View Full Version : Kurt's suicide on Unsolved Mysteries


Helena Handbasket
01-11-2002, 12:03 PM
Did you know...

-The suicide note was thought to be a letter of reitirement to his fans, except for the last four lines. Coincidentally, the last four lines, when examined my handwriting analysts, they thought they were "suspicious", and could have been done by someone elese, trying to copy Kurt's writing.

-Kurt was found with an amount of heroin in his system that would've made it impossible to function enough to even shoot a gun

-There weren't any fingerprints found on the gun or the pen used to write the note

-There was activiy on his credit card the day before his body was found (which would've been a few days after he actually shot himself)

I dunno if this is old news or anything, I just thought it was weird.

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AIM - elegantsomething

StillBecomingApart
01-11-2002, 12:07 PM
I didn't know that

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BeautifulLoser
01-11-2002, 12:21 PM
I knew about a few of those things.. didn't know about the Credit Card thing. Weird.

Sentinel
01-11-2002, 12:26 PM
there's more where that came from....


http://www.cobaincase.com/

meow
01-11-2002, 12:51 PM
Did you know...

-Unsolved Mysteries will tell you ANYTHING to get you to watch them because they need the ratings.

Undone
01-11-2002, 12:53 PM
<font color="CC33CC">I already knew a few of those too--these kinds of things make me paranoid b/c I have no idea who Tom Grant is and if his page is 'official' and if he is an actual investigator. And if he has his own motives. How much of that info is true?

Undone
01-11-2002, 12:56 PM
<font color="CC33CC">The page also says that the gun wasn't checked for prints until a month after the death; that doesn't mean there were no prints in the first place. It also assumes that the gun was purchased for protection and not suicide just b/c there were 3 bullets loaded. If I were going to kill myself, I'd be sure that if I somehow fucked that up the first time I'd have another one coming quick.

meow
01-11-2002, 12:59 PM
no prints= no COMPLETE prints.. there may have been smudges but nothing they could get a sample from

Undone
01-11-2002, 01:00 PM
<font color="CC33CC">The heroin part and the note are the 2 things that I think are the kickers. I know very little about drugs, and I have no idea how long heroin dosage takes to go into effect though this page (which I don't entirely trust) says that amount would immediately incapacitate someone.

A lot of people say drop it b/c it's "old" news, but that's ridiculous as in relative terms, it's still a fairly recent event. There is enough suspicious evidence to bring this to trial. Murder trials are brought up decades after the fact when necessary.

THE MACHINA666
01-11-2002, 02:00 PM
Well... I've read many time the detective's report (the one that Courtney hired, and the one who's believing she's guilty as piss), and I must admit: there is someting weird there.

According to him, at least.

Some details:

-Kurt was shooting up WAY more than a "normal" person. But people got to the conclusion "he had 3 times the heroin required in his body to o-d" and decided that this was the truth.

Though I admit, 3 times the quantity is a bit much...


Here... while we're at it, here's some of Tom Grant's (detective) things most people don't know:

-COURTNEY LOVE WAS FACING A DIVORCE

Kurt was in the process of leaving Seattle and his wife Courtney, when he was found dead.

-SOMEONE WAS USING KURT'S CREDIT CARD

One of Kurt's credit cards was missing when his body was discovered.

Someone was attempting to use the missing credit card after Cobain died, but the attempts stopped when his body was discovered.

-COBAIN WAS IN FEAR OF HIS LIFE

The shotgun found at the scene was purchased BEFORE Cobain left for rehab in Los Angeles, NOT AFTER he fled the rehab as reported by misinformed media sources.

The shotgun was fully loaded with three shells. It was purchased and loaded for protection, not suicide.

The police claim there were no legible fingerprints on this shotgun!

The truth is, the shotgun wasn't even checked for fingerprints until May 6th, nearly one month after Cobain's body was found.

-COURTNEY HAD ANOTHER NOTE SHE KEPT IN SECRET!

Courtney was in possession of a second note after Kurt's body was found! SHE DIDN'T TELL ANYONE about this second note until several months later when information about it slipped out during an interview with Rolling Stone Magazine.

