Luke: Tarantula is a fun, harmless little rocker. You could only be let down by Tarantula if you were expecting another Tonight, Tonight or something.

Pre-order Zeitgeist and get the single immediately.

Zeitgeist with exclusive iTunes track "Stellar", 5 covers from SPIN, and Digital Booklet available for pre-order $11.99

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPreorder?id=258008145&s=143441
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1173/568358407_f4d05f8325.jpg
What is "Stellar"? Is that an SP bside? Or just a song from another band they are promoting?

this song is not perfect, but it is definitly not bad... some of the reviews i had gotten the impression it rocked so hard it would hand me my own ass, but i still like it. i agree it seems slower than it wants to be, and hearing billy back his own vocals so distinctly seems a little weird. my real problem is that the lyrics seem totally seperate and overlayed over the music. its like there is a wall between them.

the people that say this is unlistenable are the complainers.

Paris on the single cover makes perfect sense - both her and the music suck, a lot.

The irony is that I can think of a few Paris Hilton songs that I like more than this.

luke your are stupid ...
it is sooo gooodddd
well. "your are stupid" says it all, doesn't it

The irony is that I can think of a few Paris Hilton songs that I like more than this.
Ouch!
:rofl:
The stars are blind!

Machina was bad, MSTOS was bad, TFE was a travesty, Tarantula is alright, and this is awful.

How many more years should I wait? :rolleyes:
Sounds like the pumpkins aren't for you. And look at all the wasted time you spent waiting for a return. BWA-HAHA!

I think you need to stop bitching and find another band to like.


Oh, and I loved Machina.

The irony is that I can think of a few Paris Hilton songs that I like more than this.

i've never been more convinced of your homosexuality until this moment

fun, harmless little rocker.

Again, another ringing endorsement.

It's starting to seem like this isn't a matter of liking or not liking the songs, it's about how low your standards have become.

I can't get too excited about music even it's supposedly biggest fans can only describe as fun, harmless, decent, not bad, ok, good, etc.

^ no your are

i honestly like 'nothing in this world' and 'heartbeat' way better than this

edit: i mean i really like them.. i'm not just making fun of billy

Machina was bad, MSTOS was bad, TFE was a travesty, Tarantula is alright, and this is awful.

Just curious, what recent albums would you deem "good" or "great"?

I'm liking the song more and more. I love its droney coldness. A bold way to start an album.

Machina was bad, MSTOS was bad, TFE was a travesty, Tarantula is alright, and this is awful.

How many more years should I wait? :rolleyes:
I will never understand why people like you hang around just so you can rip on Corgan's latest work. If you hate his music now, that's your opinion, but you're suggesting a certain trend in his music you're feeling that you simply don't like.

Machina to now embodies everything he's done as an artist since the beginning of the decade basically. So to answer your question, how many more years you should wait? None. I say this not to be a smartass, it's to be nice if anything. If you don't like Corgan's work now, you never will, considering this is the most rockin' thing he's done in almost eight years. That's a long time. I honestly don't know what you are waiting for if you've been disappointed for so long.

I'm not drooling over Doomsday Clock either. Billy's done better songs and the vocals are a bit too high, but it's still better than any other new single you'd hear on your local modern rock Clear Channel station. I like the song. Could he have opened the album with something better? Sure. Does it mean Zeitgeist sucks and omg Corgan can't write a song to save his life and geez he's totally out of touch? No.

Also, we've heard all but two of the new songs live. Loud vocals aside, we all knew what kind of song Doomsday Clock is. Of all the new ones I've heard, it's the one that impressed me least. So I'm not sure why everyone is just freaking out now, because I'm sure most of you have heard the Paris show.

i like Tarantula but wasn't really enthralled with it. Doomsday Clock is the kind of song about which i can easily gush.

I'm liking the song more and more. I love its droney coldness. A bold way to start an album.Sounds like pumpkins recorded these big monsterous songs. I dig it.

But I must confess, I'm used to the live version's speed. But that's almost always true that the live versions are faster.

This whole thread is a big cryfest.

The reaction to Tarantula was pretty good, wasn't it? You've heard two studio tracks, maybe you should wait until the whole thing is out until you write Corgan off.

This board has the most pathetic group of "fans" ever, I swear.I agree. I just got here and I'm already thinking about leaving.

Go, then.

we're going to miss you, cokelogic!

Again, another ringing endorsement.

It's starting to seem like this isn't a matter of liking or not liking the songs, it's about how low your standards have become.

I can't get too excited about music even it's supposedly biggest fans can only describe as fun, harmless, decent, not bad, ok, good, etc.

Anyway, the Pumpkins never set the standards. While they are still my favourite band, there are many other musicians who have made greater songs or records. And yet, the feeling of every Pumpkins album has been a distinct one (up to and including Adore, that is). I'm looking forward to that feeling, not to utter brilliance. I expect that from other artists.

By the way, I endorse the record? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

That's why I didn't listen to the live version first, suckers.

Luke: Tarantula is a fun, harmless little rocker. You could only be let down by Tarantula if you were expecting another Tonight, Tonight or something.
damning with faint praise. i was expecting complete shit, and it wasn't, so i was pleasantly surprised. but that's all. the song itself isn't a triumph, and frankly i think it's totally reasonable to demand better of billy corgan than "a fun, harmless little rocker"

but it's still better than any other new single you'd hear on your local modern rock Clear Channel station.

That doesn't mean it's good.

Again with the lowered standards, that's a pretty awful reason to like a song.

are the same people done bitching yet?

That doesn't mean it's good.

Again with the lowered standards, that's a pretty awful reason to like a song.

What standards is the song failing to meet and what makes you a proper judge?

Ok, for the first time I can say I don't like it. That song isn't good, that's all. It's not like it has something in particular that I don't like, it's just the overall felling, nothing new, nothing interesting, doesn't do much for me. And the lyrics sucks.

That doesn't mean it's good.

Again with the lowered standards, that's a pretty awful reason to like a song.

Since you didn't respond to my query can we assume that you haven't found anything recent "good" or "great" in the category of a "Doomsday Clock" type song?

what makes you a proper judge?

What makes anyone a proper judge?

SpFission, how about you clear out some of your PM's?! ;)

What standards is the song failing to meet and what makes you a proper judge?

what the fuck, what makes you a proper judge of who is a proper judge?

Since you didn't respond to my query can we assume that you haven't found anything recent "good" or "great" in the category of a "Doomsday Clock" type song?

I've heard at least 40 albums from this year I'd be happy to recommend to friends or other people here.

But I'm not going to play that game here. No matter what I posted it would be met with the very predictable, very lazy "Oh well that explains it, you have awful taste so your opinion doesn't matter" crowd.

what the fuck, what makes you a proper judge of who is a proper judge?

That's the point, you tit.

eat shit and die...
you wouldnt recognize good music, if it hits you in your dumb ass
Brilliant - let's attack people who don't like a bad song!

Let's attack the non-sheep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fucking idiot - I hope you die in a fire tonight.

I've heard at least 40 albums from this year I'd be happy to recommend to friends or other people here.

But I'm not going to play that game here. No matter what I posted it would be met with the very predictable, very lazy "Oh well that explains it, you have awful taste so your opinion doesn't matter" crowd.

I'm always in for new music, so hit me. And I don't have the time to investigate (which is also part of the reason why I'm looking forward to Zeitgeist), so it'd be nice if you could save me that trouble ;)

And LOL at the "it's a harmless song", "it's fun," et al. Since when is good music harmless and fun? Why are the ones who love this so much the pussies who have lowered their standards (well to be fair Effloresce never had standards in the first place) to a very low level?

I wish the Doomsday Clock would stop ticking in this thread

i am a real-life qualified justice of the peace.

damning with faint praise. i was expecting complete shit, and it wasn't, so i was pleasantly surprised. but that's all. the song itself isn't a triumph, and frankly i think it's totally reasonable to demand better of billy corgan than "a fun, harmless little rocker"
That is most certainly not faint praise.

It's harmless and fun just like, say, Transformer. When Billy sings "she's happy as a turtle" you probably chuckled the first time you heard it too, but I love that song. Just because a song is more "fun" than harsh and serious should not imply that it's faint praise, or lowering your expectations as another fellow Netphorian has been saying lately. I'm not lowering my expectations at all. Tarantula rocks. A song doesn't have to be complex, mysterious and serious in order to be good, man. It just has to rock. Billy Corgan knows how to rock.

To be fair, Doomsday Clock is no better or worse than Zero. Really. It's one of a couple songs on any given Pumpkins album made to be more radio friendly.

i have a license or a badge or whatever we have.

THIS SONG IS FUN AND HAPPY GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif><img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif>

That is most certainly not faint praise.

It's harmless and fun just like, say, Transformer. When Billy sings "she's happy as a turtle" you probably chuckled the first time you heard it too, but I love that song. Just because a song is more "fun" than harsh and serious should not imply that it's faint praise, or lowering your expectations as another fellow Netphorian has been saying lately. I'm not lowering my expectations at all. Tarantula rocks. A song doesn't have to be complex, mysterious and serious in order to be good, man. It just has to rock. Billy Corgan knows how to rock.
<img src=http://www.zenwaiter.com/photos/indexnew/Smiley-face.gif>

I like the bit after the bit after the guitar stops when the guitar kicks in again. It's pretty cool. Not enough dynamics like that though but whatever.

If you take the song out of it's context it's a lot like cherub rock.

I've heard at least 40 albums from this year I'd be happy to recommend to friends or other people here.

None of which are remotely in the same category as this song I would bet. So what it does is temper this scathing critique you are leveling against "Doomsday Clock".


But I'm not going to play that game here. No matter what I posted it would be met with the very predictable, very lazy "Oh well that explains it, you have awful taste so your opinion doesn't matter" crowd.

No, it would just point out how you are having a typical netphorian knee-jerk reaction to a new post-1995 Billy Corgan song. Feel free to get back to your Of Montreal album or whatever it is you like so much that you won't mention it by name.

None of which are remotely in the same category as this song I would bet. So what it does is temper this scathing critique you are leveling against "Doomsday Clock".



No, it would just point out how you are having a typical netphorian knee-jerk reaction to a new post-1995 Billy Corgan song. Feel free to get back to your Of Montreal album or whatever it is you like so much that you won't mention it by name.
Genius, the reason this music sucks is because Corgan's trying to recreate his pre-1995 recordings.

IMAGINE THAT!

1995/6 billy was one of the best billys.

I will never understand why people like you hang around just so you can rip on Corgan's latest work.
i'll never understand why people stubbornly and continuously spout this rubbish. YOU DON'T LIKE IT! YOU ARE HERE ONLY TO COMPLAIN!

wrong.

it's pretty simple, effloresce. of the music that has had the biggest effect on me, this band is responsible for a large chunk. this effect is sufficiently strong that there remains a residual hope for whatever billy corgan does next, regardless of the quality of his most recent output. is it unreasonable to guess that others are in the same position? i don't think so.

you'll never see me tell someone to stop posting or attempt to insult them because they love all the new material unreservedly. it's all you guys who think that honest criticism in any form is somehow not to be desired that are the problem here. the rest of us are just calling it as we see it; that is what characterises this board. if you can't get past that (and that certainly seems to be the case), perhaps you should seek out sp discussion elsewhere.

Effloresce needs to be shot in the head.

Since when is good music harmless and fun?

Goddamn you are dumb. Well, it's been since the dawn of man.

(well to be fair Effloresce never had standards in the first place)
You are such a prick. Here I am trying to have a civil discussion with people like you about this, and you resort to arguing with me like a third grader. I do have standards, believe it or not. I'm in awe of how you continue to make all of these claims despite the fact that you barely even know me. Grow up. How old are you?

Effloresce needs to be shot in the head.
You are a sick, sad individual. A poor excuse for a human being. I need shot in the head because my opinion differs from yours. :noway:

I haven't heard it yet, but I think listening to this song in Itunes is a bad idea.

A song doesn't have to be complex, mysterious and serious in order to be good, man. It just has to rock. Billy Corgan knows how to rock.

I like Tarantula, though.

This song, in the meantime, sounds like an awful parody of something that would have ended up on the Zero single.

The vocals kill it. The guitars riff away in early smashing pumpkins riff-mode, Jimmy pounds away, and Billy's vocals sound like he can hardly care about any of it.

Here's what it sounds like. Billy is older. That is fine, people get older. But the music behind Billy's more mature vocal style at least made sense in Zwan and on TFE. This sounds like 40 year old Billy trying to front 30 year old Billy's band. And it doesn't make musical sense to my ears.

I haven't heard it yet, but I think listening to this song in Itunes is a bad idea.It's not that bad an idea.

What standards is the song failing to meet and what makes you a proper judge?

it's not about his standards, it's about the standards of the people who are satisfied with 'it could be worse' and 'at least it's better than the stuff on the radio'. billy can do so much better and that's why we're dissapointed in him. and people blindly supporting him no matter what he does, only helps keeping him from ever waking up and coming down to earth so he can get his shit together and be an artist instead of a has-been rockstar clinging desperately to his fame, going through the motions trying to imitate his former success

None of which are remotely in the same category as this song I would bet. So what it does is temper this scathing critique you are leveling against "Doomsday Clock".


But I like Tarantula. Not that Tarantula is some sort of gold standard now or something but Tarantula is leagues better than this.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

thanks for the link brendo

well it's not as bad as tarantula i don't think, but it's not good. i feel like an ass even discussing it because it's on a level so much lower than anything else the band ever did

so while it's alright, that's only because i'm comparing it to tarantula, and the other bits of things i've heard so far

You are such a prick. Here I am trying to have a civil discussion with people like you about this, and you resort to arguing with me like a third grader. I do have standards, believe it or not. I'm in awe of how you continue to make all of these claims despite the fact that you barely even know me. Grow up. How old are you?


You are a sick, sad individual. A poor excuse for a human being. I need shot in the head because my opinion differs from yours. :noway:
No, you need to be shot in the head because you're a worthless shrill who can't understand how anyone would not JUST LOVE! a new song by Billy Corgan.

I am excited to hear studio Starz and studio United States - I can hope and pray they are better than this.

Goddamn you are dumb. Well, it's been since the dawn of man.
Good music needs more standards than harmless and fun.

Good music can be harmless and fun, but harmless and fun music does not make it good.

Main riff and rhythm resemble bodies from mcis.
It's an ok song, i like the middle 8, but this and tarantula just sound like he's retreading old ground, something he's said in countless interviews he's firmly opposed to doing.

i'll never understand why people stubbornly and continuously spout this rubbish. YOU DON'T LIKE IT! YOU ARE HERE ONLY TO COMPLAIN!

wrong.

it's pretty simple, effloresce. of the music that has had the biggest effect on me, this band is responsible for a large chunk. this effect is sufficiently strong that there remains a residual hope for whatever billy corgan does next, regardless of the quality of his most recent output. is it unreasonable to guess that others are in the same position? i don't think so.

you'll never see me tell someone to stop posting or attempt to insult them because they love all the new material unreservedly. it's all you guys who think that honest criticism in any form is somehow not to be desired that are the problem here. the rest of us are just calling it as we see it; that is what characterises this board. if you can't get past that (and that certainly seems to be the case), perhaps you should seek out sp discussion elsewhere.

not that you need it, but you have my respect now.

\nn/p

oh and sppunk...you are a sick, sad individual.

i'll never understand why people stubbornly and continuously spout this rubbish. YOU DON'T LIKE IT! YOU ARE HERE ONLY TO COMPLAIN!
Some people are, though!

it's pretty simple, effloresce. of the music that has had the biggest effect on me, this band is responsible for a large chunk. this effect is sufficiently strong that there remains a residual hope for whatever billy corgan does next, regardless of the quality of his most recent output. is it unreasonable to guess that others are in the same position? i don't think so.
SP had a huge impact on me as well, and believe me I take very seriously anything they put out. I recognize that there's a difference between someone like you, and someone who just seems to bitch and moan about every little thing he does just because they're so consistently fed up. At that point it's time to let go, what's the point in continuing to complain? I'm sure your concerns are valid and not just to be a prick, but I still think you are setting the bar too high. Zwan's live show, and TheFutureEmbrace as a whole were pretty awesome. Zeitgeist seems like it will be a great record as well. I can't understand why you are so pissed all of the sudden, we all knew what Doomsday Clock sounds like thanks to bootlegs. Hell, we even knew what the tempo and vocals were like from that stupid youtube promo clip.

you'll never see me tell someone to stop posting or attempt to insult them because they love all the new material unreservedly. it's all you guys who think that honest criticism in any form is somehow not to be desired that are the problem here. the rest of us are just calling it as we see it; that is what characterises this board. if you can't get past that (and that certainly seems to be the case), perhaps you should seek out sp discussion elsewhere.
You can call it as you see it, but what I'm saying is that if you consistently see it as something bad, why even bother? I know how big of an impact SP has made on people. Yet if you get to the point where you personally made a decision that Billy Corgan isn't as good as he used to be and will never get better, why continue to complain? He's not going to change. And I really don't think that, as a whole, he's lost his touch or is a bad artist. Are you expecting it to be like 1993 again? Even Corgan said in an interview in '05 that you won't be getting that again. And, quite frankly, how could you (or better yet, WHY would you) expect him to turn out another Siamese Dream? You can't make that album twice.

It's kinda dumb seeing zeitgeist songs as him trying to imitate his former success. He's a pretty genuine guy. He's just all screwed up.

it's all you guys who think that honest criticism in any form is somehow not to be desired that are the problem here. .

Well, there's a difference between honest criticism and saying that if you like this song your standards are craptastic.

Honest criticism is healthy (and most Pumpkins fans are blind to it) but here it is often confused with cynicism.

Billy's just not the same artist he was 10 years ago, at the height of his career. His creative output of the last 7 years has consisted of poppy-sounding, straightforward songs. So I don't really know why you'd expect different this time around. We know he's capable of doing great stuff and I'd love to see him actually give us his take on metal or an acoustic album, but it's just not going to happen. Thankfully, the world is teeming with good bands (says ravenguy2000).

the drama continues

No, you need to be shot in the head because you're a worthless shrill who can't understand how anyone would not JUST LOVE! a new song by Billy Corgan.

I'm not drooling over Doomsday Clock either.

Also, we've heard all but two of the new songs live. Loud vocals aside, we all knew what kind of song Doomsday Clock is. Of all the new ones I've heard, it's the one that impressed me least. So I'm not sure why everyone is just freaking out now, because I'm sure most of you have heard the Paris show.
Right.

Thankfully, the world is teeming with good bands (says ravenguy2000).

You're obviously not trying very hard if you haven't found plenty of albums from 2007 to enjoy.

still no fucking chicago date??!?!?!?




Well they do have a Normal, IL date heh.

I like it. I knew it was a good song from the live recordings. I'm not sold on the vocal mix but it does sound way better in decent headphones (WAY BETTER) plus you do get used to it after a few listens. It will make a great single too. It's the best radio chorus he's written in forever.

Good music needs more standards than harmless and fun.

Good music can be harmless and fun, but harmless and fun music does not make it good.

Did anyone ever tell you that you have a way with words?

I like Tarantula, though.

This song, in the meantime, sounds like an awful parody of something that would have ended up on the Zero single.
If anything it sounds like it could BE on the Zero single...

I understand your concern but I think you are just setting the bar way too high.

You're obviously not trying very hard if you haven't found plenty of albums from 2007 to enjoy.

It's true... It's been a busy year, new job &tc. The last thing I got excited about was The Tuss. And I 'discovered' Wolfmother at Pinkpop.

You're obviously not trying very hard if you haven't found plenty of albums from 2007 to enjoy.
is this not the problem with the good majority of smashing pumpkins fans?

they have no frame of reference and so they love everything corgan puts out because they don't know any better. i can't help but feel like people here would be able to be a lot more honest if they knew more than a handful of bands

You're obviously not trying very hard if you haven't found plenty of albums from 2007 to enjoy.

And my request above was honest!

If anything it sounds like it could BE on the Zero single...

I understand your concern but I think you are just setting the bar way too high.

but if the bar is too low you might end up listening to linkin park or papa roach.

I just heard the 30 second clip on Itunes....I don't see what is so awful about it as some of you are claiming. It sounds like the 20 second promo clip.

Goddamn you are dumb. Well, it's been since the dawn of man.
Seriously. Fun music sucks according to sppunk, apparently. No wonder he's such an asshole.

That is most certainly not faint praise.

It's harmless and fun just like, say, Transformer. When Billy sings "she's happy as a turtle" you probably chuckled the first time you heard it too, but I love that song. Just because a song is more "fun" than harsh and serious should not imply that it's faint praise, or lowering your expectations as another fellow Netphorian has been saying lately. I'm not lowering my expectations at all. Tarantula rocks. A song doesn't have to be complex, mysterious and serious in order to be good, man. It just has to rock. Billy Corgan knows how to rock.
but i don't agree that a song "just has to rock" to be good. "harmless" means "unchallenging", which is really just one step away from "bland". i don't want to hear harmless songs, i want to hear unfamiliar, difficult, beautiful songs that confront and surpass and shatter my expectations in ways i couldn't possibly have predicted myself. life is too short for mediocrity.

and sure, transformer is fun, but there are good reasons why a) it wasn't released as a single, b) it wasn't put on an album, and c) i seldom listen to it.

To be fair, Doomsday Clock is no better or worse than Zero. Really. It's one of a couple songs on any given Pumpkins album made to be more radio friendly.
i don't like zero much.

but if the bar is too low you might end up listening to linkin park or papa roach.
No one on this forum is that dumb, come on man.

is this not the problem with the good majority of smashing pumpkins fans?

they have no frame of reference and so they love everything corgan puts out because they don't know any better. i can't help but feel like people here would be able to be a lot more honest if they knew more than a handful of bands

Hmm I guess you just insulted me... All I can say is you're wrong. What I hear in other bands, I don't want to hear in the Pumpkins and vv. They've always been one of a kind to me and that's why I'm excited about Zeitgeist right now.

Good music can be harmless and fun, but harmless and fun music does not make it good.
bingo.

In fact, this song would rank in the bottom third of Machina's songs it's so bad.


LoL, no it wouldn't.

I understand your concern but I think you are just setting the bar way too high.

Between the internet and all the great record stores around me and all the great music venues around me I just don't have time for music that is "ok" or "not bad" or "decent."

I make the choice to listen to music I think is legitimately really good just about all the time. Tarantula fits that pretty well, Doomsday Clock comes nowhere close.

That's all there is to it. There's no such thing as expecting too much from music, that's why I love it so much.

That's also why I love 4 Smashing Pumpkins albums and scads of other Smashing Pumpkins songs that didn't even make the regular albums.

I just heard the 30 second clip on Itunes....I don't see what is so awful about it as some of you are claiming. It sounds like the 20 second promo clip.

brendo provided a link to sendspace in another thread for the whole song. or are you of those people that aren't listening til the album comes out?

i'm afraid i have to tell you that 'doomsday clock' is one of the better songs. i can already see netphorians committing suicide after hearing 'bring the light'.

This is perfect timing of release of the 2nd single..right before US residencies.

Good job Bolly.

i'm afraid i have to tell you that 'doomsday clock' is one of the better songs. i can already see netphorians committing suicide after hearing 'bring the light'.

i heard Bring the Light was good.

Hmm I guess you just insulted me... All I can say is you're wrong. What I hear in other bands, I don't want to hear in the Pumpkins and vv. They've always been one of a kind to me and that's why I'm excited about Zeitgeist right now.
this doesn't really make any sense but okay

but i don't agree that a song "just has to rock" to be good. "harmless" means "unchallenging", which is really just one step away from "bland". i don't want to hear harmless songs, i want to hear unfamiliar, difficult, beautiful songs that confront and surpass and shatter my expectations in ways i couldn't possibly have predicted myself. life is too short for mediocrity.
Sure, generally speaking, any song that just meets certain criteria to "rock" and nothing more sucks ass. I am in total agreement. I AM talking about Billy Corgan, though. Doomsday Clock isn't the best thing he's ever done, but it is pretty radio friendly despite kind of having its own personal little Pumpkins touch, which is impressive. You don't see many bands being able to pull that kind of thing off. It could be better, but it doesn't completely suck. This is not lowering your expectations. Every single band in existence has a pile of songs that could've been better. Still, I personally am impressed with Corgan's ability to make those radio friendly songs but still have them retain something that's at least somewhat different.

and sure, transformer is fun, but there are good reasons why a) it wasn't released as a single, b) it wasn't put on an album, and c) i seldom listen to it.
So what? I was just using it as an example. And it's from a time where people seemed to be much less negative about Corgan as an artist.

i don't like zero much.
I don't either, which is why I said that. Like Transformer, Zero was released at a time where you wouldn't see such negativity over Corgan's work.

also i agree with everything luke de spa has said in this thread

also i agree with everything luke de spa has said in this thread

same

i heard Bring the Light was good.
what, from the guy who gave Doomsday Clock a 9? man i'm pumped for Bring The Light.

what, from the guy who gave Doomsday Clock a 9? man i'm pumped for Bring The Light.

wasn't it Implosion that said it was good? I need to read his review again.

edit: yea, it was. if he's correct, FG&C is the one we need to watch out for.

Between the internet and all the great record stores around me and all the great music venues around me I just don't have time for music that is "ok" or "not bad" or "decent."
You've heard two fucking studio tracks, man. Two.

