the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, also i am a homosexual

youre a dick for thinking this deserved its own thread

somebody lock this shit

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count. its one thing when johnny StarlaRuby33 posts his opinion but people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.

but i recognize these are not good songs

Either explain why, or fuck off.

yeah, billy has no spontaneity these days. he claims to have wanted to play these songs so badly, and yet he sort of sounds like he doesn't give a damn! maybe our ears are just used to the erratic drug induced antics of yore? i mean, i consider the '94 mtv music video awards to be the best version of disarm.

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count. its one thing when johnny StarlaRuby33 posts his opinion but people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.

by that logic nimrod should make a new thread everytime he posts


somebody ban this fuck

the old songs - the freshness is long gone.
agreed.

my brother might want your 7/28 ticket

Shame, ruined??? wtf mate. I love the new rendition. I love it enough that I hope they record it and release it as a b-side. but that would be too awesome to ever happen.

people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.

no we don't

maybe our ears are just used to the erratic drug induced antics of yore? i mean, i consider the '94 mtv music video awards to be the best version of disarm.

lol

ha, some people take this band so seriously. i totally agree with the post. the whole stage set-up, costumes are really insulting. it's like they're some fuckin' spinal tap nightmare, trying to push this band, or whatever the name "smashing pumpkins" means anymore, into the ground until it's just billy and three other people who we don't care about.

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count.


Give

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count.


Me

dont you understand that these people dont respect you at all, mayfuck? theyre new and they could care less about about you and your shit.

youre a nobody to them, you dont have any imaginary laurels to rest on, youre just some random scum. youll never be able to assert your authority here, theyre too great in numbers, too unruly. just give up

"i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting."

that's hpw i've felt about billy's material for a LONG time now.

but dude, billy is old. i still think of him from the MCIS era, but he's like 40. that has to do with it, i think. he's changed.

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count.

A

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count.


Break

If only I'd waited, you couldve saved me a lot of trouble Mayfuck.

ha, some people take this band so seriously. i totally agree with the post. the whole stage set-up, costumes are really insulting. it's like they're some fuckin' spinal tap nightmare, trying to push this band, or whatever the name "smashing pumpkins" means anymore, into the ground until it's just billy and three other people who we don't care about.

"insulting" is the perfect word for it, thank you. i couldnt pinpoint it.

As I just demonstrated, it's quality, not quantity. I could have your same post count by tomorrow if I wanted.

Ban this fuck-tard.

Either explain why, or fuck off.

when jimmy described the music as they were recording something to the effect of 'snakes of guitars' i had this impression of undulating riffs and interlocking melodies, that kind of complexity made gish, siamese dream and mcis musically rich but the new songs are actually rather straightfoward in their guitar work. its all very easy and there's no risk taking on these new songs. very modern rock radio friendly. there was always this bounce they had to their songs, e.g. geek usa, here is no why and siva. not relaly sure how to describe but that bounce has been gone since adore. probably related to when billy started writing songs on his piano as opposed to guitar. and it hink most of us can agree these are some of his weakest lyrics...still not sure what he's trying to convey with them but siamese dream is some of the most heartfelt stuff i've heard.

ha, some people take this band so seriously. i totally agree with the post. the whole stage set-up, costumes are really insulting. it's like they're some fuckin' spinal tap nightmare, trying to push this band, or whatever the name "smashing pumpkins" means anymore, into the ground until it's just billy and three other people who we don't care about.


ON TOUR SUMMER 2012
THE JIMMY CHAMBERLIN SMASHING PUMPKINS FAMILY & FRIENDS BAND

Shame, ruined??? wtf mate. I love the new rendition. I love it enough that I hope they record it and release it as a b-side. but that would be too awesome to ever happen.

i love the adore version. everyone seems to dislike it for its simplicity but i think thats the best part about it. it drags along and dissipates toward the end, its pretty melancholic. i love it. they turned it into a by the numbers modern rock song in the live show. the reworking of GATGC though is excellent. poppy.

Rant, rant, rant...

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, hopefully i can sell my 7/28 tix.

you honestly think this deserves its own thread? nobody gives a hell what you think.

I quite like the Silverfuck version...nice to see him get angry again.

when jimmy described the music as they were recording something to the effect of 'snakes of guitars' i had this impression of undulating riffs and interlocking melodies, that kind of complexity made gish, siamese dream and mcis musically rich but the new songs are actually rather straightfoward in their guitar work. its all very easy and there's no risk taking on these new songs. very modern rock radio friendly. there was always this bounce they had to their songs, e.g. geek usa, here is no why and siva. not relaly sure how to describe but that bounce has been gone since adore. probably related to when billy started writing songs on his piano as opposed to guitar. and it hink most of us can agree these are some of his weakest lyrics...still not sure what he's trying to convey with them but siamese dream is some of the most heartfelt stuff i've heard.

Tarantula is as complex in structure and arrangement as anything else they've done, and not particularly conventional. Vocally he projects much better than he has in the past, the vocals and drums are higher in the mix lending the whole thing an incredible sense of propulsion--it's a very "acrobatic" track, not unlike a lot of the voice work on TFE.

So... Which one of us is wrong? Or do I need to rack up another forty-eight thousand posts before I can weigh in?

he's fucking 40, quit living in the past

Tarantula is as complex in structure and arrangement as anything else they've done, and not particularly conventional. Vocally he projects much better than he has in the past, the vocals and drums are higher in the mix lending the whole thing an incredible sense of propulsion--it's a very "acrobatic" track, not unlike a lot of the voice work on TFE.

So... Which one of us is wrong? Or do I need to rack up another forty-eight thousand posts before I can weigh in?

i suppose you're right. i guess what mars it is the overall cheesiness of the track. those guitar solos are hella early 90s action b-movies.

i once read in an interview billy was toying aroun dthe idea of doing an acoustic album but bringing in less conventional instruments like trumpet, strings, whatever. he really should have gone in this direction. the piano/guitar stuff from the spun soundtrack was really nice.

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, hopefully i can sell my 7/28 tix.

I don't think somebody should be banned just for posting their opinion...
and thats just it, its his opinion and i'm sure that you've all got opinions too...
I completely disagree with what the original thread poster says...
I think he's dead wrong....

I've liked most of the stuff I've heard, the new stuff sounds really good and the old stuff is sounding pretty good too, maybe the freshness is gone from some of the old songs, but I think Billy is playing a lot of the old stuff for us, because he knows its what we want....they have only done 3 shows...
the more they play the old stuff live, I think the better it will sound and the less forced it will sound....
and who knows what will happen after the residency gigs and the festival dates this summer, maybe when/if the pumpkins start a world tour they'll drop more of the older songs out and play more of the new stuff....

I wouldn't mind it at all if they came out and played all new stuff and maybe threw in a few of the pumpkins old songs...
if you read on this board enough a lot of people want stuff from Gish, and SD and MCIS albums that are all over ten years old....
stuff billy wrote when he was a younger man, and he has changed(a change for the better in my opinion), so maybe he doesn't connect with those songs in the way he once did...

these pumpkins aren't anything like or near the $100 a ticket stadium filling wankers, who suck up people's money and put on a half ass greatest hits show aka the rolling stones...

he's fucking 40, quit living in the past

i would lend billy the same advice.

i am pretty lazy. i didn't want to sift through pages of the other thread. i thouht i'd make one for people who had negative opinions on the show since i saw a lot of praise in the other one.

i am pretty lazy. i didn't want to sift through pages of the other thread. i thouht i'd make one for people who had negative opinions on the show since i saw a lot of praise in the other one.

bullshit rationalization

and who knows what will happen after the residency gigs and the festival dates this summer

i'm kind of pessimistic abotu this too. Billy has flirted with the idea of fan/band interaction to create art. the machina mystery is the first incarnation of this idea. of course now its the machina mystery is a recurring joke around these parts and i agree it fell flat on its face along with accompanying cartoon. also remember the zwan dvd of footage of them in the recording process while fans watched? and now he wants to do the same idea with the residency gigs. i'm interested in seeing what he'll do but his past efforts were not thought out very well. also the user-content interface on the new website is not really anything groundbreaking. you cant just artificially create a community. we already have this at netphoria, this community has grown organically adn we already exchange ideas on this forum and the general chat forum. i'm not so sure what he's trying to accomplish with the new site.




these pumpkins aren't anything like or near the $100 a ticket stadium filling wankers, who suck up people's money and put on a half ass greatest hits show aka the rolling stones...

my impression is that they're in a transistional state right now where they have one foot in the glory days and the other foot inching toward rolling stones territory. it just really depends on where billy goes artisitcally after zeitgeist

bullshit rationalization

no its very true. but yes the attention. i love it. i bathe in it. i am a board diva and i love every minute of it. its fantastic

dude you forgot about the hours you wasted downloading the show and buying the ticket. More time wasted.




I like the new stuff enough but I admit it's not yet like the old music - a lot of my enthusiasm is for the energy that seems to be back.

who is this guy to address me by my first name?

40 is the new 30, didn't you get the memo?

I really don't see how one can not like most of the new material...it's up there with some of the best. And we haven't even heard the album yet, so haters should STFU.

seriously future boy get on this. i want fingerprints, background check, criminal record, medical history on this guy. nobody does this. not once, not never. nobody

i suppose you're right. i guess what mars it is the overall cheesiness of the track. those guitar solos are hella early 90s action b-movies.

i once read in an interview billy was toying aroun dthe idea of doing an acoustic album but bringing in less conventional instruments like trumpet, strings, whatever. he really should have gone in this direction. the piano/guitar stuff from the spun soundtrack was really nice.

But the Pumpkins have always been so unabashedly cheesy, particularly when it comes to those Siamese Dream lyrics you lauded, and Corgan has admitted that. And that's what has made the band over the years at once so attractive and repulsive. Use Corgan's voice as an example: the man has no right to be singing, but that's where the attraction lies. The voice is simultaneously cringe-worthy and compelling for its vulnerability. The same might be said about his "costumes" over the years. But getting back to guitars, Corgan is a metal-head and he makes no beef about it. He wanted his band to sound like Black Sabbath, knowing completely well what their critical reputation is, and he just threw himself into it with incredible energy and passion. That, for me, is where the attraction lies and why I continue to listen to whatever the guy puts out there.

First, I will throw out amazment that people are telling someone who has, what, 46,000+ posts that his opinion doesn't matter. To those of you who did - maybe it is you who should keep your ignorant opinions to yourselves. By opening your mouth (or more specifically typing on the keyboard), you are exposing your stupidity. Let me guess - those who posted the negative comments about Mayfuck's opionion have an average age of 15? Maybe 16?

