View Full Version : "The Pumpkins are the gratest band of the 90's" Help me prove this...


Gooch
04-13-2002, 06:24 PM
I have to write a Persuasive speech based on the Smashing Pumpkins. I figured i'd try to pursuade the class that they are the greatest band of the 1990's. I figured i could talk about how their music is so diverse (can write xyu and MCIS on one album), appeals to every emotion, sets trends in music and style, are pioneers in the rock world (machina II), have a dedicated fanbase, ambitious, charitable (98 charity shows), and artistically creative (gatmoc). So, can you give me some good arguemenst as to why they are the greatest band? Why they are so talented? Why they deserve respect? Any ideas, personal theories, articles, anyting could help me out. Just so I can get some ideas to convince my college public speaking class. When I told my teacher the topic, he made a face and was like, "eww, no they're not". So I've got to prove my point very good. I'm like an ambassador to my class, here, so I gotta give some good, convincing reasons as to the Pumpkin's merit. Thanks so much for any help you can provide. I'd ask over at the oboard, but then I'd get a bunch of: "becAwZ thAr c0ol and cuz BolLy'z mY B0yfriendh!!!1!! gigglesnort" reasons http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif Good, concrete persuasuions here. Thanks! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Gooch (edited 04-13-2002).]

ckeegan
04-13-2002, 06:31 PM
ok, well, you could say that Gish and Nivana's "Nevermind" came out on the same day (or days apart, can't remember which one it is). Anyway, you could make the case that if Nirvana hadn't been the ones to "make it through" (i.e. be the first 'alternative' band to hit the proverbial mainstream), it would have been the Pumpkins. Wouldn't that be strange, if all the credit (which is a load of bullshit if you ask me...alternative was nothing w/o bands like the Pixies) went to the Pumpkins for ushering in the 'Alternative revolution?' Food for thought.

By the way, you should be writing about something that really matters like alternative energy or Palestinian statehood.

Gooch
04-13-2002, 06:34 PM
good points.

And palestinian statehood was already chosen by someone else in the class. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/mad.gif

Jaggie
04-13-2002, 06:37 PM
The tone Billy played with on SD is unparalleled IMO. Talk about how many copy bands were spawned.

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i wasted (http://www.jaggie.net) all my years, been chasing all my fears

Gooch
04-13-2002, 08:18 PM
good, good... elaborate http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif

Age Of Empathy
04-13-2002, 08:31 PM
i dunno if you could add this, but in the 11/28/00 interview, jim diragodes (sp.?) who was the interviewer, brought up the point that no smashing pumpkins ticket has been over $35 or $40 ..... tsp never charged $60+ per ticket.

the start of the MCIS tour was entirely club shows. despite the fact they could have done huge arenas they did clubs, same with resume the pose

definitely talking about the musical evolution of the pumpkins is essential. even from '88 to '91 there was a massive change in the music. songs like There it goes, spiteface, and my eternity were written in 88 and were kinda dark new wave sorta music, then they went to songs like bury me, siva, and i am one in 91. every album SP has been different then all the others.

they band has also been able to carry on during tough times. (i.e. melvoin dying, jimmy being kicked out, the girl dying at one of their shows, darcy leaving, find a new bassist, etc.) its a lot to take for any band, yet tsp seemed to have enough will to keep on going.

.... oh and most importantly, b0lly r0xzz

monto
04-13-2002, 09:10 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Age Of Empathy:
the start of the MCIS tour was entirely club shows. despite the fact they could have done huge arenas they did clubs, same with resume the pose</font>wouldn't quite go as far as to say arenas (few bands can do arenas these days--McCartney, N'Sync, DMB)...even SP didn't sell out quite a few real arenas during their prime MCIS US touring days.

anyhow back to the topic, to elaborate on your fanbase/community issue, you can quote the numbers of fansites devoted to some 'big' bands vs. SP, p'haps with O-board membership or other numbers from google. also, that the SP bootleg community is/was one of the most devoted and wide spread. aside from DMB (Radiohead and U2's last tour were well chronicled, but the entire decade?), i doubt any band in the timeline you speak of is as developed as our's. you can use the SPFC and bootleg lists, perhaps even with some unique stories about 'hoarding'/etc. (quite a lesson in social politics http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif).

speaking of DMB, in your argument, you ought to discount other 'bands' to make your case stronger (one hit wonders, completely manufactured pop acts, background music *uhem* jam bands http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif, unoriginal copycats a la Bush and Creed)<font color=

[This message has been edited by monto (edited 04-13-2002).]

trine
04-13-2002, 09:45 PM
How can you "prove" an opinion?

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build a man a fire and he is warm for a day... set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life...

lily1only
04-13-2002, 10:16 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by trine:
How can you "prove" an opinion?

</font>

persuasive essay, hence you persuade the reader to your opinion. prove isn't the right word.

Graveflower
04-13-2002, 11:32 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Jaggie:
The tone Billy played with on SD is unparalleled IMO. Talk about how many copy bands were spawned.

</font>

Um. He got that tone from Kevin Shields.

Mirror_Untrue
04-13-2002, 11:39 PM
Talk about the RTP tour, how they met so many of their fans and made themselves more into real people instead of rock stars. As I'm sure someone said, talk about all the problems they encountered and how they kept going.

Digital Grey
04-14-2002, 02:13 AM
The only major 'alternative' act to release a double disc album in the 90s. You may also want to compare sales, and especially sales of the MCIS compared to previous double discs that did poorly. I think mentioning the amount of songs written is a sharp idea. Citing the number of articles written about the band could be good...but then you would have to compare TSP to other bands.

But your fucked any way you look at it, because creed is the best band of the 90s. Next to lifehouse.

/Max

Rens
04-14-2002, 08:31 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Digital Grey:
But your fucked any way you look at it, because creed is the best band of the 90s. Next to lifehouse.
/Max</font>

Don't forget Linkin Park! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

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Rens Lohmann - Trading Page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~alohmann/index.html)

ANDREWS BIG THICK COCK
04-14-2002, 08:57 AM
http://dylan.jamandy.com/pain2.jpg

Digital Grey
04-14-2002, 12:30 PM
Sweet mother of pearl.

TesticleFootSoldier
04-14-2002, 08:17 PM
Isn't MCIS the best selling double album of all time? thought i heard that somewhere

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Phat Ballz

hereisnowhy
04-15-2002, 03:27 PM
The first thing you have to do is define what makes a band "great".

I would say that if a band can still be relevant in many years, the band has achieved a level of greatness. Take the Beatles - just as relevant today as they were 40 years ago.

I would argue that the Pumpkins music will be relevant and meaningful for a much longer period of time than most bands. Yet, importantly, they did not achieve timelessness at the expense of substance. For example, the Backstreet Boys' music will always be "relevant" because it applies to common human experience (guy meets girl). However, there is no real substance or meaning. The Pumpkins' music also appeals to issues of common human concern, yet provide some insight and significance.

my 2c

Mustard
04-15-2002, 08:16 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by TesticleFootSoldier:
Isn't MCIS the best selling double album of all time? thought i heard that somewhere

</font>

Pink Floyd - The Wall

Castro
04-15-2002, 08:43 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mustard:
Pink Floyd - The Wall

</font>

No, actually he was right.



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I don't have time for this Mickey Mouse bullshit...

Graveflower
04-15-2002, 09:30 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Castro:
No, actually he was right.

</font>

No, actually he's wrong.

It's just because of Billboard's idiotic rules.

More people own the Wall, and the White Album, than own Mellon Collie.

peabody
04-15-2002, 09:36 PM
MCIS is the best selling double <u>CD</u> of all time.

TesticleFootSoldier
04-15-2002, 11:54 PM
meh, same shiz

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Phat Ballz

corganballs
04-16-2002, 10:29 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by peabody:
MCIS is the best selling double <u>CD</u> of all time.

</font>

Still wrong, MCIS is he best selling double CD studio album.

Garth Brooks has the highest selling double CD.

corganballs

memories_unwind
04-16-2002, 11:55 AM
Just take a look at eBay
Which band from the so called "alternative" scene sells so many items at high prices...take a look at bands like the chili peppers, radiohead, soundgarden, foo fighters...
Nirvana has a bonus cause Cobain is dead. The Pumpkins prices were already high before they announced the break up. Compared to Nirvana, the Pumpkins have much more items that get high prices. Comparable to the Pumpkins are Pearl Jam in this category. Just take a look at shawns site and how muc it`s worth. The reason for these high prices is just the enthusiasm of the fans. You will get problems if the Pumpkins are compared to U2...take a look at the prices on ebay, unbelievable.

Pumpkins shows in January 2000 in Europe were sold out within 2 minutes (Utrecht), they played in old theaters (Cirque Royal, Brussels 2000, Manchester Apollo, London Dominion Theater) when they were big...

They only cancelled 2 shows as I remember ( I was at one of them, Brussels 2000). They played the Manchester Apollo show which was cancelled later. So many bands cancel the whole tour and even don`t come back. Bands like Weezer, blink 182 or Coldplay cancelled their dates and did not come back for a very long time.

What about the last 2 shows. How big was the reaction of the fans and the press? How many people came from all over the world?!?


Look at the bootleg scene that someone already mentioned here. Take the S+P soundboard sampler. Instead of releasing a live album, Eric made the soundboard sampler and spread it. They never released a live album.

Finally you can`t convince anybody cause you are a fanatic like everybody here. Fans of other bands have many arguments for their band and will never say that you are right.
Neutral persons just don`t care and for them only sales are interesting. Consider Adore and Machina, this is difficult. But I think there are some things that can really prove something like this.
For me Nirvana was never interesting. They don`t have the difference between MCIS and X.Y.U. and that`s the most important feature of the Pumpkins for me.

Smiley
04-16-2002, 12:21 PM
Everybody already said most of what I can think of, so I'd just like to build on those suggestions...

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Age Of Empathy:
i dunno if you could add this, but in the 11/28/00 interview, jim diragodes (sp.?) who was the interviewer, brought up the point that no smashing pumpkins ticket has been over $35 or $40 ..... tsp never charged $60+ per ticket.</font>

This is a good point... the Pumpkins were never greedy. In this interview, Billy confirms that $35 was probably the most they ever charged for a ticket. I mean, that doesn't count festivals like Lollapolooza... but still.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Age Of Empathy:
they band has also been able to carry on during tough times. (i.e. melvoin dying, jimmy being kicked out, the girl dying at one of their shows, darcy leaving, find a new bassist, etc.) its a lot to take for any band, yet tsp seemed to have enough will to keep on going.</font>

I'd like to add on to this... besides the fact that the band kept going, it's worthwhile to point out that they really went out with a bang. They made a conscious effort to have a nice, mutual breakup, once the band had run it's course. Nobody does that.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by monto:
anyhow back to the topic, to elaborate on your fanbase/community issue, you can quote the numbers of fansites devoted to some 'big' bands vs. SP, p'haps with O-board membership or other numbers from google. also, that the SP bootleg community is/was one of the most devoted and wide spread. aside from DMB (Radiohead and U2's last tour were well chronicled, but the entire decade?), i doubt any band in the timeline you speak of is as developed as our's. you can use the SPFC and bootleg lists, perhaps even with some unique stories about 'hoarding'/etc. (quite a lesson in social politics http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/wink.gif).</font>

This is a great point. Although I might leave out the stuff about hoarding. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/tongue.gif Do a search for the Pumpkins on ebay or google, and check out how many results there are. Then try other well-known bands. It's obvious that the Pumpkins have a very strong online community. Check out dmoz.org (the Open Directory, which google uses for it's search engine). The last time I checked, there were about 200 bands that started with the letter 'S'... and SP had more fansites than any one of them (except for Britney...ugh).

Also, check out how much Pumpkins vinyl is worth. I've looked for vinyl and CD's from other bands, and it's always cheaper. SP collectibles are worth more, because there's a higher demand for them. That says something right there about how devoted the fans are.

Go to SP fansites, and check out the web counters. Look at how many people visit these sites... then look up some other band from the nineties... Alice in Chains or whatever... and compare. Also, compare how many people are registered on messageboards (the o-board would be a good example, since it's the official one). I haven't actually done these comparisons myself, but I'm confident that SP would have respectable numbers compared to other bands.

You might also want to mention how crazy the fans are about going to concerts... spending hundreds of dollars on scalped tickets (or in the case of the final show, $1000+), flying in from overseas, waiting in line all day, etc.

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by memories_unwind:
Take the S+P soundboard sampler. Instead of releasing a live album, Eric made the soundboard sampler and spread it. They never released a live album.</font>

This is a good point. If I were doing the essay, I'd definitely mention the S+P sampler, the Gravity demos, the FAEOMM bootleg, and Machina 2. For years, everybody wanted full versions of Pastichio songs. But something like that wouldn't really sell in stores. So what did Billy do? He gave it to us for free, as the Gravity demos.

And how about Rotten Apples / Judas O... two CD's for the price of one! I bought mine at Sam Goody for $15, the day it came out. Not a bad price for two brand new CD's.

I hope some of this stuff helps you with your essay. And good luck! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/smile.gif Let us know how it turns out.

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"love does not always have to be quiet and graceful, it can be boisterous and loud and even rude, to shout above the din to be heard sometimes... if only to bring a little peace" -bc
http://www.suicidekiss.org

[This message has been edited by Smiley (edited 04-16-2002).]

happy peter pan
04-16-2002, 02:45 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by memories_unwind:
They played the Manchester Apollo show which was cancelled later.</font>

???

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http://www.asparagusproductions.com/tomahawk/20020201adelaide-mike03.jpg
Put on the mask and dance for daddy (http://www.geocities.com/atari_monster/spboots.html)

memories_unwind
04-16-2002, 02:50 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by happy peter pan:
???

</font>

Shit, I meant:
They played Manchester Apollo - which they cancelled in January 2000 - later (during their Infinite Sadness tour in September.
Now I know what the correctors of my midterms in English meant with "syntax problems and resulting problems of understanding" http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

[This message has been edited by memories_unwind (edited 04-16-2002).]

smashingjj
04-16-2002, 02:56 PM
every album was completely differtent from the other and still good. billy was incredibly diverse in songwriting, and it changed in the period they existed.

but I guess someone said that before.

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Mallow (http://www.angelfire.com/ma2/mallow)


http://www.director-file.com/cunningham/5226.jpg

sarmatianus
04-16-2002, 08:22 PM
You can pretty much get most of what you'd want and or need from some extrapolation and interpretation of the Sound Opinions interview. (although much has already been brought up here)

Details with ticket prices, venues, sales...I mean, it's interesting and all, but it ultimately doesn't matter if the music sucks. Not that these things shouldn't be good secondary arguments, but stick with the music (and its influences and followers) and you'll have a better argument.

Perfect example is the Pixies - they took from many diverse and disparate sounds and created something totally new which then became a cornerstone for the next generation of musicians. Even if they had had the messiest breakup in the world, charged $500 per ticket, and sold eight copies of their albums, their influence would still outweigh all that.

Just something to gnaw on...

sarmatianus

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I Am The Radio (http://sp.iwarp.com/)

[This message has been edited by sarmatianus (edited 04-16-2002).]

