should i seek professional help?

Yes.

thanks john.

TFE is cool man stop dicking on it

But I'm not clicking on it.

Well the choices were either MSOTS or TFE. You had to pick the lesser of two evils.

TFE is good. Just because some people can't deal with change doesn't mean that something's not good.

When TFE was released, it made me realise how rubbish all the music I'd started to listen to in the absence of Corgan was. Just a pity there weren't more songs, b-sides, anything, to go with it. But then I suppose that's what the reunion is about.

Favourite billy album - or favourite album album?

MSOTS was so better than TFE. Zwan was a good band, but they saved their best songs for oblivion.

Favourite billy album - or favourite album album?
GREAT ALBUM - OR THE GREATEST ALBUM?

GREAT ALBUM - OR THE GREATEST ALBUM?
I don't think TFE will ever try to take that title.

Yep I always wished he would release TFE - Acoustic as a counterpoint.. more singles perhaps even some vinyl or b sides... but noooo

Sometimes I wish he would release all the material he sits on... just for me.

And I really like TFE... listening to it reminds me of wandering around London before the forum shows..

Yep I always wished he would release TFE - Acoustic as a counterpoint.. more singles perhaps even some vinyl or b sides... but noooo

Sometimes I wish he would release all the material he sits on... just for me.

And I really like TFE... listening to it reminds me of wandering around London before the forum shows..

yeah, shame we didn't meet up, i was there the 2nd night and met christhimself and radiofred

Favourite billy album - or favourite album album?

album album. i love other bands, but billy has that musical midas touch. anything he does just completely overrides my love for anything else. and i think TFE is honestly just as good, or possibly better, than anything he's ever done. it is a work of formidable vision and talent.

they met me as well apparently, I do remember it briefly. Think i met marrsguitar or spguitar one of them anyway.

fine, it isn't mine. what's the point of this

fine, it isn't mine. what's the point of this

what the heck is that flower icon under your rep bar?

There's nothing wrong with liking tfe.

My not liking it proved to me that I'd not lost my musical objectivity, at least.

what the heck is that flower icon under your rep bar?

I didn't think people still used ICQ.

I did back in the day.

Memories.

I don't think TFE will ever try to take that title.
i'll just put you down for great then.

album album. i love other bands, but billy has that musical midas touch. anything he does just completely overrides my love for anything else. and i think TFE is honestly just as good, or possibly better, than anything he's ever done. it is a work of formidable vision and talent.
how is it better than, say, kid a

how is it better than, say, kid a

well, i love kid a, but i guess i can give a few reasons.

-i find kid a rather patchy and not as cohesive as tfe.
-kid a is mostly a very cold, calculated, computronic record. i think radiohead's more abstract works often go over people's heads, mine inkluded. tfe, whilst sonically far-fetched, is still rooted firmly in place by billy's emotional songwriting. as i've said before, radiohead nowadays tend to write with their minds, whilst billy writes with his heart. and i think emotional rather than supposedly intelligent music will always be more profound.
-tfe is a more satisfying album on repeated listens. buried in the wash of distortion and synth are innovative, driving melodies and some very effective soundscaping, moulded into shape with excellent production. kid a feels very flat and icy to me, and its so musically self-interested that it shuts me out, i don't feel like there is much to identify with or explore in it.
-you've got to look at the wider vision: tfe has the bizarre but awesome punktorian futuristic visual backdrop to set the music against and give it some kind of context- as an allegory for what "thefutureembrace" actually is, he revisits a previous era in modern revolution and revamps it. kid a may evoke similarly dystopian visions, but in an altogether stranger, more displaced way. it just doesn't work on as many levels as tfe.

well, i love kid a, but i guess i can give a few reasons.

-i find kid a rather patchy and not as cohesive as tfe.
-kid a is mostly a very cold, calculated, computronic record. i think radiohead's more abstract works often go over people's heads, mine inkluded. tfe, whilst sonically far-fetched, is still rooted firmly in place by billy's emotional songwriting. as i've said before, radiohead nowadays tend to write with their minds, whilst billy writes with his heart. and i think emotional rather than supposedly intelligent music will always be more profound.
-tfe is a more satisfying album on repeated listens. buried in the wash of distortion and synth are innovative, driving melodies and some very effective soundscaping, moulded into shape with excellent production. kid a feels very flat and icy to me, and its so musically self-interested that it shuts me out, i don't feel like there is much to identify with or explore in it.
-you've got to look at the wider vision: tfe has the bizarre but awesome punktorian futuristic visual backdrop to set the music against and give it some kind of context- as an allegory for what "thefutureembrace" actually is, he revisits a previous era in modern revolution and revamps it. kid a may evoke similarly dystopian visions, but in an altogether stranger, more displaced way. it just doesn't work on as many levels as tfe.


you fucking win.

and like Kahlo says, listening to TFE reminds me of hanging out in Chicago before the show, or at the adler release party.

Woaw, nice post Izzle. I agree whole heartedly. I have found there to be some very sincere emotions routed throughout TFE that give it the same human touch the rest of Corgan's work thrives off of. First and foremost TFE is an album about Corgan, a lot of the songs seem to be connected with who he is and how he feels (All Things Change, Mina Loy, Camera Eye, Strayz, I'm Ready) and that in itself makes it fascinating in a way that very few albums are. Listening to TFE is like seeing the world from Corgan's perspective.

well, i love kid a, but i guess i can give a few reasons.

