I can't say if the sales are being good or not..don't have comparison with other data from other "similar" bands...
The fact is the we live in a different world nowadays, and the new generation tends to like other stuff. IMO, most of the new bands don't have talent...most of them suffer from the "second album disease".
Hip hop and rnb are losing ground, at least here in europe, dunno about USA. But still, the old bands will never be able to get to the masses, to my sadness. In my foolish dreams, once I imagined that SP will start a revolution in today's world, that somehow we could return to the golden times of the early 90's, which I lived very partially and would like to live as a 23yo man now! Well, Pearl Jam become huge in Portugal in the last years...lets say since 2006, because they gave this awesome concert in portugalEddie knows to say the right things, in the right time and acts cool. that conquers people!!So, maybe there are exceptions...
But the mai issue is that we live in a "cool" world..where everyone tries to look cool, (if you know what I mean?)! ANd Smashing pumpkins were never a cool band! Billy is not a sex symbol like kurt or eddie and never acted like a cool guy! always said weird stuff...and that's what I love in him....a guy who wrote some of the most beautiful lyrics and songs, opening himself to the world and not fearing the consequences...
So, in a "cool" world, the new generation will not find interest in the Smashing Pumpkins unless they are able to create a vibe around them, somehow..could be thru the music but zeitgeist is average, not groundbreaking...
I don't expect SP to sell a lot of albums, i know i will continue to meet very few pumpkins fans but that's what makes it so special!
To the kids in this forum i have to say: don't diss at me, i'm just talking about the majority of kids..there's always exceptions...good ones, in this case..


hope this is not too boring...

your not cool

your not cool


:smoke:

To the kids in this forum i have to say: don't diss at me, i'm just talking about the majority of kids..there's always exceptions...good ones, in this case..

As a young one, I know first-hand that the masses of young people basically suck as far as taste in music goes. But it's because of what they're exposed to. Listen to any mainstream radio station and what do you hear? Carbon copies of Fallout Boy. Barf!!

I wish people would get into SP more... maybe eventually they will, if the music industry finally just explodes (it's getting there...) or shifts gears and gets decent again.

By the way, I think you're cool!

because i'm bored and at work. of course i can't compare these to other acts because i don't really have the info or the drive and ambition...and i'm totally relying on a previous poster for the 26,000 number in week 3, i have no idea where to get those numbers.

us sales
1 #2 145,000
2 #12 37,000 (-75.5%)
3 #22 26,000 (-29.8%)
_______
US total sales of 208,000


world sales
1 #1 244,000
2 #7 120,000 (-51.9%)
3 #16 87,000 (-27.5%)
______

world total sales of
451,000

% of world sales being US
1 59.4%
2 30.8%
3 29.9%
_______
from totals
46.1%

How many need to be sold world-wide to make gold? Or is it a by-country sort of thing? I really don't understand how these things work (gold, platinum, diamond, etc) but I'm still hoping for at least a gold album (DOUBT it'll go any higher than that). Just so Billy can feel good about himself.

I'm 15 and I just got telling one of my friends that Warped Tour is a bunch of crappy bands and you should listen to more Smashing Pumpkins or Foo Fighters or something. She told me that they were all old peoples band and that they suck...I just laughed at her.

By the way, I think you're cool!

Thanks! I just wanna be loved! :D

I'm 15 and I just got telling one of my friends that Warped Tour is a bunch of crappy bands and you should listen to more Smashing Pumpkins or Foo Fighters or something. She told me that they were all old peoples band and that they suck...I just laughed at her.
nobody gives a fuck

I can't say if the sales are being good or not..don't have comparison with other data from other "similar" bands...
The fact is the we live in a different world nowadays, and the new generation tends to like other stuff. IMO, most of the new bands don't have talent...most of them suffer from the "second album disease".
Hip hop and rnb are losing ground, at least here in europe, dunno about USA. But still, the old bands will never be able to get to the masses, to my sadness. In my foolish dreams, once I imagined that SP will start a revolution in today's world, that somehow we could return to the golden times of the early 90's, which I lived very partially and would like to live as a 23yo man now! Well, Pearl Jam become huge in Portugal in the last years...lets say since 2006, because they gave this awesome concert in portugalEddie knows to say the right things, in the right time and acts cool. that conquers people!!So, maybe there are exceptions...
But the mai issue is that we live in a "cool" world..where everyone tries to look cool, (if you know what I mean?)! ANd Smashing pumpkins were never a cool band! Billy is not a sex symbol like kurt or eddie and never acted like a cool guy! always said weird stuff...and that's what I love in him....a guy who wrote some of the most beautiful lyrics and songs, opening himself to the world and not fearing the consequences...
So, in a "cool" world, the new generation will not find interest in the Smashing Pumpkins unless they are able to create a vibe around them, somehow..could be thru the music but zeitgeist is average, not groundbreaking...
I don't expect SP to sell a lot of albums, i know i will continue to meet very few pumpkins fans but that's what makes it so special!
To the kids in this forum i have to say: don't diss at me, i'm just talking about the majority of kids..there's always exceptions...good ones, in this case..


hope this is not too boring...

i read the first and last sentence. get the fuck out.

so much hostility...

why you gotta hate?

I'm gonna keep saying that until I explode.

you're too used to the lover cigarski in the digi fuck fest thread.


if you post something retarded, or ask netphoria not to "diss" you. its gonna be dished out. someones gotta check these kids, because for some reason they think 17 posts in that they can write a fucking essay and everyone's gonna read it. and then ask not to catch shit for a god awful post.

I didn't think the post was god-awful.

Haha, you don't need to give me the n00b speech XD For while I am one, I catch on pretty dern quick... this place isn't hard to figure out. harharharhahr and i love it.

Just sayin', I thought the dude had some nice stuff to say.

But then, I'm in a good mood.

acts cool. we live in a "cool" world..where everyone tries to look cool, (if you know what I mean?)! ANd Smashing pumpkins were never a cool band! never acted like a cool guy
So, in a "cool" world don't diss at me


cool!




























:hurl:

you adore adore.

you doggone right.

well judging by the nature of my last few posts on this board, its probably time for me to go to bed.


enjoy discussing where zeitgeist is on billboard. cuz you know all the best albums hit the charts. just look at the company zeitgeist is keeping.


which is one of my fav flawed arguements for when netphorian music snobs burn zeitgeist's or any other corgan effort based on sales, but rub out a load for arcade fire or shit knows who else who couldn't touch the charts if they wanted to.

How many need to be sold world-wide to make gold? Or is it a by-country sort of thing? I really don't understand how these things work (gold, platinum, diamond, etc) but I'm still hoping for at least a gold album (DOUBT it'll go any higher than that). Just so Billy can feel good about himself.

not sure about world sales.

countries award ratings for varying sales figures, for example US platinum = 1 million units, UK something like 100,000.

zeitgeist will likely go gold in US eventually.

So in short......it bombed right?

I guess if people keep saying its a commercial failure over and over and over again (like they've been doing since...oh, about six months before the record came out), eventually it'll be a "bomb" no matter how much it sells.

i read the first and last sentence. get the fuck out.


you're badass...

btw, you should check my age before calling me a kid, kid! :smoke:

i did check your age and it means a fuck nothing when you post like a 14 year old girl.


cool!

i did check your age and it means a fuck nothing when you post like a 14 year old girl.


cool!


maybe the problem is my english or maybe you are just stupid!
por isso, se quiseres começo a falar em português, talvez nos entendamos melhor!
best regards...

