View Full Version : So, the new holy grail?


sarmatianus
01-15-2003, 02:46 AM
First off, I am VERY grateful that MP was released. So I don't want to hear anyone saying that now that it's released, a thread like this is emerging out of ennui. I haven't even listened to all of it yet, but my ears are very happy.

Nonetheless, out of personal curiousity, what will be declared now as the new holy grail of the community?

An obvious first candidate would be the Avalon show, but from what I have heard, it seems like it's circulating slowly and covertly, but at a rate at which it will be beyond preventing a leak sometime in the near future.

My nomination would be for the so-called "LoC" tape - mostly for reasons that I just researched and discovered:

1. There are no other known copies confirmed to be in anybody's possession (though Billy, at the least, undoubtedly has one).

2. The tape is in the possession of the Copyright Office not the Library of Congress. This is an important distinction, because although the Copyright Office operates under the LoC, its depository holdings are independent of the LoC stacks.

3. Unlike the rather restrictive provisions of the LoC listening rooms, there are absolutely no standard accessings of Copyright deposits.

"Copies of deposits may be obtained upon the request of the owner of the copyright in the deposit, by an attorney in connection with litigation involving the copyrighted work, and through a court order issued by a court having jurisdiction in a case in which the copy is to be submitted as evidence."

4. Security procedures for the entire LoC campus of buildings, as well as penalties for violations are stringent enough to scare away, well, anyone with either or a brain or anything less than secret agent skills. http://www.loc.gov/rr/security/

Yeah, so I think that it's not gonna happen. I know that this conversation has been had many times before, but to my knowledge, I don't think the LoC vs. Copyright Office difference was noted or mentioned. And it changes the chances of it being listened to by any of us, much less a copy coming out of there, from extremely slim to virtually nil. Oh well.

sarasvati
01-15-2003, 03:20 AM
It all sounds really interesting...and I'd love to hear the recording. Although at this point, it seems pretty impossible, unless Billy gives the recording to someone, who then gives it to us :) Or someone gets a job at the Library of Congress and somehow obtains the recording through the high security...

Smiley
01-15-2003, 03:54 AM
I don't think the SD demos are the next holy grail. I'd rather have 12/2/00, or the "25 Songs O' Pumpkins" video.

But yeah, okay... I guess after those two, the Siamese Dream demos would be my next holy grail (probably tied with Avalon and the "I Fall" demo). But it's silly to even talk about them, because I think they're pretty much out of our hands. It's sorta like that pro-shot Arising Tour footage that the band used for the Untitled video. Yes, it exists... but good luck getting a copy of it.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

sarmatianus
01-15-2003, 04:40 AM
I guess by holy grail status, I mean desireability of the contents of the item combined with the difficulty of obtaining it. I don't see 12/2 being as difficult as this. At least we had a promise (forgotten, perhaps) of a dvd as well as half of the show in good circulation and at least three other recordings in underground circles.

As for the Adore shows...that's nice and all, but to me it's not as cool. First of all, we have many of those shows in nice recordings. Second, most of us don't really watch concert videos more than a handful of times.

The allure of the SD demos is both the completely otherwise unknown songs on that tape as well as the possibilities of how the songs we know and love would sound in demo form. That to me brings it up to that level.

Is 25 Songs the same as Fruit Bat Salad?

Smiley
01-15-2003, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
I guess by holy grail status, I mean desireability of the contents of the item combined with the difficulty of obtaining it.

Ah, okay... I was just figuring based on desireability, regardless of the difficulty of obtaining it.

Originally posted by sarmatianus
As for the Adore shows...that's nice and all, but to me it's not as cool. First of all, we have many of those shows in nice recordings. Second, most of us don't really watch concert videos more than a handful of times.

Well I said Arising Tour, and I hardly consider that to be Adore era. :p The difference, of course, is that there are already tons of pro-shot Adore shows. But you're right, most traders don't give a damn about videos. Then again, I was posting what <i>I</i> would personally want the most... not what most traders would want. :p

Originally posted by sarmatianus
The allure of the SD demos is both the completely otherwise unknown songs on that tape as well as the possibilities of how the songs we know and love would sound in demo form. That to me brings it up to that level.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I'd kill for that Suicide Kiss recording!

Originally posted by sarmatianus
Is 25 Songs the same as Fruit Bat Salad?

No, 25 Songs O' Pumpkins is also commonly known as the "Psycho" video. It has I'm Free, My Dahlia (rehearsal), Sun, Spiteface, Venus In Furs, Jennifer Ever, I Am One, Rhinoceros, There it Goes, She, My Eternity, Billy and Bob at Geraldo, all of 10/31/89, and some Marked stuff. *drools*

I guess I'm missing 4 of the songs in my little list there, to make the total of 25... can anybody tell me what's on there that I don't know about? :confused:

GhostChild
01-15-2003, 06:07 AM
Theres a Doors cover song in the 25 songs as well.

Axis of Action
01-15-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Smiley


Yeah, I guess you're right. I'd kill for that Suicide Kiss recording!



I'd slaughter ten men (brutally) in perfect health for a copy of Suicide Kiss. Geek U.S.A. has to be one of my top 10 favorite Pumpkins songs, and obviously Suicide Kiss is the holy grail in reference to that.