The second note, the one that Courtney kept in secret, clearly defines the first note which was found at the scene of Cobain's death. The "second note" from Kurt plainly states he was leaving Courtney and he was leaving Seattle. He was NOT leaving the planet!

-COBAIN WAS INJECTED WITH 3 TIMES A LETHAL DOSE OF HEROIN!!

Cobain's heroin, (morphine), blood level was 1.52 mgs per liter. This would require a minimum injection of 225 mgs of heroin, three times a lethal dose, even for a hardcore heroin addict! The drug Diazepam, was also found in Cobain's blood system.

THE OBVIOUS QUESTIONS:

1. If Cobain injected himself with a deliberate heroin overdose, why would he ALSO shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, leaving his baby daughter - the love of his life - with horrific visual images to remember him by? Why not just "go to sleep" on the overdose and never wake up?

2. IF Cobain injected three times a lethal dose of heroin, COULD he then pick up a shotgun and shoot himself? Wouldn't he have been immediately incapacitated?

Based on the heroin, (morphine), blood levels found in Cobain's body, preliminary research indicates Kurt Cobain would have been immediately incapacitated. He could not have picked up that shotgun. He could not have pulled that trigger!

IN ADDITION...

Cobain was not barricaded inside the room as reported by misinformed media sources.

The stool which was supposedly wedged" against the door was actually just sitting in front of the two unlocked doors that only led out to a balcony.

Cobain did not leave his Driver’s License out for identification as reported by misinformed media sources.

The first police officer on the scene found Cobain's closed wallet, opened it to remove Kurt's driver's license, and displayed it in order to take a photograph.

THE FACT IS...

The police and the Medical Examiner have no forensic evidence that proves Cobain's death was a suicide. On the other hand, there's a substantial amount of evidence for murder.

The official verdict of "suicide" was simply a rush to judgement which eventually painted the authorities into a corner as reports of so-called "copy-cat" suicides began making the news.

As you examine this case carefully, you're going to discover there's much more to the events surrounding Cobain's death than what you've been told.

Source: http://www.cobaincase.com/


Also:

-Kurt had music plan w/ his buddy, the lead singer from R.E.M.

Nothing was ever recorded.


Don't get ideas though: tom Grant is a weird fellow, too. The fact that he SAW the "second" letter, and DIDN'T take it when he had the chance proves that he might JUST NOT be the best damn detective around.

Maybe Courtney played him. She might be crazy, she's still smart.


The fact is: we DON'T know shit, and we're NOT going to know shit either.


R.I.P Kurt...


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On my own... when I need you...

tootsie
01-11-2002, 02:00 PM
i think its nasty tom grant is making money off of kurt's death.

whatever tho, it really wasnt investigated as much as it should have been.

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aim: nicepickle
help get me through my workday.

Etienne
01-11-2002, 02:06 PM
As for the heroin question, If you whould have shot that much heroin at once, witch he whould have had to to still have that much in his system for the exam, He whould have been unconcious before he even took the needle out of his arm.

Kurts dead. Sure it was suspicious, Everyone knows about the El Duce thing right? but he isnt comming back so just let the man rest in peace.

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Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

THE MACHINA666
01-11-2002, 02:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by tootsie:
i think its nasty tom grant is making money off of kurt's death.

whatever tho, it really wasnt investigated as much as it should have been.

</font>

He's broke. I don't even think he's a detective now. There was some court shit between him and Courtney if I remember correctly.

He's been saying she was guilty almost right away, so he's not just "making money over a strange little story". Even today he says the same thing as in 1994.

But I agree w/ you. All this case was like sloppy joe. When he wanted to go search a certain house, and Courtney told him not too, that it was already been searched by "someone else", he should have had brain enough to fucking go! Or get someone HE trust to go there.


If I remember correctly again, I think that's where Kurt was found...

Andrew_Pakula
01-11-2002, 03:51 PM
I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.

Etienne
01-11-2002, 04:08 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:
[B]
and Courtney told him not too, that it was already been searched by "someone else", he should have had brain enough to fucking go! Or get someone HE trust to go there.
B]</font>

Courtney told him not to search the green house because nothing was up there, that was 2 days after he was actually dead, and a day or so before his body was found. She only let him search the main house.

