View Full Version : so why didn't SP/Corgan demos surface post Machina?


Ugly
04-24-2006, 02:45 AM
Or even durring Machina? I's gots demos of pre-gish, gish, SD, MCIS, Adore .... and then, aside from Machina acoustic demos & Disco King... Jack n' All. No Zwan demos. No TFE demos. Hell, barely any Machina demos.

Wha Happened?

Not that I'm choping at the bit for it or anything. I just find it odd.

Dead
04-24-2006, 02:47 AM
There's a buttload of Machina era stuff. I have at least 30 non-album tracks probably.

Ugly
04-24-2006, 02:51 AM
do you mean MII and crap like that? this is really a casual question / thread. I'm not looking for one/ two line "oh, there's so much out there" kind of B.S. answers because, fuck it, life's too short of people to flaunt shit.

Azael
04-24-2006, 02:53 AM
We got Zwan pre-mixes.
Anyway, it could just be one of the following:

1. The security is tighter. Billy probably doesn't wanna let anything out as easily.
2. There's less interest in them, I mean, weren't Pumpkins demos stolen? Who really wants to steal a Walking Shade demo?
or
3. It will just take a while. Some unheard Zeppelin stuff still appears today.

Dead
04-24-2006, 02:54 AM
Wait you want casual and no flaunting but you want a specific detailed list?

Ugly
04-24-2006, 03:02 AM
no, not a list, and not one line "I have stuff" BS answers, either. Just explanations is all.

Ugly
04-24-2006, 03:06 AM
We got Zwan pre-mixes.

2. There's less interest in them

I would assume that's it. But, on the flipside, wouldn't there still be the Corgan sycofants who wait eagerly by their master's side with their mouths open to get a taste of Corgan studio/demo jizz runoff? Christ, we're still posting here. I'm assuming down the line the same ppl would still remain on the food chain.

Junebug
04-24-2006, 03:42 AM
for some reason i think that there just wasn't that much zwan stuff to go around in the first place. i'd think that either they didn't record some of the songs we heard live, or they got hoarded by billy pretty early on. As far as his solo stuff...who knows. Maybe since it's just him, plus there's no D4 around, it's essentially impossible to get any unreleased stuff...?

basically what i'm saying is that i have no clue.

tcm
04-24-2006, 04:53 AM
yeah, regarding MACHINA demos, there's the other stuff on the FAEOMM tape besides Disco King as well. there's more MACHINA demos around than Adore demos and SD demos...

oh yeah, how about those SD demos?

Fritter
04-24-2006, 05:14 AM
I have a question thats kind of related. Does anyone have or know anything about the SD Meladori Magpie, according to wikipedia it was recorded, but then again it is wikipedia.

hereisnowhy
04-25-2006, 01:36 PM
I think partly it just usually takes a few years for these things to happen. Look how long it took to get the gravity demos.

Also the fact that it's been different bands and solo acts, instead of just pumpkins all the way, may mean a lack of continuity as far as procedures or people in the loop go. Who knows.

tcm
04-25-2006, 02:16 PM
look how long it took to get the SD demos! ...

tcm
04-25-2006, 02:21 PM
I have a question thats kind of related. Does anyone have or know anything about the SD Meladori Magpie, according to wikipedia it was recorded, but then again it is wikipedia.
Fall 1992 - Chicago Studio [?]


Tracks Recorded

* Quiet
* Hello Kitty Kat
* Cherub Rock
* (Suicide Kiss)
* Today
* Disarm
* Rocket
* Spaceboy
* Set the Ray to Jerry
* Soma
* Whir (Whirl)
* Meladori Magpie (Doorstep)
* Pissant
* (Tulips)
* Hummer
* French Movie Theme


Notes

This is a tape of Siamese Dream demos submitted to Virgin Records in 1992, called "Quiet and Other Songs: A Collection of Songs for Album II." Doorstep is an early version of Meladori Magpie and featured a full-band arrangement. Suicide Kiss was said to have evolved into a number of different songs, including Geek USA. Hello Kitty Kat was at this time simply titled Kitty Kat.
but, like, nobody has it, and stuff.

Phoenix Down
04-25-2006, 02:37 PM
do you mean MII and crap like that?

you realize it's a pretty sweet album, right?

Axis of Action
04-25-2006, 02:42 PM
There's a buttload of Machina era stuff. I have at least 30 non-album tracks probably.

what tracks would those be? for clarification.

jack_kerouac03
04-25-2006, 02:44 PM
Joe Shanahan had 'Zwan Demos' listed on his "currently listening" page on The Metro's website before the record came out. I'm sure they exist, but they aren't available.