-i find kid a rather patchy and not as cohesive as tfe.
-kid a is mostly a very cold, calculated, computronic record. i think radiohead's more abstract works often go over people's heads, mine inkluded. tfe, whilst sonically far-fetched, is still rooted firmly in place by billy's emotional songwriting. as i've said before, radiohead nowadays tend to write with their minds, whilst billy writes with his heart. and i think emotional rather than supposedly intelligent music will always be more profound.
-tfe is a more satisfying album on repeated listens. buried in the wash of distortion and synth are innovative, driving melodies and some very effective soundscaping, moulded into shape with excellent production. kid a feels very flat and icy to me, and its so musically self-interested that it shuts me out, i don't feel like there is much to identify with or explore in it.
-you've got to look at the wider vision: tfe has the bizarre but awesome punktorian futuristic visual backdrop to set the music against and give it some kind of context- as an allegory for what "thefutureembrace" actually is, he revisits a previous era in modern revolution and revamps it. kid a may evoke similarly dystopian visions, but in an altogether stranger, more displaced way. it just doesn't work on as many levels as tfe.

i generally find myself in agreement with this post. ^

i also think if Luke De Spa would have mentioned Hail to the Thief, the defense of TFE would have been SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult, if not impossible.

I personally put TFE on a similar level as Kid A and Amnesiac (i.e. somewhat disappointing intially, with some tracks that are severely lacking, but still overall a good listen from time to time as long as its not too often).

TFE is good. Just because some people can't deal with change doesn't mean that something's not good.


Exactly! I have been saying this for a long time. Screw all these losers that are stuck in the past, just like about 90% of these fake fans here.

In the words of Billy himself, all things change and so does his musical styles.

i also think if Luke De Spa would have mentioned Hail to the Thief, the defense of TFE would have been SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult, if not impossible.



but HTTT is a very very different album from TFE. i think kid a and tfe are about as close a comparison as one could get. unless you want to start talking about the eraser again :p

i don't remember hearing about any others. too bad really, i was up for a punktorian breakdance video

seriously, i'm not even just being a dickhead when i say that TFE sucks, it really does suck, and everything about his image and his tour at the time of TFE screams pretenciousness, like he is demanding respect for beauty that he can't deliver. I just hope that next time he can live up to his own expectations and make some music i (and most listeners) care to tune into to.
It is not an issue of being a REAL fan or not.

It is not an issue of being a REAL fan or not.
i disagree.

It's a matter of Opinion. TFE was different... I didn't really like Machina the first time it came out, I thought it was too far out. I guess it was ahead of its time... now I can't stop listening to it, it's one of their best, IMO. Who knows, maybe TFE will have the same effect in the future. It is different, yes. but it far from sucked. then again, that's just me :)

i don't remember hearing about any others. too bad really, i was up for a punktorian breakdance video

yes, WS was the only single.

well, i love kid a, but i guess i can give a few reasons.

ok so how is it better than any other album that's obviously better than tfe? like, oh inverted world by the shins or ghosts of the great highway by sun kil moon or sufjan stevens's work or antony and the johnsons even

ok so how is it better than any other album that's obviously better than tfe? like, oh inverted world by the shins or ghosts of the great highway by sun kil moon or sufjan stevens's work or antony and the johnsons even

why don't you have a go and tell me why you think any of those are better than tfe. i'm not saying that as a challenge to you, you may well be correct, but as i'm sure you know by now, i firmly believe that virtually any of billy's major works can be argued to have more significance, artistic merit and sheer power than those by almost any other contemporary artist.

heard any augie march, isle?

sorry i haven't replied to your post yet; haven't had time to give it the reply it deserves. i'll have a good look at it again tonight

I liked MSOTS! There! It's out! I feel better now...

I liked MSOTS! There! It's out! I feel better now...
Deep down inside we all did, but these fuckers can't stand anything that's too happy.

i suspect the problem many of us have with the album is not that it's happy, but that it's mediocre

i suspect the problem many of us have with the album is not that it's happy, but that it's mediocre
Well that could be the case, yes.

i'm still waiting for those replies alex, lucky day.

i need something trivial to argue about

shit, i totally forgot about this thread

i'm still waiting for those replies alex, lucky day.

i need something trivial to argue about
you know as well as i that the only good answer i could give you would be a yousendit link, and even if i did load it all up, which would take me ages to finish, you're against downloading and all

you know as well as i that the only good answer i could give you would be a yousendit link, and even if i did load it all up, which would take me ages to finish, you're against downloading and all

i'm only against downloading if the artist doesn't want their stuff downloaded. otherwise, fire away

I was highly anticipating TFE - well it did dissapoint me though I must say
I realy like three or four songs - but even not the whole album
Zwan was dissapointing as well - I couldn't even make it to listen through the whole record

i'm only against downloading if the artist doesn't want their stuff downloaded. otherwise, fire away

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/feature/29535/Interview_Interview_Sufjan_Stevens

Sufjan: "It's definitely not public domain. I have a publisher and I make money from the publishing of the songs. That's a big part of an income, so I'm not going to pretend that I'm that socialistic about my music. But I'm not so possessive about it that I would sue anyone who misused it. If someone were to sample my work, I would have a hard time seeking payment for that. I don't even have a problem with people illegally downloading that stuff."

http://torrentspy.com/torrent/336779/Sufjan_Stevens_Illinois_2005

oh, you will need bit torrent to download that. google it.

ok, so i actually looked for all those links and everything, yes, it didn't take me long, but still, reply, you penishead

tfe really just wasnt that good of an album....