The rumor is Kurt had the shotgun up in the green house with him, because no one could see the greenhouse when approaching at night, he was trying to protect himself, Dylan suposedly always hung out with him in the greenhouse, and brought him drugs all the time, implying that he was there when kurt died. this is probaly just courtney propaganda though.

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Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

Human Replica Droid
01-11-2002, 04:09 PM
Doesn't Courtney have an alibi?

bonsor
01-11-2002, 04:18 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Andrew_Pakula:
I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.</font>A lot of SP fans are Hole fans as well and visa versa. In the highly unlikely case that Billy was the only one who actually knew that Courtney did it, he would be hesitant to testify, because it would fuck his career over.

luminescent
01-11-2002, 04:20 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:

If Cobain injected himself with a deliberate heroin overdose, why would he ALSO shoot himself in the head with a shotgun, leaving his baby daughter - the love of his life - with horrific visual images to remember him by? Why not just "go to sleep" on the overdose and never wake up?


</font>

lmfao!

how fucking DUMB is this guy??

jesus christ...never again..haha.



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Etienne
01-11-2002, 04:23 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Human Replica Droid:
Doesn't Courtney have an alibi?</font>

dosent she always. no one thinks courtney pulled the triger, but she probally pain someone else to do it.. Enter EL duce

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Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess

THE MACHINA666
01-11-2002, 04:52 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by luminescent:
lmfao!

how fucking DUMB is this guy??

jesus christ...never again..haha.

</font>

Yeah... that's what I was saying... that guy isn't the sharpest tool...



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On my own... when I need you...

THE MACHINA666
01-11-2002, 05:06 PM
Something's missing in here... John maybe?


[This message has been edited by THE MACHINA666 (edited 01-11-2002).]

tootsie
01-11-2002, 05:32 PM
actually, courtney has said several times that billiam saved her life in the days after kurts death. he cleaned all the puke off her and washed her up and took care of her. she said he saved her life.

so if billy believes she did it, he'd be pretty nuts to be that close to her.

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aim: nicepickle
help get me through my workday.

paranoid
01-12-2002, 01:54 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Andrew_Pakula:
I think I remember an interview Billy did once where he was asked about Courtney and Kurt around that time, his response was something he knows a lot more of the behind the scenes stuff that was going on at the time then anyone even currently knows, based on his previous relationship with Courtney makes me wonder if he really knows happened reguarding Kurt's death. However if Billy does know I suppose it's one of those things you might just take to your grave.</font>

if we're talking about the same interview here then BC's words got twisted.

It was Howard Stern right? they were talking about Evan Dando and stern says "isn't this the guy that was said to be with courtney at the time of kurts death?" and all billy said was "you wouldn't believe half the shit i know"

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Nick K
01-12-2002, 02:25 PM
i don't have any strong opinion on whether he shot himself or someone else did, but judging from all i've read above the case should at least be re-opened.

Nate the Grate
01-12-2002, 03:54 PM
regarding the finger prints: the gun was pried away from kurt's hands after rigor mortis had set in. likely, the prints were smudged off.

and kurt was already known to take insane amounts of heroin and walk away from it.

Flebath
01-12-2002, 04:13 PM
anyone wanting some more info should def. check out Kurt & Courtney. that was a very interesting movie. I think it was Courtney's plan for a long time to further her career by killing Kurt. Another interesting thing is the mystery surrounding Jim Morrison's death. There were many things that didn't add up just like Kurt's. Anyone interested should check out http://www.jmorrison.cjb.net/ its under the rumors, myths, and urban legends part of the site.

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pumpkintear
01-12-2002, 05:09 PM
Doesn't that detective guys site say that Courtney was bragging that she was sleeping with Billy a few days after Kurt died?

numberthirteen
01-12-2002, 05:16 PM
I thought this mystery was already solved in the court of public opinion

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I want his heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah ... I want to rip out his heart and feed it to him.

jenny4ever
01-12-2002, 07:44 PM
I saw parts of the documentary and now after reading the summary of events i think she did it-the rolling stone interview is really weird and Courtney is just so inconsistent.

"THE ROLLING STONE INTERVIEW
The DECEMBER. 15, 1994 issue of Rolling Stone featured an interview with Courtney by David Fricke. This was one of the most interesting interviews I've read so far. It describes Courtney's mind-set and reveals what I consider to be a psychopathic personality.
Throughout this interview, Courtney seems preoccupied with convincing everyone how suicidal Kurt was. She tells a story about Kurt bringing a gun to the hospital room when Frances was born and she heroically grabbed the gun from him and said, "I'll go first, I can't have you do it first. I'll go first."

This whole story is difficult to believe. I find it interesting that Courtney was so absorbed in promoting the image of Kurt's suicidal tendencies right after his beautiful daughter was born, that she showed no concern at all for the fact that Frances would grow up hearing this horror story once it got published. It certainly wouldn't be the best thing for her self-esteem.


BUT NOW...THERE'S ANOTHER NOTE?!
Questions about Kurt's so-called "suicide note" were also raised by Fricke during the Rolling Stone interview with Courtney. Feeling pressured to explain why the note was so confusing and not really suicidal, Courtney finally admitted Kurt also left her another note!

Oh really!!

During a taped telephone conversation between her and I on January 19, 1995, I asked Courtney about this "other" note. She claimed she found it on her bed under a pillow. I know this is not true because Thursday morning, well after the time of Kurt's death, I looked under the pillows. I also looked under the bed and between the mattresses. That's where I found a package of the drug Rohypnol that I later told Courtney about. Dylan and I were looking everywhere for drugs and drug paraphernalia that might indicate whether or not Kurt had been in the house recently.

I asked her why she didn't tell me about the "other" note when she found it, or even some time later. After all, she had indicated she wanted me to investigate her husband's death. I couldn't understand why she'd withhold such a vital piece of evidence! Courtney said she didn't think it was necessary.

"I told Sgt. Cameron about it," she told me. "And I told Rosemary about it." Another obvious lie!

If the police knew right away about this "other" note, it would have been listed as evidence and mentioned in the police reports. If Rosemary Carroll would have known about it during the first few months after Cobain's death, she certainly would have told me. She had put her career and relationship with Courtney at risk to provide me with evidence, including Courtney's phone records from the Peninsula Hotel. She was working closely with me to find out what happened. Rosemary was telling me everything else. There's no way she would have kept details of this "second note" from me!

Even more important however, is what the second note says. Courtney admitted to me it wasn't suicidal. She quoted some lines to Rolling Stone, "You know I love you, I love Frances, I'm so sorry. Please don't follow me... I'll be there, I'll protect you. I don't know where I'm going, I just can't be here anymore."

So the reason I was never told about the second note and the reason it was never released to the media is obvious: The note found at the scene by the police was simply a retirement letter written to Kurt's fans. It wasn't a "suicide" note! Upon close examination, the words at the bottom of this note, "Which will be so much happier without me," appear to have been added to the note by another hand.

The second note, the one Courtney kept in secret, defines the first note, the one discovered at the scene. Kurt was quitting the music business. He was leaving Courtney and he was leaving Seattle. That's all he was doing. . . and Courtney knew it!"

THE MACHINA666
01-12-2002, 07:51 PM
And Courtney knew that w/ a divorce, she would have 50% of all his stuff. And 100% if he died.

ava adore 13
01-12-2002, 07:57 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:
And Courtney knew that w/ a divorce, she would have 50% of all his stuff. And 100% if he died.</font>

exactly.
and kurt wanted a divorce.

and it all worked out for courtney, didn't it. she has all of kurts money, she owns all of his songs. not to mention the timing of kurts death (a week before her album 'live through this' was released). she has made herself rich and famous off of kurt and his music.

[This message has been edited by ava adore 13 (edited 01-12-2002).]

THE MACHINA666
01-12-2002, 08:04 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ava adore 13:
exactly.
and kurt wanted a divorce.</font>

Though that doesn't prove she killed him (of arranged his death).

It could be ALL coincidences...



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On my own... when I need you...

ava adore 13
01-12-2002, 08:09 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by THE MACHINA666:
Though that doesn't prove she killed him (of arranged his death).