Imaskingforit!
04-25-2006, 04:01 PM
tilt was the only released TFE b side right?

Dead
04-25-2006, 04:06 PM
what tracks would those be? for clarification.
Hmm...

Machina b-sides
MAD
M2 b-sides
FAEOMM tape tracks
Judas O tracks
Untitled b-sides
this is all I can think of right now.

Dead
04-25-2006, 04:08 PM
tilt was the only released TFE b side right?
Ya but it's more of a bonus track or something.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Ya but it's more of a bonus track or something.
I'd go for "non-album track".

hereisnowhy
04-25-2006, 09:05 PM
Meladori Magpie is such a better name than Doorstop. Just like Siamese Dream is better than Definitely Maybe. Good work, Billy, on the title revisions.

tcm
04-26-2006, 10:50 AM
what the heck's it even mean, man. what the heck's a meladori.

Axis of Action
04-26-2006, 01:59 PM
Hmm...

Machina b-sides
MAD
M2 b-sides
FAEOMM tape tracks
Judas O tracks
Untitled b-sides
this is all I can think of right now.

all right that's essentially what I figured, I just wanted to make sure nothing had come out in the last year since I kind of stopped paying attention.

hereisnowhy
04-26-2006, 02:07 PM
It's a clever play on the words melody and... dori.

tcm
04-26-2006, 02:16 PM
then it should be Melo...dori. where'd the a come from, hereisnowhy?! RIGHT.

Dead
04-26-2006, 03:04 PM
all right that's essentially what I figured, I just wanted to make sure nothing had come out in the last year since I kind of stopped paying attention.
Nope.

transluscent
04-26-2006, 07:09 PM
yeah we got rough mixes and pre-masters from zwan

Ramdust
04-26-2006, 08:58 PM
There's a buttload of Machina era stuff.

And some of it (http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D0643E3E48A843A1) is really fucking good.

hereisnowhy
04-26-2006, 10:07 PM
then it should be Melo...dori. where'd the a come from, hereisnowhy?! RIGHT.

But Billy loves to misspell words in charming ways. Like Mellon Collie.

Dead
04-26-2006, 11:47 PM
And some of it (http://beta.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D0643E3E48A843A1) is really fucking good.
Most of it!

tcm
04-27-2006, 07:41 AM
But Billy loves to misspell words in charming ways. Like Mellon Collie.
Mellon and Collie are not misspelt.

myosis
04-27-2006, 08:43 AM
Mellon and Collie are not misspelt.

yes it should be melon colley.
mmmmm... melon colley...

hereisnowhy
04-27-2006, 12:13 PM
Mellon and Collie are not misspelt.

True, but neither is Meladori, if you follow me.

tcm
04-27-2006, 12:20 PM
I MEAN THEY'RE NOT MADE-UP WORDS THEY'RE REAL WORDS LIKE CARNEGIE MELLON AND BORDER COLLIE!! ARGH!!

tcm
04-27-2006, 12:21 PM
carnegie mellons are delicious in summertime.

tcm
04-27-2006, 12:21 PM
border collies more a winter treat.

hereisnowhy
04-27-2006, 04:13 PM
But put together those words do not equal melancholy, which is what most people read when they see the album title.

tcm
04-27-2006, 04:23 PM
i wonder how these so-called people read the so-called words "meladori magpie" in all their illiteracy.

Junebug
04-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Hmm...
M2 b-sides


can you list off a few? i'm not sure if i have these but think of them as something else, or what.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-27-2006, 04:35 PM
Aren't half of the songs of Machina II considered b-sides (by some)?

As in:
2 x 12" (CR04): a-sides
3 x 10" (CR01, CR02 & CR03): b-sides

No?

tcm
04-27-2006, 04:46 PM
Aren't half of the songs of Machina II considered b-sides (by some)? by anyone who isn't an idiot!

As in:
2 x 12" (CR04): a-sides no. a-side means single. there aren't any. well, maybe Real Love, since it was on Rotten Apples.

3 x 10" (CR01, CR02 & CR03): b-sides right.

Luke de Spa
04-27-2006, 06:07 PM
how can there be b-sides if there aren't any a-sides, tcm

tcm
04-27-2006, 06:31 PM
thanks for asking, Lucky Day Spa.

we use the term "b-side" as equivalent to "outtake released alongside corresponding album rather than exclusively within the context of a compilation later on" here, because, had MACHINA II been a standard commercial release, those tracks would presumably have been put out as or at least considered for release as b-sides.

ask yourself this. how can there be b-sides when a cd has only one side?

indeed. so you can see we are working with an outdated term to begin with. we may as well continue to stretch it as artists like Billy Corgan continue to push the boundaries on how their works can be presented.

tcm
04-27-2006, 06:33 PM
but please, let's not get into these sorts of "philosophical" discussions here. that business has its place, and this is not it.

