only people who care about these issues are wealthy? I do not look down on anyone, black, white, asian...I don't care. I see people as people. It's that simple.</font>

Good for you. A large number of minorities share the same view and agree with you. You tend to forget that.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Go ahead, call me an asshole...you just don't fucking get it...because you're too dense even to understand another persons outlook.</font>

I'm not going to try to understand your "opinion," because I already do. You made your point clearly. I live in the most multicultural city in the the most multicultural state in the most multicultural country. I come across people who share your views everyday, so don't start with this dense bullshit. If any one here is dense, it's you, for not even attempting to see my logic. And I seriously doubt you read any of the counterarguments to your opinion in this thread because you keep rehashing old ideas.

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 02-05-2002).]

Mayfuck
02-05-2002, 04:34 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
I care how this world is making it harder to be white.</font>

doctor gonzo
02-05-2002, 04:38 PM
best thread ever.

------------------
www.nevercrashnow.com (http://www.nevercrashnow.com)

Smack Me In My Mouth
02-05-2002, 04:46 PM
Oh, hey, it's this post again.

I see Julio, that crafty Latino, is once again persecuting the White Man. Give it up, man--melancholia has proved without a doubt that we have universal acceptance and "tolerance" in our society. I mean, why else would we have to check boxes when we apply to college? It's almost a shame. I miss the old status quo already.

Mayfuck
02-05-2002, 04:54 PM
http://www.warriors4jah.com/images/pics_section/img2.jpg

bonsor
02-05-2002, 05:04 PM
It has been officially verified by Julio that meloncholia is a dumbshit.

Do you even know what it's like for life to be 'hard'? I mean, something worse than having the Banana Republic running out of Khakis in your size. Has anyone in your family been enslaved? Have you ever been oppressed by people simply because of your race? Have you ever been grossly stereotyped to the point where people won't trust you or give your proper wages? Have you ever been turned down for a job because of the color of your skin? Until any of these things happen on a regular basis, shut the fuck up about how life is becoming oh so hard because you are caucasian.

tweedyburd
02-05-2002, 06:33 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ******:
shut the fuck up about how life is becoming oh so hard because you are caucasian.</font>

I don't want to get into some big debate here, but before you say that with any ounce of sincerity, it may be a reality that isn't that far away. This is just food for thought, so please do not take it as arguing one way or the other...

According to United Nations statistics, the current birth and death rate of people of European descent in America compared to the birth and death rate of minorities is so overmatched by the latter that by sometime in the next 20-30 years people of European descent will be passed up by the minorities that exist now. It's not just the birth rate, though. The overwhelming immigration plays a big part, too, especially when several million or so of those are illegals.

So, realistically, if birth rates don't change, and our immigration policy remains so ragged, American will no longer have people of European descent as a majority sometime around 2035.

I don't take issue with any of this, it just seemed like something that might spark more discussion--as I think those who even see this as worrisome have only domestic policy and poor border control to blame, but it's something worth noting.



[This message has been edited by tweedyburd (edited 02-05-2002).]

melancholia
02-05-2002, 08:32 PM
******... i'm not caucasian... my grandfather was spanish (not as in Spain) as in Puerto Rico. My mothers last name is Aguilo'... her side of the family speaks Spanish...

and by saying "understand what i'm trying to say" doesn't fucking mean to agree with me... but you don't have to act like a prick when I don't agree with your opinion.

Yes, I do live in a place where racism is pretty rare. I'm not saying that there is no racism...I'm saying that it's pretty rare.

Colleges ask about race because they want to ensure that their college doesn't get called racist when they don't allow the "right" percentage of minorities in. Same thing in the fucking workplace... if you hire a white guy over a minority...they'll fucking sue. regardless of who was more qualified.

it happens everywhere. a guy is speeding, he gets pulled over...if he's white, that's OK...if he's black...it's racial profiling. give me a break... i hear about this shit all the time...

History and society should not be dictated by what you look like, it should be dictated by what you contribute.

Minorites are in history books... everywhere... just open your eyes and look.

Every single group has been discriminated against... Catholics, Protestants, Pagans, Jews, Irish, Italian, Spanish, French, German, Blacks.

...but why is it only some groups who complain about it? my grandmother has told me fucking stories about how she wasn't allowed to go to the catholic school just because she was Italian... she's not screaming about her "oppression".

I feel lucky that I was born looking "whiter" than my grandfather, maybe I've avoided all the "oppression" that you claim that you have... but i know of lots of people who agree with me... and they're not all white.

200 years of oppression is NOTHING compared to what the Jews had (2000 years) 200 years of oppression is NOTHING compared to what the Native Americans endured... and these groups don't ask for special treatment...

Neither does the "white" majority...which is really just a mix of other cultures. It's not us-against-them...

Those "ghettos" you speak of Julio, have been inhabited by countless generations of "white" people, Jews have lived in ghettos too...except they were shot in theirs.

What the hell is wrong with "mainstream america"? why do you have to resist so fucking much? Every other culture has gotten used to what you need to do to succeed in this country.

You don't need reparations...everyone has gotten some crap in their lives... you don't need anymore than any other cultural group

BET and non-black concerts *is* promoting segregation...if you want it to stop...stop it yourself.

melancholia
02-05-2002, 08:33 PM
******... just because you don't agree, doesn't mean that you have to act like a prick about it...seriously.

by the way Julio, you're way cooler on AIM.

MisterSquishyHalo
02-05-2002, 11:24 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
I hate when people play it like a trump card,
while in tight jams,
also I hate how because they're the minority, they get to be racist, giving them more initial rights than everyone else
example?
puff daddy or p diddy (or what ever the fuck he is) does a concert to support the african americans who died on 9-11,
If someone tried to pull a concert for the white people who died the fucking race flag would be up and that would be the end of it.
we're all fucking human
I don't see the point of this shit
*I know that I'm half being hipicritical

</font>


heres a clue, go tell someone who gives a fuck.

Mayfuck
02-05-2002, 11:30 PM
I'm not going to try to argue with you anymore, Jenn. You've made it clear by regurgitating the same thing you posted on the first page that you don't care to refute or acknowledge points I made in this thread and that you have no inclination to absolve your ignorance

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by melancholia:
by the way Julio, you're way cooler on AIM.</font>

I'm cool when I talk to you on AIM, but I'm no longer cool when I disagree with you. Dense? Netphoria, you make the call!<font color=black size=1>

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 02-05-2002).]

Saturday Night Siva
02-06-2002, 03:43 AM
Hands down the best quote in this thread.

"even though i had to kick his ass a few times cause he had a penchant fro getting drunk and smacking his wife, he was good people"