I can't say if the sales are being good or not..don't have comparison with other data from other "similar" bands...
The fact is the we live in a different world nowadays, and the new generation tends to like other stuff. IMO, most of the new bands don't have talent...most of them suffer from the "second album disease".
Hip hop and rnb are losing ground, at least here in europe, dunno about USA. But still, the old bands will never be able to get to the masses, to my sadness. In my foolish dreams, once I imagined that SP will start a revolution in today's world, that somehow we could return to the golden times of the early 90's, which I lived very partially and would like to live as a 23yo man now! Well, Pearl Jam become huge in Portugal in the last years...lets say since 2006, because they gave this awesome concert in portugalEddie knows to say the right things, in the right time and acts cool. that conquers people!!So, maybe there are exceptions...
But the mai issue is that we live in a "cool" world..where everyone tries to look cool, (if you know what I mean?)! ANd Smashing pumpkins were never a cool band! Billy is not a sex symbol like kurt or eddie and never acted like a cool guy! always said weird stuff...and that's what I love in him....a guy who wrote some of the most beautiful lyrics and songs, opening himself to the world and not fearing the consequences...
So, in a "cool" world, the new generation will not find interest in the Smashing Pumpkins unless they are able to create a vibe around them, somehow..could be thru the music but zeitgeist is average, not groundbreaking...
I don't expect SP to sell a lot of albums, i know i will continue to meet very few pumpkins fans but that's what makes it so special!
To the kids in this forum i have to say: don't diss at me, i'm just talking about the majority of kids..there's always exceptions...good ones, in this case..



Right on....it was funny when the Pumpkins became big in the 90's because I used to get bashed for being a fan. Then Mellon Collie came out and changed all of that...I don't know if that will ever happen again...but you never know.

208,000 copies sold in first 3 weeks sucks. I hate to tell you but this album probably won't reach gold status for along time if at all. I predict under 15,000 people will buy it next week and then look for a continued decrease. I personally like the album but I'm not confident in the commercial success of it.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think those are good sales, especially for a group coming back after 7 years.

whatever.

It will go Gold by October.

Hey, believe me I want it to go Multi-platinum, I just don't see it happening. I hope I'm wrong.

I seriously think it will easily go gold.
Fuck, even Machina went gold.

I think Zeitgeist has a better collection of singles than Machina, which will help it sell more.

Speaking of charts, I know of 2 radio stations in Boston and Providence that are doing their part in promoting Zeitgeist. Doomsday Clock is now #6 up from #8 last week on WBCN's (Boston) Top Ten, and WBRU (Providence) is playing "Thats The Way" and saying good stuff about Zeitgeist.

I seriously think it will easily go gold.
Fuck, even Machina went gold.

I think Zeitgeist has a better collection of singles than Machina, which will help it sell more.
Stand Inside Your Love > Zeitgeist

arcade fire or shit knows who else who couldn't touch the charts if they wanted to.
Arcade Fire's Neon Bible debuted at number two this past March. (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003557829) Believe it or not, some good music does sell.

Stand Inside Your Love > Zeitgeist

Bring the Light, That's The Way > SIYL

my mom's meatloaf > restaurant meatloaf.

Am I the only one who thought "Stand Inside Your Love" really wasn't anything special? Don't get me wrong, it's a good enough song... but people here act like its on par with classics like "Hummer" and "Ruby." Seriously, it's a really, really basic song. It took me about 2 minutes to learn how to play it. And the lyrics are okay, but nothing revolutionary, especially not for Corgan.

Everyone treats it like it's the saving grace of Machina... and it is a highlight of the album... but personally I think that's just a reflection of how lackluster the other songs were.

I'd think that the fact that the band has been gone for seven years would be more likely to detract from sales than add to them.
The album is doing extremely well, the sales are huge compared to what could be expected.

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manson still sells

Am I the only one who thought "Stand Inside Your Love" really wasn't anything special? Don't get me wrong, it's a good enough song... but people here act like its on par with classics like "Hummer" and "Ruby." Seriously, it's a really, really basic song. It took me about 2 minutes to learn how to play it. And the lyrics are okay, but nothing revolutionary, especially not for Corgan.

Everyone treats it like it's the saving grace of Machina... and it is a highlight of the album... but personally I think that's just a reflection of how lackluster the other songs were.

Same here. It's a decent song, nothing more.

Naw, I don't agree. SIYL is perfect to me. The tone of the guitar, the drummin', everything.

Technically, maybe not so great. There are a lot of amazing songs that take two seconds to learn ("Disarm," "Spaceboy," "Luna"). And lyrically I think it's perfect, too. But to each their own =)

Am I the only one who thought "Stand Inside Your Love" really wasn't anything special? Don't get me wrong, it's a good enough song... but people here act like its on par with classics like "Hummer" and "Ruby." Seriously, it's a really, really basic song. It took me about 2 minutes to learn how to play it. And the lyrics are okay, but nothing revolutionary, especially not for Corgan.

Everyone treats it like it's the saving grace of Machina... and it is a highlight of the album... but personally I think that's just a reflection of how lackluster the other songs were.




Youre an idiot.

Stand Inside Your Love is the best song Billy ever wrote.

I dunno if it's a great single though.

that's pushing it!

siyl is one of the top 3 tracks off machina, so it bears comparison with the classics, but i hate making lists, so...

Youre an idiot.

Ah, such a brilliant response. Fuck off.

Am I the only one who thought "Stand Inside Your Love" really wasn't anything special? Don't get me wrong, it's a good enough song... but people here act like its on par with classics like "Hummer" and "Ruby." Seriously, it's a really, really basic song. It took me about 2 minutes to learn how to play it. And the lyrics are okay, but nothing revolutionary, especially not for Corgan.


SIYL is definitely one of Corgan's best. Great imagery without the problem of going so abstract that you wonder what the hell was he thinking.

I've always loved the very subtle way he changes the song from being a straightforward love song to being about unfulfilled love. That "and for the last time, you're everything that I want and ask for" line completely changes the tone of the song. The song is in the same vein as In the Arms of Sleep or Crestfallen but drawing attention to love rather than longing.

Like most of Machina, it's better live than in studio. Most live versions of the song (especially from the Arising tour, which I grew so attached to) have so much more emotion in the lyrics, particularly in the "in for the first/last time" sections.

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think those are good sales, especially for a group coming back after 7 years.

Being out of the public's eye for 7 years doesn't tend to help a band.

And it looks like the numbers could be better than Machina and Adore. I'd say that the numbers are pretty good if it's their best since MCIS.

Hell, it already outsold TFE.

Only an idiot would buy TFE.

Myself *******d... :erm:

Am I the only one who thought "Stand Inside Your Love" really wasn't anything special? Don't get me wrong, it's a good enough song... but people here act like its on par with classics like "Hummer" and "Ruby." Seriously, it's a really, really basic song. It took me about 2 minutes to learn how to play it. And the lyrics are okay, but nothing revolutionary, especially not for Corgan.

Everyone treats it like it's the saving grace of Machina... and it is a highlight of the album... but personally I think that's just a reflection of how lackluster the other songs were.

It's a good thing you judge songs by how long they took you to learn.

I figured out TtEoR in one minute.

Like most of Machina, it's better live than in studio. Most live versions of the song (especially from the Arising tour, which I grew so attached to) have so much more emotion in the lyrics, particularly in the "in for the first/last time" sections.

This I can definitely agree with. When I saw them in Asheville, they played 3 Machina I songs: SIYL, Blue Skies Bring Tears and The Crying Tree of Mercury, and all three sounded amazing. BSBT abd TCTOM were both drastically different from the album versions so that might have made them sound so much better, but SIYL was pretty much the same and sounded a lot more powerful than it did on the CD so yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

It's a good thing you judge songs by how long they took you to learn.

I figured out TtEoR in one minute.

You know, I love how it's impossible to say anything on this board, positive or negative, without someone making some smartshit comment. For your information, when I said that it took me 2 minutes to figure out how to play, what I meant was that I didn't find the guitar work to be anything particularly outstanding. That, put together with lyrics and vocals that I didn't find to be all that stellar, was why I don't think this song should be counted among Corgan's best.

I'm not saying that just because it's not one of my personal favorites that you're an idiot if you like it. It's just that I, personally, feel Corgan has many, many superior songs in his repertoire.

You know, I love how it's impossible to say anything on this board, positive or negative, without someone making some smartshit comment. For your information, when I said that it took me 2 minutes to figure out how to play, what I meant was that I didn't find the guitar work to be anything particularly outstanding. That, put together with lyrics and vocals that I didn't find to be all that stellar, was why I don't think this song should be counted among Corgan's best.

I'm not saying that just because it's not one of my personal favorites that you're an idiot if you like it. It's just that I, personally, feel Corgan has many, many superior songs in his repertoire.

Sorry, but it just seemed like you were making your negative judgment upon the song based upon it's simplicity, which, in fact, makes it stand out from most of the songs on MACHINA.

Sorry, but it just seemed like you were making your negative judgment upon the song based upon it's simplicity, which, in fact, makes it stand out from most of the songs on MACHINA.

Well, it is true that sometimes the simple songs are the best ones... "Jupiter's Lament" is a perfect example of this, at least in my opinion. So yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. I will compliment SIYL for being one of the few Machina songs that doesn't really seem to be playing to the whole "break-up" theme or the whole Glass and the Machines of God story. I think it's a song that Billy wrote and really liked and put it on the album despite the fact that it wasn't concerned with the "I of the Radio" or whatever.

Not that I think the whole concept of the album wasn't interesting, but it's good to see that Corgan didn't get so lost in it that he sacrificed all the songs he wrote at the time that didn't fit into the story.

I'm glad you brought up "Jupiter's Lament." That's one of my favorite Pumpkins songs, and seriously just like... four chords? Yeah. I think that's right. Four or five. But all basic ones that a beginner could get without a problem at all.

And I also agree with what you said about SIYL not really fitting the story... and all that. Good call, Billy.

Well, it is true that sometimes the simple songs are the best ones... "Jupiter's Lament" is a perfect example of this, at least in my opinion. So yeah, I can see where you're coming from there. I will compliment SIYL for being one of the few Machina songs that doesn't really seem to be playing to the whole "break-up" theme or the whole Glass and the Machines of God story. I think it's a song that Billy wrote and really liked and put it on the album despite the fact that it wasn't concerned with the "I of the Radio" or whatever.

Not that I think the whole concept of the album wasn't interesting, but it's good to see that Corgan didn't get so lost in it that he sacrificed all the songs he wrote at the time that didn't fit into the story.

Yes.

"Well, 'Stand Inside Your Love' is one of those rare songs that seems to write itself really quickly. As far as the song goes, it's sort of a love song that rocks, which is pretty rare, even for me. And I even got my girlfriend dancing in the video, so it's all a tribute to my girlfriend, I guess."

I'm glad you brought up "Jupiter's Lament." That's one of my favorite Pumpkins songs, and seriously just like... four chords? Yeah. I think that's right. Four or five. But all basic ones that a beginner could get without a problem at all.

And I also agree with what you said about SIYL not really fitting the story... and all that. Good call, Billy.


Yeah, Jupiter is incredibly easy to play...really only 3 chords with a little interlude after each of the choruses. And as someone who's played it live at a lot of shows, that songs really resonates with people... even ones who aren't really Pumpkins fans and who most likely have never heard it before. Apparently there's a version of it somewhere that sounds like a gospel song and all of the band members sing on it. I'd like to hear what it sounds like, just out of morbid curiosity but I'm glad that the simple acoustic version was the one that became the "official" cut.

oh yeah, definitely. I've said many times that Billy and an acoustic guitar is a force to be reckoned with.

oh yeah, definitely. I've said many times that Billy and an acoustic guitar is a force to be reckoned with.

Yeah, but The Rose March is disappointing. Leave the capo alone, Billy.

aaahahahaha

I honestly don't even remember which one that is. All I know is that in general I love the residency songs. "The Leaving Lament," "I Don't Mind," "Question Mark," "I'm Doing the Best I Can," etc... they're so great.

One bad song isn't enough to weaken my faith in acoustic-Billy.

aaahahahaha

I honestly don't even remember which one that is. All I know is that in general I love the residency songs. "The Leaving Lament," "I Don't Mind," "Question Mark," "I'm Doing the Best I Can," etc... they're so great.

One bad song isn't enough to weaken my faith in acoustic-Billy.

It's the song he's playing in one of those A Day In the Life videos (the latest one, I believe.)

oh really?? Well heck, I love that song, then!

You silly

i silly

hahahaha

I just pictured Billy blushing and saying "I silly" like a three-year-old.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahha

Netphoria -- an LOLFEST every night!

hecka yeahz.

So what was this thread about?

Album chart. right. So where it at?

Yeah, at the residency show I saw, he played "I Don't Mind" and another one "A Song I Sing?" Maybe that was the name of it? I'm not sure, but I really liked it.

Anyway, yeah... it takes Billboard all fucking week to update, so we might as well talk about whatever here because we won't find out how Zeitgeist did until some fucking time on Friday, probably.

A Song I Sing = Question Mark

adore, horse farm today? ;)

no ma'am. Only saturdays, woo woo!

Though I am cashing my first paycheck today.

And seeing Transformers (with my mom. HA! I love my mom)

Anyhoo.

no ma'am. Only saturdays, woo woo!

Though I am cashing my first paycheck today.

And seeing Transformers (with my mom. HA! I love my mom)

Anyhoo.

damn you, saturdays only!? enjoy transformers, i did. i think i annoyed my boyfriend when doomsday clock was on though... oh well!

Yep, during the week it's just camp, and I'm not a counsellor (thaaaaaaaaank GOD), and it's closed on Sundays.

Haha... well I'm gonna make my mom sit through the credits until Doomsday Clock is over (it's after that Linkin Park piece o' crap, right?)

Yep, during the week it's just camp, and I'm not a counsellor (thaaaaaaaaank GOD), and it's closed on Sundays.

Haha... well I'm gonna make my mom sit through the credits until Doomsday Clock is over (it's after that Linkin Park piece o' crap, right?)
the instrumental version is actually <i>in</i> the movie too, near the end. i won't say anymore! you'll enjoy it.

yeah, I heard it was in somewhere... something about a bumblebee and a fight scene. I'm not familiar with the cartoon, so maybe I just made something up right then.

In ANY case, I'm excited. I actually wanted to see the movie, too... when I found out SP were on the soundtrack I was so excited =)

yeah, I heard it was in somewhere... something about a bumblebee and a fight scene. I'm not familiar with the cartoon, so maybe I just made something up right then.

This is correct! I was pumped when they said they were making a movie, i watched the cartoon growing up. my boyfriend has transformers action figures from the 80's still. and then when sp were announced for the soundtrack, i was even happier.

that Linkin Park piece o' crap

WHAT I'VE DUUUMMMPPED!!!!

hahaahahahahha

very appropriate. no sarcasm.

I seriously think it will easily go gold.
Fuck, even Machina went gold.

That was 7 years ago before downloading.

I think Zeitgeist has a better collection of singles than Machina, which will help it sell more.
Problem is, they're not using them. That's the Way (My Love Is) will flop dreadfully.

hahaahahahahha

very appropriate. no sarcasm.

lol, thanks. God, I hate Linkin Park. Everytime someone buys one of their albums it makes me want the world to end all that much more.

OMG... Transformers... was... AWESOME. I swear, I think my mouth was open the whole time. And guess what! Before we went into the theater, some guy walked by and said "Nice shirt." (I had my SP flag shirt on--wooooo) Turns out he went to see Transformers, too. I wanted to ask him what he thought about "Doomsday Clock" and whether he got Normal tickets, but he seemed like he didn't want to chat past saying "nice shirt" (I got that impression because he didn't even make eye contact when he said it and just kept walking as I said "thanks." Now that I think of it, I sure hope he was talking to me. hahahahahaha)

Anyway.

Right, album chart.

