should billy have taken the "chinese democracy" route and simply delayed this album rather than leaking it onto the internet?

Duh.

the everlasting gaze was a much more impressive first single...so I say yes. If that 10 second rant was deleted from the track.....I would have that song listed way higher on my all time sp favs.

roy thomas baker to billy corgan - you want to make a song with multiple corgans saying "we are starz?"

The answer to your thread title is YES.

The answer to your poll question is NO.

machina 2 is crap. save the few gems.

edit: i voted no. but imagine a machina double album? that would have been amazing.

please make your thread question and poll question the same next time kthxbai

machina 2 is crap. save the few gems.

edit: i voted no. but imagine a machina double album? that would have been amazing.

Disagree. Machina II ROCKS save a few stinkers.

But 2000 was the right year for its release. Today, it would sound way to derivative of what happened around the time of the break-up, not to mention a demonstrably cheap way to rip off fans by pretending the music is new when it's not

you know what

machina II > zeitgeist

Machina II > Zeitgeist > Machina

yes?

close

probably machina II > machina > zeitgeist

these are all pretty close though, pretty debatable.

I agree, they are close.
Machina II wins though, for sure.

Absolutely.

Machina II wouldn't have sold 146,000 copies cause they totally only made like 25 copies. Duhhh.

How bout (Machina = Zeitgeist) > Machina 2

Cash Car Star wouldn't have been the hit that Tarantula is.

yes, but after 1st week only 2 copies would be sold

I wish Machina II could be released with a more professional production instead of the demoish sound of a lot of those songs(HOME especially). It's such a great album.

machina II > machina > zeitgeistthat is the correct answer

machina II would def sell the same amount...but I would be just as dissapointed as I was when it came out. Prob more pissed off after waiting 7 years.

Edit: Opps, machina II...still same answer though.

should machina ii been issued on cd this month instead of zeitgeist?

would machina II have sold 146,000 copies if we had been waiting 7 years to hear it?

2 different questions. Zeitgeist is better, but Machina II would have sold just as many copies... although it hasn't got any singles as good as tarantula (not that tarantula is the perfect single)

Could you imagine how pissed people here would have been if Billy announced that the new record was a sequel to Machina?

I fucking love Machina II

Machina II > Zeitgeist > Machina

yes?

Yes.

should machina ii been issued on cd this month instead of zeitgeist?

would machina II have sold 146,000 copies if we had been waiting 7 years to hear it?

2 different questions. Zeitgeist is better, but Machina II would have sold just as many copies... although it hasn't got any singles as good as tarantula (not that tarantula is the perfect single)

I would say Cash Car Star, Dross, and Blue Skies (heavy) and Atom Bomb (alt.) could all have just as easily have been singles.

Zeitgeist >>>>>>> Machina II >>>>>>>>>>> Machina

that is the correct answer

that's fucking stupid.

uh... ok. assuming Machina 2 was never released? And for the reunion record the title leaks on SP.com "Machina II: the friends and enemies of modern music." I believe there would be an attempt on Billy's life. How retarded is this question?

uh... ok. assuming Machina 2 was never released? And for the reunion record the title leaks on SP.com "Machina II: the friends and enemies of modern music." I believe there would be an attempt on Billy's life. How retarded is this question?



But you still would have bought it right?

machina II is full of the most cringe-worthy lyrics billy has ever written.
i am thinking specifically of cash car star and glass' theme.
that leno performance was the absolute low point for the band.

Ooooooh. Poll is currently split 50/50, er...32/32.

Machina II sucks. Cash Car Star is a terrible song.

if the pumpkins remastered machina II and produced it properly i would LOVE to hear that

i would probably buy a commercially released machina ii

I'd like an actual decent recording of Machina II. That'd be great. Of course, the production on Zeitgeist doesn't impress me much either. Bothers my ears in the same way for both of those albums.

actually, if machina ii was commercially released we would all probably decide it sounds like shit compared with the original

it doesn't matter what the record sounds like, it would have sold the same no matter what.

Yes.



I would say Cash Car Star, Dross, and Blue Skies (heavy) and Atom Bomb (alt.) could all have just as easily have been singles.


you're crazy. dross is a good song, but underdeveloped for a radio single. cash car star is ok but would be a flop and while i like Atom Bomb, its a great example of how billy's head just was not screwed on right during machina. could have been a great track but instead of the classic pumpkins soothing bassyness, everthing was grating like metal smashing together only making billy grating vocals worse

billy's head just was not screwed on right during machina.
do you really think it's better now?

do you really think it's better now?


:erm: good point. though i do think that zeitgeist is alot better. i seriously listened to machina once and was crestfallen. even after 7 years of SP down time, i am into about half of zeitgeist.

machina II was varied but still had this horrible treble rather than bass approach, but i think the songs are generally more interesting. like every 8 months i try to put together a solid machina tracklisting out of all the demos/boots/Machina I and II, and i still can't enjoy it.

MCIS was so varied that if billy had used that as the template for the rest of their career... even doing softer albums and harder albums, but maintaining THAT aesthetic, they would have been amazing. machina is the sound of a guy that thinks that he dictates what people will like. zeitgeist is the sound of a guy self-conciously trying to please fans, please record execs and please himself and having it not come together.

why is le duex machina on machina 2. ruins it beyond belief.