Did the pumpkins have a drummer before Jimmy? Because, in the Avalon show in '88 where they're playing with a drum machine Billy says something like "the reason we aren't playing with a drummer, is 'cause we had a drummer, and he f**ked everything up, so why f**k everything up, you know what I mean?"

Does anyone know? I've never heard anything about them having another drummer before Jimmy...but there's probably lots of stuff I haven't heard, so that doesn't mean much...

ron roesing. he played with the very early pumpkins, but billy never mentions him. he always tells the story where he and james were playing with a drum machine and then met d'arcy in the street one day.

here's the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Roesing
note that most of this page was written by mr. ron roesing himself, so take it with a grain of salt.

ron roesing. he played with the very early pumpkins, but billy never mentions him. he always tells the story where he and james were playing with a drum machine and then met d'arcy in the street one day.

Wow, thanks.

I wonder how he "f**ked everything up"...

I wonder how he "f**ked everything up"...
me too.

ron posted here a couple of months ago, mainly to promote his new ep, i think; and i asked him this very same question. he never answerred.

ron is also mentioned in billy's "confessions" when he's talking about the marked.

It's funny how much Billy is...like Billy (for lack of a better way of putting it) in those early shows. "I mean I don't like playing with a drum machine any more than maybe you don't like hearing it. But I don't have a drummer, so, I'll play".
Arrogant, but in a loveable way.

ron is also mentioned in billy's "confessions" when he's talking about the marked.

I'll re-read that. Interesting.

this part of the confessions suggests ron was never part of the pumpkins.
i'm not sure who to believe, billy or ron.
Not only was The Marked my first real band (for all of just 9 interesting months), but it was also my social circle…Ron the drummer was my best friend, and the band breaking up essentially means, for the most part, losing him and his world…

I get the feeling Billy's confessions are very much influenced by how he might be feeling when he's writing them...not that what he's saying isn't true, but that, if he wrote about some of the things he's talking about at a different time in his life, a different 'truth' would emerge...if you know what I mean.

I guess it might be because he's a passionate person - he might believe 100% in one thing one day, then 100% believe the opposite thing a few years down the track. And he's smart enough to justify his change of opinion.

Kinda getting off the topic of the thread...so I'll shut up now :P

yeah, i also don't read those confessions as "the truth". to me it's more how billy remembers/wants to remember those periods/moments.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I also wonder how much he's thinking about what the fans/public will think when they're reading them, and how much he wants to shape perception of the band. Like, emphasising Jimmy's importance in the band's sound over all the years, and playing down James'.
I like to think he's not thinking like this...but it's a thought.

ever notice how little we've heard of the pumpkins' history from jimmy, james or darcy? it's always been told by billy, he's always been the band's mouthpiece. the other pumpkins need to speak out, i want to hear their versions of the truth.

i'd rather avoid more soap.

<img src="http://www.thesunsofneptune.com/assets/images/tson-new.jpg">

double post

triple post, sorry!!!

I'd say that in this case, Billy's off-the-cuff comments at that Avalon show (with the drum machine) speak volumes more than whatever literarily premeditated reflections he concocted fifteen or so years later for inclusion in "Confessions." (Anyone care to remember what other sorts of silly rubbish Billy was spouting within the same time frame of the Confessions, about such-and-such former SP band member being "immoral," etc. etc.?) I mean, based on his actions and his words (recall the "Recliner" incident where he gave all sorts of obsessive winking and nodding to Billy Corgan's work on his own double alblum..or whatever the hell that was...), Ron clearly has his own self-aggrandizing agenda going on here...but of course Billy has his own agenda for framing history as well. My guess is that Ron probably did work with Billy on some songs which Billy carried over into what he denotes as the genesis of the early Pumpkins (and I'm talking about more than Spiteface, Death of a Mind/Sun)--in any case, they both ended up back in Chicago. From what I've listened to of The Marked, Ron was a pretty decent drummer, too. You can also definitely hear why Billy would hook up with a drummer in the style of Jimmy to fill the void.

I'd say that in this case, Billy's off-the-cuff comments at that Avalon show (with the drum machine) speak volumes more than whatever literarily premeditated reflections he concocted fifteen or so years later for inclusion in "Confessions." (Anyone care to remember what other sorts of silly rubbish Billy was spouting within the same time frame of the Confessions, about such-and-such former SP band member being "immoral," etc. etc.?) I mean, based on his actions and his words (recall the "Recliner" incident where he gave all sorts of obsessive winking and nodding to Billy Corgan's work on his own double alblum..or whatever the hell that was...), Ron clearly has his own self-aggrandizing agenda going on here...but of course Billy has his own agenda for framing history as well. My guess is that Ron probably did work with Billy on some songs which Billy carried over into what he denotes as the genesis of the early Pumpkins (and I'm talking about more than Spiteface, Death of a Mind/Sun)--in any case, they both ended up back in Chicago. From what I've listened to of The Marked, Ron was a pretty decent drummer, too. You can also definitely hear why Billy would hook up with a drummer in the style of Jimmy to fill the void.

I'd say that in this case, Billy's off-the-cuff comments at that Avalon show (with the drum machine) speak volumes more than whatever literarily premeditated reflections he concocted fifteen or so years later for inclusion in "Confessions." (Anyone care to remember what other sorts of silly rubbish Billy was spouting within the same time frame of the Confessions, about such-and-such former SP band member being "immoral," etc. etc.?) I mean, based on his actions and his words (recall the "Recliner" incident where he gave all sorts of obsessive winking and nodding to Billy Corgan's work on his own double alblum..or whatever the hell that was...), Ron clearly has his own self-aggrandizing agenda going on here...but of course Billy has his own agenda for framing history as well. My guess is that Ron probably did work with Billy on some songs which Billy carried over into what he denotes as the genesis of the early Pumpkins (and I'm talking about more than Spiteface, Death of a Mind/Sun)--in any case, they both ended up back in Chicago. From what I've listened to of The Marked, Ron was a pretty decent drummer, too. You can also definitely hear why Billy would hook up with a drummer in the style of Jimmy to fill the void.

I'd say that in this case, Billy's off-the-cuff comments at that Avalon show (with the drum machine) speak volumes more than whatever literarily premeditated reflections he concocted fifteen or so years later for inclusion in "Confessions." (Anyone care to remember what other sorts of silly rubbish Billy was spouting within the same time frame of the Confessions, about such-and-such former SP band member being "immoral," etc. etc.?) I mean, based on his actions and his words (recall the "Recliner" incident where he gave all sorts of obsessive winking and nodding to Billy Corgan's work on his own double alblum..or whatever the hell that was...), Ron clearly has his own self-aggrandizing agenda going on here...but of course Billy has his own agenda for framing history as well. My guess is that Ron probably did work with Billy on some songs which Billy carried over into what he denotes as the genesis of the early Pumpkins (and I'm talking about more than Spiteface, Death of a Mind/Sun)--in any case, they both ended up back in Chicago. From what I've listened to of The Marked, Ron was a pretty decent drummer, too. You can also definitely hear why Billy would hook up with a drummer in the style of Jimmy to fill the void.

we've got quite the discussion going here! I think i'll bookmark this for further reading!

Sorry about all of that!! (I'm embarrassed now... :blush: )
My computer was lagging and I had no idea that I did that.

Carry on...

I'd say that in this case, Billy's off-the-cuff comments at that Avalon show (with the drum machine) speak volumes more than whatever literarily premeditated reflections he concocted fifteen or so years later for inclusion in "Confessions." (Anyone care to remember what other sorts of silly rubbish Billy was spouting within the same time frame of the Confessions, about such-and-such former SP band member being "immoral," etc. etc.?) I mean, based on his actions and his words (recall the "Recliner" incident where he gave all sorts of obsessive winking and nodding to Billy Corgan's work on his own double alblum..or whatever the hell that was...), Ron clearly has his own self-aggrandizing agenda going on here...but of course Billy has his own agenda for framing history as well. My guess is that Ron probably did work with Billy on some songs which Billy carried over into what he denotes as the genesis of the early Pumpkins (and I'm talking about more than Spiteface, Death of a Mind/Sun)--in any case, they both ended up back in Chicago. From what I've listened to of The Marked, Ron was a pretty decent drummer, too. You can also definitely hear why Billy would hook up with a drummer in the style of Jimmy to fill the void.

um... Ron and Jimmy stylisticly are not in the same ball park, let alone league...

ron roesing. he played with the very early pumpkins, but billy never mentions him. he always tells the story where he and james were playing with a drum machine and then met d'arcy in the street one day.




wouldnt be the first time somebody met d'arcy in the street one day....

according to the "Nothing Ever Changes" J-card, Ron was the drummer at least for a little while


http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f175/cgormer/demoArtb.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f175/cgormer/demoArt2bb.jpg

Has anyone listend to his Myspace songs? actually not terrible; kinda like the Iha input into the pumpkins (the first one actually reminds me alot of Blew Away, and the lead guitar line is a total ripoff of many things from Mellon Colle)

Ahhh, evidence. :)

um... Ron and Jimmy stylisticly are not in the same ball park, let alone league...
Oh, no, I wasn't trying to insinuate that Ron and Jimmy are of equal musical ability at all (I can see how it sounded that way though.) But for the type of songs Billy was producing at the time (and how much the drummers actually shaped the full realization of them, I don't know,) Ron works on them and is not exactly shitty. The songs are also quite drum heavy and rhythmic (the ones actually with real drums, that is) and there's a variance in how the kit is used within the songs which has a bit more variance than some other styles employed for rock.
Perhaps also there is the effect (probable) of Billy continuing to construct songs as if to accomodate and complement Ron's style even after Jimmy has joined...the case could certainly be made from the kind of material which appears though 1988 and as late as the 89 demos.

Stumpycat?! wow...old school

Stumpycat?! wow...old school
Yeah, I've been around these parts since the inception of this website (around 1997 or so, that was!) My post count was far higher before my account got wiped...but whatever. :shrugs:

p.s. Billy's hand-made J-cards were always just so ernestly, endearingly artsy, weren't they? I mean, really...I can just imagine him at the at the Eckerd's budget Xerox now, copying off random magazine clippings...