Ummm I really just want Zeitgeist to go gold. No, it doesn't matter. I love it, I think it got the job done. But still, it would be nice if it at least went gold.

That was 7 years ago before downloading.


Problem is, they're not using them. That's the Way (My Love Is) will flop dreadfully.

No it won't.

I just saw a video for Muse "Supermassive black hole" last weekend on VH1. That album came out like 6 months ago and that track sure did'nt seem like a single to me. I'm guessing they are still selling albums. Who knows whats gonna happen.

I just saw a video for Muse "Supermassive black hole" last weekend on VH1. That album came out like 6 months ago and that track sure did'nt seem like a single to me. I'm guessing they are still selling albums. Who knows whats gonna happen.

. . .it was the lead single, i'm pretty sure

Oh, Maybe. I don't follow music much but I was suprised to see it. I never saw it as a single anyway they (VH1) still play it and it's not on the radio. Not the radio I listen to anyway. Just saying, that song kinda sucks and the video is still played.

Edit: Well, the song doesnt suck but it doesnt seem like a single.

I first heard "Starflight" on the radio in January and bought the album. I live in a hick town so probly missed the buzz on the album I guess.

Oh, Maybe. I don't follow music much but I was suprised to see it. I never saw it as a single anyway they (VH1) still play it and it's not on the radio. Not the radio I listen to anyway. Just saying, that song kinda sucks and the video is still played.

Edit: Well, the song doesnt suck but it doesnt seem like a single.

I first heard "Starflight" on the radio in January and bought the album. I live in a hick town so probly missed the buzz on the album I guess.

yeah it came out last....july, i believe. sometime in the summer. and yeah it seemed like a weird choice to me too, but people seem(ed) to like it. and i do too, of course. starlight immediately struck me as single material though.

Yeah, my point was only that buzz about albums can go on for quite a while. Their album is old and still getting played. another song from that album is even on a movie trailer I've only seen in the last few weeks.

knights of cydonia! for 300. which had Just Like You Imagined (NIN) in the trailer. how awesome is that.

Yeah! that was it.
I was racking my brain for where I heard it. It's for the DVD release but still. As you pointed out the album is even older than I suspected. I'm listening to it now. It's a good album.

So I guess there is hope. Thats all.

that film was out like 4 months ago!

Errrr. Just came out on DVD last week and had massive adverts in the states. They even convinced me to buy a copy even though I havent watched it yet.

Edit: and Muse was in all the adverts I saw. I can't believe I couldn't place that since I bought the damed thing probly partly becasue of Muse being in the AD. I gota quit the pot man. It's fuckin up my memory for real.

sam's town re-entered the UK album charts coinciding with them getting prominent spots in a coupla festivals, which were shown on tv.

Errrr. Just came out on DVD last week and had massive adverts in the states. They even convinced me to buy a copy even though I havent watched it yet.

is it any good? a friend burned me a copy ages ago but i haven't got around to watching it yet. i'm pretty burned out with cgi i guess.

still sitting on top of the telly. I'll let you know if I ever get around to it.

bump
if anybody gets any info soon on sales and chart position, please post

k thnx

It's down to 29 on Billboard. Don't know what the actual copies sold are though. Does it list that somewhere on that stupid site?

29 is still better than I was expecting, though.

It's down to 29 on Billboard. Don't know what the actual copies sold are though. Does it list that somewhere on that stupid site?


why do u give a fuck how many copies sold? its none of your business. just listen to the music

Yeah, not too shabby, especially considering that we live in a world where Nickelcrap goes sextuple platinum or whatever.

why do u give a fuck how many copies sold? its none of your business. just listen to the music
yeah nice.

it's information made public, and many people (as you can see by the size of this thread) are interested.

why do u give a fuck how many copies sold? its none of your business. just listen to the music

O Enlighted One thou hast shown me the way! I am forever in your debt, O Wisest of Douchebags.

O Enlighted One thou hast shown me the way! I am forever in your debt, O Wisest of Douchebags.
you forgot to say "go eat a bag of dicks" :D

you forgot to say "go eat a bag of dicks" :D

Didn't need to. It's lunchtime right now, so if he's on Eastern time then I'm sure he's already munching away.

*grimace*

why you gotta hate?

I bought another copy as a gift on Monday.

Just doing my part... ;)

*grimace*

why you gotta hate?
I'm in a confontational mood today, for once in my life.
DON'T MESS W/ SMASHKIN!

It's down to 29 on Billboard. Don't know what the actual copies sold are though. Does it list that somewhere on that stupid site?
that's real good after 4 weeks.
i don't see a units sold listed anywhere but i saw that last night an album debuted at 30 (the starting line) and sold 20,000 units. "Other big debuts this week ******* Virgin rock troupe the Starting Line's "Direction" at No. 30 with 20,000,"

so SP would have sold at least 20,000 last week.

US SALES
week 1 (2) 146,000
week 2 (12) 37,000
week 3 (22) 26,000
week 4 (29) 20,001*
_______________
Total 229,001

75% drop from drop week 1 to 2
29.7% drop from week 2 to 3
23% drop from week 3 to 4

if the album can hold steady in the top 50 for another couple weeks i think this is great. sales would be solid and things would look better for future releases. i'll update tomorrow with a global sales numbers and comparisons.

my guess for global position and sales would be #25 with 71,000 sold

*somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000

thank you, gossamer =)

that's about what i expected. but i don't think billy & co is really worried about that. bands don't make money selling albums anymore, they make money with tours... and from the looks of it, the pumpkins are doing brisk business on the road so far.

but record companies do make money from album sales. If Zeitgeist didn't do well, SP might have been kicked off the label. Didn't Billy mention something about how if Warner didn't want them they'd just release a song a week or something? I don't remember what exactly the quote was... something like that.

In any case, I basically agree with you. Just saying, record sales aren't TOTALLY detached from a band.

my guess for global position and sales would be #25 with 71,000 sold

this is awesome! why even bother counting actual sales when you have instincts like this!

this is awesome! why even bother counting actual sales when you have instincts like this!
i said i'd update it.

last week's world sales were 87,000 good enough for #16. consider that with US sales that week of 26,000 accounting for 27% of total world sales.

so if 20,000 ends up being anywhere in the 25%-30% range that would be sales between 65,000 and 74,000.

last week numbers in that range
71,000 got #24
67,000 got #25
63,000 got #26

like i said, it was a GUESS.

i'm just a nerd with a spreadsheet

okay, you just took all the fun out of it now. super-evolutionary powers would've been much better.

okay, you just took all the fun out of it now. super-evolutionary powers would've been much better.
it would be FUN if i were wrong and the album went to #1 in germany all of the sudden :rofl:

g0ssamer iz smart!

my guess for global position and sales would be #25 with 71,000 sold

this is awesome! why even bother counting actual sales when you have instincts like this!

was a little off. ended up at #23 selling 69,000

ok so the pumpkins are 29th on billboard now after 4 weeks..
They are taking too long to bring out a new single I think...
but then again 29th isnt really bad.. compared with previous albums ..

Yeah, my point was only that buzz about albums can go on for quite a while. Their album is old and still getting played. another song from that album is even on a movie trailer I've only seen in the last few weeks.

Got a slight correction for you (not trying to be a jerk though...i'm happy to see people talking about muse).

Knights of Cydonia was the first single, and came out last July or August. It has an awesomely cheesy video with a futuristic space cowboy.

It was a good choice for first single.

I think Starlight was an awesome single, and really helped them appeal to a wider audience. Even my girlfriend who wouldn't listen to Muse at all liked Starlight (she didn't realize who it was)

It is kind of weird that supermassive black hole is the new one.

But like you said, it goes to show that even a band like Muse can get a video on VH1 a year after the album comes out.

There's still hope for the Pumpkins. They've got a (seemingly) top thirty album a month after it was released. I'm guessing that sales will increase dramatically in the fall, because nearly every show on the tour is being sponsored by local radio stations...which means there will be a big radio station in each tour city pimping the band for at least a month before the show.

Not to mention that the video for That's the Way could boost sales. I'd be surprised if it did, but it's poppy/happy enough to get airplay on VH1, so you never know.

I agree on both points. They sales seem to be leveling off, and they're still at 29. Sales should only increase with the fall tour.

I hope that the single for That's the Way does well enough that they get a third single.

A third single + tons of radio exposure from the tour could really boost sales.

wishful thinking. no ones gonna get into anything off zeitgeist. best case scenario would be bring the light as the second single.... didnt happen.

my final #'s for week 4. if anybody can get a better figure for US sales on week 4, lemme know and i'll put it in. every week from here on out will be harder to get good numbers. but i'll try it as long as i'm able to get decent enough figures to be able to make educated guesses.

US SALES
week 1 (2) 146,000
week 2 (12) 37,000 (-75.5%)
week 3 (22) 26,000 (-29.8%)
week 4 (29) 20,001* (-23.1%)
_______________
Total 229,001

*somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000

WORLD SALES
week 1 (1) 244,000
week 2 (7) 120,000 (-51.9%)
week 3 (16) 87,000 (-27.5%)
week 4 (23) 69,000 (-20.7%)
______
Total 520,000

US SALES vs WORLD SALES
% of world sales being US
1 59.4%
2 30.8%
3 29.9%
4 28.9&
_______
from totals
44.04%

Thanks for keeping us updated, gossamer1234

I'm so glad so many people can see the future... really helps in times like these

wishful thinking. no ones gonna get into anything off zeitgeist. best case scenario would be bring the light as the second single.... didnt happen.


yea man.

hmmm, doesn't look like this is going so well.

I'm so glad so many people can see the future... really helps in times like these

:blush:

hmmm, doesn't look like this is going so well.
i don't have the figures, but i really think that by week 4 both machina and adore were outside the top 50. could be wrong. i know i was guessing initially that it would be around 56 on week 3. fortunately i was way wrong.

i don't have the figures, but i really think that by week 4 both machina and adore were outside the top 50. could be wrong. i know i was guessing initially that it would be around 56 on week 3. fortunately i was way wrong.
I think the album is doing better than a lot of people suspected it would. Its not setting sales records by any means, but its selling a lot more steadily than anyone predicted. I think there were people here expecting TFE level sales, or at best MSOTS level. The fact that the album has been hanging in the top 30 this long is definitely a step up from the quick chart freefall the last 3 or 4 Corgan albums endured.

:blush:

I was actually saying that to brillo, not you. I was thanking you right above that... the seeing the future thing was in response to this guy:


wishful thinking. no ones gonna get into anything off zeitgeist. best case scenario would be bring the light as the second single.... didnt happen.

Carry on, gossamer1234


Been getting in a bad habit of not quoting... also I agree with you Corganist, Zeitgeist is doing better than expected

I think the album is doing awesome. It is half way to 1/2 million, which is my guess to how many it will sell in the end. I would have never predicted it would sell this many this quickly.

I think the album is doing awesome. It is half way to 1/2 million, which is my guess to how many it will sell in the end. I would have never predicted it would sell this many this quickly.


You know thats a worldwide number right? Thats pretty damn shitty for a worldwide number.

You know thats a worldwide number right? Thats pretty damn shitty for a worldwide number.

That is why I said it is 1/2 way to 500,000. That is pretty good, considering the time and age we live in and this album has a lot more staying power than I ever predicted. I figured it would be in the top 5 in the first week and then drop like a rock. It hasn't done that yet.

I'm sure Corgan is pretty pissed at how shitty these sales numbers are. However you guys want to spin it, thats what they are, shitty.

I don't think they're bad at all.

If a life-changing/music landscape changing album like mcis was released today, I would go so far to say that it probably wouldn't sell the amount it did in 1995 due to file sharing/downloading... it's just the way it is today.

I expect the sales to be the way they are.

I don't think they're bad at all.

Thats because you're an idiot.


You guys should really be looking at it from corgans view as much as possible. Also, some bands base their tour on how well sales are. Look at Kelly Clarkson, her album sold shit, and she had to cancel her tour. 500,000 for a worldwide number would seem to mean that those long massive year long plus sp tours are over.

As far as mellon collie being released today goes, I believe it would sell better than this album. It had many more radio friendly singles, and the awesome "tonight, tonight" video to help. Zeitshit is already fading away. Nothing but a video on the "tonight, tonight" scale is going to help it comeback. You guys are fooling yourselves.

Thats because you're an idiot.

Can't argue with you there.

Nothing but a video on the "tonight, tonight" scale is going to help it comeback. You guys are fooling yourselves.

Do videos even matter anymore? Sometimes they just seem like a formality, something a band is just expected to do for a single.

And adore, you're not an idiot. Don't say that about yourself.

Can't argue with you there.

Can't argue with me on the rest of my post either, so learn to stop upping your post count by adding nothing to the conversation in every thread you post in.

I'm not trying to argue, I was just bringing up a point.

And adore, you're not an idiot. Don't say that about yourself.

Well, we're all idiots, some more than others, but I was just trying to make Esty feel special.

And as for my post count, I could really care less about that. Adding nothing to conversatinos, yeah, that is true. I've only been active since June, so I've not gotten a huge netphoria ego yet.

Do videos even matter anymore? Sometimes they just seem like a formality, something a band is just expected to do for a single.

And adore, you're not an idiot. Don't say that about yourself.


A perfect example of what a great word of mouth, attention grabbing video can do is Ok Go's "here we go" video. AKA: the one where they walk/dance on the threadmills. That got them a bunch of exposure, and probably helped sell more albums/concert tickets/ etc, they normally wouldn't have for that album.

Adore is an idiot. The person brings nothing to the table. He has one thought and then just regurgitates the same thing about 4 more times in the same thread, usually in one sentence thoughts. Most of his post are like this.

Well, we're all idiots, some more than others, but I was just trying to make Esty feel special.

And as for my post count, I could really care less about that. Adding nothing to conversatinos, yeah, that is true. I've only been active since June, so I've not gotten a huge netphoria ego yet.
I took that point about the post count as a 'knock' against me, not you kiddo! I know I post a lot of non-sense... that's just how it is for me. I guess I just see something like a message board and my time with friends 'in real life' as a time to kick back and laugh. I have a job & responsibilities that I have to be serious about- I don't want to take something like this too seriously.

esty, could you do me a gigantic favor and stop calling me a "he?" Thanks.

I forgot netphoria was such a serious place for discussion... my bad, I'll raise my hand next time.

I really don't care what your gender is. You can be an "it" for all I know. It doesn't really matter.

Smashkin, I have nothing against you,...yet.

A perfect example of what a great word of mouth, attention grabbing video can do is Ok Go's "here we go" video. AKA: the one where they walk/dance on the threadmills. That got them a bunch of exposure, and probably helped sell more albums/concert tickets/ etc, they normally wouldn't have for that album.

Adore is an idiot. The person brings nothing to the table. He has one thought and then just regurgitates the same thing about 4 more times in the same thread, usually in one sentence thoughts. Most of his post are like this.

I thought over my answer I wrote about before I posted it... and the ok go video was the only video I could think of lately that made an impact. Most videos as of late are same-old-shit. And I know there are other channels people watch videos on (like fuse) but MTV is the big one... and I can't tell you the last time I have seen a video on that channel (but then again, I don't watch it much.)

Adore has made some good/funny/insightful posts. She's enjoying herself here (as am I) She really is a good egg.

Thanks smashkin, but you don't have to worry about defending me. I'd like it if everyone here got along with me, but that isn't how it works. It's true, I do post a lot of nonsense, and I do repeat myself. At least I admit it! Some people just don't like me. It happens!

