WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Senate passed an energy bill late Thursday that *******s an increase in automobile fuel economy, new laws against energy price-gouging and a requirement for huge increases in the production of ethanol.

In an eleventh-hour compromise fashioned after two days of closed-door meetings, an agreement was reached to increase average fuel economy by 40 percent to 35 miles per gallon for cars, SUVs and pickup trucks by 2020.

But the fuel economy issue threatened to topple the legislation up to the last minute. Majority Leader Harry Reid held off the vote until late into the evening so several senators could be called back to Capitol Hill to provide the 60-vote margin needed to overcome a threatened filibuster from pro-auto industry senators.

Shortly before midnight, senators voted 62-32 to cut off debate, and followed by passing the bill 65-27. The measure now awaits action by the House, which is expected to take it up next week. But attempts to combine the two bills and send legislation to President Bush probably won't be possible until later this year.

It would be the first increase in vehicle fuel efficiency since the current 22.7 mpg for cars was put in place in 1989 and the first time Congress has imposed a new auto efficiency mandate in 32 years.

Supporters said the new requirement would save 2.5 million barrels of oil a day by 2025, when large numbers of the more fuel-stingy cars will be on the road.

Republicans complained that the energy bill is tilted too much toward renewables and fuel efficiency and does nothing to boost domestic oil or natural gas production.

But its supporters said it reflects a shift to new energy priorities, away from promoting fossil fuels to supporting other energy sources such wind and biomass to make electricity and ethanol to power cars and trucks.

"This bill starts America on a path toward reducing our reliance on oil," declared Reid.

But Democrats didn't get all that they wanted.

Republicans blocked Democratic efforts to pass a $32 billion package of tax incentives for renewable energy and clean fuels, objecting to increasing taxes on oil companies by $29 billion over 10 years to pay for it.

Democrats also were unable to ******* in the bill a requirement for electric utilities to produce at least 15 percent of their electricity from renewable fuels such as wind and biomass. Senators from the South objected, saying the region couldn't meet such a standard, and Republicans refused to let the measure come up for a vote.

But the legislation provides a bonanza to farmers and the ethanol industry. It requires ethanol production to grow to at least 36 billion gallon a year by 2022, a sevenfold increase of the amount of ethanol processed last year.

The legislation also calls for:

• Price gouging provisions that make it unlawful to charge an "unconscionably excessive" price for oil products including gasoline and give the federal government new authority to investigate oil industry market manipulation.

• New appliance and lighting efficiency standards and a requirement that the federal government accelerate use of more efficient lighting in public buildings.

• Grants, loan guarantees and other assistance to promote research into fuel efficient vehicles, including hybrids, advanced diesel and battery technologies. percent ethanol or biodiesel fuels.

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Discuss.

It's too bad the republicans blocked the tax on the oil companies. That money could of really helped get america off it's oil addiction.

It's too bad the republicans blocked the tax on the oil companies. That money could of really helped get america off it's oil addiction.

The bottom line is, as long as the U.S. is addicted to oil, the Middle East has the country by the balls. It'll be at least another generation before the U.S. is "detoxed" from oil significantly, but this is a step in the right direction.

In an eleventh-hour compromise fashioned after two days of closed-door meetings, an agreement was reached to increase average fuel economy by 40 percent to 35 miles per gallon for cars, SUVs and pickup trucks by 2020.

Man, why didn't they think of this before? I forgot that the way to increase fuel efficiency is just to speak it into existence. Dumb car companies.


But the legislation provides a bonanza to farmers and the ethanol industry. It requires ethanol production to grow to at least 36 billion gallon a year by 2022, a sevenfold increase of the amount of ethanol processed last year.

Corporate welfare for American farmers. Awesome for starving people in the third world!

• Price gouging provisions that make it unlawful to charge an "unconscionably excessive" price for oil products including gasoline and give the federal government new authority to investigate oil industry market manipulation.

Have fun getting fuel or energy in an emergency.

• New appliance and lighting efficiency standards and a requirement that the federal government accelerate use of more efficient lighting in public buildings.

I actually don't mind this.

• Grants, loan guarantees and other assistance to promote research into fuel efficient vehicles, including hybrids, advanced diesel and battery technologies. percent ethanol or biodiesel fuels.

More corporate welfare. Super-duper!

• Price gouging provisions that make it unlawful to charge an "unconscionably excessive" price for oil products including gasoline and give the federal government new authority to investigate oil industry market manipulation.




if they actually put this to use and it causes me to get stuck in an artificially-created long line at a gas station there's going to be hell to pay.

if they actually put this to use and it causes me to get stuck in an artificially-created long line at a gas station there's going to be hell to pay.

I actually have a legitimate concern. The Oregon coast is very risky for tsunamis and with such little warning I would need to be able to get gas and get out. If the stations aren't allowed to raise their prices to, say, $15-$20 a gallon, either the lines will be too long or there will not be enough gas for everyone to get out.

Burning fossil fuels is not going to cause the statue of liberty’s feet to be underwater. No body likes pollution, but I don’t think we have a choice right now. The technology does not exist for all of us to be driving hydrogen cars and having wind, fission, or solar power heating and cooling our homes. We need fossil fuels.

And giving gazillions of dollars to technology companies is not going to speed up the process of finding alternates. So stop calling for higher fucking taxes!

We are being punished for using fossil fuels. The democrats wont let us build new refineries, drill on our own property, or build nuclear power plants either.

I think that we should build new refineries, drill in Alaska, and go nuclear. Fuck the environmentalist wackos. PEOPLE COME FIRST, the environment comes second.

“O but if we ruin the environment we wont have a place to live, mother earth, mother earth.” Fuck the religion that is environmentalism which is spawned from liberalism. You people go way too far. And fuck the cariboo.

We would not have to depend on the fucking middle east if we where allowed to go find oil else where. And we have SO much coal in this county and we can burn it now in a clean way. The democrats are stopping us from expanding.

“O nuclear power is so dangerous, three mile island” Nuclear is very safe and very clean. A dozen plants would drastically reduce are dependance on middle eastern oil. But no the libs wont let us build them.

It wont be long till we have alternate cleaner energy, but until then I want to pay a dollar for a gallon of gas. I don’t hate big oil like you, I hate our government taxing the piss out of it. They don’t find it, they don’t drill it, they don’t refine it, they don’t ship it. They just hold out their hand.
The more taxes my government gets the more powerful, the more tyrannical my government is. The less money my government has the happier I am.

im in favor of mileage requirements and laws against "energy gouging", but this ethanol business is garbage. until they make a car that actually runs well off ethanol they shouldnt be pushing it or diluting your gasoline with it. it just saps performance and wastes tax dollars.

and power should be nuclear and run by either heavily regulated companies or the government. as it is on the one hand we're dumping tax money into shitty wind or solar projects and on the other hand electricity is privatized and these corporate pirates overcharge the customer for huge profits or to pay for their inefficiencies. then they go and build more coal plants because it's wiser from a profit standpoint than a nuclear plant which doesnt turn a profit until years down the line because the cost is construction not fuel.

and power should be nuclear

Agreed. Imagine if we would have went nuclear back in the 70's. You have to wonder if we'd be even using much gas at all by this point.

Our home electricity is nuclear-powered greatness.

PEOPLE COME FIRST, the environment comes second.



inextricable

Man, why didn't they think of this before? I forgot that the way to increase fuel efficiency is just to speak it into existence. Dumb car companies.
Yeah. Congress is really selling us short here. Only 35 mpg? I think they should make it a law that all cars get, like, 200 mpg! And they also need to get cracking on that whole flying car thing. Congress should probably make a law about that to get that on track as well.

you guys realize that fuel economy standards of other countries are significantly above that right? im saying that those standards arent pie in the sky or something, theyre totally reasonable modern standards. actually achieving them is a not the issue here, its only the costs of reorienting production that car companies are afraid of. this is the least the government could do on this.

But the legislation provides a bonanza to farmers and the ethanol industry. It requires ethanol production to grow to at least 36 billion gallon a year by 2022, a sevenfold increase of the amount of ethanol processed last year.


Since I bet this benefits corn ethanol more than cellulose ethanol... a bad idea.

It could be interesting at least to see how a significant rise in the cost of corn thanks to demand for ethanol would change food production. No more cheap high fructose corn syrup in everything.

Our home electricity is nuclear-powered greatness.


I want the power of the atom powering my computer screen too!

The United States produces the most nuclear energy, with nuclear power providing 20% of the electricity it consumes. It should be eighty percent like France. They don't have to depend on the Arabs.

Dark green means we are building more. No thanks to environmental wackos.

It's too bad the republicans blocked the tax on the oil companies. That money could of really helped get america off it's oil addiction.
Fuck, go back to school

you guys realize that fuel economy standards of other countries are significantly above that right? im saying that those standards arent pie in the sky or something, theyre totally reasonable modern standards. actually achieving them is a not the issue here, its only the costs of reorienting production that car companies are afraid of. this is the least the government could do on this.

Oh no doubt. Cars are getting this all over Europe. But that is because US auto manufacturing companies have <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17344368/">successfully lobbied congress to restrict use of diesel through emissions standards</a>.

<i>In general, cars are far more fuel-efficient in Europe, where gas is much more expensive. In Europe, cars on average get 40 mpg, compared with 20.4 mpg for U.S. cars. Most European vehicles cited in the CSI study run on diesel engines, which tend to achieve greater fuel efficiency than gas engines. Selling those cars in the United States is difficult because of emission standards.
…
Another reason why many European models are not marketed in the United States is that labor unions object.</i>

You really can't have it both ways and be efficient. If you want to protect US companies, then the standards have to be low. If you want more efficient cars, then they will pollute more. What congress is doing now is just breaking the whole thing a little more.

There shouldn’t be a ‘sin’ tax on gasoline. Government should stop taxing petrol all together. If gas was at 99 cents it wouldn’t matter if our cars got twenty to the gallon. We could have are big fucking vehicles that we love. Toyota wouldn’t be upping GM. American Auto makers and thousands of jobs would stay intact. Foreign cars would be exotic and we would make fun of you for driving one.

Americans need to drive, our space is so vast. It’s not like Europe or Japan where you can take a train or walk every where. The more money we spend on gasoline the less money we have to spend on everything else. Government doesn’t deserve any money from Oil. They don’t find it, they don’t drill it, they don’t refine it, they don’t ship it.

I fucking hate taxes, the more, the more powerful my government is. But they are a necessary evil, and there should be just enough tax to repair our roads for our big fucking vehicles and enough to buy bullets to kill terrorist.

you think the only way to achieve fuel efficiency is by using diesel? this is one way, yes, but hardly the only or even the best. the japanese dont really use diesel at all and their fuel economy is like triple what it is for your average american car. and all kinds of cars in the US already come close to or surpass the new standard without diesel. im not only talking about hybrids, which can get like 50 or 60 miles per gallon, but other simply well engineered, efficient cars -- cars that arent 3 tons overweight and dont have a V8 engine or whatever dumb macho shit.

so this is not at all a choice between low standards and low pollution and high standards and high pollution, i have no idea where youre getting this idea. and, regardless, that doesnt even make any sense. on which scale would we be measuring pollution? diesel doesnt produce anywhere near as much GHGs as gasoline, but it produces more particle pollution (which isnt even as grave as it sounds, they can be very clean with the right technology in place). but even given that pollution, who is to say that getting a major increase in fuel efficiency and major decrease in GHG, but with a significant increase in particle pollution is even a bad deal overall, especially since global warming trumps air quality in principle? im not saying we do this or use this kind of calculation, but your criticism is just way off base here.

there wouldnt be enough gas to go around if people could burn it up at such a small cost to themselves. could you post a pic of yourself thinking hard, cup of mercury?

Okay

Come on, there are trillions of barrels out there. Your party won’t let us get it! I say we burn as much of that gasoline as we can, and by the time it’s gone we can all float around on our hydrogen nuclear powered floating buzz cars. And don’t give me that global warming horse shit.

you think the only way to achieve fuel efficiency is by using diesel? this is one way, yes, but hardly the only or even the best. the japanese dont really use diesel at all and their fuel economy is like triple what it is for your average american car. and all kinds of cars in the US already come close to or surpass the new standard without diesel. im not only talking about hybrids, which can get like 50 or 60 miles per gallon, but other simply well engineered, efficient cars -- cars that arent 3 tons overweight and dont have a V8 engine or whatever dumb macho shit.

Oh sure. However, if you take SUV's, large trucks and muscle cars out and you're looking at comparable data. But all that demonstrates is that americans seem to to like "power" (I use that term loosly), looks, and so on over efficiency.

I actually have a legitimate concern. The Oregon coast is very risky for tsunamis



<k>

no thats not true. there is still a gulf between the fuel economy for passenger cars in north america and the rest of the developed world and, while i havent seen the data, im sure a similar gulf exists for trucks and SUV's (which are in another class and have their own standards).

yeah they do prefer power over efficiency, thats why regulation like this is so necessary.

Yes regulation, lets bring America down a peg or two. Put us on par with Japanese or the Europeans, yes the liberal way. Equality all around!

No. Lower or eliminate the federal and state petrol tax.

I want to drive my glorious steal red ford explorer everywhere. I want to jam it with my fishing poll, tackle box, cooler, speakers, lots of my wardrobe, my Pug and Akita, my big rubber yellow boots, all my masonry tools, and still with room to haul three of my republican comrades. That is Freedom!

I will fight to preserve this, as a rebel if need be. I do not want to be forced to buy a plastic compact pussy cart. I do not want be forced to buy a car because it gets 35 miles to the gallon. I want my great American 4x4 18mpg fuel ejected missile action high octane freedom ride!

The oil is out there fellas lets get!

I think that when Teddy saved Yellow Stone and what GW is doing giving money to places like the Great Smoky Mountains is great. But I hate environmentalist wackos! I hate their sick twisted religion. People like that killed my great grand pa the bio scientist. Why can’t he inject monkeys with heroin, or bunnies with TB? They shut his company down and he lost millions in stock. He died a broken man. And I am his pissed off offspring. “Product not tested on animals” Fuck that. I am at the top of the food chain, I am high and advanced, the first mammal to wear pants. I do want to take my SUV to Yellow stone lake and catch cut throat trout, I want to drive at 18mpg to the Smoky’s and look at the Elk, and buy cheap Cherokee tobacco there. I can’t even fit my Akita in a fucking toyota.

there should be just enough tax to repair our roads for our big fucking vehicles and enough to buy bullets to kill terrorist.


naw fuck that you should pay for your own damn roads and the army should be run by donation only. Taxes are evil so buy your own fucking army.



no. Don't think that's a good idea?? Well then I guess collectively pooling money from citizens to buy goods and services that benefit the country aren't such a threat to freedom after all.


Taxation is a key ingredient to a stable, fair, and prosperous society. You wouldn't be FREE without it really.

Yes regulation, lets bring America down a peg or two. Put us on par with Japanese or the Europeans, yes the liberal way. Equality all around!

No. Lower or eliminate the federal and state petrol tax.

I want to drive my glorious steal red ford explorer everywhere. I want to jam it with my fishing poll, tackle box, cooler, speakers, lots of my wardrobe, my Pug and Akita, my big rubber yellow boots, all my masonry tools, and still with room to haul three of my republican comrades. That is Freedom!

I will fight to preserve this, as a rebel if need be. I do not want to be forced to buy a plastic compact pussy cart. I do not want be forced to buy a car because it gets 35 miles to the gallon. I want my great American 4x4 18mpg fuel ejected missile action high octane freedom ride!

The oil is out there fellas lets get!

I think that when Teddy saved Yellow Stone and what GW is doing giving money to places like the Great Smoky Mountains is great.


YES regulation. let's bring the EXPLOITATION of america down a notch or two.

Also I'm curious why you support the giving of tax dollars to perserve public land. Why not just let a company buy it. That's freedom. Why do you hate government intervention but support the government telling citizens what land they can and can't buy?

ALSO. If you want to see what industry can do to a country that doesn't have or enforces environmental regulations you should go swing over to the Chinese Environmentalism topic.

The government regulation is necessary for the Quality of Life that we have in america. No one wants to drink where they shit. Too much pollution results from failure of the free market to see longterm losses for short term profits. Government intervention is needed to solve this problem and provide you with a healthy environment to live freely.

Taxation is a key ingredient to a stable, fair, and prosperous society. You wouldn't be FREE without it really.


I like how you think. But go easy on that ‘fair’ word, and speak softly of ‘collective.’
Big government bad, little government good. Taxes are a necessary evil indeed. If men where angels we wouldn’t need government.

YES regulation. let's bring the EXPLOITATION of america down a notch or two.


Yes I agree. Regulate with extreme prejudice. Enforce the border, punish those that do not respect our sovereignty.


Also I'm curious why you support the giving of tax dollars to perserve public land. Why not just let a company buy it. That's freedom. Why do you hate government intervention but support the government telling citizens what land they can and can't buy?

Okay Okay some things should be collectively owned by every one. Don’t push heath care. I want to see that Moore “Sicko” movie though. I get a kick from watching that giant socialist weasel roll around in his films. You don’t like my Hamas Compromise on the other thread?

Yes I agree. Regulate with extreme prejudice. Enforce the border, punish those that do not respect our sovereignty.

Okay Okay some things should be collectively owned by every one. Don’t push heath care. I want to see that Moore “Sicko” movie though. I get a kick from watching that giant socialist weasel’s films. You don’t like my Hamas Compromise on the other thread?


I responded to your thing in the other thread. I'm glad we can agree that public ownership is not, in principle, a bad thing. :cheers:

Cup O Mercury... shut up already... :noway: