View Full Version : Maybe Billy started in Europe to give us time to get used to Jeff and Ginger


Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:03 PM
He knows just as well as we know that if he had started playing shit in the U.S. without James or D'arcy or even Melissa, there'd be at least two fans per night booing or screaming for the old members. Maybe starting in Europe is Billy's buffer zone... gives us time to listen, discuss, argue, bitch and finally accept it. Then he'll come to the U.S. without as much of the negativity? Europeans are probably more welcoming to new members than America would have been, that's for sure.

mccririck
06-04-2007, 03:04 PM
Maybe. they certainly are playing shit just now. That's not the Pumpkins I remember.

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:06 PM
Can you imagine if he'd started at the Metro? It still wasn't officially confirmed as to who would be on stage prior to the first show. If Jeff and Ginger walked out to a crowd at the Metro, I guarantee 10 or more fans would have been screaming "WHERE THE FUCK IS JAMES?" all night, ruining the show.

fmrees
06-04-2007, 03:06 PM
Europeans are probably more welcoming to new members than America would have been, that's for sure.

Yes, that's for sure.

I still don't know why people worry about the new contracted musicians in the band - it does not make any sense.

Also... BC was not in the US for some time, he's more in tune with Europe recently. It has something to do with that also.

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:07 PM
Yes, that's for sure.

I still don't know why people worry about the new contracted musicians in the band - it does not make any sense.

Also... BC was not in the US for some time, he's more in tune with Europe recently. It has something to do with that also.


What are you talking about? He was in the US for the last couple of years working on Zeitgeist in Los Angeles.

fmrees
06-04-2007, 03:08 PM
Can you imagine if he'd started at the Metro? It still wasn't officially confirmed as to who would be on stage prior to the first show. If Jeff and Ginger walked out to a crowd at the Metro, I guarantee 10 or more fans would have been screaming "WHERE THE FUCK IS JAMES?" all night, ruining the show.

Now that would be childish... ;)

Just like the Australian BC-solo show where someone screamed "Play some Pumpkins" and BC walked off-stage.

wHATcOLOR
06-04-2007, 03:08 PM
typical disgusting US-centric world view

fmrees
06-04-2007, 03:09 PM
What are you talking about? He was in the US for the last couple of years working on Zeitgeist in Los Angeles.

Then why he said that he went to the US to rehearse before coming back to Europe, and that he wanted to "check home" before leaving again. :D

BTW... I'm talking about what he said, nothing more.

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:09 PM
Just like the Australian BC-solo show where someone screamed "Play some Pumpkins" and BC walked off-stage.



That's EXACTLY what the first dozen or more shows would be like had he started in the U.S.

fmrees
06-04-2007, 03:09 PM
typical disgusting US-centric world view

Agreed :D

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:10 PM
typical disgusting US-centric world view






Yep.

...but, also, it's the view of a fan who refuses to evolve with the band. It's really a mixture of the two.

fmrees
06-04-2007, 03:10 PM
That's EXACTLY what the first dozen or more shows would be like had he started in the U.S.

Heck... people still have such a romantic way to look at bands today :D

MisterSquishyHalo
06-04-2007, 03:10 PM
He knows just as well as we know that if he had started playing shit in the U.S. without James or D'arcy or even Melissa, there'd be at least two fans per night booing or screaming for the old members. Maybe starting in Europe is Billy's buffer zone... gives us time to listen, discuss, argue, bitch and finally accept it. Then he'll come to the U.S. without as much of the negativity? Europeans are probably more welcoming to new members than America would have been, that's for sure.


Yup. By the time they come to the states, most of us will have heard them or seen them. So we will be almost used to them by the time they are doing the residences. Good move by bolly.

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 03:12 PM
Yup. By the time they come to the states, most of us will have heard them or seen them. So we will be almost used to them by the time they are doing the residences. Good move by bolly.





Right.

Maybe by the time he's done in Europe, he will have already broken out the "controversial" songs like Mayonaise, Soma, I Am One, etc, so that he can enter them into setlists in the U.S. without people screaming that Jeff is a cocksucker for not being James.

devotchka
06-04-2007, 03:33 PM
i think those reactions are going to exist no matter how long billy stays in europe warming up the new members. however, i do think that those reactions have been drastically lessened by this move. someone's going to be an ass regardless, but there's less provocation for it now that the members, and more importantly their sound, have been established.

j u n e
06-04-2007, 03:40 PM
He knows just as well as we know that if he had started playing shit in the U.S. without James or D'arcy or even Melissa, there'd be at least two fans per night booing or screaming for the old members.
but he can be just as dick as the fans can, if not worse.
personally i feel like we've missed out on some potentially awesome billy vs. fans arguments.
i hope ole billz isnt gettin soft in his age.

mccririck
06-04-2007, 03:43 PM
i hope ole billz isnt gettin soft in his age.


Oh he is. Too much god not enough reality.

j u n e
06-04-2007, 03:50 PM
well at least i'll be able to dry my tears of disappointment on his cape.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-04-2007, 03:52 PM
If Jeff and Ginger walked out to a crowd at the Metro, I guarantee 10 or more fans would have been screaming "WHERE THE FUCK IS JAMES?" all night, ruining the show.
Are you serious?

I mean, he played Europe first during the TFE tour and he got a lot of "play some Pumpkins" or "play some rock". I don't see it as typical American behavior.

On the other hand, I have not heard anyone yell for James during the Europe shows I went to. But I thought that was because - even though it hadn't been officially announced yet - most people were already convinced that James and D'arcy weren't going to be on the tour. The names of Jeff and Ginger had been around for a while.

SlingeroGuitaro
06-04-2007, 03:53 PM
the only people that would go 'where the fuck is james' are the people on this board and others alike.

i have several friends who are fans that have no idea what james' name is, nor do they care. i am sure there are more people in the world like this than those that would shit themselves obsessing over who the band was and why did they play these songs last night too.

j u n e
06-04-2007, 03:53 PM
yeah, those chicago fans are cunts.

i wouldnt doubt that a bunch of them would heckle billy

caliphornia
06-04-2007, 03:59 PM
Oh he is. Too much god not enough reality.
why do spend so much time here if all you ever do is criticize the band? seriously, i've never seen you say one optomistic or positive thing. it's 100% whining. you need to go get some sunshine and read a book. or something.

Reyngel
06-04-2007, 04:02 PM
the only people that would go 'where the fuck is james' are the people on this board and others alike.

i have several friends who are fans that have no idea what james' name is, nor do they care. i am sure there are more people in the world like this than those that would shit themselves obsessing over who the band was and why did they play these songs last night too.


How many Pumpkins shows have you been to? I swear, at least four or five of the ones I've been to have had dozens of people screaming in excitement for James. Trust me, it's not just Netphoria that is into James.

skipgo
06-04-2007, 04:52 PM
why do so many people act like European fans are somehow not as important as those of us in the US? It's pretty arrogant of americans to think this way. I mean, I wish they'd started here too, but it's not as if we're the only fans who really matter. I'm not addressing the person who started this thread, just american fans in general who've been complaining about it. Mostly people on the band's myspace...

SpFission
06-04-2007, 04:58 PM
why do so many people act like European fans are somehow not as important as those of us in the US? It's pretty arrogant of americans to think this way. I mean, I wish they'd started here too, but it's not as if we're the only fans who really matter. I'm not addressing the person who started this thread, just american fans in general who've been complaining about it. Mostly people on the band's myspace...

Because the band is from AMERICA.

skipgo
06-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Because the band is from AMERICA.
No shit. and so fucking what?

exactlythesame
06-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Maybe. they certainly are playing shit just now. That's not the Pumpkins I remember.

The Pumpkins you remember are gone.

I wish it wasn't so, but it's the reality.

caliphornia
06-04-2007, 05:00 PM
why do so many people act like European fans are somehow not as important as those of us in the US? It's pretty arrogant of americans to think this way. I mean, I wish they'd started here too, but it's not as if we're the only fans who really matter. I'm not addressing the person who started this thread, just american fans in general who've been complaining about it. Mostly people on the band's myspace...
because SP is a US band and most of their fans are from US. it sucks but that's just how it is. if they were from norway it would be the other way around.

skipgo
06-04-2007, 05:05 PM
i guess i've just never gotten the idea of having loyalty to a piece of land just because you were born there. I'm not anti american by any means, but more "pro world". The fans in Europe have as much right to see them as we do. But whatever, blah blah...i don't care. They'll be here soon enough

SpFission
06-04-2007, 05:05 PM
No shit. and so fucking what?

I honestly don't care as long as they play in my area...If they totally neglect the Northeast, and then play 2 concerts in France, thats just wrong.

But seriously, it's because European fans think they are better than American fans...so it's only fair to give it right back. :banging:

SlingeroGuitaro
06-04-2007, 05:06 PM
How many Pumpkins shows have you been to? I swear, at least four or five of the ones I've been to have had dozens of people screaming in excitement for James. Trust me, it's not just Netphoria that is into James.


twelve shows.


i dont ever remember hearing people cry over james, other than on messageboards. the people that did talk about james in line at the shows were all wearing listessa shirts and asking if anyone posted on netphoria.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-04-2007, 05:08 PM
because SP is a US band and most of their fans are from US.
does that make the european fans less important? explain how.

SpFission
06-04-2007, 05:10 PM
does that make the european fans less important? explain how.

Because europeans are inferior in every aspect of life. How's that? ;)

Cool As Ice Cream
06-04-2007, 05:11 PM
Because europeans are inferior in every aspect of life. How's that? ;)
makes sense.

exactlythesame
06-04-2007, 05:11 PM
Because europeans are inferior in every aspect of life. How's that? ;)

Intolerance! It's what made the South great!

skipgo
06-04-2007, 05:14 PM
I honestly don't care as long as they play in my area...If they totally neglect the Northeast, and then play 2 concerts in France, thats just wrong.

But seriously, it's because European fans think they are better than American fans...so it's only fair to give it right back. :banging:


well yeah, that would suck if they didn't play where all the US fans who wanted to see them could easily do so. But just getting pissed that they're starting there is silly. Like someone else said, it's just a typical view that the US is the only important place in the world.
I can't say that I've met any European fans who think they're better than me...In fact I quite like all the European SP fans I've met over the years.

skipgo
06-04-2007, 05:14 PM
Intolerance! It's what made the South great!
:rofl:

eyeboogers
06-04-2007, 05:17 PM
For the record The Smashing Pumpkins throughout most of their career have been more popular in Europe than in the states. similar to the status R.E.M. has of being well respected but modestly selling at home but huge overseas.

exactlythesame
06-04-2007, 05:18 PM
But just getting pissed that they're starting there is silly.

http://www.worldbookday.com/documents/web4c/full/07web4cSillyBillyjkt.jpg

theFoulLasagna
06-04-2007, 05:24 PM
Maybe they felt like they've remained more popular in europe than they did in the US, so they started there. Heck....they could've toured Japan with spinal tap.

caliphornia
06-04-2007, 05:26 PM
does that make the european fans less important?
nope. i was just trying to provide an answer to skips question: "why do so many people act like European fans are somehow not as important as those of us in the US?"

so many people believe european fans are less important because they are not from the bands native country. i don't personally agree with this but that's just how it works. get it?

Reyngel
06-05-2007, 12:31 AM
i guess i've just never gotten the idea of having loyalty to a piece of land just because you were born there. I'm not anti american by any means, but more "pro world". The fans in Europe have as much right to see them as we do. But whatever, blah blah...i don't care. They'll be here soon enough




It's nothing new. Billy, throughout the 13 years of the Pumpkins, used the Metro and Chicago as his ultimate "home" with regards to major Pumpkin shows. It's why he'd constantly end tours there, and it's why he decided to have both farewell shows there. And aside from him being American, as well as all of the rest of the band, Billy constantly used the U.S. as grounds for launching all sorts of things that were a part of the Pumpkins legacy, such as the charity Adore tour where he donated all proceeds to charities in each city, the meet and greets, the announcement of the breakup, etc. So when he decided to abandon all of that by starting it up in France, people took it as a sign of him turning his back on Chicago and the rest of the United States, because seven years ago, it'd have been an unimaginable thing to do. "We're an American band for you."

And as far as beng loyal to a piece of land because you're born on it... if you've never heard of that concept before, you really need to watch the news, get out more, talk to some people. It's probably the most hardcore issue in the world these days, and has been since the beginning of time, aside from religion(which, in many parts of the world, is directly tied into it).

severin
06-05-2007, 03:01 AM
the euro-tour is the "let's get the money making over with" tour. i'd say a festival show gets them around 500.000 USD (and that's estimated on the low side). the club shows will earn them less, but let's say they still make 50.000 or so per show...if you do the math you'll see, that they come home to the US rather filthy rich ;). hence the 25 USD vs. 50 EUR ticket-prices....

so i really don't think this has anything to do with warming up or something like that

Kahlo
06-05-2007, 03:10 AM
And as far as beng loyal to a piece of land because you're born on it... if you've never heard of that concept before, you really need to watch the news, get out more, talk to some people. It's probably the most hardcore issue in the world these days, and has been since the beginning of time, aside from religion(which, in many parts of the world, is directly tied into it).

Wow. Not only was that condescending as hell, but it was also idiotic. This thread sucks, and by extension, so do you :noway:

Reyngel
06-05-2007, 03:26 AM
Wow. Not only was that condescending as hell, but it was also idiotic. This thread sucks, and by extension, so do you :noway:




It was condescending? You're right.

So what?

million_watts
06-05-2007, 03:30 AM
USA - WE OWN THE PLANET

:noway:

money calculation is totally off also. although i've never dealt with tours even similar to this level, i still have a decent picture of the costs related to touring. especially with these distances and that many days off. this is definitely anything but a cash-in tour. germany and switzerland also charge insane taxes, which results in higher tickets prices for any event. the club shows in europe are pretty much not worth anything for them the way they are set up now, at least not money wise. i'm not saying they don't make good money (at festivals), just putting it into relation

severin
06-05-2007, 03:41 AM
USA - WE OWN THE PLANET

:noway:

money calculation is totally off also. although i've never dealt with tours even similar to this level, i still have a decent picture of the costs related to touring. especially with these distances and that many days off. this is definitely anything but a cash-in tour. germany and switzerland also charge insane taxes, which results in higher tickets prices for any event. the club shows in europe are pretty much not worth anything for them the way they are set up now, at least not money wise. i'm not saying they don't make good money (at festivals), just putting it into relation
do you have any idea what they make with one festival gig..oh, you have, i told you...sure, travel expenses are there but nowhere near that high. even if it would cost them 250.000 per festival show to travel and so, they'd still make at least the same amount into their pockets...they're bringing home millions from this tour...and they should, hell, they can make all the money they want for all that i care

leena
06-05-2007, 04:14 AM
Just like the Australian BC-solo show where someone screamed "Play some Pumpkins" and BC walked off-stage.
Now that didn't even happen, didn't it? Just some blahblah story made up by some blahblah journalist. Billy walked off the stage as it was the end of the show.

I'm sure he can deal with some morons screaming "Where's James". But so far, i haven't heard of anyone screaming James or d'Arcy. And for those who feel the urge, it might be more interesting to go to a James Iha gig and scream for Pumpkins.

One of the main reasons for the Pumpkins touring Europe first is definitely the festival season. Festivals = loads of people, everyone talks about SP.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-05-2007, 04:16 AM
the pumpkins were the most expensive act on pinkpop. the organiser said so in an interview a couple of weeks ago. this means they indeed made at least $500,000. and probably a lot more. i think $750,000 would be more realistic.

severin
06-05-2007, 06:41 AM
the pumpkins were the most expensive act on pinkpop. the organiser said so in an interview a couple of weeks ago. this means they indeed made at least $500,000. and probably a lot more. i think $750,000 would be more realistic.
yeah, 500.000 is on the low side for the headlining act of one of the big festivals. metallica make more than a million

MisterSquishyHalo
06-05-2007, 09:07 AM
So do the festival shows, so you won't go poor, then do small venue shows cheaper :)

Duke
06-05-2007, 09:50 AM
Going to Europe first was a good move. Starting here would have been a disaster as people would have freaked when Jeff and Ginger came out and would start heckling Billy which would make for some pretty weak shows. Everyone here now has more than enough time to get used to the new lineup so when they do return here the level of bs is kept to a minimum. There is also the financial aspect as there's more money to be made overseas, but Billy and Jimmy are rich anyway.

skipgo
06-05-2007, 10:11 AM
And as far as beng loyal to a piece of land because you're born on it... if you've never heard of that concept before, you really need to watch the news, get out more, talk to some people. It's probably the most hardcore issue in the world these days, and has been since the beginning of time, aside from religion(which, in many parts of the world, is directly tied into it).

I didn't say I'd never HEARD of the concept. I said I've never GOTTEN it. I think it's stupid. And yes, I watch plenty of news...I work for a newspaper for God's sake. I still think it's a stupid concept.

I mean, it's kind of like the times I've watched the Olympics with people that I know, and they're all getting excited for the US teams to win...and I think, why are you rooting for these people as if you know them? Just because we're born in the same country? That makes no sense. I know plenty of people born in the same TOWN as me who are complete assholes; why would I have some alligience to these people just because of something so random as "We're from the same country"? It's like racism, sexism, homophobia, or anything else that generalizes groups of people. It's just really flawed and I don't follow it. I understand that most people feel a NEED to have this sort of pack mentality, but I personally don't buy it. I see us as one big world of humans who are each as important as anyone else. Therefore, it shouldn't make any difference where the band plays their first shows. No matter where they start, they're playing for people who love them and are excited to be there.

Reyngel
06-05-2007, 02:43 PM
I didn't say I'd never HEARD of the concept. I said I've never GOTTEN it. I think it's stupid. And yes, I watch plenty of news...I work for a newspaper for God's sake. I still think it's a stupid concept.

I mean, it's kind of like the times I've watched the Olympics with people that I know, and they're all getting excited for the US teams to win...and I think, why are you rooting for these people as if you know them? Just because we're born in the same country? That makes no sense. I know plenty of people born in the same TOWN as me who are complete assholes; why would I have some alligience to these people just because of something so random as "We're from the same country"? It's like racism, sexism, homophobia, or anything else that generalizes groups of people. It's just really flawed and I don't follow it. I understand that most people feel a NEED to have this sort of pack mentality, but I personally don't buy it. I see us as one big world of humans who are each as important as anyone else. Therefore, it shouldn't make any difference where the band plays their first shows. No matter where they start, they're playing for people who love them and are excited to be there.



Competition makes the world what it is. You don't have to agree with it or like it, but surely you can "get" it.

skipgo
06-05-2007, 03:02 PM
well, when i say i don't 'get' it, I'm saying that I don't agree with it. I mean, I get the concept, I get the reasoning behind it, I understand that people have that need to feel like they belong to something, and that in order to do so, they have to separate themselves from others, but I personally think it's pointless. As I mentioned, I wasn't addressing your post, because it didn't seem that you were complaining about them playing Europe before they play here. I was talking about the people who are bitching and moaning about it. But at the end of everything, I realize that the way I feel about it won't change a damn thing, sorta like all the complaining about James and D'arcy being gone won't bring them back.
Y'know.