And really, that opinion comes off as rather snobby. I like listening to indie bands too, but they're capable of having songs that are "ok" or "not bad" or "decent".

Your standards for SP are ridiculously high and not to mention unrealistic. You're acting like it's such a problem that a couple songs on Zeitgeist may not impress you. That's any album. There's always that chance that there will be a couple songs you don't like. Perhaps listening to newer bands (that you didn't invest as much time in previously) having a track or two that you don't like wouldn't bother you as much. But it doesn't change the fact that any band can put out some songs you personally don't like. Take a step back and think about how you are reacting, it's pretty laughable.

Sure, generally speaking, any song that just meets certain criteria to "rock" and nothing more sucks ass. I am in total agreement. I AM talking about Billy Corgan, though. Doomsday Clock isn't the best thing he's ever done, but it is pretty radio friendly despite kind of having its own personal little Pumpkins touch, which is impressive. You don't see many bands being able to pull that kind of thing off. It could be better, but it doesn't completely suck. This is not lowering your expectations. Every single band in existence has a pile of songs that could've been better. Still, I personally am impressed with Corgan's ability to make those radio friendly songs but still have them retain something that's at least somewhat different.
hey man get out of here. i love Doomsday Clock unequivocally and all your talk about bars and the height thereof is pissing me off. why do you even bother with this nonsense. get out of here already.

i heard Bring the Light was good.

embarassing is more accurate

Good music can be harmless and fun, but harmless and fun music does not make it good.
And Tarantula is a good song that happens to also be harmless and fun.
Your next complaint?

You've heard two fucking studio tracks, man. Two.

And really, that opinion comes off as rather snobby. I like listening to indie bands too, but they're capable of having songs that are "ok" or "not bad" or "decent".

Your standards for SP are ridiculously high and not to mention unrealistic. You're acting like it's such a problem that a couple songs on Zeitgeist may not impress you. That's any album. There's always that chance that there will be a couple songs you don't like. Perhaps listening to newer bands (that you didn't invest as much time in previously) having a track or two that you don't like wouldn't bother you as much. But it doesn't change the fact that any band can put out some songs you personally don't like. Take a step back and think about how you are reacting, it's pretty laughable.

have you taken a step back yet?

i don't want to hear harmless songs, i want to hear unfamiliar, difficult, beautiful songs that confront and surpass and shatter my expectations in ways i couldn't possibly have predicted myself. life is too short for mediocrity.


Not many Pumpkins songs fit that description, in my opinion. I look elsewhere for those qualities (mostly releases from 10-30 years ago and electronic music). As for a tight, no hassle album, I think Zeitgeist will deliver.

Not many Pumpkins songs fit that description, in my opinion. I look elsewhere for those qualities (mostly releases from 10-30 years ago and electronic music). As for a tight, no hassle album, I think Zeitgeist will deliver.

10-30 years ago?

like most Pumpkins albums?

hxxp://www.mediafire.com/?c4uwmdqf1tf

thank you, just for the record i'm planning to buy the best version of Zeitgeist
and this song has burnd... wait, it just fucking rocks

i don't want to hear harmless songs, i want to hear unfamiliar, difficult, beautiful songs that confront and surpass and shatter my expectations in ways i couldn't possibly have predicted myself. life is too short for mediocrity.
Are you guys trying to parody yourselves?

10-30 years ago?

like most Pumpkins albums?

What is your point?

Ok, I just listened. It's a solid rock song.......nothing groundbreaking like some of you might have been expecting (I don't know why because judging from the live version, it's a pretty straightforward song).

It's definitely not 'awful' as some of you have claimed.

EDIT: And to the dude who said most of Machina is better than this....go shoot yourself, you've got to be kidding me.

I wonder what this new stuff sounds like to a person not acquainted with the pumpkins old stuff.

embarassing is more accurate

I thought you heard the album, and had your lies burnt off after the 2nd listen?

yeah i also wonder that ever

i wonder if someone who came upon jane's addiction in the last couple of years would rate ritual de lo habitual alongside strays

Some people are, though!
who are they? more importantly, what makes you so certain?

SP had a huge impact on me as well, and believe me I take very seriously anything they put out. I recognize that there's a difference between someone like you, and someone who just seems to bitch and moan about every little thing he does just because they're so consistently fed up. At that point it's time to let go, what's the point in continuing to complain? I'm sure your concerns are valid and not just to be a prick, but I still think you are setting the bar too high. Zwan's live show, and TheFutureEmbrace as a whole were pretty awesome. Zeitgeist seems like it will be a great record as well. I can't understand why you are so pissed all of the sudden, we all knew what Doomsday Clock sounds like thanks to bootlegs. Hell, we even knew what the tempo and vocals were like from that stupid youtube promo clip.
zwan's live show was great. thefutureembrace has two good songs. i'm not setting the bar too high, i'm just applying the same standards i set for all other music to billy corgan. he's not getting a free pass just because he's made awesome albums in the past.

also, i'm not pissed about this single. i didn't enjoy the song live so didn't give it a particularly good going over; i care more about studio recordings. in any case, the recording is out there now, and that's what we're talking about. i'm not going to wake up in the morning and think "oh, now that my anger has subsided i realise i was a bit harsh on that song" because i'm not pissed in the slightest. i'm saying this is a bad song because i think it's a bad song, nothing more, nothing less. a bad song with some cool vocal harmonies.

as an aside, that's the most trying thing about the lingering pumpkin fandom. even when the material is generally lacking, there are still moments that are like little windows into that familiar excellence. "the cameraeye" is like that for me. or the intro to "declarations of faith", or those vocal harmonies. i hear these things and think "that's great!" — followed immediately by "WHY ISN'T MORE OF IT THIS GOOD?". if they weren't there i would just write bill off and move on.

You can call it as you see it, but what I'm saying is that if you consistently see it as something bad, why even bother? I know how big of an impact SP has made on people. Yet if you get to the point where you personally made a decision that Billy Corgan isn't as good as he used to be and will never get better, why continue to complain? He's not going to change. And I really don't think that, as a whole, he's lost his touch or is a bad artist. Are you expecting it to be like 1993 again? Even Corgan said in an interview in '05 that you won't be getting that again. And, quite frankly, how could you (or better yet, WHY would you) expect him to turn out another Siamese Dream? You can't make that album twice.
i don't consistently see "it" as something bad, or billy corgan as irredeemable (if i did, as i said, i'd give up and move on) and i certainly don't want a rehash of prior sp albums. if you're not putting words in my mouth there then you're putting it in others'.

frankly i don't see how your characterisation of people here can be taken as anything but an assumption. it's internally consistent but there's no compelling reason to believe it applies to anyone on this board unless they've outright said "i'm a troll / bill will never do anything good ever again / i've given up on the guy completely"

I thought you heard the album, and had your lies burnt off after the 2nd listen?

old corgan records used to grow on me with every listen, the newer ones don't. :(

this track is definitly better than 80% of material recorded since adore (or maybe even including). thats not a *huge* compliment.

There's little difference between cherub rock or doomsday clock other than the importance people place with personal context.

the vocal melodies sound similar to TAFH, the song.

i want to hear unfamiliar, difficult, beautiful songs that confront and surpass and shatter my expectations in ways i couldn't possibly have predicted myself. life is too short for mediocrity.

If you applied those same standards, in context in 1996, to the Zero single you would have to arrive at the conclusion that it too is mediocre. And maybe it is when considered in the larger body of the Pumpkins' work, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable to me. It would seem that some of you just aren't capable of deriving enjoyment from a song when taken at face value.

There's little difference between cherub rock or doomsday clock other than the importance people place with personal context.


IAWTC.

If we had never heard the pumpkins before Doomsday, How would this song be received?

Much better I bet, but compared to bolly from 10 years ago, it just doesnt 'seem' right.

I've read a few people over the last couple of weeks talk about similarities between some of the new songs and older songs like Bodies and, I think, Where Boys Fear to Tread as well. I honestly don't understand these comparisons and, to me, it doesn't sound like the Pumpkins are rehashing the style or music that came from that era and earlier eras.

Then again, and I feel like this is important, I'm not a musician. I cannot play guitar or drums and I don't know musical terminology. I think that my lack of knowledge in that area is probably the reason i don't understand the 'rehashing old work' statements.