:D

azvd
01-15-2003, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
My nomination would be for the so-called "LoC" tape

As far as I've been told, these demos are a made-up story. No one ever confirmed those were true. I'm not saying they don't exist, but afaik the LoC story was nothing but a troll. But like Thom Yorke would say, "I might be wrooooong".

As for the new holy grail, I'd go with Avalon. First one that comes to mind.

-AZVD.

Kumar Littlejeans
01-15-2003, 06:28 AM
It's the Adore tour documentary they had clips from on the virgin site.

Smiley
01-15-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by azvd
As far as I've been told, these demos are a made-up story. No one ever confirmed those were true. I'm not saying they don't exist, but afaik the LoC story was nothing but a troll. But like Thom Yorke would say, "I might be wrooooong".

But um... if you search the LOC copywrite website, you can find it listed...

http://www.copyright.gov/records

Here are a few of my favorites, with my comments after each one:

Registration Number: PA-853-135
Title: Parallel stories / written, produced and performed by Billy Corgan ; drums by Matt Walker.
In: Ramsom, original soundtrack. mHollywood Records HR-62086-2, c1996. Compact disc
Claimant: Touchstone Pictures Music & Songs
Created: 1996
Published: 26Nov96
Registered: 21Jul97
Author on © Application: music: Ransom Productions, Inc., employer for hire.

The other Ransom songs are copywrited also. This one is interesting because it's a song that appears on the Ransom soundtrack, but not as done by Billy and Matt.

Registration Number: PAu-2-358-374
Title: The Hexen tapes.
Description: Videocassette ; 1/2 in.
Claimant: Jim Malone
Created: 1985
Registered: 23Dec98
Author on © Application: music: acJim Malone , 1966-, John Sterba , 1967-, & Bill Corgan , 1967-.
Special Codes: 3/M

How's that for a holy grail? :)

Registration Number: PA-815-044
Title: Pastichio medley.
Note: Performed by the aSmashing Pumpkins.
In: Zero. mVirgin Records America 7243 8 38545 2 3 v25g-38545, c1996. Compact disc
Claimant: D'Arcy Wretzsky-Brown, Cinderful Music, Chrysalis Songs, James Chamberlin & Cellophane Star Music
Created: 1995
Published: 23Apr96
Registered: 30Sep96
Author on © Application: music: William Patrick Corgan, James Iha, acD'Arcy Wretzsky-Brown & acJames Chamberlin.

I like that one because it's the only one I saw that credits the entire band.

Registration Number: PA-1-081-010
Title: Machina II : The friends & enemies of modern music.
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: Faust's Haus Music
Created: 1999
Published: 5Sep00
Registered: 15Apr02
Title on © Application: Slow down.
Author on © Application: lyrics & music: William Corgan , 1967-.

Cassette, eh? I like that the publication date on this one is correct... that's the date that Machina 2 exploded onto the internet.

Registration Number: SRu-156-827
Title: Brain tripping--mind dripping.
Description: sound cassette.
Note: Cataloged from appl. Additional ti.: The Smashing pumpkins.
Claimant: (c) (p) William Corgan
Created: 1989
Registered: 24May89
Author on © Application: music, lyrics, performance, recording: William Patrick Corgan.
Special Codes: 37/N

The time of registration and the additional title of "The Smashing pumpkins" seems to imply that this was the self-titled demo tape. I wonder why the performance is listed as Billy, and not the whole band. That could have easily been a mistake though.

Registration Number: PAu-1-211-872
Title: The Smashing Pumpkins.
Description: 1 sound cassette.
Note: Two selections.
Claimant: William Corgan
Created: 1989
Registered: 28Mar89
Author on © Application: words & music: William P. Corgan.
Special Codes: 3/M

Not sure what this one is.

<i>Registration Number: PAu-1-699-154
Title: Quiet, & 20 other songs / w & m William Patrick Corgan.
Claimant: Cinderful Music & Chrysalis Songs
Created: 1992
Registered: 28Dec92
Miscellaneous: See also Quiet, and other songs; REG 22Dec94; PAu 1-960-171 & REG 27Feb96; PAu 2-055-159
Special Codes: 3/M </i>

Thar she blows!

<i>Registration Number: PAu-1-699-155
Title: Mayonaze / w & m William Patrick Corgan & acJames Iha.
Claimant: Cinderful Music, Chrysalis Songs, & James Iha
Created: 1992
Registered: 28Dec92
Special Codes: 3/M</i>

um, yeah.

<i>Registration Number: PAu-1-960-171
Title: Quiet, & other songs; a collection of songs for album II. By William Patrick Corgan.
Note: (C.O. corres.) CONTENTS: Quiet. Kitty kat. Cherub rock. Suicide kiss. Today. Disarm. Rocket. Space boy. Set the ray to Jerry. Soma. Whirl. Doorstep. Pissant. Tulips. Hummer. French movie theme.
Claimant: Cinderful Music & Chrysalis SongsSREG: PAu 1-699-154, 1992
Effective Registration Date: 22Dec94
Special Codes: 3/M/X </i>

So, the first one was registered at the end of 1992, before SD was finished. Mayo was registered onthe same day, on a separate tape... maybe so James could claim it, or maybe it was just a last minute thing. This one, on the other hand, is from 1994. Notice that this is "Quiet & other songs" (15 other songs, according to the list). But the other one was "Quiet & 20 other songs"! :eek: I also think it's interesting that French Movie Theme is on here. I'd guess that it probably wasn't on the 1992 tape... Billy probably just threw it on here so he wouldn't have to copywrite it separately.

