View Full Version : Proposal to make Netphoria carbon neutral


hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 11:55 AM
Netphorians, it is time to take responsibility for our community's greenhouse gas emissions. As you may know, many organizations now sell carbon credits. The idea is that you calculate how much greenhouse gas you directly and indirectly produce in a year, and buy the equivalent credits to offset the harmful effects. The money goes towards sustainable energy infrastructure and the like.

I propose that Andrew give us an estimate on the amount of electricity that Netphoria's server consumes, and that we then buy the necessary carbon credits. It won't cost much.

If we go through with this, we can then challenge the Smashing Pumpkins to go carbon neutral for all future albums and tours. Whether you like the Pumpkins or not they're a major international band for which Netphoria is the flagship fan community. If we go carbon neutral and challenge the band to do the same, we will be making a powerful statement about social responsibility. The Pumpkins use a lot of jet fuel and electricity, and having the band go carbon neutral would be a real achievement.

Travis Meeks
04-29-2007, 11:59 AM
pumpkins broke up bro

Toby
04-29-2007, 12:11 PM
hmmm

BumbleBeeMouth
04-29-2007, 12:23 PM
i shit directly onto my garden to save all the excess energy required to purify my sewage. I'm doing my bit.

tcm
04-29-2007, 12:45 PM
i have to wonder how many gigawatt-hours of energy are expended by that little light show you've got going on under your name every time you post. dozens, i'd wager.

BumbleBeeMouth
04-29-2007, 12:50 PM
perhaps i should consider removing the flash from mine also.....

phaedrus
04-29-2007, 12:58 PM
carbon credits is such bullshit.

hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 01:00 PM
i have to wonder how many gigawatt-hours of energy are expended by that little light show you've got going on under your name every time you post. dozens, i'd wager.

This is a small luxury afforded by Andrew's forward-thinking decision to use an energy-efficient black background. And for the record, the energy needed for people to view netphoria at home does not fall within netphoria's energy calculations. If a restaurant goes carbon neutral they don't calculate the customers' cars driving to the restaurant.

Of course we should all go carbon neutral in our own lives, in which case we would all pay through the nose for my avatar, but for the purpose of this proposal all we really need is a server energy usage figure from Andrew, and his agreement to post a challenge to the Pumpkins on the homepage.

hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 01:02 PM
carbon credits is such bullshit.

So-called carbon neutrality is very much a second choice after real reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. But realistically I don't see us closing down netphoria or the pumpkins ceasing touring to reduce emissions. This is way to accomplish real benefit for sustainable energy infrastructure.

Irridescent Fairysex
04-29-2007, 01:17 PM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4G0hdZeK7ss"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4G0hdZeK7ss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

yo soy el mejor
04-29-2007, 01:28 PM
carbon credits are just throwing money down the drain

-a

The Omega Concern
04-29-2007, 01:31 PM
Barnum and Bailey's axiom there's a 'sucker born every minute' is proven out with carbon offsets.

the EU is now demanding to look into changing the diet and nutrition of farm animals because they emit greater CO2 emissions than cars. As does volcanic eruptions, but no word on the U.N. or EU forcing God and Mother Nature to curb their activity, though I wouldn't rule out higher taxes for them...

anyway...this is the Al Gore sham, he owns the company that will profit from the carbon-offset brainwash and not a single sucker sees the conflict of interest, thereby proving also that liberalism is a mental disorder.

DeviousJ
04-29-2007, 01:40 PM
Barnum and Bailey's axiom there's a 'sucker born every minute' is proven out with carbon offsets.

the EU is now demanding to look into changing the diet and nutrition of farm animals because they emit greater CO2 emissions than cars. As does volcanic eruptions, but no word on the U.N. or EU forcing God and Mother Nature to curb their activity, though I wouldn't rule out higher taxes for them...

anyway...this is the Al Gore sham, he owns the company that will profit from the carbon-offset brainwash and not a single sucker sees the conflict of interest, thereby proving also that liberalism is a mental disorder.

You're everywhere but the Al Gore thread, aren't you?

neopryn
04-29-2007, 01:54 PM
proposal denied

hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 01:55 PM
Barnum and Bailey's axiom there's a 'sucker born every minute' is proven out with carbon offsets.

the EU is now demanding to look into changing the diet and nutrition of farm animals because they emit greater CO2 emissions than cars. As does volcanic eruptions, but no word on the U.N. or EU forcing God and Mother Nature to curb their activity, though I wouldn't rule out higher taxes for them...

anyway...this is the Al Gore sham, he owns the company that will profit from the carbon-offset brainwash and not a single sucker sees the conflict of interest, thereby proving also that liberalism is a mental disorder.

As I've said, carbon credits are a distant second choice after personal reduction of emissions. But they do provide real investment in clean energy and net emission reductions. I encourage you to read about carbon credits as explained by one of Canada's leading environmental organizations (http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/What_You_Can_Do/carbon_neutral.asp): they explain that reducing emissions through personal lifestyle choices is priority one, but that carbon credits are a responsible way to offset your remaining emissions. At the very least they are better than doing nothing.

As far as farm animals vs. volcanoes, carbon emissions obviously occur naturally through various sources. But the current level of human-caused carbon emissions is causing an unprecedented change in global carbon levels. Therefore it makes sense to try to reduce farm emissions even if there is nothing we can do about volcanoes.

RenewRevive
04-29-2007, 06:51 PM
This is a small luxury afforded by Andrew's forward-thinking decision to use an energy-efficient black background.

a black font would help too!

Nimrod's Son
04-29-2007, 07:09 PM
Actually since Andrew pays for hosting, the ISP would be responsible for the carbon offsets.

hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 07:50 PM
Actually since Andrew pays for hosting, the ISP would be responsible for the carbon offsets.

This is a valid point, and the fact is that carbon offsetting is based on fudgy math to begin with. But since I'm sure the ISP does not offer carbon neutral hosting, I'm suggesting that we take responsibility for the server.

hereisnowhy
04-29-2007, 07:53 PM
Remember, the point of the exercise is to have the Pumpkins put thousands of our concert ticket dollars towards sustainable energy infrastructure. I think we should make an effort to offset our own activity in some way before asking this of them.

hereisnowhy
04-30-2007, 01:33 PM
I'm still hoping to have at least one person second the motion.

avian chaos
04-30-2007, 01:36 PM
That's funny because I came in this thread with the predetermined thought to just post "PETITION SIGNED" before I even read anything!

avian chaos
04-30-2007, 01:36 PM
PETITION SIGNED

hereisnowhy
04-30-2007, 01:41 PM
Well at least there's one good person here who's willing to sign something without reading it.

As a valid petition, and since netphorian petitions never follow democratic process, this can now be forwarded to Andrew for his wise and mature perusal.

Ol' Couch Ass
04-30-2007, 01:41 PM
I'm going the other way... I'm a constructing a computer that runs on coal power. I just have to cut a hole in my roof for the smokestack.

tcm
04-30-2007, 08:09 PM
i have a policy against throwing my powerhouse clout with the people behind any political causes no matter how noble they may be, it just gets messy every time.

bardy
04-30-2007, 09:09 PM
carbon credits are stupid. you are giving money to some organization that is then investing this money into "alternative energy" projects.

1) this company is taking a cut of your money, they need to make money somehow. you should just research and invest the money yourself if you feel that guilty.

2) investing money into ecofriendly or alternative energy projects does not mean that "bad" or "dirty" energy projects are not still going on.

this coworker of mine wants to start one of those things for "waste water credits" and he would invest the money guilty stupid rich people paid him into waste water treatment facilities.

ella
04-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Can I sign the petition even though I have yet to donate?


:cool:
anyways, SINED!!!!!!OPAJSDLKJLKAS

hereisnowhy
05-01-2007, 12:15 AM
1) this company is taking a cut of your money, they need to make money somehow. you should just research and invest the money yourself if you feel that guilty.


Many organizations that sell carbon credits are nonprofit. The ones that make a profit are doing so legitimately. If people don't mind giving them a cut to save the trouble of researching and investing independently, that's their choice. You might as well say that people should bake their own bread instead of being fools and shopping at the bakery.

2) investing money into ecofriendly or alternative energy projects does not mean that "bad" or "dirty" energy projects are not still going on.


Suppose 90% of energy in the USA is dirty energy (coal, etc). If carbon credit purchasers effectively invest x dollars into clean energy, the ratio of clean energy to dirty energy will increase. This may mean that dirty energy production will decrease, or just that dirty energy will represent a smaller portion of a still-increasing overall energy supply. Either way, some energy that would have been dirty is now clean.

hereisnowhy
06-22-2007, 02:08 PM
Bad news Netphoria. It's been just about two months and I have failed to elicit any response from Andrew either in this thread or through PMs. I asked him to consider posting a message to the Pumpkins on netphoria's homepage. I said I would pay for any relevant carbon credits myself; there would be no cost to Andrew. But no response.

I'm still hoping that he's just been busy and is on the verge of responding. If you'd like to see the pumpkins go carbon neutral perhaps you could let him know, to encourage a response of some kind.

bardy
06-22-2007, 04:09 PM
as an update, I am still against the idea of carbon credits

waltermcphilp
06-22-2007, 04:14 PM
what are these "carbon credits"?

Andrew_Pakula
06-22-2007, 05:42 PM
I haven't responded because I think the idea is completely retarded and beyond stupid. To be honest at first I thought the original post was just a gag, a joke and I was surprised later that you are actually taking this nonsense seriously.

Firstly, I have no clue how much electricity that the Netphoria server consumes. I doubt the ISP would know this either as they do not track individual power usage for servers and like Nimrod mentioned it would be the ISP who would be responsible for the carbon offsets.

Proposal denied.

waltermcphilp
06-22-2007, 05:49 PM
andrew pakula is raining down fire!

wangcomputers
06-22-2007, 05:53 PM
I don't have a carbon footprint because I drive everywhere.

christian zombie vampires
06-22-2007, 05:54 PM
theres not much we can do until we replace planes with flying locomotive time machines and that project gets under way to use wind turbines to blow data through the wires of the internet

hereisnowhy
06-22-2007, 05:55 PM
Well, thanks for responding. Earlier in this thread I explained that the idea of making netphoria itself carbon neutral is merely a symbolic gesture. The purpose of the idea is to ask the pumpkins to go carbon neutral, which would mean having the band invest thousands of our fan dollars in sustainable energy infrastructure. That would be serious. I thought it would be reasonable to make at least a symbolic gesture beforehand to show our commitment to the idea, and to practice what we preach in hopes of getting the band on board.

Would you like to see the pumpkins invest our fan dollars in clean energy Andrew? You run the biggest pumpkins fan community on earth. It would take about five minutes of effort, and no money, to post a notice on the homepage. I hope you'll reconsider.

christian zombie vampires
06-22-2007, 05:57 PM
carbon credits are kinda like replacing jail with a series of fines. rape? 100 grand. murder? 150 grand.

Nimrod's Son
06-22-2007, 06:00 PM
I haven't responded because I think the idea is completely retarded and beyond stupid.
:Pakula:

hereisnowhy
06-22-2007, 06:01 PM
carbon credits are kinda like replacing jail with a series of fines. rape? 100 grand. murder? 150 grand.

If the $100,000 went towards funding rape prevention centers, the analogy is technically accurate, if insensitively chosen.

Nimrod's Son
06-22-2007, 06:02 PM
The purpose of the idea is to ask the pumpkins to go carbon neutral, which would mean having the band invest thousands of our fan dollars in sustainable energy infrastructure. That would be serious. I thought it would be reasonable to make at least a symbolic gesture beforehand to show our commitment to the idea, and to practice what we preach in hopes of getting the band on board.

Would you like to see the pumpkins invest our fan dollars in clean energy Andrew? You run the biggest pumpkins fan community on earth. It would take about five minutes of effort, and no money, to post a notice on the homepage. I hope you'll reconsider.
dude, you've completely flipped if you think that because netphoria makes a token donation to some radical whacko carbon offset idea what the smashing pumpkins band is going to be like "holy shit that's great, let's follow suit!"

if the pumpkins really paid close attention to what netphoria wanted, TFE would never have been released and James Iha would be on tour with them right now

hereisnowhy
06-22-2007, 06:05 PM
Because this thread was merely a proposal, I am of course open to other suggestions on how to encourage the pumpkins to go carbon neutral. Maybe the token gesture of carbon-neutralizing netphoria is unnecessary. But I still think we can use the weight of the world's biggest pumpkins fan community to good advantage.

suncrashesdown
06-22-2007, 06:08 PM
I think if they're going to make the cover of their album the Statue of Liberty half-submerged in global warming-licious water, they should put their money where their mouth is and do what Neil Young, Pearl Jam, Ozma, and innumerable other bands have done and tour green.

hereisnowhy
06-22-2007, 06:09 PM
dude, you've completely flipped if you think that because netphoria makes a token donation to some radical whacko carbon offset idea what the smashing pumpkins band is going to be like "holy shit that's great, let's follow suit!"

if the pumpkins really paid close attention to what netphoria wanted, TFE would never have been released and James Iha would be on tour with them right now

As I explained earlier, carbon credits are not whacko. They are a legitimate second choice after absolute reductions in carbon emissions.

As far as the band goes, I think they will be more likely to listen to a collective fan request about a social issue that has nothing to do with music, than about which songs and guitarists we like.

Suppose Andrew posts a challenge to the pumpkins. The band will hear about it one way or another. Maybe Pitchfork will mention it. Will the band listen? Maybe, maybe not. But it costs nothing to try, and the possible benefits are large.

Ever
06-22-2007, 08:08 PM
The background is already black, and that saves power.

bardy
06-22-2007, 08:32 PM
del cause noone really wants to hear me explain pollution credits and mitigation banks

but if you change your mind, netphoria, let me know

GlasgowKiss
06-22-2007, 08:36 PM
Did that post just happen.

sickbadthing
06-22-2007, 08:45 PM
I wish the planet would just fucking explode.

GlasgowKiss
06-22-2007, 08:47 PM
I was mainly just amazed that you seemed to be moaning about jumping through hoops to go around quarrying in the habitats of endangered species.

Luke de Spa
06-22-2007, 08:48 PM
The background is already black, and that saves power.
not on LCDs it doesn't. please check your sources more thoroughly ever, this is a serious thread

bardy
06-22-2007, 08:52 PM
I was mainly just amazed that you seemed to be moaning about jumping through hoops to go around quarrying in endangered habitats.


jumping through hoops means dealing with people at local goverment agencies who dont understand anything you are talking about and about half the time don't even speak english.

I am all for having someone review the amount of dust we are emitting into the air and policing that, but those people deal with anything from home construction to agriculture centers to walmarts to quarries. it takes a really long time to explain things to them!! :angry:

I Ate My Hamster
06-22-2007, 10:58 PM
jumping through hoops means dealing with people at local goverment agencies who dont understand anything you are talking about and about half the time don't even speak english.


It's America. Learn the languages.

bardy
06-22-2007, 11:09 PM
It's America. Learn the languages.


my bad

trev
06-23-2007, 02:43 AM
i think carbon neutral is a great idea, whatever we can do to influence others to follow suit is worth a try.

i think BC and SP would be somewhat open to the idea, if there are other bands doing the same and if the fans and fansites were actively suggestive and supportive.

Luke de Spa
06-23-2007, 02:43 AM
won't work. bill has a pretty offensive "do what you want" life philosophy. he drives a muscle car ffs

hereisnowhy
06-23-2007, 02:17 PM
won't work. bill has a pretty offensive "do what you want" life philosophy. he drives a muscle car ffs

I remember when "doing what he wanted" meant touring Adore for no money to support youth charities. This wouldn't cost nearly as much.

Mo
06-23-2007, 02:39 PM
I live in a totally neutral country, so no money from me.

Ever
06-23-2007, 07:28 PM
not on LCDs it doesn't. please check your sources more thoroughly ever, this is a serious threadI was repeating from another thread where someone said some trivia where if google switched it's background to black we'd save soooo much power. So I thought it applies to netphoria too.

hereisnowhy
06-24-2007, 01:08 AM
Andrew, did you read my response to your response? I'd hate for this idea to die because I framed the initial proposal the wrong way, emphasizing netphoria's trivial carbon neutrality over the pumpkins' serious carbon neutrality. I can understand lack of enthusiasm for the former, but wouldn't you support the latter?

Luke de Spa
06-24-2007, 02:32 AM
I remember when "doing what he wanted" meant touring Adore for no money
and then he met ken wilbur

Luke de Spa
06-24-2007, 02:36 AM
I was repeating from another thread where someone said some trivia where if google switched it's background to black we'd save soooo much power. So I thought it applies to netphoria too.
it would if it were true.

Trotskilicious
06-24-2007, 02:41 AM
i really think hereisnowhy is kidding

hereisnowhy
06-24-2007, 03:39 PM
i really think hereisnowhy is kidding

No, I'm serious. My mistake was talking about making netphoria carbon neutral when I really want to make the pumpkins carbon neutral.

Look at this article (http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=25300) from four years ago. The pumpkins are behind the times.


LONDON (Billboard) - The Rolling Stones are the first band in the world to undertake an eco-friendly "carbon-neutral" tour. [...]

CarbonNeutral Touring is a scheme that measures emissions of carbon dioxide from any concert and offsets this by planting natural forests and investing in renewable energy. [...]

The cost of about 24,000 pounds ($37,700) works out to 15 pence (20 cents) per ticket, which is being paid in this instance by tour sponsor T-Mobile, a subsidiary of Deutsche Telekom. [...]

Future Forests was conceived in 1996 around a campfire at Glastonbury Festival with the late Clash frontman Joe Strummer (news). Today, acts including Coldplay, Foo Fighters, Pink Floyd and David Gray (news) are involved in Future Forests initiatives, and some 30 million CDs have been made carbon-neutral.


It's important to buy carbon credits from a reliable source so that the money is being spent wisely. But this is no joke. Would you like to see the pumpkins spend tens of thousands of our dollars on clean energy?

Trotskilicious
06-24-2007, 11:28 PM
i wonder how much of that money actually goes to planting forests. i'd suspect almost none of it.

hereisnowhy
06-25-2007, 12:03 AM
i wonder how much of that money actually goes to planting forests. i'd suspect almost none of it.

There have been cases of carbon credit companies acting dishonourably. The same is true for any other kind of company you can name. This is why there is gold standard (http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Climate_Change/What_You_Can_Do/carbon_offsets.asp) certification for carbon credit companies, to ensure solid investments.

Early carbon credit plans involved planting trees, but lately the money is going more towards clean energy infrastructure.