You know, it's never too early to talk about this. It's clear from the residencies that new songs are being written already and that we don't want the band to go away. I don't think they will, but I will be sad if they take the U2 route and release a similar album.

I said this in another thread, but as much as I like Zeitgeist I wish they would have been a bit more adventurous and pushed it more instrumentally. This is my wish for the next record. While this one is hard hitting, I hope there is more guitar craziness on the next record. I like when they let the shit fly and just jam. I'd love to hear stuff like Gossamer.

That aside, I'd like some acoustic stuff. I've maintained that Corgan has a good stripped down acoustic record in his future, further more I think it would be really good.

thoughts and/or complaints about how I'm asking questions about the next record too early?

needs to be less poppy and more relaxing and hearty.

needs to be thoughtful like adore and creative like mcis. should probably rock like sd too. yea not gonna happen.

definitely think it needs to be more diverse sounding. the only song that sounds noticeably different than the others is pomp and circumstance. needs more "fun" songs too. like someone (i believe it was gossamer) said in another thread, the band seems to be lacking some of the whimsy that it used to have.

definitely think it needs to be more diverse sounding. the only song that sounds noticeably different than the others is pomp and circumstance. needs more "fun" songs too. like someone (i believe it was gossamer) said in another thread, the band seems to be lacking some of the whimsy that it used to have.

I think some of that "whimsy" is still there in the live performances though with stuff like "Gossamer".....and for some reason I got that same feeling on "Stellar" too.

needs to be less poppy and more relaxing and hearty.
perfect.

The residency songs need more time to evolve and develop their own characteristics but they show great potential. I don't know how many of these songs will actually be recording but if Billy and the gang keep on wrighting at this rate we'll defenitly have lots of good b-sides.

I think some of that "whimsy" is still there in the live performances though with stuff like "Gossamer".....and for some reason I got that same feeling on "Stellar" too.

you're probably right. i haven't really been listening to any recordings of the recent shows.

and it was boseph who made the comment about the band being more whimsical in the past and not so much anymore (just to give credit where it's due).

billy should just record the stuff hes writing on tour and release an album to bridge the gap to the next official release.

the pumpkins have lost their mischief.

Quit with over-producing songs to death. Strip things down a bit more.

needs to be less poppy and more relaxing and hearty.
:noway:

"Relaxing" is not an adjective that I want attached any Smashing Pumpkins album. It seems to me that what one person finds "relaxing," I'm probably going to find "boring."

That said, I wouldn't be too broken up if Billy dialed things down a little and mixed things up on the next record. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to completely give up the return to rocking that Zeitgeist represents just yet, but a couple of slower, acoustic-y numbers thrown into the mix for variety's sake wouldn't hurt my feelings.

i want something new...

lose the pop and the stupid dress and the lyrics... you know?

i dont want an sd or mcis repeat, i want something new, i think he has it in him...

Make good songs.

it needs to be incredibly sad

it needs to be incredibly sad

but he has jesus now...

i fear the only thing that he could possibly sad about will be increddibly religious or stupid... he can't really handle the heat of these emo bands out there, i dont think he's got it in him to top their "depression"...

unless like james dies or something... :erm:

emo isnt sad its whiny, all BC has to do to be sad is remember his childhood while writing a tune

ah, well, you got me there man...

Another Mellon Collie type variation wise just not as long. maybe 15 songs, 12 songs isnt long enough for an SP album

Another Mellon Collie type variation wise just not as long. maybe 15 songs, 12 songs isnt long enough for an SP album
agreed

One thing that needs to change in the next album is the influences that are derived for the music. I like Zeitgeist, it has quite a few really good songs, but most of the tracks lack depth because most of this album is just influenced by current events and the culture of these times. The songs of the album reflect things we hear and see all the time today such as the "doom & gloom" of the future (Doomsday Clock & United States) and our society's obsession with celebrity (Starz). These songs, along with all the others, sound good, but they don't strike you in the same way, emotionally, as everything SP had done before did. One thing we need to realize is that Billy isn't goin' to go back deep into his soul and go back to creating deeply emotional and personal songs like he did before because he's 40 now.