Digital Grey
04-17-2002, 02:04 AM
i doubt any band in the timeline you speak of is as developed as our's.

Pearl jam
www.fivehorizons.com (http://www.fivehorizons.com)
www.digijam.org/hardtoimagine (http://www.digijam.org/hardtoimagine)

Its neck and neck as far as communities go.

/Max

selection-7
04-17-2002, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Graveflower:
More people own the Wall, and the White Album, than own Mellon Collie.


Though that probably is true, b/c many of the cd sales for Wall and White go to people buying another copy in cd format to complement their vinyl, the actual # of people who own those albums is less than simply adding CD sales + vinyl sales (to take it even further, some people may even have replaced their vinyl with a new vinyl at some point, which further inflates sales statistics. B/C cd's are more robust than vinyl and b/c it hasn't even been a decade since MCIS was released, MCIS hasn't had this sales advantage yet.) Albums which are as old as Wall and White also benefit from sales to a new generations of kids, who weren't musically aware or even born when the albums originally came out. However, albums go platinum much easier these days, making it easier for albums such as MCIS to catch up--though much of the sales of Wall and White also occurred during more recent times. In other words, meaningfully comparing recent albums' success with older albums' success is complicated, if not impossible.

[Edit: Let me add that I'm referring to success in commercial terms as judged by album sales.]

[This message has been edited by selection-7 (edited 04-17-2002).]

mindilea
04-22-2002, 06:53 PM
Hi, I don't know if this is still a relevant thread--if you've already made your speech of not.
But you need to have a claim, support, and warrant (IB History taught me something, dammit!) Your claim is that the Smashing Pumpkins are the best band of the 90's. Your support would be all of the things that people have been listing above. So what you need now is a warrant.
This is the "definition" of your terms. If you phrase it as an if/then sentence:
"If the best band of the 90's is defined as (blank--this is your warrant), then (this is your claim) the Smashing Pumpkins are the best band because (this is your support) of blah blah blah.
I don't know what your warrant should be. But when my friend and I were trying to decide on the best band of the 90's, we had limiting terms. The band couldn't have had major releases before 1990. They had to be active in both halves of the decade. This would disqualify bands like Nirvana, who collapsed in 1994, and U2, since they're totally and 80's band.
It may seem like this is just disqualifying bands to make it easier, but keep in mind that the question is over who the best band of the *90's* is.
Then you need to define what would make a band the "best," and I would basically categorize the stuff that people have listed:
artistic diversity, fan base, online community, etc. And then elaborate on that for your support.
I hope that this little lesson in IB B.S. has been helpful for everyone.
Good luck on your speech!

PhantomFM
04-22-2002, 07:16 PM
I've always been in the habit of buying singles for the b-sides of a band im not sure about because if they're good, they'll have good b-sides. if they suck or are just average, either their b-sides will suck, or they wont have any and have live versions or remixes instead. and sp has had more b-sides and unreleased songs than released material, and its all classic

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PhantomFM (http://www.unc.edu/~lawsonb)

saucerful of secrets
04-23-2002, 01:33 PM
the wall - 23 x platinum
mcis - 8 x platinum(?)

wall probably still sells more than the smashing pumpkins..

GhostChild
04-23-2002, 01:56 PM
Name all the MTV music awards they won. See...Nirvanas biggest album was their first...they never got better...and like with all artist, they only got big after Kurt died. The Pumpkins were able to become the biggest rock band in the world in the 1996, well after the whole alternative grunge era went to shit. But to name them the best band of the 90s...I don't know. They were only HUGE from like 95-97 maybe. Thats 2 years...the 90s were 10 years. I think Pearl Jam may have been the better band of the 90s...Or even the Red Hot Chili Peppers. They were selling out arenas from like 95 on. SP couldn't even compare to these bands from 98 on. There were many bands that were better than SP in the 90s.

GhostChild
04-23-2002, 02:17 PM
OK...now I'm actually reading this thread more...you people...get your shit straight.

Whoever made the point of them selling out those early 2000 shows fast...is dumb. Those are small venues. Pearl Jam could sell out a Ampitheatre in 2000 in that time. SP couldnt even sell out venues like the Berkeley Community Theatre, in which Tool sold it out last year in like a min. SP wasn't even selling out arenas in 96. After Jimmy got the boot, many many people returned there tickets. Friends who live here in Sacramento told me the Arco show was empty...in which Incubus sold the whole place out last week.

As for ticket cost...what does that really matter? It just means they are nice guys. When you are big...thats when you know you can charge 60 bucks for a ticket and still sell the show out. Fucking Dave Matthews charges like 60 bucks a ticket, and they can sell out soilder field. If you wanna talk about a band that can sell out a show anywhere in the US, thats the one. The Pumpkins fucked themselves in 96 before they even got the chance to get huge.

OK...and the whole small club thing, how many other bands have done that in the past, or still do it? Shit Blink 182 did a small club tour in 2000, and I would consider them bigger than SP ever was.

What it all comes down to is album sales and tours...and who did the most sales and biggest shows. The Chili Peppers toured on Californication for like 3 years or something? They did a arena tour in 1999 and sold all the shows out. Then in 2000 they did a ampitheatre tour, and sold em all out. And if you wanna talk album sales, Linkon Park Park has sold more albums already than SD ever did. I can name many band thats have

Creed - Human Clay 5 mil in 21 weeks *wow*
Creed - first LP 10 mil
Kid Rock - Devil Without... 10 mil
Sublime - 5 mil
Linkin Park 7 mil
U2 - new one 3 mil
Staind - Break the Cycle 4 mil

and even disturted has sold 2 mil, SOAD already is at 2 mil. Dave Matthews sells almost 7 mil or so of every one. And then...

Blink 182
Eneima of the State - 5 mil

Red Hot Chili Peppers
Blood Sugar Sex Magic 7 mil
Californication 4 mil

Pearl Jam
Ten - 11 mil
Viatology 5 mil
Vs. 7 mil

oh...and Pearl Jam did that wihtout music videos...Jeremy was their last music video before Do the Evolution...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I think I have made a point of album sales here.

[This message has been edited by GhostChild (edited 04-23-2002).]

bloop
04-23-2002, 07:51 PM
Are you defining "greatest" as "best" or "most successful"? That they are the best can be argued, but that they are the most successful is an unabashedly stupid arguement to make.

Electro
04-26-2002, 10:56 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by GhostChild:
OK...now I'm actually reading this thread more...you people...get your shit straight.

Whoever made the point of them selling out those early 2000 shows fast...is dumb. Those are small venues. Pearl Jam could sell out a Ampitheatre in 2000 in that time. SP couldnt even sell out venues like the Berkeley Community Theatre, in which Tool sold it out last year in like a min. SP wasn't even selling out arenas in 96. After Jimmy got the boot, many many people returned there tickets. Friends who live here in Sacramento told me the Arco show was empty...in which Incubus sold the whole place out last week.

As for ticket cost...what does that really matter? It just means they are nice guys. When you are big...thats when you know you can charge 60 bucks for a ticket and still sell the show out. Fucking Dave Matthews charges like 60 bucks a ticket, and they can sell out soilder field. If you wanna talk about a band that can sell out a show anywhere in the US, thats the one. The Pumpkins fucked themselves in 96 before they even got the chance to get huge.

OK...and the whole small club thing, how many other bands have done that in the past, or still do it? Shit Blink 182 did a small club tour in 2000, and I would consider them bigger than SP ever was.