With that said, as much as I have enjoyed the new material, I seriously think it is lacking a bit. Tarantula was decent and I like Doomsday Clock a lot more and i think lyrically it is pretty cool... but (as far as these two studio songs go) I just hear two cool songs and not two songs that do much to me emotionally. Right now, that is. The album isn't even out yet and even if I get the same "This is really cool to put on every once in a while" feeling with the rest of the album, that could eventually change. I didn't like the second disc of Mellon Collie for a long while but one day I was on the train going down to San Diego and put it on and for whatever reason from that point on I loved that disc of Mellon Collie. I think it takes a pretty precise moment for an album to become one of those truly 'life changing' albums and, if Zeitgeist ever even becomes that to someone somewhere, that's not going to happen before the album is released or probably shortly after.

Besides, from the reviews I've read (Implosions and.. one other on here..) I wasn't looking forward to this song NEARLY as much as some of the others so I'm not surprised I didn't like it as much as I would have liked.

There's little difference between cherub rock or doomsday clock other than the importance people place with personal context.
wtf? one is in a major key, one in a minor key
one uses mostly chords and open root w/ octaves, the other is mostly single note riffs.

they aren't even similar.

hey can somebody please put this on youtube or present it in flash? I'm stuck at work and cannot dl anything. =[

wtf? one is in a major key, one in a minor key
one uses mostly chords and open root w/ octaves, the other is mostly single note riffs.

they aren't even similar.
looooool

Of course they're technically different. Otherwise they'd be the same song. Duh

If you applied those same standards, in context in 1996, to the Zero single you would have to arrive at the conclusion that it too is mediocre. And maybe it is when considered in the larger body of the Pumpkins' work, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable to me. It would seem that some of you just aren't capable of deriving enjoyment from a song when taken at face value.
but i've never liked zero. me != you

ya know, Effloresce, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of Luke de Spa's opinions on the music, but at the same time I find him to be one of the more intelligent and interesting people posting here. Besides, the debating is what makes this board fun. I've spent some time posting on thepumpkins.net, and while i do enjoy the friendliness, I have become pretty much addicted to this board instead, not because of the rude and immature jerks who like to post on here to pass their time, but because people here are often very passionate about their views on SP, whether the views are good or bad. This board would get boring really quickly if it was nothing but a lovefest.

well east is a lot more similar to cherub than doomsday.

and mouths of babes is a lot closer to doomsday than cherub would be.

but i've never liked zero. me != youLuke what are some songs you really really like

Luke what are some songs you really really like
by the pumpkins, or generally?

i'd also like to say i agree with nearly all of what luke has said.

There really is no point in argueing about what songs are good and what songs are bad. Each person will have their own opinions. I for one have found that Doomsday Clock is quite exceptional after repeated listens. Once you get used the millioin Billys layered over each other, it actually sounds pretty cool. Have a nice day everyone. Enjoy!

who are they? more importantly, what makes you so certain?
Who are they? Just read through this thread. Zwan threads. TFE threads. Hell, Machina threads.

zwan's live show was great. thefutureembrace has two good songs. i'm not setting the bar too high, i'm just applying the same standards i set for all other music to billy corgan. he's not getting a free pass just because he's made awesome albums in the past.
I think TFE had all but one or two good songs. I never said anything about giving him a free pass, I said you're being unrealistic in how you rate his recent work. I don't give Corgan a free pass, either. Machina I was mostly a studio disaster and MSOTS is just such a goddamn mess, save like one song, that I haven't even listened to it in its entirety for at least two years now. TFE is a solid album, I'd rank it as "good" album material, not album of the year material. So once again I do not give Billy Corgan a free pass when it comes to everything.

also, i'm not pissed about this single. i didn't enjoy the song live so didn't give it a particularly good going over; i care more about studio recordings. in any case, the recording is out there now, and that's what we're talking about. i'm not going to wake up in the morning and think "oh, now that my anger has subsided i realise i was a bit harsh on that song" because i'm not pissed in the slightest. i'm saying this is a bad song because i think it's a bad song, nothing more, nothing less. a bad song with some cool vocal harmonies.
It was easy to see how the studio song was gonna sound based on the live version though. It's pretty basic. And once again the youtube clip confirmed that.

as an aside, that's the most trying thing about the lingering pumpkin fandom. even when the material is generally lacking, there are still moments that are like little windows into that familiar excellence. "the cameraeye" is like that for me. or the intro to "declarations of faith", or those vocal harmonies. i hear these things and think "that's great!" — followed immediately by "WHY ISN'T MORE OF IT THIS GOOD?". if they weren't there i would just write bill off and move on.
What you just wrote reminds me of someone barely hanging onto what you love about Corgan's work. If the only thing you like are vocal harmonies and the rest compel you to write things as you have in this thread, why do you even care? It just seems like you're in denial. "Doomsday Clock sucks as a song but at least the vocal layering is pretty cool, guess I should still hang on." If *I* were you, at that point, I'd stop listening to SP and anything else Corgan related.

i don't consistently see "it" as something bad, or billy corgan as irredeemable (if i did, as i said, i'd give up and move on) and i certainly don't want a rehash of prior sp albums. if you're not putting words in my mouth there then you're putting it in others'.
I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it's very hard to take your opinions seriously given your general disdain for pretty much everything he's done since 2000.

frankly i don't see how your characterisation of people here can be taken as anything but an assumption. it's internally consistent but there's no compelling reason to believe it applies to anyone on this board unless they've outright said "i'm a troll / bill will never do anything good ever again / i've given up on the guy completely"
That's pathetic. It's not hard to tell if someone is really fed up with what Billy Corgan has been doing. What's hard is trying to understand why people stick around if all they're going to do is hate on every single thing he's done in the past few years. Even if you like tiny little aspects of a song, if you're pretty disappointed with everything overall, and you've been feeling the same way for about eight years now, it's time to let go. Acknowledge your once favorite artist as someone who now, to you, has rare moments of brilliance and stop complaining so much. Because that's the impression that I'm getting. You don't like his new music enough to really say that the songs are really good, only something like vocal harmonies in a chorus that is otherwise dull. What's the point in even wasting so many keystrokes if that's how upset you are?

I never said ANYTHING about a free pass, just stop being so unrealistic. You're either going to mostly like it or you aren't. Don't use an example of backing vocals or something else that only lasts a couple seconds as a reason to say "see, I still care"! You care, but in the most snobby, unrealistic way possible.

we love you Luke de Spa, don't ever change.

If you applied those same standards, in context in 1996, to the Zero single you would have to arrive at the conclusion that it too is mediocre. And maybe it is when considered in the larger body of the Pumpkins' work, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable to me. It would seem that some of you just aren't capable of deriving enjoyment from a song when taken at face value.
Pretty much, man. I'm blown away at how nitpicky some people are being. Surely if they would not have time to listen to SP's new music if there's so much else out there right now, then they wouldn't be wasting time fighting with people over one song on a message board...

well east is a lot more similar to cherub than doomsday.

and mouths of babes is a lot closer to doomsday than cherub would be.:S you're right.

I was just trying to make this point, saying you could swap doomsday clock for cherub rock by going back in time and release cherub rock now and doomsday clock back then and we'd be having a similar discussion. I mean maybe not but it just seems like it.

by the pumpkins, or generally?Pumpkins

free pass.

but i've never liked zero. me != you

Right, I already got that. You'd be one of the people who "aren't capable of deriving enjoyment from a song when taken at face value." You apply those standards that you outlined earlier and that's great.

This isn't directed at you, but I just don't understand why some people expend the energy they do to disparage a song they don't like (for whatever reason).

What is your point?

10 years ago was 1997. most of their work was before that year. so to say that you don't look to SP for complex and intelligent music and you go for the stuff that is 10-30 years ago is contradictory.

\nn/p

You can PM me a list of good other stuff to get if you want, luke.

ever's making the best points in this thread and you guys are all ignoring him. shame on you

It is not the best pumpkins song, but I like it. It's a good album opener(love that drum intro) and it leaves you wanting a bit more. And no, you're not gettin' SD or MCIS caliber albums again. It's just not happening.

But Billy still has those moments of brilliance. Good live versions of MSOTS(the song), For your love, Gossamer, etc... confirm it. I look forward to some of those moments in Zeitgeist.

10 years ago was 1997. most of their work was before that year. so to say that you don't look to SP for complex and intelligent music and you go for the stuff that is 10-30 years ago is contradictory.

\nn/p

I give up.

ugh, yeah I'm no good at this

I give up.

what is it that you're not getting? i'm trying to help out and explain.

I'm not impressed with the new material at all. I've been a hardcore fan since the SD days and since after Adore I think the quality control of the pumpkins writing and production has been completely flushed down the toilet. I can handle bad production as long as the song is there but there hasn’t really been an SP song I liked since Adore. In my opinion, Tarantula and Doomsday Clock are complete garbage and I am really disappointed. Now that I've heard these two I wish the pumpkins would have held off on the reunion. Maybe their 7th studio album will be better...

To once again be fair, Luke de Spa is the only person who's being negative that I can tolerate, but even some of his opinions baffle me...

what is it that you're not getting? i'm trying to help out and explain.

You're a kind soul.

What you just wrote reminds me of someone barely hanging onto what you love about Corgan's work. If the only thing you like are vocal harmonies and the rest compel you to write things as you have in this thread, why do you even care? It just seems like you're in denial. "Doomsday Clock sucks as a song but at least the vocal layering is pretty cool, guess I should still hang on." If *I* were you, at that point, I'd stop listening to SP and anything else Corgan related.
as i said, i'm not going to judge an album on the basis of two songs. "bleeding the orchid" is fantastic, and i'm looking forward to hearing a few of the others on the record, too. i think this song sucks, so what? there's really not much to read into about me on the basis of that.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it's very hard to take your opinions seriously given your general disdain for pretty much everything he's done since 2000 in the studio. That's pathetic. It's not hard to tell if someone is really fed up with what Billy Corgan has been doing. What's hard is trying to understand why people stick around if all they're going to do is hate on every single thing he's done in the past few years. ... Don't use an example of backing vocals or something else that only lasts a couple seconds as a reason to say "see, I still care"! You care, but in the most snobby, unrealistic way possible.
this is complete mischaracterisation and i'm not going to indulge it. we're done here

I'm not impressed with the new material at all. I've been a hardcore fan since the SD days and since after Adore I think the quality control of the pumpkins writing and production has been completely flushed down the toilet. I can handle bad production as long as the song is there but there hasn’t really been an SP song I liked since Adore. In my opinion, Tarantula and Doomsday Clock are complete garbage and I am really disappointed. Now that I've heard these two I wish the pumpkins would have held off on the reunion. Maybe their 7th studio album will be better...

think of Zeitgeist as a second Gish.

lucky day spa is way cooler than that corgan guy

haha holy fuck some of the comments in this thread are hilarious in their pomposity. this hyper negativity towards everything is so cliched and lame, some of the people here need to lighten the fuck up.

its an okay song, nothing amazing... it sounds pretty much like what i'd expect from a smashing pumpkins single, and really, anyone who goes into this album expecting it to blow their previous material away is an idiot. that doesn't mean its bad though, i enjoyed it , and i hardly regret spending the three and a half minutes listening to it. sure we all want to hear fantastic music that shatters our expectations in ways we never expected and whatnot, but that rarely happens, i can't even remember the last time that happened for me.

I'm not impressed with the new material at all. I've been a hardcore fan since the SD days and since after Adore I think the quality control of the pumpkins writing and production has been completely flushed down the toilet. I can handle bad production as long as the song is there but there hasn’t really been an SP song I liked since Adore. In my opinion, Tarantula and Doomsday Clock are complete garbage and I am really disappointed. Now that I've heard these two I wish the pumpkins would have held off on the reunion. Maybe their 7th studio album will be better...You have a great attitude

let's hear it once again for Luke de Spa, everybody. encore!

"Now I sold my voice to pay for my security."

b/c

"One thousand years that I've waited for a sign!"

^^ Lyrics from a completely unrelated song that I turned on to drag me out of the wake of Doomsday Clock, and wake me up this morning. I think that sums up Doomsday Clock alright.

As was said earlier, it's a great jamming song... ...until I heard "12 Billys" in the mix.

Still, it's good enough to want to listen to over and over again - and I think that's because there is a point to be made in the song, which is refeshing, even if it does sound too much like pop music. I think the "It's lonely at the top." chorus is about the closest thing to teh Zeitgeist we're likely to get from this record. ...and that's not so bad. Not that it needs to be said, but it does make the whole theme of the album stand out a hell-of-a-lot more. I can foresee this song being stuck in my head all summer long.

haha holy fuck some of the comments in this thread are hilarious in their pomposity. this hyper negativity towards everything is so cliched and lame, some of the people here need to lighten the fuck up.



i think this is cliched too.

This is what Corgan does right now.. We just have to accept it. I kinda like the song. No, it's not as good as some of the Siamese dream or mellon collie stuff, but hey, I've listened to those albums for such a long time. They are "classics" to me. A new song can't and should not be compared to long time favorites.

It's better than Tarantula at least.

[QUOTE=slappyspank33] Now that I've heard these two I wish the pumpkins would have held off on the reunion. [QUOTE]


It is not a reunion.

Since you didn't respond to my query can we assume that you haven't found anything recent "good" or "great" in the category of a "Doomsday Clock" type song?

bodies

</>

also, this pretty much well sums it up

i'll never understand why people stubbornly and continuously spout this rubbish. YOU DON'T LIKE IT! YOU ARE HERE ONLY TO COMPLAIN!

wrong.

it's pretty simple, effloresce. of the music that has had the biggest effect on me, this band is responsible for a large chunk. this effect is sufficiently strong that there remains a residual hope for whatever billy corgan does next, regardless of the quality of his most recent output. is it unreasonable to guess that others are in the same position? i don't think so.

you'll never see me tell someone to stop posting or attempt to insult them because they love all the new material unreservedly. it's all you guys who think that honest criticism in any form is somehow not to be desired that are the problem here. the rest of us are just calling it as we see it; that is what characterises this board. if you can't get past that (and that certainly seems to be the case), perhaps you should seek out sp discussion elsewhere.

i think this is cliched too.

you're cool man

I like it. there is something not quite right about the vocal mix......oh wait, i can pinpoint it exactly......it's when all the layered BGV's come in. Man, they are WAY too loud. they don't blend AT ALL. it's wierd though because after repeated listens i don't notice it anymore and it just sounds normal. anyways, i like it. It's a good pumpkins single. Usually the singles are my least favorite tracks, so hopefully these aren't the best 2 songs on the album. =)

What happened to christhimself's sticky that explained all this?

I guess the question is..for those that hope that billy might bring it hardcore style like back in the 90's...do they actually think that he might actually 'bring' it like he did in the mid 90's? again? That would be a reason to stick around.. I just don't think we are going to see the bolly of old again.

ETA: Luke makes good points. He doesnt bash people for liking the new stuff. I think we all hope that billy can recapture the magic of old.

Ok, well heres what I think.

My first impression of this song was thru a good pair of headphones (im at work), and I started the song not expecting much due to the negative comments in this thread. I was actually quite suprised. This song is a good solid heavy song. Like someone said earlier, it reminds me of something off the Zero single. No, not the greatest Pumpkin song, definitly not even top 20, but it reminds me of a good solid MCIS B-Side (minus alot of the raw vocal energy) and I'm perfectly ok with that. Will this song wow new listeners? No. But it will be appeasing to long time fans who don't expect a classic. Im happy.

antiskum

cleaning out the skum of netphoria

bodies lite, which is okay by me. the bridge sucks.

Pumpkins
gish: suffer
siamese dream: soma, geek usa
pisces iscariot: obscured, starla
mellon collie: to forgive, fuck you, in the arms of sleep, thru the eyes of ruby
adore: to sheila, for martha, blank page
machinas: no "really really" likes
mary star of the sea: no "really really" likes
thefutureembrace: the cameraeye

[QUOTE=slappyspank33] Now that I've heard these two I wish the pumpkins would have held off on the reunion. [QUOTE]


It is not a reunion.


Yeah, I know. I meant to use these --> " " to express some "sarcasm".

i think this album was mastered on macbook speakers

Right, I already got that. You'd be one of the people who "aren't capable of deriving enjoyment from a song when taken at face value." You apply those standards that you outlined earlier and that's great.
what do you mean by "taken at face value", specifically? like, er, tarantula is fun and harmless but my awareness of what bill is capable of prevents me from at least enjoying it for what it is? or that my standards for "good music" prevent me from... etc.?

wow the vocals are laughably bad on this one
the rest sounds alright, i guess, but its all pretty generic...
just butt rock, you know. nothing in the league of old pumpkins.
tarantula is cool, kinda, in a 'pissant' sort of way. just a loose rock song. but with this song, it seems more and more like the entire record is going to sound this way.
one of corgan's biggest strengths in the past was the way he'd deliver the lyrics. he'd always do all those little things that made the songs great, but now he just kinda lazes his way through it (which is kinda hilarious, considering now he sings 'correctly') and it all sounds very boring and adynamic.

I don't know, I think he has a better delivery in 'Doomsday Clock' than 'Tarantula'.

i don't know what to think, i like the music, not sure about the vocals, i will probably get use to them though

With headphones, the vocals do not sound bad at all. They seem to mix well enough.

Fuck. Havent heard the song yet.

Not gonna be home for another 10 hours.

can somebody send me a link or something. I was just thinking this morning that i am getting sick of Listening to Tarantula and i might burn myself out on that song permanently if i keep listening to it.

If it was available in stores i would run out and get it. But i don't support I tunes
I don't even have it on my computer.

I have a Creative Zen player.( screw you apple)

I really hate reading all these reviews and not knowing what it actually sounds like.

Fuck. Havent heard the song yet.

Not gonna be home for another 10 hours.

can somebody send me a link or something. I was just thinking this morning that i am getting sick of Listening to Tarantula and i might burn myself out on that song permanently if i keep listening to it.

If it was available in stores i would run out and get it. But i don't support I tunes
I don't even have it on my computer.

I have a Creative Zen player.( screw you apple)

I really hate reading all these reviews and not knowing what it actually sounds like.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ir2uqm

whatcolor's link.

I have a Creative player also. I luvs it.

5 of the new songs from the album and DoomsDay Clock is the weakest...
So don't judge the album by what you're hearing. Doomsday is the only one that sounds like all of the other modern rock stuff out there.

I don't know what to believe anymore.

"believe, believe in me. believe." -bc

I think its a pretty solid song. I don't know what people were expecting from this? I mean most of you heard the live boot, I reckon its translated pretty well in the studio, although I agree the vocals aren't amazing i think they improve as the song goes on and I actually am enjoying the layering afte a few listens.

As others have said, sounds like something that could have been on the Zero EP, which is not a bad thing.

Billy will never create anything on the level of SD, MCIS or Adore... or even Gish again IMO and that isn't because he is untalented, he just isn't and probably never will be in the sort of emotional state that can produce the kind of atmosphere and emotions that made those albums so great. That being said I love some of the new songs based on the live boots: Bleeding the Orchid, Starz and Gossammer (if there is a recorded version) all sound great and could end up becoming favourites of mine.

All I expect from Billy now are some rocking tracks and some great live shows, and so far I have not been dissapointed.

I enjoy Doomsday Clock but I agree, we've heard so many conflicting views on Zeitgeist. Some saying Doomsday was their favourite and now this guy saying it was the worst of the 5 he heard.

hey man maybe we should all just think for ourselves, man.

I loved Tarantula. It was unique and very Pumpkiny

Doomsday Clock sounds like it could have been written and performed by a number of mediocre bands, like Linkin park, Creed, Papa Roach, Evanessence.....It's very underwhelming

hey man maybe we should all just think for ourselves, man.

but then we couldnt trash other peoples opinions...

hey man maybe we should all just think for ourselves, man.
If you say so

Roll on doomsday let's bomb this stinking world.

Whew. Okay. I just read through all eleven pages of thread, then I downloaded the song.

First reaction: extremely underwhelmed. By the end of the 3:42 I was just sort of bored.

It's not precisely a bad song. Just exceedingly underwhelming. I'm not enamored of the chorus of Billys, and I agree with a lot of what's been said here regarding that. Feh.

Still reserving judgment for the remainder of the album, and holding out a lot of hope for P&C.

What is "Stellar"? Is that an SP bside? Or just a song from another band they are promoting?

Incubus cover

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ir2uqm

whatcolor's link.

I have a Creative player also. I luvs it.

Awesome !

Hope this still works by the time i get home :)

i find it interesting stellar is in the track listing BEFORE pomp and circumstances, does that strike anyone else as odd?

[raises hand]

I loved Tarantula. It was unique and very Pumpkiny

Doomsday Clock sounds like it could have been written and performed by a number of mediocre bands, like Linkin park, Creed, Papa Roach, Evanessence.....It's very underwhelming

I think alot of these Zeitgeist song riffs are very generic. But if we heard them back in 1995, they would be original to the Pumpkins. Now, it seems everyone has a riff like Doomsday Clock or Tarantula.

I still think the opening riff to Bleeding the Orchid sounds like a fucking Korn song. With the low tuned guitar and that shitty effect. But, fortunatly Orchid gets 1000 times better as it goes on.

Yeah. Not really digging billy's backing vocals on billy.

Thats strange.

Sounds much better live..with ginger backing.

what do you mean by "taken at face value", specifically? like, er, tarantula is fun and harmless but my awareness of what bill is capable of prevents me from at least enjoying it for what it is? or that my standards for "good music" prevent me from... etc.?

I mean that when taken at face value, your enjoyment of a song isn't compromised by your "awareness of what bill is capable of." For example, I have a sort of visceral reaction to the songs on the Zero single (Mouths of Babes, Marquis in Spades) where I'm not worried about how they compare to his "better" stuff. The production is different but "Doomsday Clock" sounds like a song that could have been on the Zero single which is ok by me. It's hard-hitting, plodding, and unashamed. Some might call it a guilty pleasure.

I was in no way commenting on your standards for "good music" fine sir.

Yeah. Not really digging billy's backing vocals on billy.

Thats strange.

Sounds much better live..with ginger backing.

I agree completely. I can't shake the mental image of a bunch of Billys, and I don't like it.

god the vocals are SO weird

Roy Thomas Baker?

I think that we should take 'Doomsday Clock' for what it is...

A generic, butt rocking song, the type of song that is popular on radio today. As someone said earlier, it sounds like it could've come from Papa Roach or Linkin Park, well, remember this is a band that has been out of the spotlight for seven years.... SEVEN LONG YEARS PEOPLE!!!!! Ask yourself this, what is popular today? That's right, Linkin Park and Papa Roach (it's sad yes I know).

I'd say that this song will end up being one of the weakest on the album, the lyrics are atrocious! I love the vibe, sounds very Zeroish or Bodies, but it's not Billy at his best, but if this is the worst song on the album then we've got a pretty good album to look forward too (and of all the songs I've heard this is my least favorite)

In fact, if this song wasn't on the Transformers soundtrack which comes out before Zeitgeist, I bet we wouldn't be hearing this now, it's purely a strategic/money move on the Pumpkins part to put this out now!

You guys had better get used to the vocals in DC real quick like, cause there's a whole lot more where that came from. At first, it was jarring to me too, but now I really like it.

I think this album will live up to people's expectations -- if you think the whole reunion is bullshit, Billy's too old, it's unforgivable that James is gone, you're going to project those feelings into the album. If you're optimistic, you'll probably like it a lot. You can probably assume what category I fit in. I'm no Corgan Rules, though... I think TFE is pretty terrible, for example.

hey man maybe we should all just think for ourselves, man.

now there's a novel idea! I'm on board with this one.

why would you pay for an album in mp3 format?

now there's a novel idea! I'm on board with this one.

When I was born, I was board.

god the vocals are SO weird

Roy Thomas Baker?

mpp, I'm still not hearing the weirdness of the vocals...

Maybe I just have a really good set of headphones.

Well I was right in the "Predict which instrument we'll hear first" thread. Jimmy!

I like the song but i do think the vocals could be a little lower in the mix.

You guys should all realize that every riff/chord progression has been done now countless times. It's impossible to actually write something that doesn't sound a little like something else and still sound decent to the ear/sound like a rock song.

iTunes is scum.

iTunes is scum.

First listen, use headphones...and continue avoiding ITunes.

I mean that when taken at face value, your enjoyment of a song isn't compromised by your "awareness of what bill is capable of." For example, I have a sort of visceral reaction to the songs on the Zero single (Mouths of Babes, Marquis in Spades) where I'm not worried about how they compare to his "better" stuff. The production is different but "Doomsday Clock" sounds like a song that could have been on the Zero single which is ok by me. It's hard-hitting, plodding, and unashamed. Some might call it a guilty pleasure.

I was in no way commenting on your standards for "good music" fine sir.
ah, right. the visceral element is a big part of what i like about the pumpkins' heavier stuff — particularly on mellon collie — but i guess i'm not feeling that in this song. maybe billy isn't either, as he's not exactly screaming his kimono off. "plodding" is exactly right

i just used my credit from buying the asheville tickets

By itself, I don't think Doomsday Clock is bad at all. I think had this song been chosen as the first single, there would be a vastly different opinion on it. But as was said before, Tarantula was a "harmless rocker," and now we have another "harmless rocker" in Doomsday Clock. I don't listen to the Smashing Pumpkins for albums made entirely of "harmless rockers." If I wanted that, I'd listen to the Eagles of Death Metal or something in that vein.

I've been extremely optimistic about Zeitgeist since the beginning, but judging by the two songs we've heard thus far, it sounds more and more like they created an album of singles rather than an real album.

As I said in my first paragraph, I don't think Doomsday Clock is bad or anything; I think it would fit right in on a Smashing Pumpkins mix-tape or something, but that really isn't what I've been waiting on for seven years.

whew! i just bought it !!!! fuckin rules!!

Just listened to it for the first time.

I think this is a pretty great song and a damn good way to open up the album.


What the heck do you guys want?

it shows an itunes exclusive of a song called "Stellar." Cool!

Just listened to it for the first time.

I think this is a pretty great song and a damn good way to open up the album.


What the heck do you guys want?

It's ok. His singing gets on my nerves though.

I've been extremely optimistic about Zeitgeist since the beginning, but judging by the two songs we've heard thus far, it sounds more and more like they created an album of singles rather than an real album.


Let me get this straight. By hearing the first two singles, you've determined that Zeitgeist is an album entirely made up of singles?

Wow! This song sounds great!!!! Billy's voice is awesome now too. His screaming days are over boys! Get used to it...

The only real qualm I have with it is that there was no reason for him to put vocals over that one section, ya know where it sounds like he says dick.


I'm going to listen to it again now.

The only real qualm I have with it is that there was no reason for him to put vocals over that one section, ya know where it sounds like he says dick.


thankfully it's dig in.

Upon 2nd listen, yeah the vox are definitely missing something in the beginning.
But I wouldn't ever say that they get annoying.

This is still a really good song.

The vocal layering sounds really cool with headphones.

Wow! This song sounds great!!!! Billy's voice is awesome now too. His screaming days are over boys! Get used to it...

His singing sounds pretty nasty to me. He didnt scream on Gish, SD, Adore, actually he never really screamed on any albums. His singing is not as good as it used to be imo, it's too "cute".

My only qualm is that it's missing a solo.

Let me get this straight. By hearing the first two singles, you've determined that Zeitgeist is an album entirely made up of singles?

Yeah, I worded that pretty retarded...ly? Anyway, I meant in conjunction with the other songs we've heard live thus far. They all have a "radio-friendly" vibe to them, and "radio-friendly" very rarely goes hand-in-hand with "intelligent" or "interesting."

I am pretty happy right now with how this turned out.

His singing gets on my nerves though.

you sound like a third eye blind fan

One thing I do really like about the song is the abrasiveness (I guess thats the best word to describe it) of the chorus. The vocals really clash with the drums/guitar, but it sounds really fucking cool.

you sound like a third eye blind fan

Hey, I like 3EB and Billy's voice doesn't get on my nerves...

on the pre-order... + 44 covers the hit "I Am the One." Hmm..

you sound like a third eye blind fan

Sure, whatever that means.

You guys had better get used to the vocals in DC real quick like, cause there's a whole lot more where that came from. At first, it was jarring to me too, but now I really like it.

I think this album will live up to people's expectations -- if you think the whole reunion is bullshit, Billy's too old, it's unforgivable that James is gone, you're going to project those feelings into the album. If you're optimistic, you'll probably like it a lot. You can probably assume what category I fit in. I'm no Corgan Rules, though... I think TFE is pretty terrible, for example.


Quoted for emphasis

fuck it, this song is great

I dont like this whole attitude some people have that those who dont like the new stuff are living in the past. Maybe people just dont like the sound of the new songs. Perhaps it's not the sort of music they like to listen to.

Perhaps it's not the sort of music they like to listen to.

i'd say thats the most likely reason a lot of the veteran posters dont like the song

TO ALL THOSE WHO PRE-ORDERED ZEITGEIST ON ITUNES TODAY: What did you receive as far as an e-mail confirmation is concerned? I just received an e-mail from iTunes that had an ad for the pre-order, nothing on it gave me confirmation of my pre-order. Am I understanding it right, that the Ticketmaster passwords won't be e-mailed to you until you actually download the full album on 7/10?

TO ALL THOSE WHO PRE-ORDERED ZEITGEIST ON ITUNES TODAY: What did you receive as far as an e-mail confirmation is concerned? I just received an e-mail from iTunes that had an ad for the pre-order, nothing on it gave me confirmation of my pre-order. Am I understanding it right, that the Ticketmaster passwords won't be e-mailed to you until you actually download the full album on 7/10?

that's pretty much how it seems to be going

I think it's worth the 11 bucks to have doomsday today and get the bonus track. I'm still glad I got Tilt-- probably my favorite song off TFE-- when so many haven't even heard it.

Okay, it just threw me off when after I pre-ordered, all I received was an e-mail ad promoting the pre-order.

Just listened to it for the first time.

I think this is a pretty great song and a damn good way to open up the album.


What the heck do you guys want?

i agree. i think the song is great. i thought all the songs i heard at the listening party were great, or have potential to be great after a few listens. i cant wait for this album!

on another note... the name of the track is Stellar... when there is a song called Starz... Billy likes his stars...

at least its not ztellar or stellarz

I didn't do this to get the bonus tracks, or get "Doomsday Clock" today (I don't like this song, actually), the seller for me was this thing with Ticketmaster. I don't like the idea of buying the album twice, but I figured I'd be better off spending 12 more bucks now to pre-order than have to pay outta my ass for tickets to a future show through online ticket agencies. Besides bringing in more cash for the record label, band, etc., the other good thing about this promo is that it might greatly reduce ticket scalping for the US tour.

we are starz, we aaaaaarrrre

Regarding the pre-sale code, I'm assuming it'll only be good for one show? Bummer. I don't want the album on iTunes, and the Ticketmaster deal is the only reason I'd pre-order. I wonder what kind of venues these shows will be in, and if being able to to order tickets early is worth $10.

Edit: $12? *sigh*

ok how the hell do you convert this to an mp3 so I can play it through my xbox 360. Somebody please help me . I want to hear this on my surround system

ok how the hell do you convert this to an mp3 so I can play it through my xbox 360. Somebody please help me . I want to hear this on my surround system

theres a link to a mp3 version a few pages back

I would just burn it to cd and then rip it from the xbox...

ok how the hell do you convert this to an mp3 so I can play it through my xbox 360. Somebody please help me . I want to hear this on my surround system

did you buy the track or are you downloading it from one of the links in this thread? if you bought it in itunes burn it to a cd and re-rip it using the mp3 codec, if you're not worried about losing quality in the transcode. If you are worried about the quality there should be a program out there to do it.


also, theres a bunch of links in this thread to an mp3 rip, you could just download that

I bought it. Thanks I never used itunes before

fuck i still havent received an email

I thought the instructions said that the email would be sent on the 10th.

i see so there was no email sent to you?

i havent gotten an email either, instructions said email would be sent later as a reminder

oh ok, good to know

I loved Tarantula. It was unique and very Pumpkiny

Doomsday Clock sounds like it could have been written and performed by a number of mediocre bands, like Linkin park, Creed, Papa Roach, Evanessence.....It's very underwhelming

:erm:

You must be out of your fucking mind.

As I said in my first paragraph, I don't think Doomsday Clock is bad or anything; I think it would fit right in on a Smashing Pumpkins mix-tape or something, but that really isn't what I've been waiting on for seven years.


Sorry, but I don't understand this "seven year wait" thing that keeps popping up everytime I read the forums.

OK, many of us have been waiting seven years for new SP stuff, but that doesn't mean the new songs must be "worth 7 years of wait". Some people talk like Billy & Jimmy had been working on Zeitgeist since 2000.

Songs should be evaluated taking in account the time that was invested in them, not the time you've been craving for them. That's unfair, to say the least.

nope! I bet there will be the standard itunes receipt email within a few days, but the promo code won't come for a while.

On July 10, you'll also receive a unique password to purchase Smashing Pumpkins concert tickets on Ticketmaster.com before the general public."

Exact text from the iTunes Zeitgeist pre-order page...

see text here (http://i10.tinypic.com/4lh0vhu.jpg)

I just went to ticketmaster.com, and the big banner at the top advertised sp, manson, def lep. & bon jovi... cool that the pumpkins are the first band. and marilyn manson frightens me. him & his 19 year old girlfriend.

wow the vocals are laughably bad on this one
the rest sounds alright, i guess, but its all pretty generic...
just butt rock, you know. nothing in the league of old pumpkins.
tarantula is cool, kinda, in a 'pissant' sort of way. just a loose rock song. but with this song, it seems more and more like the entire record is going to sound this way.
one of corgan's biggest strengths in the past was the way he'd deliver the lyrics. he'd always do all those little things that made the songs great, but now he just kinda lazes his way through it (which is kinda hilarious, considering now he sings 'correctly') and it all sounds very boring and adynamic.

Laughably bad? What a joke you are! Stop trying to always find something wrong with Billys music! I like this song a lot....not my favorite but good. How in the hell can you not see that? You are still living in the past! The sound different now so get over it....