It could be ALL coincidences...

</font>

i know. i don't think she DEFINITELY killed him (even though it may seem that way when i talk about this subject), but i think it is very possible.

i think SOMEONE killed him, though.



[This message has been edited by ava adore 13 (edited 01-12-2002).]

THE MACHINA666
01-12-2002, 08:20 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ava adore 13:
i know. i don't think she DEFINATELY killed him (or had him killed), but i think it is very possible.

i think SOMEONE killed him, though.

</font>

Yeah...

Anyone heard his LAST song?

It's called "Over the mountain", but it has actually many titles (also You got no right)... Only live recording have been found of that song so far, by fans, and VERY FEW have heard the studio version of it.

Those people all agree that this song is AMAZING.

Courtney has the song now... she wanted to put out a box set for 2001 (10 years after Nevermind), then, w/ all the law suits again the remaining members of Nirvana, people doubt it'll even be out for the 10th anniversary of Cobain's death...

Oh well... who knows really...?

Here are the lyrics:

I would never bother you
I would never promise to
I would never bother you
I would never promise to
If I say that word again
I would move away from here
You won't be afraid of fear
You won't be afraid of fear
You won't be afraid of fear
I am walking in the piss
Always knew it would come to this
Things have never been so swell
And I have never felt so well
You know you're right
You know you're right
You know you're right

Whistle and I'll come inside
I no longer have to hide
Let's talk about someone else
She just wants to love herself
She moves away from here
She just wants to love herself
I won't move from here
You won't be afraid of fear
I won't move from here
You won't be afraid of fear
I am walking in the piss
Always knew it would come to this
Things have never been so swell
And I have never been so well
You know you're right
You know you're right
You know you're right
Maybe you're right...


Other lyrics exits, including those:

"I don't think I love you now..."



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On my own... when I need you...

ava adore 13
01-12-2002, 08:28 PM
yeah, it's an amazing song. i've heard the live version...and i've heard about 15 seconds of the studio version (the version that was going to be in the boxset). even just judging by those 15 seconds you can tell it's a fantastic song.

Angela Scalpel
01-12-2002, 08:51 PM
yeah, I read one of the books that has all that info in it.

-I am convinced that the note was simply a retirement to the rock community. the handwriting changes on the last few lines that imply he is killing himself. coincidence? nah.

-I am also convinced that Courtney was involved in her former bassist's death. Kristen HAD NOT done heroin in months when she was found dead in her apartment. Eric Erlandson (Hole's guitarist) was the LAST person seen in Kristen's home. though they were good friends, Courtney and Eric were also pretty close.

god, I could go on, cause the book I read says so much. I have tons of opinions on the matter. but I will stop there.

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Helena Handbasket
01-12-2002, 09:50 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Angela Scalpel:
yeah, I read one of the books that has all that info in it.

-I am convinced that the note was simply a retirement to the rock community. the handwriting changes on the last few lines that imply he is killing himself. coincidence? nah.

-I am also convinced that Courtney was involved in her former bassist's death. Kristen HAD NOT done heroin in months when she was found dead in her apartment. Eric Erlandson (Hole's guitarist) was the LAST person seen in Kristen's home. though they were good friends, Courtney and Eric were also pretty close.

god, I could go on, cause the book I read says so much. I have tons of opinions on the matter. but I will stop there.

</font>

What is the name of that book? Sounds interesting.


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...I'll put the fire out with my splooge! (http://www.livejournal.com/users/freakforhire)

AIM - elegantsomething

ava adore 13
01-12-2002, 10:27 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Angela Scalpel:
-I am convinced that the note was simply a retirement to the rock community. the handwriting changes on the last few lines that imply he is killing himself. coincidence? nah.
</font>

also, the lines that imply suicide (the ones in the different handwriting) are written AFTER he had signed it 'kurt cobain'.

ava adore 13
01-12-2002, 10:34 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Helena Handbasket:
What is the name of that book? Sounds interesting.


</font>

i think Angela Scalpel is talking about the book 'who killed kurt cobain?' by ian halperin and max wallace. it's a very interesting book.

PhantomFM
01-14-2002, 01:36 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by ******:
A lot of SP fans are Hole fans as well and visa versa. In the highly unlikely case that Billy was the only one who actually knew that Courtney did it, he would be hesitant to testify, because it would fuck his career over.</font>

Even if it would have an adverse affect on his career I don't think he would care- ie adore, machina, the break up of the pumpkins- those things lost him way more fans than pissing off a few hole fans would- besides, I don't think it would have any adverse affect on his career- quite the opposite- much more ppl hate courtney than like her, especially pumpkin fans, nirvana fans. ppl would love to hear someone else say something incriminating about courtney and to further idolize kurt- make him even more of the Christ image than he really is.

this being said, I highly doubt that what he knows is anything incriminating about courtney as I don't think he would protect her if he thought she killed him.

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PhantomFM (http://phantomfm.8m.com)

teebo11
01-14-2002, 01:51 AM
there' sa bbc documentary called "kurt and courtney"

it's really good.

even if courtney didn't kill kurt/ or have somebody do it for her.

she was a psychodic bitch.. and still is.

i-hum-rocket
01-14-2002, 03:24 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"> and kurt was already known to take insane amounts of heroin and walk away from it. </font>

as someone who was a hardcore heroin addict for 5 yrs, i can tell you without hesitation that there is NO WAY IN HELL that he could have possibly done that much and then shot himself. i knew 20-yr H addicts, and none of them would even think about risking a dose that big.

Helena Handbasket
01-14-2002, 06:55 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by teebo11:
there' sa bbc documentary called "kurt and courtney"

it's really good.

even if courtney didn't kill kurt/ or have somebody do it for her.

she was a psychodic bitch.. and still is.</font>

Is it anything like "Sid and Nancy"?
.
.
.
Doesn't Courtney actually have a part in that movie? Weird.


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AIM - elegantsomething

mungo
01-14-2002, 07:03 AM
I did it, and I'd do it again.

melancholia
01-14-2002, 07:38 AM
if you ever read the Grant files, you'll truly believe that Kurt was murdered. Grant is an PI who investigated the case... there were a fuck of a lot of screw ups... people have admitted that courtney offered them money to kill Kurt...I'm convinced.
That's the entire reason I HATE Courtney Love...
Wow... I've been having this same discussion since '95...

*jenn*

Nate the Grate
01-14-2002, 10:04 AM
that's gonna be one helluva Behind the Music

jenny4ever
01-14-2002, 11:05 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by teebo11:
there' sa bbc documentary called "kurt and courtney"

it's really good.

even if courtney didn't kill kurt/ or have somebody do it for her.

she was a psychodic bitch.. and still is.</font>

i'm with ya on that one.

I am really bothered by how ademant she was about him being suicidal and no one else really was and how no one really called the rome incident a suicide attempt until after he had died.

and about the fingerprints on the gun-yea maybe they had to get it out of his hands but when the police do that theyre VERY careful not to mess up fingerprints and if he'd handled the gun then there probably would have been atleast ONE finger print on it somewhere-the smudges make it sound like someone wiped the thing off.

THE MACHINA666
01-14-2002, 12:01 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by i-hum-rocket:
as someone who was a hardcore heroin addict for 5 yrs,</font>

HI ClinT!!!!!!!!


Bleh... we'll just never know...

The book HEAVIER THAN HEAVEN is pretty good, should I mention. It goes deep into the life of Cobain. The author had the right to peek into Kurt's diaries, letters he's never sent, etc...

It's a bit depressive, but it's highly enjoyable...



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On my own... when I need you...

meow
01-14-2002, 12:56 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by numberthirteen:
I thought this mystery was already solved in the court of public opinion

</font>

public opinion is uneducated and full of bias

teebo11
01-14-2002, 01:06 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Helena Handbasket:
Is it anything like "Sid and Nancy"?
.
.
.
Doesn't Courtney actually have a part in that movie? Weird.


</font>


I've never seen sid and nancy, but the bbc documentary has a lot of good insights to courtney's past. they do interviews with her X boyfriends who all claim she's crazy, they do mutiple interviews with her dad who also claims she's crazy... he also says that she was having an affair with billy corgan while cobain was in rehab.

he also does an interview iwth el duce

el duce was later killed about a week after the interview.

the documentary also has an interview with the last babysitter to work for the cobain family... she left the job about a week or so before he died because she couldn't take the houshold fighting over the will and other things like that. Aparently also there is suspiscion that courtney turned frances bean off of kurt by ruining her image of her. she used to love her dad, but the babysitter said the last time he came home to see her she was scared of him for som ereason.

also, the documentary contains interviews with journalists assulted by courtney. this one young book writer recieved many answering machine messages in which her life was threatened by kurt and courtney respectively. at one point they talk about paying somebody to have her killed.

lots of proof that if anything else, courtney is crazy.

go watch the documentary. it's great.




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I wish i could move the stars for you....
Watch them fall and sparkle fade into the sea

Cause if the stars would fall for me...
Then surely you would too

LJ (http://www.livejournal.com/users/chris11) aim: hopeforvicki

melancholia
01-14-2002, 01:33 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Nate the Grate:
that's gonna be one helluva Behind the Music</font>

Courtney owns 1/4 of the Nirvana name... and she refuses to allow a Behind the Music on Nirvana... mostly because she knows some of this shit would come up.

whore.

paranoid
01-14-2002, 03:09 PM
I'd like to point out that courtney's father said she was having an affair WITH EVAN DANDO at that time. he met dando, yadda yadda when he went to visit her, they were sleeping in the same hotel bed and so on. courtney kicks dando out and calls kurt. her father says that that was the closest he had been to kurt.

i was also reading grants case files where he says the press was saying courtney was greiving in seattle when in actuality she was calling grant from arizona and bragging about sleeping with corgan three weeks after kurts death. so i went to SPFC (i was ticked and curious) to see what citys SP had been playing in in that span of time and they weren't in AZ. actually they were heading to europe if i recall. SP weren't in arizona until august of that year.



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Dinner ready is Pizza?!

paranoid
01-14-2002, 03:20 PM
and what exactly happened to El Duce? how'd he die? details?

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Dinner ready is Pizza?!

melancholia
01-14-2002, 03:22 PM
el duche was an alchoholic... supposedly, he killed himself too...by jumping in front of a train...

though i don't believe that either...he knew too much.

and i also heard that kurt was having an affair with Holes old bass player (i forget her name)... but then she died of an overdose in her bathtub...

hmmm...

jenny4ever
01-14-2002, 03:59 PM
heh. i wonder what would happen if someone made a post about this on the hole board and Courtney saw it. . .

melancholia
01-14-2002, 04:01 PM
she'd send someone after you... *shudder*

actually, to be honest, with the whole Billy vs. Courtney during Celebrity Skin thing, I thought he'd be the next to go... she's fucked up like that.

Red Wine Cage
01-14-2002, 04:26 PM
Dude,okay,one thing I don't get:

When was this 'suicide'/retirement letter written?

Did he just decide one day to take heroin and write out a bunch of drivel about quitting?

Did someone come over as he was writing the letter and give him lots of heroin?

Maybe I'm not being clear with my ?'s...

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"You're living in the past,man!You're hung up on some clown from the sixties,MAN!!"

FALL FROM GRACE:DAVID'S SMASHING PUMPKINS BOOTLIST (http://pumpkins.iwarp.com)

PhantomFM
01-14-2002, 05:46 PM
Courtney was obviously taken by sid and nancy as the whole thing seems like a glorified kurt and courtney (the ppl, not the movie). also you can tell courtney thought she would make a better nancy than the person who played nancy- and she probably would've, but there's something about her being gross looking that would've been lost if courtney had of played it. Even if you think courtney is ugly, you'll agree that she's 1,000 times hotter than nancy in the movie.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by teebo11:

they do interviews with her X boyfriends who all claim she's crazy, they do mutiple interviews with her dad who also claims she's crazy... he also says that she was having an affair with billy corgan while cobain was in rehab.

the documentary also has an interview with the last babysitter to work for the cobain family... she left the job about a week or so before he died because she couldn't take the houshold fighting over the will and other things like that.

also, the documentary contains interviews with journalists assulted by courtney.

lots of proof that if anything else, courtney is crazy</font>

and that there are lots of people that hate her. I also think they were the type of ppl that would say anything to get on camera. No one he interviewed had any credibility, most were drug addicts, and courtney's dad was so uncredible the film maker wonders outloud whether anything he says is true.