I've got all of 10 or so posts, and even I can respect someone who has offered up that many comments about probably the one band that I love more than any other.

That being said, I've listened to them for 15+ years. I've gone into every album, be it the original SP, Zwan, TFE, with great hope for what the album might bring. And with that, I agree with Mayfuck:
i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does.

I, too, have listened to all of the Paris show, and I'm hoping that my indifference to what I have heard so far is a result of the music being "new" and that the depth of it might be lost in the fact that it is not a studio release.

I remember listening to MCIS for the first couple of times and not getting it. 10+ years later and it is almost a daily listen. Hopefully the same thing happens here.

may fuck... may you go fuck yourself.

First, I will throw out amazment that people are telling someone who has, what, 46,000+ posts that his opinion doesn't matter. To those of you who did - maybe it is you who should keep your ignorant opinions to yourselves. By opening your mouth (or more specifically typing on the keyboard), you are exposing your stupidity. Let me guess - those who posted the negative comments about Mayfuck's opionion have an average age of 15? Maybe 16?

I've got all of 10 or so posts, and even I can respect someone who has offered up that many comments about probably the one band that I love more than any other.

That being said, I've listened to them for 15+ years. I've gone into every album, be it the original SP, Zwan, TFE, with great hope for what the album might bring. And with that, I agree with Mayfuck:


I, too, have listened to all of the Paris show, and I'm hoping that my indifference to what I have heard so far is a result of the music being "new" and that the depth of it might be lost in the fact that it is not a studio release.

I remember listening to MCIS for the first couple of times and not getting it. 10+ years later and it is almost a daily listen. Hopefully the same thing happens here.

What the hell does post-count matter? Some of the most musically-ignorant shit I've ever heard has come from members with tens of thousands of posts. Just look at that Dogfighter kid (or whatever his name is): he'll be at fifty-thousand before you know it, and he's borderline retarded.

I'm sorry Dogfighter, but it's true, you're retarded :(

who is this guy to address me by my first name?


:rofl:

You're joking right...?

























Please Christ tell me you're joking.

I'm starting to think a few of the people here have seriously lost touch with reality.

But the Pumpkins have always been so unabashedly cheesy, particularly when it comes to those Siamese Dream lyrics you lauded, and Corgan has admitted that. And that's what has made the band over the years at once so attractive and repulsive. Use Corgan's voice as an example: the man has no right to be singing, but that's where the attraction lies. The voice is simultaneously cringe-worthy and compelling for its vulnerability. The same might be said about his "costumes" over the years. But getting back to guitars, Corgan is a metal-head and he makes no beef about it. He wanted his band to sound like Black Sabbath, knowing completely well what their critical reputation is, and he just threw himself into it with incredible energy and passion. That, for me, is where the attraction lies and why I continue to listen to whatever the guy puts out there.

well thankfully he was also into the cure and my bloody valentine.

its better to burn out than to fade away. i dont see amazing things in the future for the pumpkins, but atleast i finally get to see them live. the whole thing was definitely over in 2000. this is a new thing. sp2 truly. the angst is gone.

I agree with him completely actually. This touring band has no soul. It's just one obligatory run through after the other.

What the hell does post-count matter? Some of the most musically-ignorant shit I've ever heard has come from members with tens of thousands of posts. Just look at that Dogfighter kid (or whatever his name is): he'll be at fifty-thousand before you know it, and he's borderline retarded.

I'm sorry Dogfighter, but it's true, you're retarded :(

I'm not saying that a high post count is the sole indicator of quality - no more than someone who has 100 posts cannot post anything of quality.

Only that it is someone who has an firm interest (and I would guess a lengthy interest, unless he/she spends all their time posting here).

I could understand if I got flamed if I came in here stating that the upcoming Lindsey Lohan album had more potential than this album. I wouldn't expect to be flamed for voicing an opinion on my first impression of their first show back...

the angst is gone.

I agree with that, but I don't mourn it. There's a very different spirit to these shows that, at least to me, is equally energetic. There's a joy to the music, a positivity (and I don't mean the infantile, cartoonish, happy-happy Zwan aesthetic), and it's demonstrated in re-workings of older songs (i.e. Shame).

I agree with him completely actually. This touring band has no soul. It's just one obligatory run through after the other.

They've played three shows.

But the Pumpkins have always been so unabashedly cheesy, particularly when it comes to those Siamese Dream lyrics you lauded, and Corgan has admitted that. And that's what has made the band over the years at once so attractive and repulsive. Use Corgan's voice as an example: the man has no right to be singing, but that's where the attraction lies. The voice is simultaneously cringe-worthy and compelling for its vulnerability. The same might be said about his "costumes" over the years. But getting back to guitars, Corgan is a metal-head and he makes no beef about it. He wanted his band to sound like Black Sabbath, knowing completely well what their critical reputation is, and he just threw himself into it with incredible energy and passion. That, for me, is where the attraction lies and why I continue to listen to whatever the guy puts out there.

That's a great summary of them...

I wouldn't expect to be flamed for voicing an opinion on my first impression of their first show back...

He was voicing opinion as fact. It's something most people on here seem to do a lot.

I agree with that, but I don't mourn it. There's a very different spirit to these shows that, at least to me, is equally energetic. There's a joy to the music, a positivity (and I don't mean the infantile, cartoonish, happy-happy Zwan aesthetic), and it's demonstrated in re-workings of older songs (i.e. Shame).

It's hard not to mourn if the angst, anger, rock, pissed-off-ness is what you like most about them. Not to say that the happy or energetic or joyous isn't good, or that I won't like it (time will tell), but I will buy the new album in the hope that I pop it in my CD player and my speakers spew rock...

when jimmy described the music as they were recording something to the effect of 'snakes of guitars' i had this impression of undulating riffs and interlocking melodies, that kind of complexity made gish, siamese dream and mcis musically rich but the new songs are actually rather straightfoward in their guitar work. its all very easy and there's no risk taking on these new songs. very modern rock radio friendly. there was always this bounce they had to their songs, e.g. geek usa, here is no why and siva. not relaly sure how to describe but that bounce has been gone since adore. probably related to when billy started writing songs on his piano as opposed to guitar. and it hink most of us can agree these are some of his weakest lyrics...still not sure what he's trying to convey with them but siamese dream is some of the most heartfelt stuff i've heard.

I agree with you about some things about this new material. As for you selling your pumpkins tickets - yeah right.

Like Gossamer, sounds like a riff out of my ass at the beggining (I think WhatColor described it as "A lesson in pull on/pull off's" from an instructional tape or something).. . I see what you mean about the bounce thing...good ear.

He was voicing opinion as fact. It's something most people on here seem to do a lot.

So then maybe it is my bad for being a newbie and not knowing the personalities/posting trends of people. I guess I still need to become jaded :)

Tarantula is as complex in structure and arrangement as anything else they've done, and not particularly conventional. Vocally he projects much better than he has in the past, the vocals and drums are higher in the mix lending the whole thing an incredible sense of propulsion--it's a very "acrobatic" track, not unlike a lot of the voice work on TFE.

So... Which one of us is wrong? Or do I need to rack up another forty-eight thousand posts before I can weigh in?
d00d ... play the riff on your acoustic guitar by itself and see how stupid it is.

d00d ... play the riff on your acoustic guitar by itself and see how stupid it is.

d00d, I've played the riff... Go play Today, or Disarm. It's a minor part of an incredibly non-linear song with a really de-stabilizing number of chord changes. It sounds like it's coming off the rails half the time. It's incredibly kinetic.

There is just too much history and material from the original line-up to just let the new incarnation of the band set in right now. When I see the new video clips I kind of feel empty and I know Billy wishes James and D'arcy were out there instead of those cardboard cut-outs. I'm down with all the new stuff to a degree. All I have to say is that ain't the Pumpkins on that stage. Its just Billy and Jimmy playing their songs with a little help from their friends.

bc is still rockin

Nostalgia is dangerous. At the very least, even if you hate everything "new" Pumpkins do from now on, maybe you'll be liberated from obsessive nostalgia.

I'm not saying that a high post count is the sole indicator of quality

Again, post count is not an indicator of quality at all. Like I said, any one of us could have May Fuck's post count beat by the end of tomorrow if we really wanted to. I've been a die-hard Pumpkins fan for over 15 years, and I've been checking this board since it started, yet my post count is less than 50. Does that make my, or anyone else's, opinion any less valid than May Fuck's?

I wasted 3 seconds of my lfie clicking on this thread.

I agree with him completely actually. This touring band has no soul. It's just one obligatory run through after the other.
You must be listening to a 2000 show. Most of those epitomize soullessness.

I can understand not liking the new material...I guess. But all of these people trying to pretend like the Paris show is some kind of lifeless shell of what SP used to be just baffle me. It seems to me like people want to cling to their preconceptions of what the band should be rather than believe their own lying ears.

its better to burn out than to fade away. i dont see amazing things in the future for the pumpkins, but atleast i finally get to see them live. the whole thing was definitely over in 2000. this is a new thing. sp2 truly. the angst is gone.

that's the dumbest and most presumptuous thing i've ever heard on these boards.

you've heard ONE live show (not to mention it was their very first show back)... haven't even heard the new album yet, and now you're ALREADY writting them off as "sp2" and "definately over in 2000". you act as though they've been back together for a year.


you dumbass.

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count.

HAHA if only it worked that way

You must be listening to a 2000 show. Most of those epitomize soullessness.

I can understand not liking the new material...I guess. But all of these people trying to pretend like the Paris show is some kind of lifeless shell of what SP used to be just baffle me. It seems to me like people want to cling to their preconceptions of what the band should be rather than believe their own lying ears.

I wouldn't say lifeless. There was a vague upbeat positivity-ness abotu that show but do you really think these new shows were played with the same energy, fervor and urgency of some of the gish, sd or mcis shows? it was around adore where it got kind of dog and pony. and i agree with you about the 2000 shows, they were clearly tired by then. no one likes to hear someone saying they can't rock out anymore but if you're gonna go back to aggressive music i think you have to have the sentiment and energy to back that up, and at billy's age along with his current everythings-about-positivity attitude, i don tthink it suits him well. like i said he still has the capacity to make beautiful music, evident in the non-released zwan material but we will not get to hear it because he's like a baseball player trying to hit a home run on his first at-bat in seven years and im' calling strike one so far.

He was voicing opinion as fact. It's something most people on here seem to do a lot.

no one does this. did you forget we're arguing about art? its subjective by nature, so we're not going to precede every sentence with the phhrase "in my opinion..." dude its already implied that we are voicing our opininos.

But why do we always have to compare everything to what's come before? Why can't we just look at things for what they are as opposed to what we think they ought to be? That's something I never understood about all the TFE criticism.

no one does this. did you forget we're arguing about art? its subjective by nature, so we're not going to precede every sentence with the phhrase "in my opinion..." dude its already implied that we are voicing our opininos.

But you didn't back it up. Why say anything at all? Initially you weren't contributing anything whatsoever to the discussion.

Again, post count is not an indicator of quality at all. Like I said, any one of us could have May Fuck's post count beat by the end of tomorrow if we really wanted to. I've been a die-hard Pumpkins fan for over 15 years, and I've been checking this board since it started, yet my post count is less than 50. Does that make my, or anyone else's, opinion any less valid than May Fuck's?

No, which is why I said that someone with a low post count can post a meaningful thought/opinion.

This thread needs to die....

And this "subjective" notion of art is a huge cop-out and is basically false. It's something ninth grade English students delude themselves into believing. There's a lot of music and literature out there that I can explain to you the value of that I simply can't stand.

I think that if you went into the live set expecting to feel the same magic and energy that you felt the first time you heard "Quiet" on album you definitely be upset. I actually heard most of the SD live before I had ever heard them on album. My best friend invited me to go see them at William & Mary Hall in the spring of 1994. I had really dug "Drown" and "Cherub Rock" but was so enamored with Nirvana at the time that I only half-heartedly agreed to go. Long story short - the band totally rocked me with songs like "Geek USA" and "Hummer" but Billy was also jamming some Van Halen riffs too which kindof excited me. Went out the next day and bought both Gish and SD. To this day, I still get goosebumps when I hear the climax to "Quiet". It was so incredibly lush with sound and emotion...the live interpretation really hadn't prepared me at all for it.

Billy did soooo much in the studio that it was absolutely impossible to pull it off with the same effect live. He had like a Tom Scholtz (Boston)-type obsession in the studio when he put together SD. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many other rock albums with as much tracking and layering from the vocals down to the various melody guitar lines interspersed throughout. In my opinion he reached rock perfection with that album. His lyrics even had more impact not only because they were so straight-on and from the heart but because his voice was mixed beautifully with the music. His voice was very much one with those tunes...fit in like another instrument with it's layered dreaminess. That album was his therapy session. It was Billy celebrating the end of a crippling writer's block. He commented in the liner notes of the SD tab book that while he is always concerned with the quality of his live performance, he approaches the studio work with alot more scrutiny and detail. He reasons that while the live performances are for the moment, the album has to stand the test the time and you want to absolutely capture in it's entirety your creative vision. He totally did that and then some with SD. It's still one of the only albums that I can listen to on loop and never hit fast-forward or tire of.

I'm saying all of this to hopefully convince you to withhold final judgement of these tunes until you hear them in their finished studio state. Billy has only ever let me down once in the studio and that was with Machina. The Arising tour tricked me into thinking that he was back with Jimmy and ready to slam us with a rock album. It turned out that he produced the life out of a batch of tunes that he really didn't seem to be fully into. I hear energy in these songs and have the feeling that Jimmy isn't exaggerating about the snakes of guitar that we'll hear on this album. Go over to youtube and check out some of the SD tunes played live prior to the album release and tell me if you think they sound as rich and multidimensional as they did on disk.

no this thread is funny, let it live!!!

you truly are the egg of hope

But why do we always have to compare everything to what's come before? Why can't we just look at things for what they are as opposed to what we think they ought to be? That's something I never understood about all the TFE criticism.

it's called context.

1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : ENVIRONMENT, SETTING

you truly are the egg of hope

thank you

So, in other words, we're supposed to look at Picasso's cubist work in relation to his blue period? No. We're supposed to look at it in relation to whatever else is going on at the time, or in the case of a heavy like Picasso, based on his own internal trajectory. But it's not a qualitative thing. It's only useful to compare something to past work if the artist in question is trying to repeat prior accomplishments (which is a shitty thing to do anyway). And as it stands, I'm not convinced one way or the other that that's what's happening, here.

Let's put it this way: in what way is it useful to compare TheFutureEmbrace to Gish?

Stop quoting the fucking dictionary, that is so dumb.

then, are you giving more importance to that than say, how the songs grab you in their own right?

Billy did soooo much in the studio that it was absolutely impossible to pull it off with the same effect live. He had like a Tom Scholtz (Boston)-type obsession in the studio when he put together SD. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many other rock albums with as much tracking and layering from the vocals down to the various melody guitar lines interspersed throughout. In my opinion he reached rock perfection with that album. His lyrics even had more impact not only because they were so straight-on and from the heart but because his voice was mixed beautifully with the music. His voice was very much one with those tunes...fit in like another instrument with it's layered dreaminess. That album was his therapy session. It was Billy celebrating the end of a crippling writer's block. He commented in the liner notes of the SD tab book that while he is always concerned with the quality of his live performance, he approaches the studio work with alot more scrutiny and detail. He reasons that while the live performances are for the moment, the album has to stand the test the time and you want to absolutely capture in it's entirety your creative vision. He totally did that and then some with SD. It's still one of the only albums that I can listen to on loop and never hit fast-forward or tire of.

Wonderfully put. I don't deny Zeitgeist has the potentially to be a lot better in its studio form. I agree with you about Arising too and I would say that disappointment also applies to Zwan. Also I was not there in Paris to see it firsthand and that may cloud my judgment. But one thing I can tell is when I listen to a great boot from '93 or '96 I feel a jealousness that I was not there. I dont feel nowhere near the same when I listened to the Paris boot.

boo fucking hoo.

So, in other words, we're supposed to look at Picasso's cubist work in relation to his blue period? No.

Absolutely wrong wrong wrong. Comparing and contrasting an artist's development between periods and styles is necessary in evaluating art history, c'mon any art history college course will tell you this. This is in addition to comparing works of its own time as well as those in the past. Context is absoultely necessary in understand a piece.

boo fucking hoo.

feche a sua boca!

Absolutely wrong wrong wrong. Comparing and contrasting an artist's development between periods and styles is necessary in evaluating art history, c'mon any art history college course will tell you this. This is in addition to comparing works of its own time as well as those in the past. Context is absoultely necessary in understand a piece.

I know that, but my point is that the sense of context you're bringing to this is so specific and doesn't seem to be particularly useful. You leapt from 1996 to 2007 without batting an eye. To me, there's been a pretty logical evolution from Pumpkins/Billy Corgan circa 2000 to Pumpkins in Paris last week.

someone with over 20,000 posts has obviously been taken over by nostolgia and needs to stop his bitching. you wanna whine about "soulless" tours? go listen to the 2000 shows ya fucking baby.

caliphornia do you really live in california? i think we should hang out and play some b-ball

caliphornia do you really live in california? i think we should hang out and play some b-ball

yes, do you really live in chile? i will have to show you some tapes from 2000.

yeah, billy has no spontaneity these days. he claims to have wanted to play these songs so badly, and yet he sort of sounds like he doesn't give a damn! maybe our ears are just used to the erratic drug induced antics of yore? i mean, i consider the '94 mtv music video awards to be the best version of disarm.
:noway: That is the worst version of disarm I've ever heard.

hey look I'm julio I'm disappointed by life

me and julio down by the school yard

OP is such a drama queen.

:noway: That is the worst version of disarm I've ever heard.

Yeah, the one in Vieuphoria (and Earphoria) is MUCH better. :)

However, I do agree that everything about the performances on this tour sounds calculated.

:noway: That is the worst version of disarm I've ever heard.

I agree.

One of the few times where I was just like wow...this is terrible.

love the mtv '94 disarm. LOVE IT. raw and angry

well now I guess that goes to show how different our views on what's good in the land of the pumpkins. I will probably continue to love the pumpkins new music for many years while you will cling to a 5 year window and shake your fist at the rest. Sucks to be you. I feel bad for you but then I realize that you could very easily just find something else to do with your time and that's it's really your fault that you allow yourself to waste energy downloading, listening, and following a band that you deem lame these days.

bootlegs take alot of the dynamics out of the show...just wait till they come around and you really see them live

Yeah, the one in Vieuphoria (and Earphoria) is MUCH better. :)


hell yeah. It's the same arrangement as the MTV video award show but in Vieuphoria billy's voice wasn't in shambles and he didn't break a string and have a drama queen moment over it.

The version of "Disarm" on the 1994 MTV Music Awards is indeed entertaining...but for all the wrong reasons, I'm afraid! (And this is from a person who would always prefer to hear the electric version on tour.) It's as if Bill is having an onstage hissy-fit about his shitty experience (so shitty he refused to comment about the matter) on the Lollapalooza tour.

Now, as far as Mayfuck...I think he is making a valid point about his gut feelings towards what he has heard of the new material. Whether you agree with his perception or not, he has a high post count because he has actually been here for a good few years (not because he "+ 1's") and actually does try to put some thought into his words.

I agree with Mayfuck.

And listen, for the last ten years I've been defending "the latest Billy" to people who were leaving their Pumpkin phase, outgrowing the genre, and moving on. But now that, for the first time, I'm on the other side of it, it's kind of embarrassing.

Since Mellon Collie, everything has been no more than satisfactory. But I tried so hard to like it that after 100 listens it was ingrained into my life even though I knew it wasn't that great deep down. Since 1997, I've been fighting against admitting that they had hit a peak and would never reach it again. But that's ok, in a way it was a nice marker for me to see my own development.

The Future Embrace I was almost indifferent to, but I liked some of the songs, and that was enough to make me give it the OK. But then if you really ask me, I think 3 or 4 songs are good... and the rest is a waste of time. So why have I listened to it some 60 times? Why do I know all the songs? Habit I guess. But I learned something there, and now I recognize it all too clearly.

This is the first time we've had new material and I've listened to it (3 hours of it, for God's sake) and felt nothing. No excitement, no interest, not even confusion. I just hear dried up songs that were best left in 1993, or in 1996. And new songs that don't go anywhere. Satisfactory performances all around... great. The opposite of vitality.

But I'm not deeply hurt, or betrayed, or anything like that. I'm just indifferent. It's just a bunch of mildness. And I've waited some 5 projects now for that mildness to go away, but I don't think it ever will again.

In a different light, that mildness made for some good songs, but songs that highlighted the mildness. How about What Have They Done to Me?, Solace and Serenity, With Every Light, or Try, Try, Try? That's really the only kind of song Billy should be making. It would be much more dignified, and in a way much less embarrassing. Instead he keeps faking resurgence. MACHINA THE RETURN TO ROCK ALBUM! ZWAN THE RETURN TO ROCK ALBUM! ZEITGEIST THE RETURN TO ROCK ALBUM! Yeah right. Rock only happens by necessity, by need. Not by consciously trying to make it happen.

Out of the new songs, I guess Never Lost isn't bad. The rest is mostly apeish. Goassamer repeats a boring riff for a while... then dicks around with some delay... then involves some nonsensical political yelling. And the board loves it. Tarantula is so obviously forced, and even then half-assed. The solos are less focused or inspired than even some of the more spontaneous ones (TAFH, Plume, live stuff) and the guitar tone is ass.

I miss Zwan. At least they were comparatively unpretentious and didn't wear goofy clothes and cloud their music with grand gestures.

I'll wait to hear the album, but unless it's as good as BC & JC boast it to be, I will probably sit through it in idle indifference.

love the mtv '94 disarm. LOVE IT. raw and angry
YEAH! My favorite too

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count. its one thing when johnny StarlaRuby33 posts his opinion but people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.
how many decades of your life that you will never get back have you wasted here?

my thoughts exactly, grape. but i love adore and I do enjoy MACHINA only in doses (that is i get the urge to listen to it once every 1 or 2 months, and when that urge comes its extremely satisfying to listen to it). and i actually like thefutureembrace, ive really come around on it. besides that god awful beegees cover, its a solid album. ditto mary star of the sea which makes a fine summer record. so no i'm not stuck in 1991-1996 as someone else suggested.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QESQQa9rqp4

the best thing about the way smashing pumpkins used to play live is that they seemed to give half a fuck about approximating the album, not changing songs because they were sick of playing them as they do now, but almost as if they couldn't bear to play them without unleashing some terrifying emotional frenzy. the quintessential smashing pumpkins moment is the ending, when billy tries to pull of some rock 'n roll stunt, trips, and walks off stage totally ashamed. this was totally different from the kind of fun chaos other bands try to create, it was an upsetting outburst. that's what made me love smashing pumpkins.

in a lot of ways i agree with julio's opinion (in his first post).. I just wouldn't put it as harshy as he has.

I read this board before listening to the boot.. so i had HIGH FUCKING HOPES.. this board was all over that show like a fat kid on a cupcake.. and it's not the norm for this board to be that quickly accepting of SP related things.

I don't agree that this is their best ever, i didn't think SIYL was the best I heard it, the new version of shame is not as great as people are making it out to be (the original is the best version, hands down), and a lot of the hits do sound like they are being run through. If anything, it sounds like the band isn't as rehearsed as they should be, so im optimistic that as the shows go on, the group will grow into the material. But if anything it sounded like everyone on that stage was listening to their own individual parts and not to each other as a band.. a language that billy, james, darcy and jimmy developed so well as the years progressed. this new lineup has a way to go before they reach that point.. but i think they will do alright.

I love the new songs. None of them hit me on the first listen, but they have been growing on me and i have caught myself humming some of the hooks.. but i'm loving the overall jam type vibe this new material has and i'm not gonna really complain until i hear the actual record.

I'll tell you what, this whole boot has givin me a whole new perspective of this board, however. Apparently, all it really takes to please the ''picky'' fans at this board is billy slapping on heavy distortion and screaming his balls off.. after all of the years of complaining about machina, tfe, zwan, blah blah blah.. i figured maybe this board was looking for something of more substance than what they were being offered, kinda like everyone was growing and maturing as music listeners. nope "GIVE ME TEH LOUD NOISES!! SHAME GOOD CAUSE IT HAS LOUD EVERYWHEREZ!"

in conclusion, mayfuck has a valid point, he just presents his opinion in a manner that sets him up for flame wars.

Imagine you're Billy, or any other singer/songwriter, how many times can you play Disarm before becoming tired of it? I wonder how many times Billy has played that song and other hits over the years? 10,000 times? I thought he did a good job with it, considering how many times it's been played over and over. I think though it could have used a little bit more energy since this was the first show back together in seven years.

disarm was one of the only old songs from this show that actually made me feel chills..

Imagine you're Billy, or any other singer/songwriter, how many times can you play Disarm before becoming tired of it? I wonder how many times Billy has played that song and other hits over the years? 10,000 times? I thought he did a good job with it, considering how many times it's been played over and over. I think though it could have used a little bit more energy since this was the first show back together in seven years.

yeah, i think that kind of energy definitely has an expiration date. i'm not complaining about that at all! there's a thread somewhere that somebody posted today that compares the endings of bullet with butterfly wings from two dates during the MCIS era and the May 22 show and the latter actually sounds the best. so~

i figured maybe this board was looking for something of more substance than what they were being offered, kinda like everyone was growing and maturing as music listeners. .

if this were the case more people would like TheFutureEmbrace

not really. but that's a whole other debate..

Imagine you're Billy, or any other singer/songwriter, how many times can you play Disarm before becoming tired of it? I wonder how many times Billy has played that song and other hits over the years? 10,000 times?

That's a great point. He should stop playing it. And he did for a while, and there was much rejoicing (for me).

yeah, i think that kind of energy definitely has an expiration date.

the song only loses its emotion or energy if you stop feeling that emotion or energy, if the song loses its meaning or you become disconnected from the emotion that was present at the moment of creation...
sometimes time transforms songs and changes the emotion/energy of a song
some songs fall out of context...
some songs never lose their relevance...

I think a band that is a good representative of this is U2, they aren't as young as they once were and they may not rock as hard as they once did, but they still bring a great depth of emotion and energy to their live performances of songs that they wrote 20 years ago....
Sunday Bloody Sunday
Where the Streets Have no Name
New Years Day
I still Haven't found what I'm Looking for
Bad
Pride(in the name of love)
Bullet the Blue Sky
Running to Stand Still

some of the old tunes from this show had a good emotional impact to them, which indicates billy is still feeling them (disarm, to sheila, rocket, 33, hummer, home) but others were just kinda bland sounding.

i really liked the acoustic version of rocket, i thought he'd play rocket on this tour, but I wouldn't have guessed it would have been acoustic, i thought they'd rock it out...
billy says he goes through phases of liking and not liking songs...
i think that maybe rocket is a song whose lyrics billy still really connects with...

people get old, your heroes are flawed, insert a pink floyd lyric here

I'll tell you what, this whole boot has givin me a whole new perspective of this board, however. Apparently, all it really takes to please the ''picky'' fans at this board is billy slapping on heavy distortion and screaming his balls off.. after all of the years of complaining about machina, tfe, zwan, blah blah blah.. i figured maybe this board was looking for something of more substance than what they were being offered, kinda like everyone was growing and maturing as music listeners. nope "GIVE ME TEH LOUD NOISES!! SHAME GOOD CAUSE IT HAS LOUD EVERYWHEREZ!"
I think that's a totally unfair assessment. To suggest that the only thing that really gets the average jaded Netphorian excited is distorted guitars is frankly just a little ignorant. Look at it this way, the only things in the past 5-6 years that have gotten anything even close to a similar amount of love from Netphoria as the Paris boot has gotten were the Djali Zwan material and the Chicago songs. That can hardly be due to the heavy distortion and screaming.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't love the new version of Shame because its loud. I like it because instead of being a 7 minute song that's so long and boring that it feels twice that, its now a 5 minute song that feels like a lot less. I know the original version of the song has its fans, and I don't begrudge anyone for it, but there's no denying that there's something to the fact that a lot of fans of the band have changed their view of the song based on the new version. Chalking it up to "oh you guys just wanted loud guitars" is just missing the point.

Maybe Netphoria is being too easy on this new stuff. I guess that's possible, although I don't feel that the praise is unwarranted. For the life of me I can't see particularly why so many people here would suddenly start giving Billy the benefit of the doubt now for no good reason.

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, hopefully i can sell my 7/28 tix.


Of the thirty songs they played less than half were even singles, much less hits Julio. Many of the old standards were reworked, which at least shows an effort on the Pumpkins part to renew them in a fresh and exciting way. Silverfuck sounds amazing. This bizzaro world rhetoric about the band not having that energy just isn't compatable with reality. When I listen to this Paris boot I hear the band that I fell in love with, yet more importantly, I'm inspired to the point that I remember why. They are the Smashing Pumpkins. Not to be confused with yesterdays Smashing Pumpkins, or tommorows Smashing Pumpkins. This idealism about them being this once perfect band that gradually sold it's soul over the years for no other purpose than to serve big bad bald Billy's ego has just got to fucking die already. They have never sounded better than on this boot, and I honestly believe this. The Earphoria disc for example does not make me nearly as proud to be a Pumpkin fan as this Paris boot does... I mean, I know people like to complain when Billy sings competantly, but I enjoy not having to cringe when listening to a live Pumpkin recording. I don't know, that just my preferance. I've heard much sloppier playing on the bands part too.

The Pumpkins too me are a truly remarkable and inspirational band. The important thing is that this band fucking soldiers on. Through all of the bullshit, the failed records, the disgraceful abandonment of many fans, the cheap shots from journalists and other artists and radio dj's... they keep fucking going on. It's because there is a magic there that represents everything that is good about music. They can comandeer a vast array of musical styles, and traverse an astounding emotional range. Jimmy's drumming in this show is fucking incredible. We should be trumpeting that. United States has a ferocity that is at once grandiose and yet understated. It doesn't force itself on you. Starz is a dumb fucking pop song, but it's more exciting and inspired than Today for crying out loud. "MY BELLY STIIIIINNNNGSSS" fuck! If Gossamer were the opening song on Gish nobody would dare question it's brilliance, but because the Pumpkins are such a familiar band it is subject to indifference. It seems like there is some faerie tale version of a perfect rock band's perfect song, and if they don't live up to that, than the song is inconsequential. I hear some amazing psychedelia in this recording. I'm loving that Billy and Jimmy had the nerve to come up with a seventeen minute b-side that incorperates elements of new wave, metal, psychedelia, drone, proto-goth etc... They don't have to fucking do that. They could just as easily churn out a bunch of 4/4 verse chorus verse chorus rehashes of old hits and call it a comeback. I mean, it sucks that Billy can't write lyrics any more but oh well, every band has it's flaws.

The band has had it's detractors through every single era of their existence for a reason. They aren't perfect. You just have to rediscover what it is that made them endearing to you in the first place.

[/I am now Davin]

Julio is my favorite troll

Julio is my favorite troll



:)

he's fucking 40, quit living in the past

EXACTLY! The reason I love this board is the same reason it pisses me the F off sometimes. "the complex nature of the songs blah, blah, blah. . blah".

Get over it already. . .

it pisses me the F off sometimes. .

:rofl:

Tarantula is as complex in structure and arrangement as anything else they've done, and not particularly conventional. Vocally he projects much better than he has in the past, the vocals and drums are higher in the mix lending the whole thing an incredible sense of propulsion--it's a very "acrobatic" track, not unlike a lot of the voice work on TFE.

So... Which one of us is wrong? Or do I need to rack up another forty-eight thousand posts before I can weigh in?

Tarantuala is nothing Cheap Trick has not been doing for 30 years now.

[QUOTE=Mayfuck]i'm kind of pessimistic abotu this too. Billy has flirted with the idea of fan/band interaction to create art. [quote]



Wrong Gish Month was firtst. It's been one cluster fuck after another ever since.

40 is the new 30, didn't you get the memo?

I really don't see how one can not like most of the new material...it's up there with some of the best. And we haven't even heard the album yet, so haters should STFU.


See this is why we hate people like you. You can not honestly mean it's up there with the best.

tarantula isnt' even complex by the way in terms of structure. there's abotu one detour between the verse chorus verse chorus middle quiet part>rocking ending structue. its not as complex a structure as geek usa for example.

Geek usa is quite phenomenal. when i listen to it i dont even feel like it has a complex structure. its catchy and the structure feels accessible but its not verse chorus verse. the reason is each segment flows so naturally to one another that you dont feel challenged to break it down, you just go for the ride. tarantula does not feel this natural at all.

Again, post count is not an indicator of quality at all. Like I said, any one of us could have May Fuck's post count beat by the end of tomorrow if we really wanted to. I've been a die-hard Pumpkins fan for over 15 years, and I've been checking this board since it started, yet my post count is less than 50. Does that make my, or anyone else's, opinion any less valid than May Fuck's?

Go ahead beat it by the end of tomorrow. I dare you. See once again why we hate people liek you. You just say fucking stupid shit.

But why do we always have to compare everything to what's come before? Why can't we just look at things for what they are as opposed to what we think they ought to be? That's something I never understood about all the TFE criticism.

If we looke d at who they are none of us would be talking because without the history of this band none of us would care.

it's called context.

1 : the parts of a discourse that surround a word or passage and can throw light on its meaning
2 : the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : ENVIRONMENT, SETTING

Don't even try they hate logic.

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, also i am a homosexual

This post is so ridiculous I don't know whether to take it seriously or not. It's a shame that your bitterness and faggotry has blinded you, that you cannot even see and hear properly.

This post is so ridiculous I don't know whether to take it seriously or not. It's a shame that your bitterness and faggotry has blinded you, that you cannot even see and hear properly.

See and agian you guys wonder why we hate new people.

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count. its one thing when johnny StarlaRuby33 posts his opinion but people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.


Cunt Factor 9000

lol

"Cunt Factor 9000"

totally my favorite band...

Have you heard Rhino Clit? Elephant Mess?

Hello posters, you DO know that Billy is crazy, right?

Right?

This thread does not exist.

i love how the people who spend WAY too much time on this board pretend their opinions = fact above everyone else. they think post count = the level of fan you are.

it's called opinion, and when people like the new songs, that's perfectly okay. don't feel like you need to prove them wrong just because they disagree with you. because it just makes you look like a bitter old washup who spends way too much time wasting his life at a SP forum.

Wonderfully put. I don't deny Zeitgeist has the potentially to be a lot better in its studio form. I agree with you about Arising too and I would say that disappointment also applies to Zwan. Also I was not there in Paris to see it firsthand and that may cloud my judgment. But one thing I can tell is when I listen to a great boot from '93 or '96 I feel a jealousness that I was not there. I dont feel nowhere near the same when I listened to the Paris boot.


Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I think I really only get that feeling twice - "Gossamer" and "Starz" but that's because I have the youtube clips and I'm really digging the whole production with the standing racks of future-minimalist lights and the whole blue light/white outfit thing they've got going on. I'm big into atmosphere and visuals when it comes to concerts, which is probably something that shouldn't matter but it always has for me.

On a side note, my fave SP phase was the "Rock Invasion" tour in 94 when they had the psychedelic imagery playing on the screen behind them and they had the big audience flash cluster that would go off during the more bombastic parts of songs and totally light the place up. I also like Billy's modern hippy/slacker look that he had going on and he just looked so much more like someone that I could identify with when he had hair but I digress and am getting waaay off topic and apologize! :)

Geek usa is quite phenomenal. when i listen to it i dont even feel like it has a complex structure. its catchy and the structure feels accessible but its not verse chorus verse. the reason is each segment flows so naturally to one another that you dont feel challenged to break it down, you just go for the ride. tarantula does not feel this natural at all.

SO WHY DOESN'T HE PLAY IT? C'MON BILL, ROCK THE GEEK USA OR ELSE.

the idea of doing an acoustic album but bringing in less conventional instruments like trumpet, strings, whatever. he really should have gone in this direction. the piano/guitar stuff from the spun soundtrack was really nice.

come on, he will probably go in that direction when he turns 60, because I bet he's not going to stop making music. But for the time being, let the man enjoy his great songs, he can still rock out, that shows in the paris boot. For me, it's really impressive to see the man at his 40's rocking out like that, and getting better vocally as well. Nothing on this Paris boot is forced. I tell you what. Billy disappointed you at some stage, and now you were afraid that he's going to disappoint you once again. So you're listening too carefully and probably reading too much into this show. Just press play, relax and enjoy the show and the new stuff, don't TRY to like it at the first listen, don't anticipate being immediately blown away, you will like it if you like the Pumpkins. The show fucking owns.

when i had only heard tarantula i thought the album was going to be pretty good. uninspired and soulless and not at all the smashing pumpkins, but at least a fun time

after hearing the paris recording i don't have any hope. half the new songs are lame and the other half just boring. i wasn't even excited by any of the old songs

i will download the album just to see if it surprises me, but beyond that i have no interest in sp2

The show was powerful as ever. Silverfuck wasn't forced.

If only I'd waited, you couldve saved me a lot of trouble Mayfuck.

If you're taking what he's saying seriously, then you've got bigger problems than he does.

See this is why we hate people like you. You can not honestly mean it's up there with the best.


no, it's called OPINION, asshole. ever heard of that? it means that not everyone has to believe what YOU believe. stop rediculing people for not sharing your opinion. you are an A1 asshole and you are getting a very bad rep around here really fast.

when i had only heard tarantula i thought the album was going to be pretty good. uninspired and soulless and not at all the smashing pumpkins, but at least a fun time

after hearing the paris recording i don't have any hope. half the new songs are lame and the other half just boring. i wasn't even excited by any of the old songs

i will download the album just to see if it surprises me, but beyond that i have no interest in sp2I am the opposite. Tarantula sucks, most of the other new songs are awesome.

Also people stop taking this thread so seriously, it's making you look stupid.

I posted this a few weeks ago, but I will restate it here. I am not going to bash anyone for their opinion. But those that say they are not into the new band are looking to hold on to some nostalgic feelings from their past life. Music changes as do people's lives. I know for me, SD and MCIS were great times in my life. I was in middle/high school during those eras and the songs from those albums were something I could easily identify with. It seemed that whatever Billy was saying, I was feeling. Flash forward 15 years and some of the fans don't want to leave the past behind. They want to maintain that time in their life where they could identify themselves with what Billy had to say. The recent interview where Jimmy and Billy mentioned they had no problem if former band members joined them, but they wanted to move forward, not backwards sums up those on this board that cannot move forward. I am glad Iha and Darcy are not in the band. Yes I loved the energy they had on stage during the SD/MCIS era. And yes, the best Pumpkin show I ever saw was in Pittsburgh during the Arising tour. But I also saw Iha during Machina and it was just like he was going through the motions, fulfilling his contract, picking up a paycheck.
To answer the topic at hand, no way did I just waste 3 hours of my life. In fact I have listened to the entire concert about half a dozen times, and I am more encouraged by the sound/energy/potential of this group of musicians than I have been for quite some time.
You know, when I look back 10 years ago, I too have those nostalgic feelings. Watching 1979 video sums up the shit we used to do in High school. I have nothing but good memories from that time. But the other day , i just got my 10 year reunion notice and thought about it for a few seconds. Whom do I keep in contact with from my class of 260? the answer is ZERO. People move on. If you are looking for the Pumpkins to take you back in time, forget about it. Billy and Jimmy have already....

no, it's called OPINION, asshole. ever heard of that? it means that not everyone has to believe what YOU believe. stop rediculing people for not sharing your opinion. you are an A1 asshole and you are getting a very bad rep around here really fast.

Really calling someone a fag is an honest opinion. Plus he was fucking bashing someone else opinion. So basically you bashed me for bashing someone for bashing someone elses opinion. Jesus fucking christ this shit is getting so fucking stupid. You guys keep running around yelling at people for doing what you yourself is doing.

For the first time ever I"m putting people onignore. This is just getting so fucking stupid.

See and agian you guys wonder why we hate new people.

I'm not following...

:confused:

I'm not following...

:confused:
There is so much that gets said that really deserves to be ripped apart, but new folks only seem to jump on reasonable detractors of the band.

We should be attacking the false logic and self deception rife here, but no. EXPLAIN YOURSELF NOW MOTHERFUCKER, WHAT DO YOU MEAN TARANTULA IS NOT A PATCH ON GEEK USA!>>!>!>!>?!?!?

Netphoria is actually just about the most noble place on the internet when you get to know it.

Shouldn't we be consolidating and putting this thread in the "paris bootleg discussion" thread?

my opinion's worth is proportional to my post count. its one thing when johnny StarlaRuby33 posts his opinion but people look forward to what i ahve to say about things.

I hate the way just because you have a high post count you think your opinion matters over someone who has just started posting today...who gives a shit whether you have a post count of 40,000 or 2..makes no difference!

I hate the way just because you have a high post count you think your opinion matters over someone who has just started posting today...who gives a shit whether you have a post count of 40,000 or 2..makes no difference!

very well said.