Bottom line, for me, is that I just expect this next album (I'm thinkin' a late '09 release) to be better than Zeitgeist; Zeitgeist met my expectations, and I was pleased with it, but just like many others here, my expectations for it were pretty low.

i hope that there actually is a next album

It should:

1) Be more careless. I think this is the first time in a Pumpkins record where Billy has tried to please his audience on purpose.
2) Be less Zwanish. I mean less "Bring the light" and "(Come On) Let's go!" type of songs.
3) ******* some piano.
4) Recapture AMBITION, aim for a truly timeless record.
5) Take all the necessary time to be made. Don't rush it, Billy. If it takes 5 years, I'll wait.

I know requisite (1) invalidates the rest, but...

The Smashing Pumpkins Unplugged

I'm more into them going back into weirdo prog-rock than trying to sound like their roots.

I wish that on the next album, Corgan find the balance between his old style and his new style (something i think was reached in the Chicago songs) and makes togtether with Jimmy the best rock album I have ever heard.

I think it will be "the greatest fucking rock album anyone's ever heard."

i'm excited about this next release.

i agree with a one-disc mellon collie style. more sincere, less self-concious. i think they will be relatively quick with a new album, and i do actually think it will be very good.

the way i see it, they need to get back to 2 essentials.

#1 remember pisces iscariot? it has a very grainy, demo-ish feel, recording in bedrooms and whatnot. it is great. how Judas O sound compared to it? wayyyy over produced.

#2 billy needs to follow tangets. oft-repeated lines in a song are not meant to be the title! i am sure the newest stuff has alot of work to go, but stinkers like come on lets go make me not-so-sure we are dealing with the same guy.

After heading Billy's newest comments from recent shows I'm just gratefull if there will be a next release.

Arcane night music

I would like a sloppy album of hippie acid jams with extreme fuzziness from outer space with super deranged lyrics

i want something new...

lose the pop and the stupid dress and the lyrics... you know?

i dont want an sd or mcis repeat, i want something new, i think he has it in him...


TheFutureEmbrace was something new. People loved it.

as much as I would like them to try something radically new, I am sure that they would take a direction for which people would hate them even more than now. People would call it faggy or fake or both.

Me, I always wanted to hear an album in the vein of the TEITBITE material. Of the Zeitgeist stuff, "For God and Country" comes closest, and it is indeed one of my favorite songs of this era.

I would also like to hear lo-fi Pumpkins. I guess this will never happen.

definitely think it needs to be more diverse sounding. the only song that sounds noticeably different than the others is pomp and circumstance.

Yeah, I was just thinking about how much 7 Shades of Black sounds like Neverlost!



:erm:

No more baritone guitars. Tune everything to Eb with the occasional Db song thrown in for good measure. Bust out the Fender Blender, the Blue Box, the Big Muff Pi, and the old strats with the Lace Sensor pickups. Dime the volume on your amp and make your ears bleed with the volume. When Billy goes in to record his Vocals, turn his vox track so low in his headphones that he has to scream just to hear himself.....After everything is recorded, mixed and mastered, resist the urges to take pictures of Paris Hilton for the booklet.


That's what I want for the next album.

we need an album full of songs like glynis

- Jeff/Lisa/Ginger to be present and perform their own parts
- Jeff contributing guitar arrangements
- Billy singing like he actually means it
- Riff-based songs in the vein of "In The Arms Of Sleep" and "Marquis In Spades" or "Tribute to Johnny" instead of the Bodies-que stuff (tremolo picking?)
- Bill & Jeff solo duels

anything that arouses the same feelings i get when i listen to MCIS

probably been said many times in this thread already (too lazy to check)... but the new album needs to have James Iha involved. You don't see Sting tour as the Police without Andy and Steward... you don't see Paul and Ringo saying "hey, we have a singer + drummer, we can do a Beatles reunion!".

Yes, i know James didn't write many songs... and i've already heard the stories about how he didn't even record any guitar parts for Siamese Dream. But the fact is that its not the Smashing Pumpkins without the guy. If someone gets up and leaves while a band is still together, that's one thing. but he was there until the day they broke up, and most likely all Billy had to do was swallow some pride and call him. that's it. but of course he didn't.

that there isn't a second.

you don't see Paul and Ringo saying "hey, we have a singer + drummer, we can do a Beatles reunion!".

If it was John and Paul... it'd be a different matter, and closer to SP2's situation.

a bit more experimental and diverse, less safe, a wider range of emotions

With all the new songs that have been written, I have a feeling the next album will be much stronger, I already like several of the 'new' songs more than I do any of the zeitgeist songs, so It gives me hope for the future.

i want d'arcy and james on the album

it needs to be incredibly sad

i second that

One thing that needs to change in the next album is the influences that are derived for the music. I like Zeitgeist, it has quite a few really good songs, but most of the tracks lack depth because most of this album is just influenced by current events and the culture of these times. The songs of the album reflect things we hear and see all the time today such as the "doom & gloom" of the future (Doomsday Clock & United States) and our society's obsession with celebrity (Starz). These songs, along with all the others, sound good, but they don't strike you in the same way, emotionally, as everything SP had done before did. One thing we need to realize is that Billy isn't goin' to go back deep into his soul and go back to creating deeply emotional and personal songs like he did before because he's 40 now.


Ditto. He needs to be introspective again. I don't know if we'll get that since in the Machina era he said something along the lines of his youthful angst being dead, that he wouldn't write from that perspective again. I just think that his songs should be more heartfelt than they are on Zeitgeist.
Also, NO MORE SYNTHS! "For God and Country" could've been so much better without that damn repeating synth. He should definitely experiment, but not with synths.

yeah. for god and country is the only song on the album i skip over.

He's 40 now, so what? Is playing nu-metal more mature?
He who can write songs like Doomsday Clock shall not be afraid of writing angsty-emo songs.

I'd like to maybe hear something based on the sound of songs like Cherry and Set the Ray to Jerry; they never really did a full album like that. Would be awesome.

that they are writing songs during the residencies is suggestive of a gap between albums more like adore - machina, so ~ 20 months. an album in early '09 is a possibility.

The Who only has its two main members cause the other two are dead and noones complaining about that...

and I'm not saying I having a problem with that I'm saying people should give Billy a break

I think the smashing pumpkins should do an album with rave, thrash metal, ambient, classical, jazz, be-bop, beat-box, hip-hop, acapella (oophh), emo, children's playtime tunes, etc... all mixed into one, that would be hella varied

I like for god and country but not sure if I'd like a whole album sounding like that. I do hope and believe the next album will be more of what I have been waiting for. as in, more experimental, diverse, clean yet layered and honest. I need Billy to write from his heart and quit making these themed albums.

Yeah, I was just thinking about how much 7 Shades of Black sounds like Neverlost!



:erm:

ok so neverlost has some xylophones and synths but it still doesn't sound as noticeably different from the other songs on the album in terms of feel. sure, it's a bit more mellow but definitely not as out there as pomp.

way to miss the point completely, asshat.

i'm hoping that he tours behind it without bitching about how the music industry sucks, sales suck blah blah blah.

i'm hoping he supports his next effort with a little more confidence.

I think the biggest problem is that Billy really thinks he is giving the people what they want. He thinks everyone wants "ROCK" and his definition of rock loses most of what made MCIS/adore awesome.

His "Rock" is 7 shades of black, DDC, and so on with Zeit.

I feel the closest he gets to Classic pumpkins is Pomp and Circumstance. Not because it sounds like other pumpkins but because it seems to take a step in a different direction. Granted the song is not great but I do like it.

With what I just said, I think it is obvious that the purpose of the residency's is for billy to settle in and really get ahold of the "Pumpkins" mind set again. He probably wasn't playing old sp tunes before he started Zeitgeist, I think that is something very important to think about when judging Zeitgeist.

double album

After heading Billy's newest comments from recent shows I'm just gratefull if there will be a next release.

What are you referencing?

ok so neverlost has some xylophones and synths but it still doesn't sound as noticeably different from the other songs on the album in terms of feel. sure, it's a bit more mellow but definitely not as out there as pomp.

way to miss the point completely, asshat.

No, I get your point. I just disagree with it, "asshat." Some songs on the album are similar, but some sound nothing alike. There is a huge difference between 7 Shades of Black, Bleeding the Orchid, Neverlost, God & Country, Bring the Light, and Pomp & Circumstances (that's 6 of the 12 main songs).

The bonus tracks also differ a lot from the main album (though there are some similarites between DFA and Bring the Light in terms of attitude and feel).

ok so neverlost has some xylophones and synths but it still doesn't sound as noticeably different from the other songs on the album in terms of feel.

That's because it's an album, not a random collection of songs. There is obviously a thematic/stylistic element that brings these songs together as the LP known as Zeitgeist, despite the fact that some of them are very different from one another. I'd say that "feel" is present in P + C as well.

Adore, Machina, and indeed every Pumpkins album suffers this same "flaw" relative to a similar "feel" running throughout the album. The only "LP" that doesn't really fall to this criticism is Pisces Iscariot because, as we know, it's a collection of B-Sides and demos, not a cohesive artistic statement.

What you seem to be asking for is an album without cohesion. Otherwise, even you have to recognize that despite the similar "feel," as you call it, of Neverlost, 7 Shades, and God and Country (for example), they are very different songs in a lot of different ways.

What are you referencing?


Something along the likes of 'The magic is all gone'

No, I get your point. I just disagree with it, "asshat." Some songs on the album are similar, but some sound nothing alike. There is a huge difference between 7 Shades of Black, Bleeding the Orchid, Neverlost, God & Country, Bring the Light, and Pomp & Circumstances (that's 6 of the 12 main songs).

The bonus tracks also differ a lot from the main album (though there are some similarites between DFA and Bring the Light in terms of attitude and feel).



That's because it's an album, not a random collection of songs. There is obviously a thematic/stylistic element that brings these songs together as the LP known as Zeitgeist, despite the fact that some of them are very different from one another. I'd say that "feel" is present in P + C as well.

Adore, Machina, and indeed every Pumpkins album suffers this same "flaw" relative to a similar "feel" running throughout the album. The only "LP" that doesn't really fall to this criticism is Pisces Iscariot because, as we know, it's a collection of B-Sides and demos, not a cohesive artistic statement.

What you seem to be asking for is an album without cohesion. Otherwise, even you have to recognize that despite the similar "feel," as you call it, of Neverlost, 7 Shades, and God and Country (for example), they are very different songs in a lot of different ways.
I have to disagree.

Of all the SP albums.

This Zeitgeist feels the most just like a collection of songs and NOT an album.

I have to disagree.

Of all the SP albums.

This Zeitgeist feels the most just like a collection of songs and NOT an album.I was responding to Eiki's accusation that the songs are too "similar" because they have the same "feel." I see what he means. There is something to the mixing and presentation that makes the album have a thematic "sound," if you will. I'm sure the mixing (bad as some think it is) was an attempt to bring cohesion to an album which is, admittedly, less conceptual then their previous efforts.

I don't disagree that Zeitgeist has less cohesion then it's counterparts (Gish-Machina II), with (of course) the exception of Pisces Iscariot, which is not really an album.

My point is that the songs are different (agreeing, I would think, with you), and that the similar "feel" that Eiki complained about (something, perhaps, with which you disagree) is the result of BC/JC mixing the LP in order to get what you might call a "Zeitgeist sound" (whether or not you love or hate that sound).

Billy isn't allowed to sing his own back up vocals. (somebody probably said that already though! :D )

I was responding to Eiki's accusation that the songs are too "similar" because they have the same "feel." I see what he means. There is something to the mixing and presentation that makes the album have a thematic "sound," if you will. I'm sure the mixing (bad as some think it is) was an attempt to bring cohesion to an album which is, admittedly, less conceptual then their previous efforts.

I don't disagree that Zeitgeist has less cohesion then it's counterparts (Gish-Machina II), with (of course) the exception of Pisces Iscariot, which is not really an album.

My point is that the songs are different (agreeing, I would think, with you), and that the similar "feel" that Eiki complained about (something, perhaps, with which you disagree) is the result of BC/JC mixing the LP in order to get what you might call a "Zeitgeist sound" (whether or not you love or hate that sound).


hmm, i think i didn't really explain my thoughts on the album when i said the songs all share too much of a similar "feel." you're right, it's an album so of course they're going to want it to have some sort of cohesiveness in the sound and feel of the songs so it's not just a random collection.

i still just feel that most of the songs sound too "samey." i wish the band would just change things up a little bit more. throw on an acoustic only song on there or something. i just don't want all these uber-produced songs choking up the album. i think stripping down some of the songs would help let the songs and the album breathe a bit more and give it more diversity.

Less pop, more alternative rock and more emotions.

Less pop, more alternative rock and more emotions.
Did you get Viewphoria yet?!!

Did you get Viewphoria yet?!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

i still just feel that most of the songs sound too "samey." i wish the band would just change things up a little bit more. throw on an acoustic only song on there or something. i just don't want all these uber-produced songs choking up the album. i think stripping down some of the songs would help let the songs and the album breathe a bit more and give it more diversity.I agree. Zeitgeist would have been helped a lot if the title track was part of the regular track list. There is some degree to which Zeitgeist (while I feel it had some variety) is not as varied as Siamese Dream or (of course) Mellon Collie. One thing I did like about Zeitgeist is it wasn't all simply soft/LOUD/soft or LOUD/soft/LOUD, which was a formula SP used repeatedly in their early career. The song that falls most to this criticism is Starz (also maybe Bring the Light).

Honestly, if you ever make an SP bedtime mix, make sure you skip around in the song to make sure you're not suddenly woken up in the middle of the night by a track you thought was mellow but is actually soft/LOUD-AS-FUCK (i.e. a lot of Siamese Dream).

triple album, 42 songs.

Did you get Viewphoria yet?!!What you want is what you get and that's NOTHIN'!
What you want is what you get and that's NOTHIN'!
What you want is what you want is what you what and that's... NOTHIN'!
What you want is what you get and that's NOTHIN'!
(etc.)

I would like a sloppy album of hippie acid jams with extreme fuzziness from outer space with super deranged lyrics
http://www.miqel.com/images_1/random_image/sun-ra-saturn-lp-covers/space-place-sun-ta-egypt.jpg

I think Ginger, Jeff, and Lisa need to be in-studio and contributing creatively. I think Billy could use some checks and balances, and Jimmy just won't give that when working with Billy alone.

I'd like to see more adventurous, epic songs like United States.

Some quieter songs would be good. You could put "If only in a dream" and "Mama" on an album, and I think it would work well. Especially if the songs have an acoustic lead guitar on it.

I think the album would do well with some quiet songs next to loud right back to quiet. Don't really get that vibe from the Zeit.

Capture some of the fun the band seemed to be having in Asheville.

I would love the next album to be "Foo Fighters- In your Honour" style, with One CD electric and CD acoustic.

Did you get Viewphoria yet?!!

I´ll buy it when you stop bitching XD

id like the new album to have nothing political in it- im just not interested.. thats what the news is for...

I would love the next album to be "Foo Fighters- In your Honour" style, with One CD electric and CD acoustic.

Wasn't it spelled "honor" since the band is American?

Wasn't it spelled "honor" since the band is American?

I think it was spelled differently depending on the country, i could make my second 'exactlythesame' joke this month, but im gonna steer clear.

just please be better

I would love the next album to be "Foo Fighters- In your Honour" style, with One CD electric and CD acoustic.

Best idea I've heard yet.

Less heavy sameness. Less poppiness, Zeitgeist is all about extremes, either metal or pop with little in between. Less of a polished/over-tinkered with sound. Less Billy's increasingly irritating layered voice.

More diversity in style. More mellow songs. More psychodelia. More space rock. More simple acoustic songs (like Zeitgeist the song, and like For God and Country should have been).

I hope it's recorded by The Arcade Fire.

I hope it's recorded by The Arcade Fire.

Will they play a week on Conan to promote it?

more emotion, the new members having a part in it, and an overall more diverse sound

(heh, first post :-P)

Siamese Dream 2.

Cliff Huxtable - I like jello O

I hope it will be a departure in the vein of Adore, only instead of being electronica-tinged, bring out the folk. A stripped down album full of songs like "Peace and Love", "Promise Me", and "Question Mark", please.

This reminds me of BC's strategy for Zwan. As I recall, Jimmy once said they planned on first releasing a more mainstream, poppy record, and then follow it with something more experimental and epic -- i.e. first put out MSOTS, and the second album would feature more songs like "Jesus, I / Mary Star of the Sea." The theory was that the first would get the public's interest, and the second would let them push the boundaries a bit. Meanwhile, there was the quiet acoustic Djali project that wasn't quite an album, but more of an off-the-cuff DVD project. What did BC say about it...? Something about how you can see the process of writing and recording and the mistakes made. Of course, the second album and the DVD never quite happened.

Well, what have we got in the present? One of SP's most mainstream and accessible records to date, Zeitgeist. Meanwhile, there are a lot of quiet acoustic songs from the residencies which happen to be recorded for an upcoming DVD project. You can see the writing process and watch how the the songs develop. At the same time, they're breaking out epic songs like "Gossamer" and... what's the new one? "Superchrist," I think? Even "Stellar," although only peripherally on the album.

I predict a DVD from the residencies featuring many of the new songs, followed by a more ambitious, raucous and epic album.

if there is a llamaI think Billy could use some checks and balances

This is undeniably one of the fatal flaws of late Pumpkins albums.

I would love for Billy to put out a progressive-rock record. I mean I've always thought of the Smashing Pumpkins as one of those rock bands that hinted at the prog from time to time, why not just go completely for it (and no I don't mean like Machina) for the next record?

I think that the epics on each album are always some of the best things Billy does, so why not make an entire album of them?

The album could be like 7-8 songs long, with 5 epics (around 7-10 minutes each) plus 2-3 semi radio-friendly songs, sandwiched in between.

I think it could be amazing.

Oh and Gossamer could be on the album.

I dont think Billy could write that many consistently good songs that would hold interest. Right now he can come up with a couple good songs an album, but he is past a time when he could create a masterpiece. Of course though, a Pumpkins Lateralus would be kickass

I think he will either go the experimental progressive rock route or write a stripped down acoustic album.

There's really not that much left to do for him is there?


I think it would be a shame though for Gossamer to go to waste.
It's either going to be on the next album or were probably never going to get a proper studio version of it.

I hope it's recorded by The Arcade Fire.

no.

I hope it's recorded by The Arcade Fire.
I was watching that episode of SNL and my boyfriend was sound asleep. They came on and he wakes up, sits up and goes "this shit sucks" lays back down, and falls right back asleep.

Your bf has shit taste.

Your bf has shit taste.
i honestly think he had no idea what was going on.
but i don't think he'd like them anyway.
i don't really listen to them myself. not that i despise them (i have hate for many other bands), just don't pay much attention i guess.

The more I hear these new residency songs, the more I wish SP would put out an almost folk-type album, but of course with some Pumpkins twist. Don't know what that could be, maybe reggae folk rap or something. harharhar

But seriously. Something folk-y would be cool. Billy and a harmonica = funny, but also quite cool.

Nah, I think you were on to something with that reggae folk rap idea.

I hope Billy doesn't read this... I think I'm going to take my own advice and make a reggae folk rap album.

But then... he doesn't read this BS.

we'll see sp touring with the 311/matisyahu thread next year...

they're touring with me next year.

are you in a band? or just a traveling freakshow/circus? ;)

we'll see sp touring with the 311/matisyahu thread next year...
...and i'm actually going to see this show tomorrrow.

are you in a band? or just a traveling freakshow/circus?

Both... I fit right in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/TORingBearer/billylasers2.jpg

:erm:

I think it would be a shame though for Gossamer to go to waste.
It's either going to be on the next album or were probably never going to get a proper studio version of it.

the only chance it will make it onto record is a b-sides PI / Judas O kind of deal, or maybe a studio demo. history is against it making it to an original recording (see strtj, lmgtwty etc).

he needs to put on more slower songs. And not like neverlost or the song zeitgeist. More emotional like galapagos or to shiela

I'd say the song zeitgeist is pretty emotional.

Triple Album

triple album would be killer. no joke, haha. Billy says he writes like 238974923874 songs anyway, might as well record them all and release 'em.

i'm really enjoying the new songs, but especially no surrender, mama and leaving lament. i know this is way beyond cliché to say, but those songs make me think that i finally have my pumpkins back. so my answer would be; more acoustic songs - hell, i'd like more experiments with the "quiet" stuff that we usually expect to hear against the "loud" of sp.

oh, and whatever effect used for the btl solo needs to make some more appearances.

I just hope on the next album billy finally brings the fuck'n light.

Just make a song I can connect to. Some of the songs off Zeti are cool but I don't connect with them like his past work.

How To Disappear Completely the lyrics are simple and don't try to be complex and the music well its awsome. It connects with me more than all of Zeitgeist.

Basically, I think the biggest thing missing from Zeitgeist is variety. Just about every song on the album is full-tilt rock. What I think most SP fans loved about their music, was that you were getting a varied record. Some heavy songs, some quiet acoustic songs, a few more experimental songs, etc. He's proved he can write a good song in just about any genre. But Zeitgeist focuses only on rockin' hard pretty much... and honestly it doesn't do the greatest job at it. Here's hoping that this is just the bait to lure in new fans before he switches it up for the next album.

And the fucking production. Stop this "loud at any volume" bullshit. Dynamics are your friend. Sure it makes it sound 'in your face' or whatever on some shitty little $50 dollar wal-mart mini-system, but when you have a nice component based stereo, you listen to this overproduced garbage and wonder why the hell you even have a nice stereo when everyones got a hard-on for compression.

</rant>

Basically, I think the biggest thing missing from Zeitgeist is variety. Just about every song on the album is full-tilt rock. What I think most SP fans loved about their music, was that you were getting a varied record. Some heavy songs, some quiet acoustic songs, a few more experimental songs, etc. He's proved he can write a good song in just about any genre. But Zeitgeist focuses only on rockin' hard pretty much... and honestly it doesn't do the greatest job at it. Here's hoping that this is just the bait to lure in new fans before he switches it up for the next album.

And the fucking production. Stop this "loud at any volume" bullshit. Dynamics are your friend. Sure it makes it sound 'in your face' or whatever on some shitty little $50 dollar wal-mart mini-system, but when you have a nice component based stereo, you listen to this overproduced garbage and wonder why the hell you even have a nice stereo when everyones got a hard-on for compression.

</rant>


Great point...I hate it how For God and Country, Neverlost and Pomp and Circumstance are just hard rockers......

Denying that Zeitgeist is basically heavy is pretty ignorant. And even the not-heavy songs that you mentioned are loud.

Mostly, I think I'd like them to get Flood back. Butch Vig would be fine, too.

I hope it is not self produced.

I hope it has more variety.

I hope it is wet rather than dry.

I hope it has Mellotrons.

I hope Billy takes some acid.

I hope it is sad.

I hope it has no theme.

I hope it has fuzz.

I hope it is a group effort.

I hope it is more proggy.

Great point...I hate it how For God and Country, Neverlost and Pomp and Circumstance are just hard rockers......

I didn't say they were. I said most of the album is hard rock tracks. What I'm hoping for in a new album is stuff more along the lines of previous softer tracks, acoustic guitars and whatnot.

The buildups to the solos in Siamese Dream made them part of the song and not feel like they were just thrown in there. By "buildups" I'm refering to the guitar parts that come before solos (see Cherub Rock, Quiet). It just gave them a sense of belonging in the song and not jsut being filler... Try that with the next album.

I'd like to have a SMASHING PUMPKINS album...that means INCLUDING contribution from Ginger and Jeff....on SOME level.....I think there's actually a chance the next record could return the band to glory. Zeitgeist is something I view as a means to get back on the map.

-dynamics. within songs & from song to song. i'll settle for machina-level. stop avoiding soft/loud. every time they did it it was great.
-spread it out. sprawl. go nuts.
-don't ink lewd 7 songs in the same key unless it's a 30 song album.
-stop segregating. put both zwans on there. or (omg) make an album that's actually like mcis/sd/pi/gish/tafh, also known as the smashing pumpkins [and i sure as fuck don't mean re-writing songs. they didn't re-write songs to make those albums. however, they DID to make zg and they paled in comparison of course]. we already have adore, zwan, tfe, zg [and to a lesser extent machina] for the 'continuity' (read: boredom) thing. what else did those records have in common? oh yeah, they weren't extremely popular. things that make you go 'hmmmm'.
-vocals that fit the song they're in. no kickassin rock w/o kickassin vocals, or leave the rock for someone who does.
-drop the harmonies
-stop saying 'soul'
-put girl with the cruel face on it

http://www.garbage.suite.dk/butchvig.jpg

One thing that needs to change in the next album is the influences that are derived for the music. I like Zeitgeist, it has quite a few really good songs, but most of the tracks lack depth because most of this album is just influenced by current events and the culture of these times. The songs of the album reflect things we hear and see all the time today such as the "doom & gloom" of the future (Doomsday Clock & United States) and our society's obsession with celebrity (Starz). These songs, along with all the others, sound good, but they don't strike you in the same way, emotionally, as everything SP had done before did. One thing we need to realize is that Billy isn't goin' to go back deep into his soul and go back to creating deeply emotional and personal songs like he did before because he's 40 now.

Bottom line, for me, is that I just expect this next album (I'm thinkin' a late '09 release) to be better than Zeitgeist; Zeitgeist met my expectations, and I was pleased with it, but just like many others here, my expectations for it were pretty low.




I don't understand this mentality that "Billy can't write emotional songs because he is in his 40's. " Believe it or not, older people have feelings too. :cry:

That being said, i understand what you are touching on. That he cannot compete with younger, hungrier song writers who are out to prove themselves and haven't told "their story" yet. This part I will agree upon because even Billy said that after a band's third record, the music starts repeating itself in some form or another.

I think if Billy allows Ginger and Jeff to get involved (at least a little) with the writing process and be involved in the studio, they could put out some interesting records. If he continues to dominate this process himself and write everything, i think it is going to get stale. Not that I think Billy can't do it anymore but because I lots of good ideas and influences can come from a group working together. It will be interesting to see which route they choose from here.

or maybe Ginger and Jeff could get involved with eachother and then break up