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PhantomFM (http://phantomfm.8m.com)

i-hum-rocket
01-14-2002, 08:53 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"> HI ClinT!!!!!!!! </font>

huh? my name isn't Clint....

as for Kurt's retirement letter: he was tired of playing verse-chorus-verse stuff, and he was going to leave the grungr scene and start an experimental group. he wrote a goodbye letter because he felt that most of his old fans wouldn't listen to what he wanted to start doing.

jenny4ever
01-14-2002, 09:38 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by PhantomFM:
Courtney was obviously taken by sid and nancy as the whole thing seems like a glorified kurt and courtney (the ppl, not the movie). also you can tell courtney thought she would make a better nancy than the person who played nancy- and she probably would've, but there's something about her being gross looking that would've been lost if courtney had of played it. Even if you think courtney is ugly, you'll agree that she's 1,000 times hotter than nancy in the movie.

and that there are lots of people that hate her. I also think they were the type of ppl that would say anything to get on camera. No one he interviewed had any credibility, most were drug addicts, and courtney's dad was so uncredible the film maker wonders outloud whether anything he says is true.

</font>

they all werent drug addicts-there were journalists with SAVED messages that Courtney had left on their answering machines-threatening to either kill them or sue them for saying stuff about her she didnt like. There was even a former babysitter who was talking about how she was scared of Courtney.

TRANSCRIPT OF BROOMFIELDS INTERVIEW WITH THE NANNY.

Friend (of the nanny): "She's really scared. She's always been afraid to talk about this."

Broomfield: "How long was she the nanny?"

Friend: "Um, 4 or 5 months. They go through nannies like people go through cleaners."

Broomfield: "Really ?"

Friend: "Yes."

Broomfield: "And she's really frightened?"

Friend: "Yes"

Broomfield: "What is she frightened of ?"

Friend: "Courtney."

Broomfield now talks about the nanny: "She had become very depressed and withdrawn following her time at the house (Kurts house) just before Kurt died. I asked her what was so strange in those last weeks."

Nanny: "There was just way too much will talk. A few different times. Major will talk. Just talking about his will and..."

Broomfield: "What kind of points?"

Nanny: "Courtney talking about his will and... I mean what a thing to talk about.” (Nervous laugh.)

Broomfield: "And was this just sort of prior to his...."

Nanny: "Yeah, I mean the month that I was up there was like, I came home for a what? A week? and then he died. I had quit for like, a week."

Broomfield: "Why did you quit?"

Nanny: "Because I couldn't stand it up there.”(nervous laugh.)

Broomfield: "And what did you think of Kurt himself?"

Nanny: "Ummm..."

Broomfield: "I heard he was a very caring father."

Nanny (nodding in agreement): "Yes, more caring than he was let to be.”(nervous laugh.)

Friend: "What do you mean?"

Nanny: "She just totally controlled him... every second that she could."

Broomfield: "What do you think he wanted?"

Nanny: "To get away from Courtney. And I think he just didn't have a way because..... (trails off).


Honestly, i find most of those druggies more credible than courtney anyways given her record-she will do or say ANYTHING to get what she wants and anything to make herself look good(shes proven that with releasing false info to the press, etc.) She fucking did heroin when she was pregnant-now, im skeptical to trust anyone who's addicted to heroin but anyone who does it while pregnant is a severely fucked up person.

Etienne
01-14-2002, 10:01 PM
the rumor is kurt was gonna leave courtney for rosemary caroll.

Courtney offered el duce 50,000 to murder kurt in a music store in seattle, and there are several witness to this event.

Dylan and kurt had been sleeping at a drug dealers house a few days before he died. They where apparently hiding from someone.

theres millions of more weird facts like that floating around, if you look at the actual suicide note any moron can tell it was penned by 2 diffrent people.

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Ugly can be beautiful, but pretty, never ~The Countess