Quit crying like a little wimp..It is only music. Ya don't like it , who cares.

yeah why did i listen to this bootleg. and download it. the new material is not much better than my chemical romance or whatever grandiose-sounding heavy pop rock is out there right now.

i didn't really need to listen to the old songs again either. i don't know if i'm completely over this band or if i just listened to those tunes too often or whether these are just very mediocre renditions.

i liked the acoustic rocket best by the way.

also i don't think julio is trolling. do you really listen to machina on ca. a monthly basis?

yeah why did i listen to this bootleg. and download it. the new material is not much better than my chemical romance or whatever grandiose-sounding heavy pop rock is out there right now.

i didn't really need to listen to the old songs again either. i don't know if i'm completely over this band or if i just listened to those tunes too often or whether these are just very mediocre renditions.

i liked the acoustic rocket best by the way.

also i don't think julio is trolling. do you really listen to machina on ca. a monthly basis?

What bands are you listening to these days that you can recommend?

Netphoria is actually just about the most noble place on the internet when you get to know it.

i want what you're on...

do you really listen to machina on ca. a monthly basis?

honestly, most of the time the only pumpkins i listen to is machina...

What bands are you listening to these days that you can recommend?
http://www.last.fm/user/fat_fleshy_fingers/charts/?charttype=3month&subtype=artist&range=126

i don't know how representative this is

http://www.last.fm/user/fat_fleshy_fingers/charts/?charttype=3month&subtype=artist&range=126

i don't know how representative this is

Streaming radio eh....I was expecting much more.

i agree 100% with everything julio has said.

i think the worst argument the n00bs make is the "U DON'T LIEK IT CUZ UR LIVIN IN TEH PAST."

it's straight up b0llshit.

again, billy is just going to embarrass himself again, but this time it's with the legacy that was the smashing pumpkins.

i disagree with this, i don't think he'll embarass himself.

Why am I reading this? It's probably a nice day outside.

i disagree with this, i don't think he'll embarass himself.
have you seen the white dresses?

It's not like it's the first time he's worn a dress.

have you seen the white dresses?

The fact that he can do that and not be embarrassed is entertaining in and of itself.

it's a fucking robe.

Nay sayers say nay. You all fail.

your avatar is shitty dude.

Thank you. I made it all by myself.

I think you are lovely. Fancy a date?

have you seen the white dresses?

yeah, they look stupid, but so did the zero shirt and silver pants, the gaultier, pretty much anything else he has been wearing the past 10 years.

But i could really give a fuck about what he is wearing, I can't understand why people are to fixated on what the band wears.. has nothing to do with how good or bad the music is.

but you are a big James fan, correct?

have you seen the white dresses?


you should take a trip to the 'billy was pretty faggy' thread and see that he has worn dresses and tons of other dubious outfits and makeup schemes since gish days. It's nothing new.

Has anyone mentioned that this is just Mayfuck's opinion? I feel like we need to cover that.

yes, i am a big james fan. yes, i know bill has worn shitty outfits in the past.

i believe he is further embarrassing himself because he is desperately trying to cling to what made many of us fall in love with the pumpkins in the first place, and at the same time parodying it with cheap imitations filling the shoes of former bandmates. the white robes/dreses or whatever is part of the parody. the music is subpar and there is no passion. and he knows exactly who will lap it up. i've been through with lapping up his b0llshit ages ago.

the only way anyone could drag me to an sp2 show would be kicking and screaming, with free tickets & backstage passes so i can tell billy exactly what i feel.

The Pumpkins have always been an inconsistent band. I don't think they have put together any one year, concert, or even album that is 100% awesome. But the inconsistency comes from a dedication to trying to be truly exciting. If Billy is bored, he tries to get out of it, maybe by a little fake-it-'til-you-make-it action, but the effort is always to get back to something that excites him (as opposed to the all-the-time out-and-out posing that most bands put on). The exciting or "real" moment maybe only comes once or twice a night (and it has ALWAYS been this way), but that it comes at all is because he is always looking for it and trying to get to it. If there are two or three "true", "real", exciting moments on the Paris tape (I haven't heard the show) and the rest is by-the-numbers...that's pretty darned good in the world of the touring musician. Point is, we have 17 inconsistent years, albums, and shows from which to cherry-pick all the great moments and hold those up against the entirety of this one show. I'm not saying that's what everyone in this thread is doing, but it is difficult to avoid doing it because what we have chosen to remember is of course the great stuff.

But I don't really know if any comparison is worth making; I just sort of trust the emotional response. If you overly intellectualize this stuff, you miss the point. Art isn't theory, it's practice. It's not honesty; it's short for artifice. It either lights you on fire or makes you cry or makes you contemplate or it doesn't. If "Tarantula" or this bootleg isn't doing it, turn it off. If it seems like it is doing it, if you do feel that old-time Pumpkiny excitement in your stomach but that bothers you because you want to appear to have grown up or have moved on or to have made some "scientific" or "theoretical" or "objective" evaluation, then fine...but know that you really are killing the joy.

have you seen the white dresses?
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1496/ndvd001zb8.jpg

^ hey good one! no one's made that point yet!

yes, i am a big james fan. yes, i know bill has worn shitty outfits in the past.

i believe he is further embarrassing himself because he is desperately trying to cling to what made many of us fall in love with the pumpkins in the first place, and at the same time parodying it with cheap imitations filling the shoes of former bandmates. the white robes/dreses or whatever is part of the parody. the music is subpar and there is no passion. and he knows exactly who will lap it up. i've been through with lapping up his b0llshit ages ago.

the only way anyone could drag me to an sp2 show would be kicking and screaming, with free tickets & backstage passes so i can tell billy exactly what i feel.

I'll agree that a lot of the old songs lack passion, mostly because they haven't been rehearsed enough with the new band (I believe that they'd have a lot more passion in them if the original line-up was intact, and if they were still passionate about this material, which I doubt is the case seeing as they are not on that stage). Nothing will ever beat the energy of the arising tour, but that'll be the last we'll ever see of that pumpkins. That was 8 years ago now.

But I do feel the new material has a lot of passion to it, material that both billy and jimmy have been wanting to write for some time now. The fact that they have written a new record and are out to promote is what has me still keeping the faith in this group. Sure, they are playing some of the old hits, but it's by no means a greatest hits tour.

i was just slow locating the screenshot and didn't refresh thread

Has anyone mentioned that this is just Mayfuck's opinion? I feel like we need to cover that.

.

Mayfuck, according to your profile, you joined this forum before Al Gore invented the Internet.

Shouldn't we be consolidating and putting this thread in the "paris bootleg discussion" thread?


Maybe the mods wants everyone to look at this 'lol' fest.

Mayfuck, according to your profile, you joined this forum before Al Gore invented the Internet.

Conspiracy!

P.S. I want a custom title.

Okay... I'm not being sarcastic here, I honestly want to know... For all those who seem to hate Billy Corgan and everything he's produced in the last eight or nine years, and who are offended that he's pissing on his own legacy with this "reformed" Pumpkins: why do you continue to spend so much time talking about the band on this messageboard? I'm just curious, really, I think it would help alleivate a lot of the frustration some people have with the nay-sayers.

Another thing, with regard to lack of "passion" people are hearing: it actually takes more effort and focus to sing with the kind of projection and control Corgan has demonstrated in the last three shows. The energy is still there, it's just been displaced. Once again, so many people seem to be looking for something specific based on pre-conceived notions and can't recognize what's right in front of them.

The new version of Shame is one of my favorite songs on the boot. So much passion and energy, I love it.

Okay... I'm not being sarcastic here, I honestly want to know... For all those who seem to hate Billy Corgan and everything he's produced in the last eight or nine years, and who are offended that he's pissing on his own legacy with this "reformed" Pumpkins: why do you continue to spend so much time talking about the band on this messageboard? I'm just curious, really, I think it would help alleivate a lot of the frustration some people have with the nay-sayers.

Most of them jack up their post count over on the general boards.

I'll agree that a lot of the old songs lack passion, mostly because they haven't been rehearsed enough with the new band (I believe that they'd have a lot more passion in them if the original line-up was intact, and if they were still passionate about this material, which I doubt is the case seeing as they are not on that stage). Nothing will ever beat the energy of the arising tour, but that'll be the last we'll ever see of that pumpkins. That was 8 years ago now.

But I do feel the new material has a lot of passion to it, material that both billy and jimmy have been wanting to write for some time now. The fact that they have written a new record and are out to promote is what has me still keeping the faith in this group. Sure, they are playing some of the old hits, but it's by no means a greatest hits tour.

There are glimpses of passion, I.E. - B0lly laughs a little after singing the dorky falsetto part in the coda to Hummer.

But man people repping the new material need to open their fuckin' ears. The only good song so far is "That's the Way"

because we still have hope, deep down, that he won't do something stupid.

because we still have hope, deep down, that he won't do something stupid.

But how long are you willing to wait? At this point, according to certain quarters, he's spent nearly as much time fucking up as he did becoming great.

glad i skipped to the last page after reading the first post, mayfuck you really are an unhappy piece of shit, go keel over and die somewhere. your 46,000 posts of negativity are a complete waste of your life and our time. Same with Esty. im glad being a complete dumbass is so entertaining. i think esty and mayfuck are living in the 90's. that time is over guys. you are grown adults and the kids of today could care less what your thousands of posts said/mean. so go fuck yourselves/ each other. reminds me of a preteen that didnt get his/her own way. so they rant and throw a tantrum. bring on the negativity fuckwads

Who the fuck is Mayfuck?

He is a kernel on my turd. He hasn't even reached turd status yet.

people who keep using my first name i warn you please do not use it anymore unless i allow you to. i am good friends with nimrod's son and i can defnintely get any one of you banned so please refrain from using my first name thank you.

i will post the allow list as a refresher:

Rockin' Cherub
paranoid
pale_princess
Graveflower
Geek USA
neopryn
Egadsman
RockLobster
GlassgowKiss
tcm
Egadsman
ohnoitsbonnie
Xteenmachine

if you are not on this list please DO NOT ever ever address me by my real name

This has gotten to be a very strange place in its distiled issolation.

And I think I used to be allowed on that list.

Hello Jeff Compton my good man!

people who keep using my first name i warn you please do not use it anymore unless i allow you to. i am good friends with nimrod's son and i get defnintely get any one of you banned so please refrain from using my first name thank you.

Talk about being full of yourself. Plus, I doubt you have any friends.