I thought over my answer I wrote about before I posted it... and the ok go video was the only video I could think of lately that made an impact. Most videos as of late are same-old-shit. And I know there are other channels people watch videos on (like fuse) but MTV is the big one... and I can't tell you the last time I have seen a video on that channel (but then again, I don't watch it much.)

Exactly, which is all I said. The only thing thats going to save zeit from just falling off the face of the earth in one month, is that kind of video. Nothing else.

Adore has made some good/funny/insightful posts. She's enjoying herself here (as am I) She really is a good egg.

He's a simpleton. Nothing more, and nothing less.

I really wish you'd take the time to get to know me better, Esty. But I guess that's not how it works.

The numbers are much better than what some people predicted.

I actually expected better believe it or not.

I actually expected better believe it or not.

As much as I think he's a horses Ass, I have to agree with esty on this one. I think some of you are being overly optimistic in thinking that these are good sales. I don't think they are that good at all. I hope like all of you that it will change in the fall. And don't think for a second that Billy is happy with this either.

I think some of you are being overly optimistic in thinking that these are good sales.

You're probably right about that, actually. But I guess being a teenager surrounded by people who don't even know who SP are except for the select few who've heard "Rat in a Cage," I was actually amazed that it hit #1 worldwide... I dont have much contact with the generation that were my age when SP had their first go-around, so I guess I'm just happy anyone is listening. I realize now that those expectations are ridiculously low, but what can I say?

But I guess being a teenager

No wonder you're dumb as shit. This explains everything.

lol.

http://www.jansworld.net/thebillys/images/billy-corgan.jpg

yummy.

How long has it been, Esty?

Esty has been busy licking anus.

How long has it been, Esty?

Do I know you?

Esty has been busy licking anus.

The only asshole licking around here comes from the zeitgiest lovers. Boy, do they love the taste of shit.

Do I know you?

You asked me that the last time I replied to one of your posts.

To answer your question: No, but you're infamous here, remember?

To answer your question: No

Then you're not worth another reply.

Thank god.

I love you Esty

wishful thinking. no ones gonna get into anything off zeitgeist. best case scenario would be bring the light as the second single.... didnt happen.

I think your right...TTW is too safe and will drop off quickly. They need to take a chance and Bring the Light! It's catch and I think would have more staying power, plus it has a kick ass solo!!

guess pretty soon we'll find out where SP lands on the chart for last week.
guessing it'll be hard to find out exactly how many units were sold. will have to guestimate it based on how other albums sold this week and how albums sold in the past that appeared at whatever spot they appear on.

if anybody gets a number of copies sold, post it, k?

figures from other bands for this week so far...

10 39,000

42 15,000
55 12,000
58 11,000
62 10,000
64 10,000

gonna give an early guess that SP will be higher than #42. if not, certainly higher than #55

You can find top 50 weekly sales here.

http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

is it true that billy vowed to stop making records if kanye west sold more records than him the first week?

kanye west will sell more than 150,000 copies of his new album which drops on Sep. 11th, that's for sure

kanye west will sell more than 150,000 copies of his new album which drops on Sep. 11th, that's for sure
did you hear about the whole fiddy cent/kanye 'fued'?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1501119/story.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10457611

did you hear about the whole fiddy cent/kanye 'fued'?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1501119/story.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10457611

I hope Kayne wins that bet. 50 Cent is obnoxious.

I hope Kayne wins that bet. 50 Cent is obnoxious.
i have a feeling 50 will be eating his words.. last i heard kanye was winning in the presale dept.

Billy shoulda had this war with interpol

yea I caught that story earlier,

makes you wonder if Kanye really will outsell him, 50's promotion for his album has been fucked from day 1

he has no real 1st single, he has like 5 videos out for his album and it's not even out, and some of them have been out for months because his album was delayed


FLOP! *crosses fingers*

i have a feeling 50 will be eating his words.. last i heard kanye was winning in the presale dept.

Billy shoulda had this war with interpol

So mean.

billy woulda won!

US Sales


1 #2 146,000
2 #12 37,000 -74%
3 #22 26,000 -29.7%
4 #29 20,831 -19.9%
5 #40 15,376 -26.2%
___________________
TOTAL 245,207

will have WORLD sales up tomorrow with comparisons

still top 50. huge drop, of course. but still top 50 ;)

final #'s for week 5. every week from here on out will be harder to get good numbers. but i'll try it as long as i'm able to get decent enough figures to be able to make educated guesses.

US SALES

week 1 #2 146,000
week 2 #12 37,000 (-74.7%)
week 3 #22 26,000 (-29.7%)
week 4 #29 20,831 (-19.9%)
week 5 #40 15,376 (-26.2%)
___________________
TOTAL 245,207

WORLD SALES
week 1 (1) 244,000
week 2 (7) 120,000 (-51.9%)
week 3 (16) 87,000 (-27.5%)
week 4 (23) 69,000 (-20.7%)
week 5 (24) 57,000 (-17.4%)
______
Total 520,000

US SALES vs WORLD SALES
% of world sales being US
week 1 59.4%
week 2 30.8%
week 3 29.9%
week 4 28.9%
week 5 26.9%
_______
from totals
47.2%
///////////////////

if projections hold out, week 6 would have US sales of about 11,500 and world sales of about 44,000. would be good for chart positions of #55 and #31 for the US and world, respectively. course that's IF the sales drops hold steady. at some point, it's gotta stabilize right? probably when it gets to 200 albums a week i guess lol

It only dropped one spot this week worldwide? Neat-o.

Who really cares about where they rank? I'm sure billy would rather like a million seller already, and be ranked 100 in the list. These are terrible numbers, and you fucks keep talking about "rank". Please, this is over with. Its not even going to reach gold in the us for at least 2 years at this rate.

Who really cares about where they rank? I'm sure billy would rather like a million seller already, and be ranked 100 in the list. These are terrible numbers, and you fucks keep talking about "rank". Please, this is over with. Its not even going to reach gold in the us for at least 2 years at this rate.

Slow and steady wins the race...?

Yeah, no.

I'm not talking about what Billy wants, I'm saying I think for me personally it's cool to see it only dropped one spot.

I'm starting to think it dropped so far because stores haven't been stocking it or ordering more copies. I still haven't bought the album and I went looking around a few record stores today and didn't see a single copy. Heck, a couple stores (both were HMVs) didn't have ANY Pumpkins albums. Weird.

Do these sales take online sales and digital sales into account? All I know is the system here is rather flawed. Machina was denied #1 spot even though it topped every state chart bar Victoria by AC/DC in what the papers called "strange" and one article pointed out that a lot of sales would have come from stores like Sanity which would be more likely to stock the album but it doesn't count towards the Australian sales charts. I don't know if it's still the case though.

I'm starting to think it dropped so far because stores haven't been stocking it or ordering more copies. I still haven't bought the album and I went looking around a few record stores today and didn't see a single copy. Heck, a couple stores (both were HMVs) didn't have ANY Pumpkins albums. Weird.

Or it could be the album is just not that good.

I'll bet that's it.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Albums&f=The+Billboard+200

Billboard 200

1. UGK - Underground Kings
2. Plies - The Real Testament
3. Various Artists - Now 25
4. Miley Cyrus - Hannah Montana 2
5. Jonas Brothers - Jonas Brothers.

Etc.

The "It's not selling well because it sucks" argument is shot down by the fact that an album doesn't have to be good to sell really well...

US SALES

week 1 #2 146,000
week 2 #12 37,000 (-74.7%)
week 3 #22 26,000 (-29.7%)
week 4 #29 20,831 (-19.9%)
week 5 #40 15,376 (-26.2%)
week 6 #50 13,112 (-14.7%)
___________________
TOTAL 258,319

US SALES
TOTAL 258,319

:rofl:

:rofl:
because the best albums at the ones on top of the billboard right?

is that really bad? what are other bands selling these days? What do you guys think when the new single comes out..... !

:(

258,000 sucks balls. Unfortunately, another SP album bites the dust. The good old days are gone. COMMERCIAL FAILURE

Sadly the Pumpkins are irrevelant to most of the world.

because the best albums at the ones on top of the billboard right?

No, they don't deserve those sales, but zeitgiest is selling exactly what it should. If not for bills little rainbow edition scam, it would be lower.

Fuck off costra.

Fortunately the Pumpkins are irrevelant to most of the world.
<dfd>

Sadly the Pumpkins are irrevelant to most of the world.
I think following record sales is becoming irrevelant to most of the world.

No, they don't deserve those sales, but zeitgiest is selling exactly what it should. If not for bills little rainbow edition scam, it would be lower.

Fuck off costra.
its selling what it should? what the fuck are you even talking about?

Whoever thinks record sales mean anything these days is a retard.

I'm with Garski.

Of course... had Zeitgeist sold millions by now, I'd be bouncing off the walls with glee... so I guess I kinda contradict myself.

The point is, it's nice to see when an artist you love becomes commercially successful, especially when it's Billy, because it seems to be so important to him. But it's never REALLY about that, I don't think. I like Zeitgeist, I'm thrilled that the Pumpkins are back, just because Zeit's not selling tremendously doesn't mean this reunion has been a total failure (though some would argue that is has)

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/image.php?u=249&dateline=1181013721">

is he trying to hug him?

awwww

Year Zero has sold like 400,000 and some people consider that album a success. Rock albums, excluding Nickelback or Linkin Park, will not go gold this day and age. And those bands are shit.

i have mine on itunes and gave both my ltd ed and regular versions away to friends. :P

Year Zero has sold like 400,000 and some people consider that album a success. Rock albums, excluding Nickelback or Linkin Park, will not go gold this day and age. And those bands are shit.

truth

Who really cares about where they rank? I'm sure billy would rather like a million seller already, and be ranked 100 in the list. These are terrible numbers, and you fucks keep talking about "rank". Please, this is over with. Its not even going to reach gold in the us for at least 2 years at this rate.
FUCK THIS SHIT FAG

its selling what it should? what the fuck are you even talking about?

Yeah, its selling like shit. Quit being stupid costra.

so, if it were a good album, it would sell well right? because records sales have been functioning in an ideal fashion just like that, right? the good albums sell well and the bad ones, poorly. right?

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Albums&f=The+Billboard+200

quit being stupid you fucking troll

you can't use record sales on the whole as an argument here, as the market is pretty obviously segmented.

e.g. whether a rock album will sell because it's "good" is not necessarily dependent on whether a pop record will sell because it's "good".

rock listeners might be more susceptible to advertising; pop listeners might be more susceptible to popularity. maybe both groups are on the whole oblivious to quality; who knows. there doesn't seem to be a prima facie case either way

I'm the only one in my "social circle" who purchased Zeitgeist... but I sure know a lot of people who DOWNLOAD IT. That's what kids do these days. Who wants to buy something they can get for free. Yes this is a simple answer, but I feel it's relevant.

so, if it were a good album, it would sell well right?

It may not "sell well" but it would sell better, I'm confident in that. It's a crap album by a band that's a shell of it's former self that the public no longer gives a fuck about. If the audience wasn't fooled by Tarantula it won't be fooled by anything else on the album. But I'm sure some better songs would have changed some of that.

Better reviews, better word of mouth, better buzz....it may not be a huge amount of sales but it must all add up to *something*.

Whoever thinks record sales mean anything these days is a retard.

by the way i think you just called billy a retard

by the way i think you just called billy a retard

well it means something to him because he's the one making money off of them. I meant the general public/fans who use it to justify how 'good' an album.

OBVS.

It may not "sell well" but it would sell better, I'm confident in that. It's a crap album by a band that's a shell of it's former self that the public no longer gives a fuck about. If the audience wasn't fooled by Tarantula it won't be fooled by anything else on the album. But I'm sure some better songs would have changed some of that.

Better reviews, better word of mouth, better buzz....it may not be a huge amount of sales but it must all add up to *something*.

Tarantula is still in the top 10 on the Billboard Charts and debuted at #2 so to say that song was a failure is wrong. It still gets steady play on stations so people like the song but people just dont buy albums anymore.

It may not "sell well" but it would sell better, I'm confident in that. It's a crap album by a band that's a shell of it's former self that the public no longer gives a fuck about. If the audience wasn't fooled by Tarantula it won't be fooled by anything else on the album. But I'm sure some better songs would have changed some of that.

Better reviews, better word of mouth, better buzz....it may not be a huge amount of sales but it must all add up to *something*.

Than what's the specific amount of records an album needs to sell before it can be deemed evidence of it being good rather than sucky ravenguy?

Yeah but how many albums has Billy recorded in a row that haven't sold now? Like, a lot?

Sure the downturn in the industry as a whole can explain some loss in sales but saying

people just dont buy albums anymore

is convenient for SP fans when the truth is the public just not caring would have been the first nail in Zeitgeist's coffin with the lack of good songs being the second. Some awesome SP tunes would have gotten a lot more people to buy the album but on Zeit there's just way too few of them.

Maybe not going platinum or close to it at a reasonable amount of time, I could attribute to a weak time for album sales. Not even going gold any time soon? It's a crap album no one cares about, and people realized that as soon as they heard the songs and read the reviews and talked to their friends about it.

Than what's the specific amount of records an album needs to sell before it can be deemed evidence of it being good rather than sucky ravenguy?

This is stupid and you know that's not what I'm saying. My point was better songs would have sold more albums. How much more I don't know but I'm sure it would have been "more."

This is stupid and you know that's not what I'm saying. My point was better songs would have sold more albums. How much more I don't know but I'm sure it would have been "more."

It seems to me you are trying to use record sales as a means to justify your own personal opinion without taking responsibility for it. Had Zeigeist sold, let's say, two-hundred thousand more copies, you could just as easily be talking about how its evidence of Zeitgeist being pandering and commercial and proof that people who like it are brainwashed fools. You've rigged the discussion so that you can't possibly be wrong.

My own personal opinion is that the album is lousy. I also think that's the opinion of a lot of other people. I think the sad state of the industry can be attributed a lot to the poor album sales but I also think if the album were better it would be selling better.

I could personally give a shit how much the album sells. I have no idea how much any of my favorite albums from this year have sold. But to hear people chalk it all up to "people just don't buy albums anymore" I can't help but say "Well, it sucks, too, that might have a little bit to do with it."

My own personal opinion is that the album is lousy. I also think that's the opinion of a lot of other people. I think the sad state of the industry can be attributed a lot to the poor album sales but I also think if the album were better it would be selling better.

I could personally give a shit how much the album sells. I have no idea how much any of my favorite albums from this year have sold.

If you don't give a shit than why are you gloating over Zeitgeists sales than? Why does the quality of Zeitgeist have a relationship with the amount of sales if the same doesn't hold true for your favorite albums? Because you like them?

If you don't give a shit than why are you gloating over Zeitgeists sales than? Why does the quality of Zeitgeist have a relationship with the amount of sales if the same doesn't hold true for your favorite albums?

I'm not gloating. Like I said, I could really give a shit. It doesn't matter to me.
Also, I'm not suggesting that the quality of an album is some sort of direct ratio to how much it sells, that's retarded. My suggestion was that if the album were better, "better" not just being my own assessment but that of myself, critics, fans, the public, whatever, whoever, it would perhaps be selling better. The soft industry can't be totally to blame because there's more to it than that, especially when the numbers, to me, look so abysmal. By the same token, perhaps SD or MCIS wouldn't have sold as well if they weren't as good.

This will be the end of the Pumpkins. It's just a matter of time before Billy says, "It's just not working out like I thought." Mark my words. He can't handle it.

I'm not gloating. Like I said, I could really give a shit. It doesn't matter to me.
Also, I'm not suggesting that the quality of an album is some sort of direct ratio to how much it sells, that's retarded. My suggestion was that if the album were better, "better" not just being my own assessment but that of myself, critics, fans, the public, whatever, whoever, it would perhaps be selling better. The soft industry can't be totally to blame because there's more to it than that, especially when the numbers, to me, look so abysmal. By the same token, perhaps SD or MCIS wouldn't have sold as well if they weren't as good.

Siamese Dream benifited from being a part of the early 90's alternative rock machine. It fit comfortably between copies of Ten and Nevermind in era where angst and guitars were in. Mellon Collie sales were largely driven by teenagers on the strenght of some hit singles and very impressive videos. But hell, you know fickle how teenagers are, they don't really care about albums and you can't tell me most of the kids who bought Mellon Collie sat through the whole two hours of it more than once. Us die-hards did, but most bought it for Bullet, or Zero or 1979. A great moment in time, but a lot more went into the success of those projects than their actual quality... So along comes Zeitgeist, on the heels of Velvet Revolver, Audioslave and Zwan (90's nostaglia sort of bands that got lot of hype and media support and left everybody feeling underwhelmed). A new Pumpkins album, twelve years after the Pumpkins last mainstream smash is going to be greeted with a lot of skepticism and cynicism and apathy, especially from criticts who, once upon a time, championed MSOTS as a major comeback for Corgan. Another force acting against the album is that the demographic that was buying Pumpkin albums in the past is all grown up, either durastically changing their tastes in the process, or simply not caring about music beyond what the radio plays for them. Certantly today's teenagers aren't going to give a shit, and thats the one demographic that could fully tolerate Billy's voice in the past, so I wouldn't say Zeitgeist sales are all that suprising. Tarantula and That's the Way are as good as most singles the band ever put out. I'd put them above Bullet and Today, and if for the sake of argument you agreed with me, there'd still be no chance in hell they'd do for Zeitgeist what those songs did for their respective albums. The industry isn't the only thing that's changed. The culture has.

When it comes down to it though, I think the real reason Billy hasn't, and never will have another major hit album again is because people can't stand his voice. It's as simple as that. Unless he either wrote another 1979 or simply rehashed it the Pumpkins have had their moment in the spotlight and like most mainstream bands only get to have that once. Not really a big deal. Perhaps in spite of all this Zeitgeist can be considered a commercial faliure, it is after all, a commercial album, but you are still trying to raitionalize your dislike of the album by pointing to album sales, while in the same breath claiming that you aren't.

I guess I'm still missing the part where I try to rationalize my dislike of any album based on anything more than my own subjective opinions. I mean the second I heard doomsday clock i said "wow this is laughably bad" and got all sorts of shit for it. long before any sales numbers came out.

Maybe i'm not expressing myself as clearly as I could be but I think you're trying to find a lot of stuff in my thought processes that just aren't there at all.

RE: that stuff you just said.

It may not "sell well" but it would sell better, I'm confident in that. It's a crap album by a band that's a shell of it's former self that the public no longer gives a fuck about.

Something like this clearly gives away the inference that you are mocking the albums quality via the "lol sales suck" approach. I'm not saying that you think it's bad because sales are bad. That would be retarded. Hell, my initial reaction to DC was probably worse than yours. I'm just saying that you are rationalizing your dislike of Zeitgeist by using sales as an excuse to place the Pumpkins (*cough* Billy) on a guillotine, effectively only so you can talk more about how the album sucks. It's mean spirited because the only way to refute that is to for some asshole to say something like "Briteney Spears" and feel like some asshole. If it were "the album would sell better if it were better" than that's a fairly innocous comment. But instead it's followed by a left hook to the crotch, revealing your sadistic motives.

The reason I brought up the band being a former shell of itself is because I like to think producing some good songs would have been one of the few things Billy could have done to have actually combated that, and actually moved records.

You know, the same way I think if Britney Spears could come up with a good single (ideally, more than one, obviously) she could sell records again, despite her recent behavior. Maybe it's just a case of me still holding onto some idealism regarding the CD buying public that you don't.

US Sales


1 #2 146,091
2 #12 37,158 -74%
3 #22 26,396 -28.9%
4 #29 20,831 -21%
5 #40 15,376 -26.2%
6 #50 13,112 -14.7%
___________________
TOTAL 258,964

will have WORLD sales up tomorrow with comparisons

so, if it were a good album, it would sell well right? because records sales have been functioning in an ideal fashion just like that, right? the good albums sell well and the bad ones, poorly. right?

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Albums&f=The+Billboard+200

quit being stupid you fucking troll

How many times must I tell you that a shit album, except for a few exceptions now and then, will sell like a shit album should.

Ravenguy just pretty much summed up what I have been saying. Don't put the blame on the state that things are now. The album sold poorly because it was a poor album. End of fucking story asswipe.

How many times must I tell you that a shit album, except for a few exceptions now and then, will sell like a shit album should.

Ravenguy just pretty much summed up what I have been saying. Don't put the blame on the state that things are now. The album sold poorly because it was a poor album. End of fucking story asswipe.

That was probably the worst retort of all time. Wow.

Yet, it still ranks way above anything you've ever posted.

you usually get no more than 1 response from me scooter, don't get greedy. you gotta kiss the neck before you can fuck

Oh costra, I could give a shit if you ever give me any "attention". Go back to jagging off to your dads playboys.

wah!!

I wonder how many people bought multiple color editions, and how much the sales are padded because of it.

no actual data behind this, but i'd be shocked it it were more than 15,000

you gotta kiss the neck before you can fuck

:hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :hurl:

How many times must I tell you that a shit album, except for a few exceptions now and then, will sell like a shit album should.

Ravenguy just pretty much summed up what I have been saying. Don't put the blame on the state that things are now. The album sold poorly because it was a poor album. End of fucking story asswipe.

So if I am to understand you correctly than by your analysis every album in history that sold poorly was a shit album?

you're givin it up too easy! make them work for it. you deserve it.

So if I am to understand you correctly than by your analysis every album in history that sold poorly was a shit album?

I did say, there are exceptions, like when a shit album sells great. If zeitgiest had sold well, I would lump it up there with the all of britneys spears albums that have sold well. Then there are times, when a great album, sells poorly. Adore being one.

Sometimes, there is justice, and a piece of shit like Zietgiest, sells like a piece of shit.

Understand?

I think it's more the rule than the exception there chief.

I did say, there are exceptions, like when a shit album sells great. If zeitgiest had sold well, I would lump it up there with the all of britneys spears albums that have sold well. Then there are times, when a great album, sells poorly. Adore being one.

Sometimes, there is justice, and a piece of shit like Zietgiest, sells like a piece of shit.

Understand?

http://www.vocabulary.co.il/

That hangman game looks like fun.

I did say, there are exceptions, like when a shit album sells great. If zeitgiest had sold well, I would lump it up there with the all of britneys spears albums that have sold well. Then there are times, when a great album, sells poorly. Adore being one.

Sometimes, there is justice, and a piece of shit like Zietgiest, sells like a piece of shit.

Understand?

Could it be that your a piece of shit and are racist against ur own kind?

looks like with the high sales figures we will get a new record in the future!

I hate them niggers, I do.

I hate them niggers, I do.

they new well enough to not buy zeitgeist

That hangman game looks like fun.


it is fun, the kitty didn't eated me!

they new well enough to not buy zeitgeist

That why billy dun hate them to!

Guys I just got a phone call from alonso in hollywood: Zeitgeist is #1 on the charts!!! he says people cant get enough, the switchboards are lighted up with zeitgeist requests!!! he says there's a movie deal even! WOW. we made it guys! congrats billy C, you'er a star now, kid!!

r u serius?

Guys I just got a phone call from alonso in hollywood: Zeitgeist is #1 on the charts!!! he says people cant get enough, the switchboards are lighted up with zeitgeist requests!!! he says there's a movie deal even! WOW. we made it guys! congrats billy C, you'er a star now, kid!!

post of the year right there