Luke de Spa
04-27-2006, 06:51 PM
they're EP tracks rather than b-sides, surely. when a boundary-pushing artist like billy corgan is involved, who are you to classify an actuality based on what you suspect would have happened in another situation? bill = chaos. he can't be predicted

tcm
04-27-2006, 06:55 PM
we call EP tracks "b-sides" too. get with the program.

Luke de Spa
04-27-2006, 07:01 PM
that's ridiculous

tcm
04-27-2006, 07:02 PM
it's a ridiculous world.

Luke de Spa
04-27-2006, 07:15 PM
that's ridiculous
you should offer reasons on thoughts

Luke de Spa
04-27-2006, 07:16 PM
it's a ridiculous world.
thanks for presenting a red herring

hereisnowhy
04-27-2006, 09:32 PM
i wonder how these so-called people read the so-called words "meladori magpie" in all their illiteracy.

So now your incredulity is extended also to the word magpie? For shame, cockmuncher, for shame.

But to return to the issue at hand, you need to realize that we are dealing with an avant garde artist here who is pushing the boundaries on how words can be presented. Shakespeare and Milton invented dozens of words. I, for one, will not be surprised to see meladori enter common usage over the next decade.

tcm
04-27-2006, 11:15 PM
So now your incredulity is extended also to the word magpie?
strawman. mellon:meladori::collie:magpie. alright, i think i've answered my own question there. way to go, me.

Cool As Ice Cream
04-28-2006, 11:48 AM
no. a-side means single. there aren't any.
ok.

Dead
04-28-2006, 02:22 PM
Direct quote from Billy in reference to the M2 EPs: "essentially the b-sides"

Ugly
04-28-2006, 02:26 PM
This conversation makes me feel quite b-side myself.

Dead
04-28-2006, 02:42 PM
This conversation makes me feel quite b-side myself.
http://www.emotioneric.com/surprise-b.jpg

douglas78
04-28-2006, 02:59 PM
yeah, regarding MACHINA demos, there's the other stuff on the FAEOMM tape besides Disco King as well. there's more MACHINA demos around than Adore demos and SD demos...

oh yeah, how about those SD demos?


i like the dross version on FAEOMM tape better than the one on M2.

tcm
04-28-2006, 03:15 PM
i like the dross version on FAEOMM tape better than the one on M2.
okay.

Tribute2JohnnyB
04-28-2006, 03:41 PM
http://www.emotioneric.com/surprise-b.jpg

muuaaahhawhahhahhahahaaaa

Junebug
04-28-2006, 04:29 PM
Direct quote from Billy in reference to the M2 EPs: "essentially the b-sides"

essentially. but i wouldn't call them that. i'd call them the M2 EPs. eh whatever.

ZEROpumpkins
04-28-2006, 09:18 PM
Or even durring Machina? I's gots demos of pre-gish, gish, SD, MCIS, Adore .... and then, aside from Machina acoustic demos & Disco King... Jack n' All. No Zwan demos. No TFE demos. Hell, barely any Machina demos.

Wha Happened?

Not that I'm choping at the bit for it or anything. I just find it odd.
Perhaps with better technology, Billy was able to stop demo leaks? Just a guess.

transluscent
04-28-2006, 09:38 PM
you must be kind of dumb, billy put out most of the circulating demos himself

hereisnowhy
04-28-2006, 09:57 PM
When we go a long time without any new demos coming out I start to feel a little meladori.

tcm
04-28-2006, 10:58 PM
you smell a little meladori, if you ask me.

Ugly
04-29-2006, 02:54 AM
you must be kind of dumb, billy put out most of the circulating demos himself

how was I supposed to know that? Magic 8-Ball?

Azael
04-29-2006, 03:24 AM
you must be kind of dumb, billy put out most of the circulating demos himself
Other than the FAEOMM tape (+ Firewall) and the Gravity Demos, what else did Billy put out there himself? Am I missing anything?
MAD, Mashed Potatoes, RTS and so forth were given to friends and circulated against Billy's wishes, so I wouldn't think they'd count. The Adore Demos were bought off Ebay, along with MCIS Demos II and the Marked demo tapes.

Dead
04-29-2006, 03:36 AM
Hmm.. I think you are correct. Oh yeah Machina II.