Why did you give me a list of some of Netphoria's top douchebags? (bar tcm and paranoid)

Howdy Julio! How's things in these parts? I've been a tad scarce, if you hadn't noticed.

hahaha.

Howdy Julio! How's things in these parts? I've been a tad scarce, if you hadn't noticed.

Oh, noticed I have! Well things are a bit crazy aronud here with SP playing again. Have you heard any of the new songs?

people who keep using my first name i warn you please do not use it anymore unless i allow you to. i am good friends with nimrod's son and i can defnintely get any one of you banned so please refrain from using my first name thank you.

i will post the allow list as a refresher:

Rockin' Cherub
paranoid
pale_princess
Graveflower
Geek USA
neopryn
Egadsman
RockLobster
GlassgowKiss
tcm
Egadsman
ohnoitsbonnie
Xteenmachine

if you are not on this list please DO NOT ever ever address me by my real name

How do I get on that list?

I want to be special too.

people who keep using my first name i warn you please do not use it anymore unless i allow you to. i am good friends with nimrod's son and i can defnintely get any one of you banned so please refrain from using my first name thank you.

i will post the allow list as a refresher:

Rockin' Cherub
paranoid
pale_princess
Graveflower
Geek USA
neopryn
Egadsman
RockLobster
GlassgowKiss
tcm
Egadsman
ohnoitsbonnie
Xteenmachine

if you are not on this list please DO NOT ever ever address me by my real name


Sup Julio!

How do I get on that list?

I want to be special too.

suck lots of cock, and pretend you are more intelligent and more important than you actually are. So basically a giant cock smoking snob.

You have to wear a leather mask, and profess to hate Billy because he fucked over James and Darcy.

Just downloaded the concert you're disapointed about. I figure I'll give a whril before I by festival tickets. Festivals? What the hell is up with that? Anyway, I'm excited about the new stuff, but I think it's rather biased. I had given up, and anything good would have blown my mind. Well, my minds blown. It's probably time to pick up the pieces and listen with a bit more discretion. I've been listening to far too much amazing music to be bowled over by a nostolgia fest, but....I kinda want to at the same time. Damn paradox!

Oh, and I still can;t spell, but you knew that already.

C'mon guys, don't call him Julio, that's not cool. Do people call Batman "Bruce"? No. You're eroding his power fantasy.

suck lots of cock, and pretend you are more intelligent and more important than you actually are. So basically a giant cock smoking snob.

Well in that case...

Nevermind.

And who the hell are these people, anyway? Are they since the concert? I bet they came via pitchfork, didn't they...Whenever I come back here, I always wish I could filter the board down to about 20 people. Boy, I'm getting crotichity.

nah pitchfork readers are probably more intelligent than this.

And who the hell are these people, anyway? Are they since the concert? I bet they came via pitchfork, didn't they...Whenever I come back here, I always wish I could filter the board down to about 20 people. Boy, I'm getting crotichity.

A lot of lurkers have come out now that the band is back and functioning.

Yes, it's annoying.

I'm one of them.

people who keep using my first name i warn you please do not use it anymore unless i allow you to. i am good friends with nimrod's son and i can defnintely get any one of you banned so please refrain from using my first name thank you.

i will post the allow list as a refresher:

Rockin' Cherub
paranoid
pale_princess
Graveflower
Geek USA
neopryn
Egadsman
RockLobster
GlassgowKiss
tcm
Egadsman
ohnoitsbonnie
Xteenmachine

if you are not on this list please DO NOT ever ever address me by my real name


Hey Mayfuck, how're you :(

And who the hell are these people, anyway? Are they since the concert? I bet they came via pitchfork, didn't they...Whenever I come back here, I always wish I could filter the board down to about 20 people. Boy, I'm getting crotichity.


b0lly forgot to make a new O-board. So netphoria is the new O-board.

Oh and people who have been here the entire time, but has moved on from the past.

again, the living in the past argument has nothing to do with it.

Maybe I should move my inquiries over to the general board...but before I do that...do I need to be warned about the state of the general board?

no, it's called OPINION, asshole. ever heard of that? it means that not everyone has to believe what YOU believe. stop rediculing people for not sharing your opinion. you are an A1 asshole and you are getting a very bad rep around here really fast.

Who's this guy again?

Maybe I should move my inquiries over to the general board...but before I do that...do I need to be warned about the state of the general board?

Best to keep the SP stuff off there, it provides a gateway

yeah, they look stupid, but so did the zero shirt and silver pants, the gaultier, pretty much anything else he has been wearing the past 10 years.



The zero shirt looked stupid?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1496/ndvd001zb8.jpg


If the band had all come out in martching outfilts like that you might have a point.

<blink>J U L I O </blink>










Tell us about the slow development of your homosexuality

he's fucking 40, quit living in the past
age-ism is too old to rock

and the new shame sux.

tarantula and gossamer are the only new ones that have impressed me so far

Julio, get off the computer and go cut my lawn

when i had only heard tarantula i thought the album was going to be pretty good. uninspired and soulless and not at all the smashing pumpkins, but at least a fun time

after hearing the paris recording i don't have any hope. half the new songs are lame and the other half just boring. i wasn't even excited by any of the old songs

i will download the album just to see if it surprises me, but beyond that i have no interest in sp2

Agreed. I did like Gossamer though. The rest are just a joke and I haven't even bothered listening to all the old songs because I couldn't imagine they played them any differently/better than they used to and there are already 100s of better boots out there.

Agreed. I did like Gossamer though. The rest are just a joke and I haven't even bothered listening to all the old songs because I couldn't imagine they played them any differently/better than they used to and there are already 100s of better boots out there.

I hope that some day you are in a position of great power and get to make decisions that will affect the lives of many people.

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, also i am a homosexual

Shut the hell up.

Julio, get off the computer and go cut my lawn

.

glad i skipped to the last page after reading the first post, mayfuck you really are an unhappy piece of shit, go keel over and die somewhere. your 46,000 posts of negativity are a complete waste of your life and our time. Same with Esty. im glad being a complete dumbass is so entertaining. i think esty and mayfuck are living in the 90's. that time is over guys. you are grown adults and the kids of today could care less what your thousands of posts said/mean. so go fuck yourselves/ each other. reminds me of a preteen that didnt get his/her own way. so they rant and throw a tantrum. bring on the negativity fuckwads
shut the fuck up, people are trying to discuss

I love the people who say they have no interest in the pumpkins, but they will download the album for free!

I love the people who say they have no interest in the pumpkins, but they will download the album for free!

But it TOTALLY proves their point.

I think I only like new SP because I want so bad to like it. Part of me knows though that this is complete ass. Seriously if the new album came after Gish I would not be interested in SP at all. It doesn't have the SP feel to it anymore.

what a bunch of netphorian twats.

this thread sums up the gayness and faggotry of the netphorian mentality.

whiny little bitches.

I think I only like new SP because I want so bad to like it. Part of me knows though that this is complete ass. Seriously if the new album came after Gish I would not be interested in SP at all. It doesn't have the SP feel to it anymore.

pfff.

I agree wholeheartedly with the first post of this thread, except for liking the remake of GATGC--ack. The song has no musical progression. It's just Jeff making the same noise for several minutes.

This new material is disappointing, I'm sad to say. Where's the material like To Wonder and A New Poetry we heard with Zwan live?

I think I only like new SP because I want so bad to like it. Part of me knows though that this is complete ass. Seriously if the new album came after Gish I would not be interested in SP at all. It doesn't have the SP feel to it anymore.

I totally agree.

the new songs - they are not bad but they are not good. i will listen to them because ive been a fan so long that my brain has developed an acceptance and tolerance for anything billy does. but i recognize these are not good songs. they can be enjoyable at some level but they are eventually uninspired and uninteresting.

the old songs - the freshness is long gone. i didn't enjoy any of them. the GATGC remake was good. but everything else...so dated. they ruined shame, silverfuck was incredibly underwhelming and forced. run of the mill walk down nostalgia lane as they randomly went through their hits uninterestedly. they're in their rolling stones phase, sad to say, also i am a homosexual


shut up please

I haven't posted here in ages, but I had to pop in and agree with the naysayers.

The Pumpkins have been my favorite band for 15+ years now. I've loved every album (even Adore - which happens to be my favorite - and Machina and Machina 2). I bought every single and side-project and collected as many bootlegs and demos as I possibly could. I saw them play every time they came to the area. I stood in line for 12 hours to spend about 60 seconds with them on the Resume the Pose tour. I drove 14 hours to Chicago for the United Center show. I've made all the same apologies and had all the same arguments that many here have talked about having in being made to defend this band (and I thought that the people I was arguing with at the time were nuts, and I still do).

And I anxiously awaited the return to face-melting form that Jimmy and Billy have been dangling in front of our collective faces like a carrot.

I hate to say it, but after downloading the Paris show and listening to it, and looking at pictures and youtube video from said show, all I can say is that ain't the Smashing Pumpkins up there. It's Billy and Jimmy and two other people going through the motions, in admittedly horrible costumes. The lack of Iha is immediately noticeable, not only for his clever stage banter, but he is the master of the ebow, and nobody can play this stuff the way James could. The new songs sound uninspired, straightforward, and safe. More like Billy's solo album than "Smashing Pumpkins". Gone are the dynamics of Soma and the immediacy of Geek USA. The setlist is disappointing. From what little the band gave us to go on, it sounded like they were going to go deep into the catalog for this "reunion". But where are the rare songs? Nothing pre-Siamese Dream and even then, it's the singles. No Spiteface. No Pissant. No Hello Kitty Kat. No Starla. No Frail and Bedazzled. No Plume. But we get two reworked time-killers in Glass and the Ghost Children and Silverfuck. Not to mention more Billy rants that make his old rants seems almost sane. Oh, say it ain't so.

Look, I'm all for Billy and Jimmy doing their thing and releasing new music. But to do this and call it the Smashing Pumpkins is a disservice to that band's memory. When Page and Plant went on tour, they didn't call it Led Zeppelin. But they played Led Zep tunes and they played their new tunes and everything sounded great and it was amazing to see. I think Billy and company should have taken a lesson from the legends here.

Of course, I'll still buy the new album and catch the new tour, but my hopes are seriously deflated. Hopefully the residency shows will get my spirits up.

*fades into obscurity again*

Almost all of the new songs sound NOTHING like The Future Embrace. I don't understand that comparison at all.

Page and Plant aren't Led Zeppelin. The drummer and bassist were actually huge contributers to the songwriting process... Iha and Darcy were not. The creation of the pumpkins songs has almost always been corgan's vision with jimmy's drumming. Adore was pretty much just corgan's vision.

It is and always was Billy's band. He's not doing a disservice to the Smashing Pumpkins' memory. It's his band and he can do what he wants with it. People change and times change. That's reality.

I haven't posted here in ages, but I had to pop in and agree with the naysayers.

The Pumpkins have been my favorite band for 15+ years now. I've loved every album (even Adore - which happens to be my favorite - and Machina and Machina 2). I bought every single and side-project and collected as many bootlegs and demos as I possibly could. I saw them play every time they came to the area. I stood in line for 12 hours to spend about 60 seconds with them on the Resume the Pose tour. I drove 14 hours to Chicago for the United Center show. I've made all the same apologies and had all the same arguments that many here have talked about having in being made to defend this band (and I thought that the people I was arguing with at the time were nuts, and I still do).

And I anxiously awaited the return to face-melting form that Jimmy and Billy have been dangling in front of our collective faces like a carrot.

I hate to say it, but after downloading the Paris show and listening to it, and looking at pictures and youtube video from said show, all I can say is that ain't the Smashing Pumpkins up there. It's Billy and Jimmy and two other people going through the motions, in admittedly horrible costumes. The lack of Iha is immediately noticeable, not only for his clever stage banter, but he is the master of the ebow, and nobody can play this stuff the way James could. The new songs sound uninspired, straightforward, and safe. More like Billy's solo album than "Smashing Pumpkins". Gone are the dynamics of Soma and the immediacy of Geek USA. The setlist is disappointing. From what little the band gave us to go on, it sounded like they were going to go deep into the catalog for this "reunion". But where are the rare songs? Nothing pre-Siamese Dream and even then, it's the singles. No Spiteface. No Pissant. No Hello Kitty Kat. No Starla. No Frail and Bedazzled. No Plume. But we get two reworked time-killers in Glass and the Ghost Children and Silverfuck. Not to mention more Billy rants that make his old rants seems almost sane. Oh, say it ain't so.

Look, I'm all for Billy and Jimmy doing their thing and releasing new music. But to do this and call it the Smashing Pumpkins is a disservice to that band's memory. When Page and Plant went on tour, they didn't call it Led Zeppelin. But they played Led Zep tunes and they played their new tunes and everything sounded great and it was amazing to see. I think Billy and company should have taken a lesson from the legends here.

Of course, I'll still buy the new album and catch the new tour, but my hopes are seriously deflated. Hopefully the residency shows will get my spirits up.

*fades into obscurity again*


GREAT SECOND POST. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

You know what I think? I bet there will be two Smashing Pumpkins. The line-up in the UK and the original line-up in the U.S.

The only reason I say this is because of the difference of the bands name. They promote Zeitgeist as "Smashing Pumpkins". They tour in the UK under "Smashing Pumpkins" yet the official T-shirts being sold in Hot Topic stores all across the U.S. read "The smashing Pumpkins". Now why would they do this? They have always been promoted as one or the other. Not both at the same time. Yes, they own the rights to the name both ways and can display it any way they freakin' feel like it, but why are both variants out there?

Tired, nothing better to do. Just thinking out loud.

GREAT SECOND POST. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

You know what I think? I bet there will be two Smashing Pumpkins. The line-up in the UK and the original line-up in the U.S.

The only reason I say this is because of the difference of the bands name. They promote Zeitgeist as "Smashing Pumpkins". They tour in the UK under "Smashing Pumpkins" yet the official T-shirts being sold in Hot Topic stores all across the U.S. read "The smashing Pumpkins". Now why would they do this? They have always been promoted as one or the other. Not both at the same time. Yes, they own the rights to the name both ways and can display it any way they freakin' feel like it, but why are both variants out there?

Tired, nothing better to do. Just thinking out loud.

i totally agree with that the pumpkins have lost the magic, but i don't care. freddie mercury's dead, so this is all i have.

however, i wouldn't read so much into their merchandising tactics.

i totally agree with that the pumpkins have lost the magic, but i don't care. freddie mercury's dead, so this is all i have.

however, i wouldn't read so much into their merchandising tactics.


The little things..

I posted earlier in the thread but I'm back again...
I still think Mayfuck is completely wrong...
I think the pumpkins sound great...
such a good concert...
I'm listening to the Paris boot again(Gossamer just started) such a good song
I can't wait to see the pumpkins in Asheville and San Francisco....
I'm really looking forward to the album now after being able to sit here and listen to all the new songs they've played so far....
I am truly excited...
I know some of you aren't, but I hope the pumpkins will eventually sway your thinking...
just open up your heart and your mind and try to listen without prejudice...

"you don't want me anymore...
you don't need me anymore...
nevermore.."

Billy Corgan-Gossamer

Almost all of the new songs sound NOTHING like The Future Embrace. I don't understand that comparison at all.

Page and Plant aren't Led Zeppelin. The drummer and bassist were actually huge contributers to the songwriting process... Iha and Darcy were not. The creation of the pumpkins songs has almost always been corgan's vision with jimmy's drumming. Adore was pretty much just corgan's vision.

I compare to TFE more for the straightforwardness of the material and the tones they seem to be using on this new record, not comparing the songs themselves.

Of course, Page and Plant aren't Led Zeppelin. They were the two that did the bulk of the writing, however. Absolutely, John Paul Jones and John Bonham were a huge part of that band, most notably as arrangers (JPJ moreso than JB). James may have only had one or two songs he wrote or co-wrote on the official albums (and I remember seeing the whole band jamming around a drum machine in the studio together for the Adore sessions), but his presence was felt, especially live. George Harrison didn't write the bulk of the Beatles music (he was relegated to one track per album just like James) but if they'd ever had the opportunity to get back together and he wasn't there, would it still be the Beatles? Ringo only wrote a couple tunes. What if they left him out?

I think we could split hairs over who did what in whatever band until we're blue in the face. The main thing I was going for is that Billy could have had the best of both worlds in making a new band and still playing the SP catalog (the bulk of which is his, anyway, as we all know) without actually calling it SP, thereby avoiding disappointing fans and setting a bar for himself that's practically impossible to clear.

You know what the first thing I thought of was when I listened to the Paris boot? New Pink Floyd. Passable, makes you wish the old lineup was still together, and when you see them live, it's the same stuff they played the last time with songs from the new record. Like the difference between Delicate Sound of Thunder and Pulse. As in, there's not much difference.

I could be moved to change my tune if they open up with "Sun" when they come through the Philadelphia area, though. Hey, it could happen!

George Harrison didn't write the bulk of the Beatles music (he was relegated to one track per album just like James) but if they'd ever had the opportunity to get back together and he wasn't there, would it still be the Beatles? Ringo only wrote a couple tunes. What if they left him out?

I don't think anybody would have minded ringo being left out...
but George would have definately been missed...
if George, John and Paul would ahve done a reunion without ringo while they were all still alive, I don't think people would ahve complained THAT much....
but i might be wrong....

It is and always was Billy's band. He's not doing a disservice to the Smashing Pumpkins' memory. It's his band and he can do what he wants with it. People change and times change. That's reality.no matter how many times you dudes repeat this simple "it's Billy's band, he can do what he wants" mantra, it's not going to come true. gonzo makes this long heartfelt post making great points and you people come back with "it's Billy's band".

read Mayfuck and gonzo's posts, really read them. the people that are uneasy with the new members are people that hold the Pumpkins in a special place in their hearts, that grew with them through the rough times and good times. the people that are okay with hired guns up there are people who like the band on a superficial level. there i said it.

read Mayfuck and gonzo's posts, really read them. the people that are uneasy with the new members are people that hold the Pumpkins in a special place in their hearts, that grew with them through the rough times and good times. the people that are okay with hired guns up there are people who like the band on a superficial level. there i said it.


And here I thought it was about the music, not the names behind it.

GREAT SECOND POST. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID.

You know what I think? I bet there will be two Smashing Pumpkins. The line-up in the UK and the original line-up in the U.S.

The only reason I say this is because of the difference of the bands name. They promote Zeitgeist as "Smashing Pumpkins". They tour in the UK under "Smashing Pumpkins" yet the official T-shirts being sold in Hot Topic stores all across the U.S. read "The smashing Pumpkins". Now why would they do this? They have always been promoted as one or the other. Not both at the same time. Yes, they own the rights to the name both ways and can display it any way they freakin' feel like it, but why are both variants out there?

Tired, nothing better to do. Just thinking out loud.

You know, I've only posted three times since coming back (been gone a couple years, actually) and the pull of this place is still as palpable as back then. It's the Mos Eisley Spaceport of messageboards. A true one of a kind.

Also, I like that idea. Now if it was only a reality!

Also, I like that idea. Now if it was only a reality!


keep dreaming, you will have to deal with these 'hired' guns for quite awhile longer.

You know, I've only posted three times since coming back (been gone a couple years, actually) and the pull of this place is still as palpable as back then. It's the Mos Eisley Spaceport of messageboards. A true one of a kind.

Also, I like that idea. Now if it was only a reality!

star wars geek alert....
isn't posting on netphoria taking away from your galaxies playing time?
shouldn't you be out looting at the DWB or maybe Doing some theme park missions?

read Mayfuck and gonzo's posts, really read them. the people that are uneasy with the new members are people that hold the Pumpkins in a special place in their hearts, that grew with them through the rough times and good times. the people that are okay with hired guns up there are people who like the band on a superficial level. there i said it.


that's pretty insulting

we all want the original line-up, but it aint gonna happen

it's either this, or no pumpkins at all....

star wars geek alert....
isn't posting on netphoria taking away from your galaxies playing time?
shouldn't you be out looting at the DWB or maybe Doing some theme park missions?

actually, I have a confession to make....
I love star wars....
sadly most of what i believe spiritually is based upon those movies...
just kidding...
maybe...

may the force be with you....

keep dreaming, you will have to deal with these 'hired' guns for quite awhile longer.

Oh, I know. I've come to accept that fact. And as I said, I'm hoping the residency shows will change my mind a bit. But if they don't, at the end of the day, I still have the memory of what once was.

star wars geek alert....
isn't posting on netphoria taking away from your galaxies playing time?
shouldn't you be out looting at the DWB or maybe Doing some theme park missions?

I'm not sure what this means.

actually, I have a confession to make....
I love star wars....
sadly most of what i believe spiritually is based upon those movies...
just kidding...
maybe...

may the force be with you....

And the same to you, sir!
:beer: