View Full Version : what James meant to the Pumpkins


mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:22 PM
Listen to the Earphoria version of Disarm. That solo James plays. That was what james brought to the Pumpkins, that cool spaced out soloing that Jeff will never imitate.

paranoid
06-04-2007, 07:28 PM
yep

MisterSquishyHalo
06-04-2007, 07:29 PM
that cool spaced out soloing that Jeff will never imitate.


Jeff might bring something else new and different to the situation.

Future Boy
06-04-2007, 07:29 PM
But they're so much tighter now.

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:31 PM
But they're so much tighter now.

That doesnt matter to me, if there's no emotion tightness is irrelevant. The whole thing with the Pumpkins was the emotion.

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:32 PM
2007 = TABULA RASA

the new smashing pumpkins are born with no past, a clean slate. It's time to bury the old SP and embrace The Zeitgeist.

Desolation_Disco_King
06-04-2007, 07:32 PM
or listen to mayonaise, the pumpkins most liked song amongst fans
and know that it was one of the few songs james co-wrote

Desolation_Disco_King
06-04-2007, 07:33 PM
That doesnt matter to me, if there's no emotion tightness is irrelevant. The whole thing with the Pumpkins was the emotion.

definitely

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:34 PM
2007 = TABULA RASA

the new smashing pumpkins are born with no past, a clean slate. It's time to bury the old SP and embrace The Zeitgeist.

Then they should change their name to the Tight Christian Arseholes

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:34 PM
or listen to mayonaise, the pumpkins most liked song amongst fans
and know that it was one of the few songs james co-wrote

what about the the little fact that jams CO-LLAPSED the pumpkins?

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:36 PM
what about the the little fact that jams CO-LLAPSED the pumpkins?

I thought that was Billy's fault.

Nate the Grate
06-04-2007, 07:38 PM
That solo on Disarm is like 5 seconds long. I don't know much about Jeff, but I bet he could play it too.

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:38 PM
I thought that was Billy's fault.

well, NOT according to the man himself.

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:39 PM
well, NOT according to the man himself.

Of course not.

Desolation_Disco_King
06-04-2007, 07:39 PM
what about the the little fact that jams CO-LLAPSED the pumpkins?

i was actually gonna make a thread about that, with something i realized last night

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:40 PM
That solo on Disarm is like 5 seconds long. I don't know much about Jeff, but I bet he could play it too.

It's a bit longer than that I think ffs. And it's the way it's played that I'm talking about here, and the tone he gets.

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:40 PM
Of course not.

Believe me, he said it himself.

Implosion
06-04-2007, 07:40 PM
diddly squat

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:41 PM
i was actually gonna make a thread about that, with something i realized last night

Please elaborate ASAP

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Believe me, he said it himself.

Seriously, I'm not disputing that he said it.

Deege
06-04-2007, 07:43 PM
Well, James was going to quit the band anyway. That's why Billy made the decision to end the band. Sure, it was Billy's decision to "CO-LLAPSE" the pumpkins - but it was because of James. He could have gone on without him back then but he chose not to. Irregardless we would be sitting here discussing what James meant to the Pumpkins in past tense. And I think the 7 year breakup worked out in the Pumpkins' favor - if they had replaced James so quickly after replacing D'arcy - a lot of people would have been more pissed than they are with the reunion having different members.

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:43 PM
Seriously, I'm not disputing that he said it.

Ok then, but only if you truly are being serious about it.

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:44 PM
diddly squat

Well I think they did mean something but a rift developed between him and Billy and in the end he just felt so at odds with Billy that he just didnt enjoy it anymore.

devotchka
06-04-2007, 07:44 PM
Believe me, he said it himself.
i'm pretty sure i said i was a mermaid or a princess once too. didn't make it terribly true.

Irridescent Fairysex
06-04-2007, 07:45 PM
they meant money for his GAY ASS DILDOS

mccririck
06-04-2007, 07:46 PM
But the point is the reason James was going to leave was because he didnt get along with Billy anymore. Now who's fault do you think that was? Look back over Billy's career and there is a big long list of people who think he's an arsehole.

pale_princess
06-04-2007, 07:47 PM
james roolz jeff droolz

Mr.Deadite
06-04-2007, 07:57 PM
That doesnt matter to me, if there's no emotion tightness is irrelevant. The whole thing with the Pumpkins was the emotion.

"Asians don't show emotion."

- b0lly

R3d Snapper
06-04-2007, 08:46 PM
Irregardless
:rofl:

Mr.Deadite
06-04-2007, 08:50 PM
Listen to the Earphoria version of Disarm. That solo James plays. That was what james brought to the Pumpkins, that cool spaced out soloing that Jeff will never imitate.

And I just listened to that version for the first time, and it's just kind of a generic solo. Nothing special.

pale_princess
06-04-2007, 08:52 PM
james meant a lot more to the sp than b0lly would ever gi ve hinm credit for

jm9843
06-04-2007, 09:06 PM
But the point is the reason James was going to leave was because he didnt get along with Billy anymore. Now who's fault do you think that was? Look back over Billy's career and there is a big long list of people who think he's an arsehole.

If anything Billy probably got easier to work with as time went on. The bottom line is that James got rich riding the BC Gravy Train Express and then got tired of "rocking." Compounded with his BFF D'arcy becoming an addict and getting kicked out of the band which provided the impetus for James to effectively end the Pumpkins.

While BC and JC were preparing to play a great show in front of 80,000 people on Friday night James was hanging out in a bar in NYC. That in and of itself is telling.

I'm still waiting on that second Iha solo album...

dudehitscar
06-04-2007, 09:44 PM
If anything Billy probably got easier to work with as time went on. The bottom line is that James got rich riding the BC Gravy Train Express and then got tired of "rocking." Compounded with his BFF D'arcy becoming an addict and getting kicked out of the band which provided the impetus for James to effectively end the Pumpkins.

While BC and JC were preparing to play a great show in front of 80,000 people on Friday night James was hanging out in a bar in NYC. That in and of itself is telling.

I'm still waiting on that second Iha solo album...
:)

SpFission
06-04-2007, 09:47 PM
james meant a lot more to the sp than b0lly would ever gi ve hinm credit for

jimmy meant more than james, trust me on this one.

better than new
06-04-2007, 10:17 PM
:rofl:


Fuck. You beat me to it.

GeoX
06-04-2007, 10:22 PM
i can't believe i read this crap

gogogodzirra
06-04-2007, 10:24 PM
watch the rock AM boot and tell me there is no emotion in the show

well you prolly will say that cos your an Sp1 bigot and a bastard

better than new
06-04-2007, 10:27 PM
watch the rock AM boot and tell me there is no emotion in the show

well you prolly will say that cos your an Sp1 bigot and a bastard


Watch the Rock AM... followed by the lost tapes and compare the emotion. Obviously everyone is a lot older and more mature now... but I don't like this so much. It's cool to hear the songs but I can't help feeling like something isn't right here.

Corgan Rules
06-04-2007, 10:29 PM
james meant a lot more to the sp than b0lly would ever gi ve hinm credit for

Bunch of bs!!!! Billy is and always was the band....period! Iha is so darn average and that's all he will ever be!!

gogogodzirra
06-04-2007, 10:30 PM
I haven't seen an SP show with so much emotion and feeling since way before the machina era....i will take jeff over machina james any day

runaroundkid
06-04-2007, 10:31 PM
Listen to the Earphoria version of Disarm. That solo James plays. That was what james brought to the Pumpkins, that cool spaced out soloing that Jeff will never imitate.

yes, james was awesome. he brought unique things to the pumpkins that others can't. but he is not in the pumpkins anymore. now can we just GET THE FUCK OVER IT? and if you can't, at least stop torturing us with your endless whiny posts and threads about it. we get that you are unhappy with the new SP. you have expressed yourself very clearly. look, i can sympathize, i miss him too, but i don't waste everyone's time bitching about it. for the sake of the board, please shut up.

Corgan Rules
06-04-2007, 10:32 PM
I haven't seen an SP show with so much emotion and feeling since way before the machina era....i will take jeff over machina james any day


Fuck yeah....same here!!! Some of these fans are still stuck in the past.... that's all! No matter what Jeff does, they will always find a way to say Iha is so good, when in reality he wasn't very good.

better than new
06-04-2007, 10:33 PM
It's like watching Billy form a cover band of SP. They are good, very good even. But not the real thing.

MisterSquishyHalo
06-04-2007, 10:39 PM
It's like watching Billy form a cover band of SP. They are good, very good even. But not the real thing.

Eh? I'd rather have the better band, than the 'real' thing

gogogodzirra
06-04-2007, 10:47 PM
I saw 6 shows in 2000 and believe me I would rather pay for a show like rock AM. Damn Iha wouldn't even talk to the fans on the last tour...Billy was out there signing shit and Iha just walked to the bus...

people want to make Iha out as a fucking martyr....I believe jimmy that he was invited...and said no

better than new
06-04-2007, 11:07 PM
I think my main problem is I love SP live from 1994-1996 mostly... and that sure as hell isn't coming back.

MisterSquishyHalo
06-04-2007, 11:19 PM
At least you can admit that.

Cherub Angel
06-04-2007, 11:21 PM
I believe jimmy that he was invited...and said no

Jimmy has always been the non-bullshitter of the bunch.

Ex. When Billy was being all secretive about Zwan (i.e. not even revealing the name)....

Jimmy outside of show around the same time:

"The name of the band? Zwan. Z-W-A-N."

runaroundkid
06-04-2007, 11:26 PM
that's why i love jimmy. he doesn't fuck around, he's straightforward. oh yeah and he's an amazing drummer :D

dudehitscar
06-04-2007, 11:45 PM
that's why i love jimmy. he doesn't fuck around, he's straightforward. oh yeah and he's an amazing drummer :D

straightforward. Hmm. Did you read any of the Jimmy blogs from the studio when they were making Zeitgeist??


Anyway this talk about the passion is gone: Corgan is not the wildeyed madman he once was. I've said this before but it is worth repeating here. He is not going to be screaming his head off and jumping around anymore. There are plenty of bands with the frantic energy and 'passion' you are looking for.

What is left in the wake of the crazy 90-96 days is a healed, more reserved person who is an great songwriter and a great guitarist. It's still more than enough to keep me interested. One should realize if they want that old style of sloppy crazed madness that they need to find another band to follow.

Corgan Rules
06-05-2007, 02:31 AM
It's like watching Billy form a cover band of SP. They are good, very good even. But not the real thing.


Who really cares who the others are?? So are you saying that The Pumpkins can never continue without Iha and Darcy? Cmon now! Dont fool yourself! The main ingredients are still there and are still rocking hard. Actually jnow the 2 negative members are gone...those that kept Billy down.

It is and always was Billys band so move forward with it!!

Corgan Rules
06-05-2007, 02:32 AM
Eh? I'd rather have the better band, than the 'real' thing

Absolutely! They sound so much better now, especially with Ginger helping out with backup vocals. Billy didnt have that with Iha and Darcy....

Corgan Rules
06-05-2007, 02:34 AM
I saw 6 shows in 2000 and believe me I would rather pay for a show like rock AM. Damn Iha wouldn't even talk to the fans on the last tour...Billy was out there signing shit and Iha just walked to the bus...

people want to make Iha out as a fucking martyr....I believe jimmy that he was invited...and said no


You are correct here and I agree with you. All Iha and Darcy did was bitch and complain all the time anyways!!!

Corgan Rules
06-05-2007, 02:36 AM
straightforward. Hmm. Did you read any of the Jimmy blogs from the studio when they were making Zeitgeist??


Anyway this talk about the passion is gone: Corgan is not the wildeyed madman he once was. I've said this before but it is worth repeating here. He is not going to be screaming his head off and jumping around anymore. There are plenty of bands with the frantic energy and 'passion' you are looking for.

What is left in the wake of the crazy 90-96 days is a healed, more reserved person who is an great songwriter and a great guitarist. It's still more than enough to keep me interested. One should realize if they want that old style of sloppy crazed madness that they need to find another band to follow.

Exactly! Very well put....

Cool As Ice Cream
06-05-2007, 02:40 AM
watch the rock AM boot and tell me there is no emotion in the show
You mean Rock am Ring?

spguitar
06-05-2007, 03:00 AM
It was a wah pedal and a basic scale. What's the big deal?

Deege
06-05-2007, 03:21 AM
He is not going to be screaming his head off and jumping around anymore.

Well maybe not jumping around but he still screams his ass off during certain parts of songs.

smashingpumpkin
06-05-2007, 03:28 AM
straightforward. Hmm. Did you read any of the Jimmy blogs from the studio when they were making Zeitgeist??


Anyway this talk about the passion is gone: Corgan is not the wildeyed madman he once was. I've said this before but it is worth repeating here. He is not going to be screaming his head off and jumping around anymore. There are plenty of bands with the frantic energy and 'passion' you are looking for.

What is left in the wake of the crazy 90-96 days is a healed, more reserved person who is an great songwriter and a great guitarist. It's still more than enough to keep me interested. One should realize if they want that old style of sloppy crazed madness that they need to find another band to follow.

well said man. this is clearly the new sp. billy has grown old to a certain degree, has a very different outlook than back in the 90s. especially the early early stuff. shit he was a fucken hard rocker man. that touring isnt easy. anyways im ranting. i think hes pulling a jeff martin and being all spirtual and wise. i dont really care as long as the goods are here, aka gossamer.

Kahlo
06-05-2007, 04:12 AM
i didn't realise how tight the sound of the new sp lineup was until Uli Roth started playing all over them at Rock Am Ring

Eiki
06-05-2007, 04:26 AM
it will never cease to amaze me just how far corgan rules has his head stuck up his ass.

... or just how far down his throat he's got billy dick.

Kahlo
06-05-2007, 04:36 AM
some SP fans need to stop living in the past

mccririck
06-05-2007, 04:37 AM
some SP fans need to stop living in the past

Some need to stop kidding themselves that the present is good.

Kahlo
06-05-2007, 04:41 AM
Some need to stop kidding themselves that the present is good.

you haven't even seen them live!! :rolleyes:

mccririck
06-05-2007, 05:13 AM
Heard them, that's enough for me mate.

fmrees
06-05-2007, 07:19 AM
Listen to the Earphoria version of Disarm. That solo James plays. That was what james brought to the Pumpkins, that cool spaced out soloing that Jeff will never imitate.

You should be working on a mega band to know after some concerts that "Jeff will never imitate" - you must have a real knowledge about music. Congratulatios.

But why are you wasting time here then? :D

mccririck
06-05-2007, 07:27 AM
Because I can multitask.

Cherub Angel
06-05-2007, 07:49 AM
Anyway this talk about the passion is gone: Corgan is not the wildeyed madman he once was. I've said this before but it is worth repeating here. He is not going to be screaming his head off and jumping around anymore. There are plenty of bands with the frantic energy and 'passion' you are looking for.

What is left in the wake of the crazy 90-96 days is a healed, more reserved person who is an great songwriter and a great guitarist. It's still more than enough to keep me interested. One should realize if they want that old style of sloppy crazed madness that they need to find another band to follow.


agreed....and I think it's better that he's being more reserved instead of trying to act like he's in his 20s. If he did that I don't think it would work. They would be right back where they were and subbornly try to suppress the fact that they have changed......and I think it would be quite embarrassing to see them acting like 22 year olds when they are 40. in regards to the "they lack passion" argument....what the hell do you call that performance of "Silverfuck" at Rock am Ring? If that wasn't "in the zone" passion, I don't know what is.

fmrees
06-05-2007, 08:00 AM
agreed....and I think it's better that he's being more reserved instead of trying to act like he's in his 20s. If he did that I don't think it would work. They would be right back where they were and subbornly try to suppress the fact that they have changed......and I think it would be quite embarrassing to see them acting like 22 year olds when they are 40. in regards to the "they lack passion" argument....what the hell do you call that performance of "Silverfuck" at Rock am Ring? If that wasn't "in the zone" passion, I don't know what is.

Yes, very well put :)

The passion is still there in music, in the band called Smashing Pumpkins

At the end of the concert in Le Grand Rex, when BC stood alone in the stage clapping with us, it was very clear that he got what he wanted back.

slappyspank33
06-05-2007, 09:51 AM
I would have left the band too after releasing something as bad as Machina...

areyougaffney?
06-05-2007, 09:57 AM
I don't think they'll miss him that much musically. Yeah he added a few little bits here and there but anyone here who is a compent guitarist could take them on and sound pretty damn similar.
I think it's more the asthetic and chemistry of the band that suffers. I do miss that when I l watch vieuphoria, or the clip (MTV I Think) where Billy and James play the ending on Here is no why together.......however this is7 years on, I'm trying to give the new band a chance. It's still the pumpkins and they still rock. A bit like a new girlfriend, you have to give them time to make their own history with you.

Anvil Hands
06-05-2007, 10:40 AM
every band i ever loved had a member come and go.

who fucking cares.

Music is a Journey for some people and in order to grow some poeple like to branch out and do other things.

James Iha Joined a Perfect circle and thus his journey continued.

The 1970s was a giant musical orgy everybody played with everybody and thats the way it was and all was good.

Eiki
06-05-2007, 10:42 AM
I don't think they'll miss him that much musically. Yeah he added a few little bits here and there but anyone here who is a compent guitarist could take them on and sound pretty damn similar.
I think it's more the asthetic and chemistry of the band that suffers. I do miss that when I l watch vieuphoria, or the clip (MTV I Think) where Billy and James play the ending on Here is no why together.......however this is7 years on, I'm trying to give the new band a chance. It's still the pumpkins and they still rock. A bit like a new girlfriend, you have to give them time to make their own history with you.

dude, i think you nailed it right on the head. this is pretty much exactly how i feel about it. i'm still rather wary though...

just gotta give it some time though. i'll make a more firm decision about if i'm into this new incarnation of the band after the album comes out.

pyrocus
06-05-2007, 11:34 AM
Listening to songs like Gossamer live at the Paris show, it remains to be seen that Jeff is a more competent guitarist than James was. I do love that little solo that Mccririck is talking about on the Vieuphoria video. But what sounds even better while Iha's doing that little solo is Jimmy's drumming on that section.

nii-o
06-05-2007, 11:43 AM
dudehitscare nails it but

james cannot be replaced...still

the show must go on...

devotchka
06-05-2007, 12:55 PM
to be wary of the future is not synonymous with living in the past.