<i>Registration Number: PAu-2-055-159
Title: Quiet, & other songs. By William Patrick Corgan.
Note: Statement of incorrect inclusion of a contents title. CONTENTS: Quiet. Kitty kat. Cherub rock. Suicide kiss. Today. Disarm. Rocket. Space boy. Set the ray to Jerry. Whirl. Doorstep. Pissant. Tulips. Hummer. French movie theme
Claimant: Cinderful Music & Chrysalis SongsSREG: PAu 1-699-154, 1992
Effective Registration Date: 27Feb96
Special Codes: 3/M/X </i>

Wow, 1996 and Billy was still fussing over the SD demos? I also think it's strange that the titles weren't updated/fixed. It seems like this registration was only to remove the phrase "a collection of songs for album II. By William Patrick Corgan." Maybe he didn't like the "By William Patrick Corgan", which doesn't give James credit for Mayo?

Registration Number: PAu-2-563-902
Title: Lover.
Description: 2 sound cassettes.
Claimant: Faust's Haus Music
Created: 1999
Registered: 15Dec00
Author on © Application: music & lyrics: William Corgan , 1967-.
Special Codes: 3/M

Registration Number: SRu-443-533
Title: The Smashing Pumpkins.
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: (c) acSmashing Pumpkins
Created: 1999
Registered: 29Jan01
Title on © Application: Lover.
Author on © Application: words & music: William Corgan , 1967-.
Special Codes: 3/M

hm... so, 3 cassettes?... I guess one of them could be the MAD that we have. Maybe the first thing was just Billy, and then the 2nd entry is for something recorded by the band.

Registration Number: PAu-2-571-960
Title: William Corgan demo.
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: Faust's Haus Music
Created: 2001
Registered: 13Aug01
Title on © Application: Isn't it?
Author on © Application: words & music: William Corgan , 1967-
Special Codes: 3/M

Registration Number: SRu-459-981
Title: Isn't it?
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: (c) on music, words; acWilliam Corgan , 1967-
Created: 2001
Registered: 13Aug01
Special Codes: 3/M

Registration Number: PAu-2-619-320
Title: Where nobody knows my name.
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: Faust's Haus Music
Created: 2001
Registered: 13Aug01
Author on © Application: words & music: William Corgan , 1967-.
Special Codes: 3/M

Registration Number: SRu-460-258
Title: Jesus won't you come?
Description: Sound cassette.
Note: Collection.
Claimant: (c) on words, music; acWilliam Corgan , 1967-
Created: 2001
Registered: 13Aug01
Special Codes: 3/M

Cool.

Registration Number: PAu-1-996-806
Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 1.
Description: Sound cassette.
Claimant: Cinderful Music
Created: 1988
Registered: 26Jun95
Author on © Application: words & music: William Patrick Corgan.
Special Codes: 3/M

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 2.
Created: 1989

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 3.
Created: 1990

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 4.
Created: 1991

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 5.
Created: 1992

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 6.
Created: 1993

Title: A collection of demos for Billy Corgan : demo no. 7.
Created: 1994


Okay, here we go... I think we've now discovered the true "holy grail". :) If this had been five tapes, then I would have said it's probably MP... but 7 tapes of demos, one from each year? And these don't mention the Pumpkins... maybe they're BC solo demos? I wouldn't doubt it. I imagine him in 1995, going through all his tapes from over the years, to copywrite all of his songs that didn't get copywrited with the band. You know, songs like Oui Henri and Worship.

Now I can go to sleep. :D

darcy666
01-15-2003, 09:51 AM
I'd definately go for the full Pistachio medley.

sarmatianus
01-15-2003, 01:41 PM
What we really need to do is get Lawrence Lessig to destroy the copyright laws. The sooner those things go public domain, the sooner they can legally be listened to.

thbifeb
01-15-2003, 03:30 PM
I usually don't post a lot, but I have an interest now. My heart has been pumping a little quicker lately knowing I will be seeing Zwan play on Sunday (thanks to a good friend). Seeing them on Sunday, and hopefully Monday, will mark the 12th straight year I have seen Billy perform live in person. I guess I am getting a little nostalgic, and reading this post makes me think of a lot things.

I like what a lot of people have put, and all would be great to have. I am not disbuting anything. I would love everything, but I really like video stuff. So, the 25 songs O'pumpkins would be great. Also, if you watch clips in Viewphoria, there are a lot of video shots from the 1988-1990 time period. Somewhere, someone has copies of those entire videos. I remember Dave A. saying he knew of a guy who has about 5 or 6 shows on video from 1989-1990 period. Wow, how about those.

What about a complete video of the Pulse Cable Access show? I still don't know all the songs played there?

Or, what about the following.

1988 - Billy's father's home studio

My Dahlia (Break)
There It Goes
Under Your Spell
Armed to the Teeth
Screaming
Sun
Holiday
I Fall

About 12 songs were recorded by Billy and James, using a drum machine. My Dahlia was at this time titled Break; Sun was called Death of a Mind and featured an alternate chorus.
(Taken from Jesse Miller's recording sessions)

Now I am assuming There It Goes and Under Your Spell on MP are from these sessions, but what about getting these other songs.

Or, from individual songs, what about Adore version of Let Me Give The World To You or a studio version of She (drool).

I am sure I left something out, there is just so much Billy has created and provided us.

There are a bunch of things, many of which I believe none of us even know about. I believe Billy has things even he forgot about, and that only he knows about.

Anyway, I am in my glory to have MP, as hopefully we all are.

Some people have brought some great things to my attention, hopefully I brought a few others to people's attention.

We can argue and discuss what could/would/should be the "next holy grail", but in the big picture, it really doesn't matter. It is just something fun to think and dream about getting or hearing.
Can you remember how you felt the first time you heard She from RTS, then how you felt when Billy abandoned it. Or the first time you heard Jackboot on Gravity Demos. It was all so great. So many memories and feelings. Either way, we are so lucky to have a proliphic singer/songwriter as Billy Corgan. If he never releases another thing, I feel so fortunate to be able to listen to what he has provided us. Don't ever take for granted what we all have, regardless if it is a common recording of something like 8/14/93 or 1/8/97, or something that at the time was new and fresh like RTS, Gravity Demos, or 10/5/88. Sure, there are things out there we all want like the Pulse Cable Access show, the pyscho video, the Hideout shows, Avalon, Adore tour rehearsal tapes, 88 demos, etc. This is all fun to talk about, but I will be happy, satisfied, and thankful even if nothing ever again gets released (officially or unofficially).

Sorry for the ranting, but the idea of Zwan's new album and shows at the Metro get me really excited, like a kid in a candy story. Like the first time I heard I ever heard SP.

Brian

Axis of Action
01-15-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
What we really need to do is get Lawrence Lessig to destroy the copyright laws. The sooner those things go public domain, the sooner they can legally be listened to.

Yeah, well, if BC doesn't touch the copyrights on that 7-tape demo fiesta (which I too agree should be the next holy grail... though it looks like we're kinda fucked on it) we only got 19 years before they become public domain. Can we just waltz in, listen & record them at that point? Cause hey, I'll only be 38 when that happens.

MstrGhost
01-15-2003, 06:41 PM
So... what about this? :p

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=pt&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&frame=right&th=95916dad93089f32&seekm=3acefc0f%40news.iprimus.com.au

Dead
01-15-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
Security procedures for the entire LoC campus of buildings, as well as penalties for violations are stringent enough to scare away, well, anyone with either or a brain or anything less than secret agent skills.
I bet you Monte could monte that shit. ;)

Dead
01-15-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Smiley
No, 25 Songs O' Pumpkins is also commonly known as the "Psycho" video. It has I'm Free, My Dahlia (rehearsal), Sun, Spiteface, Venus In Furs, Jennifer Ever, I Am One, Rhinoceros, There it Goes, She, My Eternity, Billy and Bob at Geraldo, all of 10/31/89, and some Marked stuff. *drools*

I guess I'm missing 4 of the songs in my little list there, to make the total of 25... can anybody tell me what's on there that I don't know about? :confused:
There are also some serial killer interviews, and a dancing gorilla. :eek:

http://members.rogers.com/deadster/leet.jpg

Dead
01-15-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
Or, what about the following.

1988 - Billy's father's home studio

My Dahlia (Break)
There It Goes
Under Your Spell
Armed to the Teeth
Screaming
Sun
Holiday
I Fall

About 12 songs were recorded by Billy and James, using a drum machine.

Now I am assuming There It Goes and Under Your Spell on MP are from these sessions, but what about getting these other songs.
I believe that My Dahlia on MP is from this session in addition to Under Your Spell. I don't know about There It Goes.

Brute Squad
01-15-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by MstrGhost
So... what about this? :p

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=pt&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&frame=right&th=95916dad93089f32&seekm=3acefc0f%40news.iprimus.com.au

It was found to be a troll.

sarmatianus
01-15-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Sehki


Yeah, well, if BC doesn't touch the copyrights on that 7-tape demo fiesta (which I too agree should be the next holy grail... though it looks like we're kinda fucked on it) we only got 19 years before they become public domain. Can we just waltz in, listen & record them at that point? Cause hey, I'll only be 38 when that happens.

No...with current copyright US standards, we'd have to wait until 70 years after Billy dies. As you can see, the likelihood of anyone here surviving that (even if he were to die today) is slim to none. And even if you did, would you still care?

Now, if it was a copyright registered in Europe, then it'd be 50 years from registration, death or not. But being as these tapes are probably sitting in a warehouse somewhere in Northern Virginia, I wouldn't hold my hopes up. Plus, even if they had proper equipment to play cassettes by then, don't you think they'd be in terrible condition regardless?

Sorry to be a pessimist about this, but either copyright laws are gonna have to change, or someone's gonna have to be charitable, otherwise we're not going to hear these. It'll be a rock history graduate student 100 years from now who'll be the first to get to hear these, given the current conditions.

Smiley
01-15-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Dead

There are also some serial killer interviews, and a dancing gorilla. :eek:

http://members.rogers.com/deadster/leet.jpg

a dancing gorilla? cool! and the two serial killer interviews are part of the segment of Billy and Bob at Geraldo, right?

but hey... that pic proves nothing! It could be from vieuphoria or full circle!! nobody believes you! So I guess you have no choice - you'll have to convert the whle thing to VCD and put it on the hub. ok?

Originally posted by sarmatianus
No...with current copyright US standards, we'd have to wait until 70 years after Billy dies.

So all I'd have to do is kill Billy Corgan and then wait until I'm 91? Sweet! If Netphoria is still around in 2073, I'll post a full review.

Dead
01-16-2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by Smiley
that pic proves nothing! It could be from vieuphoria or full circle!! nobody believes you! So I guess you have no choice - you'll have to convert the whle thing to VCD and put it on the hub. ok?
IF I had it, I wouldn't VCD it. I would DVD it! :rockon:

cid1992
01-16-2003, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
Can you remember how you felt the first time you heard She from RTS, then how you felt when Billy abandoned it.

It's funny you say this. I remember hearing RTS She and about pissed my pants. I couldn't believe it - ACOUSTIC SHE. And it sounded so good. Then...."She....awww fuck...ahhh...so hard to play this......let's just forget it". AHHHHHHHH. NOOOOOOO.

That's about how I felt right at that point. I still like hearing the whole what, minute fifteen or so of the song and it still blows my mind how good it sounds.

Oh well. Just my two cents.

Boycott Graceland
01-16-2003, 05:39 AM
the pro shot footage of the 1995 double door shows would be beautiful. uncut. all four.

let's see, they played ugly, speed, meladori magpie, set the ray to jerry, love, towers of rabble, stumbleine...

and christ, we don't even know the setlist for 2/20.

Halteh
01-16-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Smiley

but hey... that pic proves nothing! It could be from vieuphoria or full circle!! nobody believes you!

Woah, my tv is on the internet!! :eek:

Dead
01-16-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Halteh
Woah, my tv is on the internet!! :eek:
http://www.emotioneric.com/sassy.jpg

Smiley
01-16-2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Halteh
Woah, my tv is on the internet!! :eek:

heh... this just gave me an idea for a new topic here... "leet pic post". But I don't think I'll do it.

Dead
01-16-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Smiley
heh... this just gave me an idea for a new topic here... "leet pic post".
http://members.rogers.com/deadster/fbs.jpg

Smiley
01-16-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Dead

http://members.rogers.com/deadster/fbs.jpg

Please explain to me, is that 1991 video part of FBS? I REALLY didn't think it was. The 1992 one is "FBS 1" and the 1993 one is "FBS 2", so.... ?

youthinkyouknow
01-16-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Dead

http://members.rogers.com/deadster/fbs.jpg

you mean...


http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599892.jpg



http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599887.jpg

lament
01-17-2003, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by youthinkyouknow


you mean...


http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599892.jpg



http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599887.jpg



Why am I so lazy?

Brandont_h
01-17-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by youthinkyouknow


you mean...


[snip pictures]




Yeah, I'd say that's roughly what he's getting at. :)

-Brandon

Smiley
01-17-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by youthinkyouknow
[B]you mean...

hey are you that FruitBatSalad guy? ;)

Dead
01-17-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Smiley


Please explain to me, is that 1991 video part of FBS? I REALLY didn't think it was.
Its not, my leet hookup mislabelled it as part of FBS. But its still leet shit so I *******d it in my pic. LEET!

Dead
01-17-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by youthinkyouknow
you mean...

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599892.jpg

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL11/874296/1586369/18599887.jpg
Did I mention I'm buying a DVD burner?

http://www.emotioneric.com/exxcellent.jpg

Vanity Must Die
01-18-2003, 12:42 AM
Okay, well, seeing as I'm the only person (AFIAK) to actually come close to hearing this tape, I'll bring you guys up to speed. Here's what happened during the summer of 2001:

- I went to visit my aunt & uncle in D.C.
- told auntie about QaOS, intriguing her
- visit LoC's music recording dept, told it was impossible
- visit LoC's copyrite dept on a fluke, told it was totally possible, but cost about $150 to do.
- I asked how long I could listen to it (since the music dept only allows 2 times thru) and was told that the LoC opens at 8AM(?) and closes at 5PM(?) - basically for one day. I asked about where I would be listening to it, and they pointed at a shoddy old tapedeck in the corner, telling me to bring my own headphones.
- They said I could even take pictures of the tape and case, seeing as I would be handling the actual originals. I was told I could only take limited notes, though, because anything more would be potential copyrite infringement, and, of course, no copies.
- YAY!
- They order the tape to be shipped from wherever it was
- This was Tuesday, and they said it would be in on Thurs (rush shipment) - I had to leave on Friday
- Friday rolls around, no call, no go - money refunded - I go home

So, yeah, it's totally possible, and was going to happen.. but bad luck set in.

Anyone that lives in the area and has about $150 to blow should give it a shot - I don't think things have changed much in the past 2 years.

Oh, and from what I saw, there were no cameras in the room w/ the tapedeck

Well, back to the woodwork..

>Trent

P.S.
I'm not sure if I told the peoples in the copyrite office this, but I told the recordings people that I was doing research on the usefulness of the LoC, and wanted something that was not only unique to the Library, but would relate with 'kids today'.

Okay, no more schpeeling

the arms of sleep
01-18-2003, 02:52 AM
if all thats true about the "bring your own headphones stuff, you could totally boot it from the loc. wire yourself up with a dat taped to you somewhere. run an out into the tape deck and plug your headphones into the output of the dat. you would be plugging the output of the dat in just as you would headphones so no one would be expecting you to be doing anything shady. ive done stuff more stealthy than that at an actual show. doesnt sound that hard.

Smiley
01-18-2003, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by Vanity Must Die
Okay, well, seeing as I'm the only person (AFIAK) to actually come close to hearing this tape, I'll bring you guys up to speed. Here's what happened during the summer of 2001:

I remember your story. Somehow I didn't realize it was that expensive though... for some reason I always thought it was $60? I almost tried it myself when I went to see Zwan in DC, but I didn't have the money. I'm surprised nobody has really done it... but yeah, I guess $150 is a lot to pay just to listen to the tape for a day.

Originally posted by the arms of sleep
if all thats true about the "bring your own headphones stuff, you could totally boot it from the loc. wire yourself up with a dat taped to you somewhere. run an out into the tape deck and plug your headphones into the output of the dat. you would be plugging the output of the dat in just as you would headphones so no one would be expecting you to be doing anything shady. ive done stuff more stealthy than that at an actual show. doesnt sound that hard.

That's easy for us to say, but I'd really like to see someone do it. I'd be too concerned about the security. Even if it's just someone at a desk, I think they'd be smart enough to make sure the wire from the tape deck is going straight to your ears... not a wire going into your coat pocket, and then into your ears.

You say you've been more stealthy at a show, but I'd imagine the show wasn't a place where you were the only person there, sitting at a table right next to a bunch of people who work for the <i>US copywrite office</i>. Maybe if they let a few hundred people in and dimmed the lights, then it would be like a show and someone could get away with it.

lament
01-18-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Smiley

You say you've been more stealthy at a show, but I'd imagine the show wasn't a place where you were the only person there, sitting at a table right next to a bunch of people who work for the <i>US copywrite office</i>. Maybe if they let a few hundred people in and dimmed the lights, then it would be like a show and someone could get away with it.

Plus, I'd imagine if it was done...knowing the only copy is at the copywrite office....they'd be able to easily track where the leak came from, given that your name is all over the request form to 'listen' to it.

Smiley
01-18-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by lament
Plus, I'd imagine if it was done...knowing the only copy is at the copywrite office....they'd be able to easily track where the leak came from, given that your name is all over the request form to 'listen' to it.

Yeah, I was thinking that too, but I don't think they'd be able to prosecute you based on just that... there would always be the possibility that it could have leaked out from a copy that BC didn't put in the LOC.

Smiley
01-18-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Vanity Must Die
I asked about where I would be listening to it, and they pointed at a shoddy old tapedeck in the corner, telling me to bring my own headphones.
- They said I could even take pictures of the tape and case, seeing as I would be handling the actual originals.

Now that I think about it, this sounds like a pretty lame system they have set up. What's to stop someone from going in and "accidently" demagnetizing the tape (or taping over it, if the tapedeck has a record button).

If someone wanted to record Weeping Willowly for their own album, does that mean they could just go to the LOC, listen to whatever tape Billy has it on, and ruin the tape? That would null the copywrite, wouldn't it? I mean the name would still be copywrited, but there'd be no music left to prove that it was originally a BC song.

Just food for thought.

Apart
01-18-2003, 08:34 PM
the logic of most of this:

"why should i bother trading for all of the stuff that is avaliable and that i dont have, when instead i can waste my time going on about everything that probably wont leak anytime soon and is stuck up some supposed "l337" losers ass?"


and isint it such a pity that everyone who had FBS & etc. before and thought they were little bad-asses with it can no longer call themselves "l337" to get off. such a shame.

Dead
01-19-2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by Apart
isint it such a pity that everyone who had FBS & etc. before and thought they were little bad-asses with it can no longer call themselves "l337" to get off. such a shame.
You idiot, who do you think ends up leaking all the leet shit?? Its usually the bad-asses!

http://www.emotioneric.com/intrigue.jpg

Smiley
01-19-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Apart
the logic of most of this:

"why should i bother trading for all of the stuff that is avaliable and that i dont have, when instead i can waste my time going on about everything that probably wont leak anytime soon and is stuck up some supposed "l337" losers ass?"

I think you've got it wrong. Most of the traders in this topic probably ARE busy trading for all the common stuff that they don't have. I know I am. But in the meantime, what's the harm in talking about the stuff that <i>isn't</i> commonly available? When I found out the "25 Songs O' Pumpkins" info, for example (thanks to Fares, I believe, who posted in here in response to my question about it a while back), I just thought it was cool to find out that it means the Pumpkins played Jennifer Ever live. We didn't have proof of that before, and I think it's cool to know. Similarly, I'd like to know the setlist to 2/20/95, just because I find it interesting. Does that mean I'm "wasting my time", as you say? Maybe you just don't find the SP tour history as interesting as we do. And that's fine... but there's no reason for you to get upset just because we're talking about this stuff. Go read the non-SP forum or something.

Originally posted by Apart
and isint it such a pity that everyone who had FBS & etc. before and thought they were little bad-asses with it can no longer call themselves "l337" to get off. such a shame.

I don't know... I don't see all that much gloating going on in the SP community. Maybe I'm just not as jealous as you, so I see things differently. I see a community that is very generous... look at the recent spreading of MP, and all the B+P's that were done. I also agree with Dead... the bad-asses (i.e. the ones that you're jealous of) are the ones who usually wind up spreading this stuff. When things <i>don't</i> get leaked, it's usually because of promises that were made... and that doesn't bother me.

MstrGhost
01-19-2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Andrew Fogelsong


It was found to be a troll.

:cry: That means I'll never listen to a demo of bodies :(

Apart
01-21-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Dead

i'm a huge idiot.

http://www.emotioneric.com/intrigue.jpg

we know.

Apart
01-21-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Smiley


you're wrong. and you're jealous. jealous jealous jealous.


ok then, since you put it that way....

apparently the truth isint welcome. so be it.
also apparently, is the fact that someone who has more 'nft' shit than most others on this board can still be "jealous" of traders.

funny ways of thinking you have...

sarmatianus
10-11-2003, 11:04 AM
Nine months later, we have the following:

FBS
12/2/00
1988 - Billy's father's home studio

Not bad. Not bad at all. :D

What is most likely to leak next/soon?

cherrimoya
10-11-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
1988 - Billy's father's home studio


Uhh, we do? Besides "I fall"?

Dead
10-12-2003, 12:49 AM
I don't think FBS needed to be leaked, it was just in low circulation. It was on lots of bootlists, wasn't it?

Dead
10-12-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by cherrimoya
Uhh, we do? Besides "I fall"?
There It Goes and Under Your Spell on MP are from there but he wouldn't have meant those I guess. Yeah, uhh we do?

sarmatianus
10-12-2003, 01:04 AM
Sorry, I could've sworn I saw at least parts of it on the Hub. And isn't NEC also part of it? I dunno - maybe I'm just getting senile in my old age...in any case, back to the question!

Dead
10-12-2003, 01:37 AM
I heard from a reliable source that the next pumpkins leak will be Mashed Potatoes II: Revenge Of The Yams.

sarasvati
10-12-2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Dead
I heard from a reliable source that the next pumpkins leak will be Mashed Potatoes II: Revenge Of The Yams.

omg, you guys better not!!! b0lly's gonna be pissed! and then we'll never get anything evar again!! nooooooo

Mr MacPhisto
10-12-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by sarasvati


omg, you guys better not!!! b0lly's gonna be pissed! and then we'll never get anything evar again!! nooooooo


that made me laugh, but not because it was funny.

ZephZero33
10-12-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto



that made me laugh, but not because it was funny.


were you laughing because it is true?

Dead
10-12-2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto
that made me laugh, but not because it was funny.
http://www.emotioneric.com/hamsterpants.jpg

Mr MacPhisto
10-12-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Dead




sean, i hope to see you at the radiohead show on wednesday ;)

Dead
10-12-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto
sean, i hope to see you at the radiohead show on wednesday ;)
Yeah, even if I was there you wouldn't say hi to me. :(

Dan Elsen
10-13-2003, 10:55 AM
Someone mentioned pro shot footage from the Arising Tour earlier in this post. Just because I don't see it on lists often, I did want to mention that I have the first 3 or 4 songs from what I believe is 4/10/99 on VCD. Are those fairly common, or am I holding sumpthin' special?

Oh, and I'm pissed that this thread exists. Now I'm forced to sit here for hours picking my brain to decide which recording I would want to leak the most. I'd love to hear them all, it's just impossible to decide. I've had the pro shot Double Door footage in the front of my mind since I first saw the Rockumentary when it aired, so I might choose that.
But if I had to choose one thing to surface, it would be a show that was most likely not recorded: 8/27/94 second stage performance. Best fucking setlist ever, and my friend was there - bastard!!! :mad:

zerozwan
10-13-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Dan Elsen
Just because I don't see it on lists often, I did want to mention that I have the first 3 or 4 songs from what I believe is 4/10/99 on VCD. Are those fairly common, or am I holding sumpthin' special?
how much would you be willing to sell these for?

Richard D. James
10-13-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Dead

There It Goes and Under Your Spell on MP are from there but he wouldn't have meant those I guess...

TBYW....

Dan Elsen
10-13-2003, 11:58 AM
Well I would call it an "it" cause it's only one disc, but under no conditions would I ever sell a bootleg, or do an SHN trade. Snail mail only.

Anywho, I'd still like to know if it's rare. Oh, and while I'm at it, how rare are these:
8/7/93 ANA-M>CDR-1
10/6/93 ANA-M>CDR-1
10/19/93 DAT-?>CDR
12/9/93 ANA-M>CDR-1

Thanks,
Dan

cherrimoya
10-13-2003, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by Dan Elsen
Well I would call it an "it" cause it's only one disc, but under no conditions would I ever sell a bootleg, or do an SHN trade. Snail mail only.

Anywho, I'd still like to know if it's rare. Oh, and while I'm at it, how rare are these:
Thanks,
Dan

They were webcast on the old site, and not at all rare, is the answer you're looking for.

Brute Squad
10-13-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Dan Elsen
Oh, and while I'm at it, how rare are these:
8/7/93 ANA-M>CDR-1
10/6/93 ANA-M>CDR-1
10/19/93 DAT-?>CDR
12/9/93 ANA-M>CDR-1


I have 8/7/93, anaM>DAT>CDR1 actually. Don't have 10/6/93 in any form. I swear I've seen a DAT copy of 10/19/93 somewhere, probably something I wasn't able to get. I have 12/9/93, ANA2>CDR, and found a guy with a DAT copy(SS>D3), wasn't able to get it from him though.

GRSuperChris
01-05-2007, 06:41 PM
I'd slaughter ten men (brutally) in perfect health for a copy of Suicide Kiss. Geek U.S.A. has to be one of my top 10 favorite Pumpkins songs, and obviously Suicide Kiss is the holy grail in reference to that.

:D

You don't have that? Hmm

I Have started coming across rare stuff here and there. I want to find others.

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 07:06 PM
dude this thread is over three years old. good thing you bumped it!

Yeh! God if only we had the Avalon show and the psycho tape!

Fonzie
01-05-2007, 07:10 PM
nice bump, however. I love going through all this old stuff.

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 07:29 PM
i have never heard of this physco tape. is it rare?

So I made a typo pincer me or whatever.

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 07:37 PM
Ah, okay... I was just figuring based on desireability, regardless of the difficulty of obtaining it.



Well I said Arising Tour, and I hardly consider that to be Adore era. :p The difference, of course, is that there are already tons of pro-shot Adore shows. But you're right, most traders don't give a damn about videos. Then again, I was posting what <i>I</i> would personally want the most... not what most traders would want. :p



Yeah, I guess you're right. I'd kill for that Suicide Kiss recording!



No, 25 Songs O' Pumpkins is also commonly known as the "Psycho" video. It has I'm Free, My Dahlia (rehearsal), Sun, Spiteface, Venus In Furs, Jennifer Ever, I Am One, Rhinoceros, There it Goes, She, My Eternity, Billy and Bob at Geraldo, all of 10/31/89, and some Marked stuff. *drools*

I guess I'm missing 4 of the songs in my little list there, to make the total of 25... can anybody tell me what's on there that I don't know about? :confused:

Whatever like you didn't know rocklobster

Verboten
01-05-2007, 10:13 PM
I have 8/7/93, anaM>DAT>CDR1 actually. Don't have 10/6/93 in any form. I swear I've seen a DAT copy of 10/19/93 somewhere, probably something I wasn't able to get. I have 12/9/93, ANA2>CDR, and found a guy with a DAT copy(SS>D3), wasn't able to get it from him though.


i believe that pattycakes asshole(and i can't stress the term "asshole" enough, it's one thing to hoard, it's another to publicly brag about it constantly) had a full copy of 10.19.93. the only list i ever saw it on from what i remember.

i had to a pull a pretty-odd trick to get 3.9.96 out of him.

Verboten
01-05-2007, 10:14 PM
and this all reminds me, when is that damn arising tour video going to leak out? several people have it but nobody seems to care anymore. let's start caring, and sharing :)

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 10:16 PM
i had to a pull a pretty-odd trick to get 3.9.96 out of him.

Blow job?

do you mean the 3 arising pro shot songs or the full gig?

Verboten
01-05-2007, 10:19 PM
Blow job?

do you mean the 3 arising pro shot songs or the full gig?


nah, wouldn't that be lovely story?
the guy used to be so cool too. actually had a couple legit trades with him long long ago. something happened and then wham: 100% attitude adjustment.

and i meant the full gig. san diego i believe.

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 10:22 PM
nah, wouldn't that be lovely story?
the guy used to be so cool too. actually had a couple legit trades with him long long ago. something happened and then wham: 100% attitude adjustment.

and i meant the full gig. san diego i believe.

answer=no there's just the 3 songs! That reminds me about doing the black sessions promo copy! Sorry coolasicecream!!!

redbull
01-05-2007, 10:53 PM
the full san diego show does exist, fyi. just the three songs from detroit, though.

Smashing Turnip
01-05-2007, 11:05 PM
the full san diego show does exist, fyi. just the three songs from detroit, though.

yeh I just meant it isn't circulating.

Syco54645
01-06-2007, 12:56 AM
bump

Brute Squad
01-06-2007, 04:25 AM
yeh I just meant it isn't circulating.

Yes, the one Ben Golomb taped. 4/24/99 wasn't circulating for a long time, a few years IIRC, and it got out. Time will tell.

redbull
01-06-2007, 02:27 PM
btw 10/19/93 DAT-?>CDR is still leet, if its the complete show

Sebastian
01-06-2007, 05:51 PM
I still want that Viper Room video...

Effloresce
01-06-2007, 09:14 PM
Wow, look at all that Siamese stuff :o

What's "Tulips"? Is it a song we have never heard, or did they end up calling it something else?

redbreegull
01-07-2007, 05:04 AM
The guy who went to LOC and listened to QAOS said Tulips was not at all related to any released or known song.

Cool As Ice Cream
01-07-2007, 01:51 PM
That reminds me about doing the black sessions promo copy! Sorry coolasicecream!!!
Yeah. I was about to contact you about this.

DeadOpera
01-08-2007, 02:18 PM
no seriously, what is the psycho tape?
don't answer unless you love weiner!
LoL

Brewer
01-08-2007, 07:12 PM
answer=no there's just the 3 songs! That reminds me about doing the black sessions promo copy! Sorry coolasicecream!!!

You've got that one?