What it all comes down to is album sales and tours...and who did the most sales and biggest shows. The Chili Peppers toured on Californication for like 3 years or something? They did a arena tour in 1999 and sold all the shows out. Then in 2000 they did a ampitheatre tour, and sold em all out. And if you wanna talk album sales, Linkon Park Park has sold more albums already than SD ever did. I can name many band thats have

Creed - Human Clay 5 mil in 21 weeks *wow*
Creed - first LP 10 mil
Kid Rock - Devil Without... 10 mil
Sublime - 5 mil
Linkin Park 7 mil
U2 - new one 3 mil
Staind - Break the Cycle 4 mil

and even disturted has sold 2 mil, SOAD already is at 2 mil. Dave Matthews sells almost 7 mil or so of every one. And then...

Blink 182
Eneima of the State - 5 mil

Red Hot Chili Peppers
Blood Sugar Sex Magic 7 mil
Californication 4 mil

Pearl Jam
Ten - 11 mil
Viatology 5 mil
Vs. 7 mil

oh...and Pearl Jam did that wihtout music videos...Jeremy was their last music video before Do the Evolution...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I think I have made a point of album sales here.

[This message has been edited by GhostChild (edited 04-23-2002).]</font>


You cant really compare SP to bands with different types of music. linkin park are complete sellouts and if you target your music to little girls to make them think they are being "on the edge" then of course you will sell a lot of seats. SP could have been HUGE if they would have sold out, but the music quality would have gone to hell and most of their original fan base would leave too. i mean, could you really stand listening to billy sing a shallow song like "One Step Closer"?

Graveflower
04-27-2002, 01:07 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by GhostChild:
Creed - Human Clay 5 mil
Sublime - 5 mil
Linkin Park 7 mil
U2 - new one 3 mil
Staind - Break the Cycle 4 mil
Blink 182 - Enema of the State - 5 mil
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Blood Sugar Sex Magic 7 mil
Californication 4 mil

</font>

SMASHING PUMPKINS MELLON COLLIE AND THE INFINITE SADNESS 07/17/01 VIRGIN RECORDS Multi Platinum 9.0

Graveflower
04-27-2002, 01:08 PM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by GhostChild:
Nirvanas biggest album was their first...</font>

lol

saucerful of secrets
04-28-2002, 07:01 AM
So what would they have actually done if they had decided to sell out? In my opinion they have been doing the exact same things any other pop band does, their style just isn't popular anymore. It's not like Billy didn't try to be a huge succes.

Gooch
04-29-2002, 11:37 AM
Okay! I gave my speech the other day, and I just want to say THANK YOU ALL for your input. First off, the speech went extremely well, I actually had too much info for my alotted time. The whole class listened attentively the whole time. They asked questions, most of which expressed amazement at the info I was saying. As soon as it was over, one girl was like, "Wow, that was amazing. I never knew what a great band and bunch of people SP were". Even the teacher asked which album he should give a listen to, and after class asked again to make sure his facts were staight (this from the guy who scoffed when I told him the topic). One woman brought up the fact that her kids listen to crap bands who approve drug usage, bad role models, money hungry, etc. And how, "she wishes more bands were like SP". I got a really good grade on the presentation, and no one argued my points (they argue everything). So it went extremely well, and here's a thank you to you guys! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif

Mayfuck
04-29-2002, 11:54 AM
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Gooch:
Okay! I gave my speech the other day, and I just want to say THANK YOU ALL for your input. First off, the speech went extremely well, I actually had too much info for my alotted time. The whole class listened attentively the whole time. They asked questions, most of which expressed amazement at the info I was saying. As soon as it was over, one girl was like, "Wow, that was amazing. I never knew what a great band and bunch of people SP were". Even the teacher asked which album he should give a listen to, and after class asked again to make sure his facts were staight (this from the guy who scoffed when I told him the topic). One woman brought up the fact that her kids listen to crap bands who approve drug usage, bad role models, money hungry, etc. And how, "she wishes more bands were like SP". I got a really good grade on the presentation, and no one argued my points (they argue everything). So it went extremely well, and here's a thank you to you guys! http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif </font>

That's really good to hear.