I recently bought a copy of the Drown promo cd on eBay. At first I was very happy with it, although I had some remarks. I was planning to ask you guys about those sometime later maybe, and carried on with my life.

But today I took another close look at my copy and compared it with the pictures on the website of collectspumpkins (http://www.geocities.com/collectspumpkins/). And I noticed my cd is not identical to the cd pictured there. Adding this to my initial remarks was making me worried.

Pictures of collectspumpkins: cd and front (http://www.geocities.com/collectspumpkins/CompactDiscs/drown1.jpg) - back (http://www.geocities.com/collectspumpkins/CompactDiscs/drown2.jpg)

My scans:
http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_frontb.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_cd1b.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_cd2b.jpg
http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_backb.jpg
Higher quality scans: front (http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_front.jpg) - cd picture 1 (http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_cd1.jpg) - cd picture 2 (http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_cd2.jpg) - back (http://users.telenet.be/crush/drown/drown_back.jpg)

The purple and yellow stripes in the artwork aren't actually purple and yellow. That's just my scanner reaction to the very small "unsmoothness" of the inserts.

My initial remarks:
* The small white letters in the bottom righ corner on the front aren't readable.
* The movie info ("warner bros presents an atkinson/knickerbocker films production a cameron crowe film...") isn't sharp and in some places lighter and unreadable.
* The text under the movie info ("smashing pumpkins appear courtesy...") is not sharp.

The above three remarks made me think of a low quality photocopy/xerox (or how do you call it in english?). But then I thought that's not really that weird since this is just a promo. I've seen worse. Nevertheless the minor crappiness surprised me and that's never a good sign.

Other remarks:
* The side of the cd case says "epic soundtrax" while the cd says "epic soundtrack" and spfc.org (http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/discog.html?discog_id=35) says "epic records". The back has an epic logo and says "epic soundtrax" too.
* The big yellow and black letters on the cd are faulty. The black isn't correctly aligned with the yellow and it's making the letters look weird, especially the Ms and the Ns.

Today I noticed how the cd looks different than the one on collectspumpkins' site.

And while scanning the back insert I noticed how it looks like it's perforated on the line where the paper is bended (to provide the sides of the cd case with info), but it actually isn't perforated at all! All the previous remarks could easily be explained, but this one is a heavy one, in my opinion. I can't think of any other explanation than "bootleg". :(

So, before I start making plans to torture and kill the seller, I'd like to get some info from the other people on here who own a copy of this promo or know something about it.

How does your copy look? Compared to the one on collectspumpkins' site? Compared to my copy (see long description + high quality scans)?

* How does the cd look? What does it say?
* Can you read the small white letters on the front?
* Does the text on the back look not sharp in some places?
* Is the paper used for the inserts smooth and glossy?
* ...

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream


Other remarks:
* The side of the cd case says "epic soundtrax" while the cd says "epic soundtrack" and



ummm...i don't know anything about this kind of stuff. but that sounds like a major red flag to me. but hey, maybe there are two versions of the demo :erm

and yeah it's photocopy. or xerox. xerox is a brand of photocopiers but it is sometimes used as a generic term. that is all.

ok i had a good look at mine just now. it's the same as the one on shawns site.

the paper is glossy and fairly rigid, not very floppy like normal writing paper.

the perforations are real

the cd looks like shawns

it says epic soundtrax in every place where it's written.

the small white letters on the front cover still aren't readable

on the back everything is in focus, no blurring and it doesn't get light.

the only thing on the back cover is some of the very small letters in the credits aren't too readable e.g. where it says 'music by' between matt dillon and paul westerburg

i'm totally sure mine is genuine, i'd say yours is a fake but until now i've never heard of it being bootlegged

Originally posted by Junebug



ummm...i don't know anything about this kind of stuff. but that sounds like a major red flag to me. but hey, maybe there are two versions of the demo :erm

and yeah it's photocopy. or xerox. xerox is a brand of photocopiers but it is sometimes used as a generic term. that is all.

i'm sure there is a printing error something similar on the spine of msots, these things do get through sometimes. but that cd looks fake as shit

Originally posted by Junebug
maybe there are two versions of the demo i've seen two different versions of "en concierto en mexico" and both claimed to be the real thing. i'm not sure if that was true, but if it was and there can be two different versions of such a rare promo, there surely can be two different versions of the drown promo.

although the bootleg theory is more acceptable. especially for that mexican promo.

wait, i'll have a pic saved from that mexico thing:
<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1903917">

here's the other one:
http://www.geocities.com/collectspumpkins/CompactDiscs/adorelivemexicoprocd.jpg

I can check mine when I get home, but mine sounds the same as Shawn's.

is it supposed to say "Demostration"

if the printing was sharp and the design on the cd itself didn't look so suspect then i could believe there are two versions. in this case i think it's a fake though

Originally posted by tcm
is it supposed to say "Demostration"

lol

i didn't notice that!

the other guy i'm building the site with has en concierto but i don't. i'll check which design he has. it seems a little weird that the top one has the hut logo on...

Originally posted by tcm
is it supposed to say "Demostration" aw crap, i've been had. :(

ok, kids, goodbye. i'm going on a crusade.

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
aw crap, i've been had. :(

ok, kids, goodbye. i'm going on a crusade.

your english is really coming along!

good luck with the seller, just remember they could have bought it in good faith, they weren't necessarily trying to con you.

Originally posted by dean moriaty
it seems a little weird that the top one has the hut logo on... indeed!
Originally posted by dean moriaty
i'd say yours is a fake but until now i've never heard of it being bootlegged
you've ever heard of "en concierto" being bootlegged before?

the only bootlegged sp item i can think of right now is the original earphoria promo. i've seen all sorts of them and thanks to the pictures on collectspumpkins' site i've never bought one of those. because some look so good and real. but they aren't.

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream

you've ever heard of "en concierto" being bootlegged before?

the only bootlegged sp item i can think of right now is the original earphoria promo. i've seen all sorts of them and thanks to the pictures on collectspumpkins' site i've never bought one of those. because some look so good and real. but they aren't.

i haven't seen a bootleg en concierto but i wouldn't be at all suprised if there were bootlegs. in fact i'd be a little suprised it it hadn't been bootlegged!

i have a real original earphoria promo. i checked the matrix number before i got it. you're right there are some pretty good fakes of that out there

anyone can give me any hints how to handle this?

is there anything i can do if the seller refuses to work along? i've searched on the ebay website, but i didn't find anything.

Not sure what you can do besides report it to eBay.

Originally posted by Dead
Not sure what you can do besides report it to eBay. Wow, that'll make me feel a lot better. :(

When I've had problems in the past Paypal was super unhelpful but you didn't use Paypal.. and I've never actually filed a complaint with eBay. They're supposed to help you but I don't know how good they are about that.

well, i haven't contacted the seller yet, so there's still a small chance everything will work out ok just like that. although i rather doubt it. and if it doesn't, i'm busted, it's really that simple. i could file a complaint with ebay, but i don't think that will give me my money back. the seller will just disappear and start all over again with another username.

anyway, DEAD, i was wanting to ask you a question and i don't feel like making a new thread about it: what is the name of the program/service you used to snipe on ebay? i'm interested and i remember you mentioned how good it works some time ago, but i forgot the name.

yeah just contact the seller. i could answer the other question but i'll let sean do it :)

This is the site, and if you use this link and then register I get 3 free snipes! Oh yeah on this site they give you 3 free and then you pay some small amount for additional ones. It's always worked awesomely for me.

<a href="http://www.auctionsniper.com/?how=seanbowen@sympatico.ca">Link</a>

Thanks. I registered through your link.

What's the best value for "delay"? My first thought would be 1 second. Or is that not without risk?

I do 8 I think just to be safe. Maybe 5.

Mine is set to 5 which I've used before and I've also used 8. Never had a problem. You will win as long as you're the top bidder cause nobody has a chance to adjust their max :cool:

did you contact the seller? what did they say?

Originally posted by dean moriaty
did you contact the seller? what did they say? he's playing the game of not being around.

which is weird, because when i won the item, he sent me a mail every day. "you won, please pay", "did you get my mail", "did you choose a way to pay me", "did you pay". once he got the money, the flood of mails suddenly stopped.

Originally posted by Dead
You will win as long as you're the top bidder cause nobody has a chance to adjust their max :cool: I just tried it and it's the most awesome invention since ice cream on a stick. Works just lovely.

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
he's playing the game of not being around.

which is weird, because when i won the item, he sent me a mail every day. "you won, please pay", "did you get my mail", "did you choose a way to pay me", "did you pay". once he got the money, the flood of mails suddenly stopped.

bummer

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
i've seen two different versions of "en concierto en mexico" and both claimed to be the real thing. i'm not sure if that was true, but if it was and there can be two different versions of such a rare promo, there surely can be two different versions of the drown promo.

although the bootleg theory is more acceptable. especially for that mexican promo.

wait, i'll have a pic saved from that mexico thing:
<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=1903917">

here's the other one:
http://www.geocities.com/collectspumpkins/CompactDiscs/adorelivemexicoprocd.jpg

yeah, the first one is mine, the other one is from the shawn's site. shawn claimed his is genuine and i got mine directly from the mexican guy who dug it from some old audio archive in the radio station he used to work with and gave it to me (he got it directly from the recording company so i'm sure mine has to be genuine as well). so, it's weird that they would press two different inlays of a promo limited to, like, 30 copies... but it indicates that misspellings may be just different versions of the drown promo.

i'd be worried about the lack of perforations though...

are you sure the guy you got it from wasn't a fraud?

well, you can never be 100% sure, really, but the guy was Mexican, he worked in this radio station and he didn't have (or at least seemed not to have had) the vaguest idea how rare is this CD... so I'm sure he was honest and the cd is a real thing. Plus it's numbered.

besides, good as the xerox copies can be today, my inlay by no means looks like a printout or xero


don't worry, ebay is full of arseholes these days, i can tell you :(

if that cheers you up, i once lost over $100 US for a supposedly genuine Smashing Pumpkins demo tape. but i won't tell the whole story 'cause to reveal it would make me a dumb idiot.

i want to hear the story!

you don't. believe me. just imagine the most stupid way of losing a hundred $ on eBay. that's what I did.

Originally posted by sweter33
you don't. believe me. just imagine the most stupid way of losing a hundred $ on eBay. that's what I did.

just tell me!

that happened long time ago and i was young and stupid.

there was this auction: 'tsp' demo tape (could be the real thing, went for like $300). i asked the guy if he would end the auction if i paid him whatever amount... he said 'no sorry i cannot but don't worry, for i have LOTS OF THEM!!! and i can sell them outside ebay. just mail me a hundred dollar bill' (obviously i didn't know whether that was a reasonable price or not)
now guess: did he mail me back the tape?
or even better: did he have lots of 'tsp' demo tapes? :erm

yeah these were the times when i believed in honesty... :unhappy:

thanks for sharing.

i only got ripped off on ebay once buying pumpkins stuff on ebay. some canadian woman...

Originally posted by dean moriaty
thanks for sharing.

i only got ripped off on ebay once buying pumpkins stuff on ebay. some canadian woman...

Dead?

Originally posted by Fonzie


Dead?

she seemed really nice by e.mail, she had a canadian version of the teitbite single with a different catalog number and stuff (she didn't know this, i asked lots of questions). i sent the money and i never got it. i haven't seen another copy of that cd since :(

i wonder if it was spring?!!!??!?!?!

Originally posted by dean moriaty
did you contact the seller? what did they say? i contacted the seller for a second time, mentioning that if he would keep ignoring my mails, i was going to have to believe he was a fraud and that i would take the "necessary steps". he replied immediately.

his english sucked and i'm not going to quote him, but i think he tried to say he thought the cd was real. i explained why it wasn't and once again he reacted in some pseudo english, saying something like "other country release".

at that time i found he had played mister mac ignorance ignoramus long enough and i sent him an ultimatum. refund or i'll report you to ebay and warn all your buyers. i played it kinda tricky. although i'm convinced this is a complete ebay fraud, constantly ripping people off, i did leave him some space to act like an honest man. and he fell for it.

within 15 minutes he replied he agreed with the refund. now all i have to do is wait for the refund to arrive. he'll send it through the mail. in the end i will have lost some money on shipping and on that godame western union money transfer, but hey... :)

Good work man!!!

I am going through similar bullshit with a guy who who had 22 positive feedbacks and a 100% rating at the time I purchased 2 DVDs from him. Well, after payment was sent...and after him telling my the item had shipped....all of a sudden he unregisters from eBay.

I was imediately suspicious, but figured it would have to be a fairly elaborate ripoff attempt if he completed 22 transaction in good faith before unregistering.

Anyway, I received constant communication during the transaction process, but nothing after he said the items were shipped. At this point I sent a mildly threatening email, because I have an uncle that lives near this guy....and I have his address.

I feel my hands are tied, becuase the eBay threats won't make any difference to him...since he has unregistered. I will still report to eBay though, since the transaction was completed through them.

that's good news coolas

Originally posted by davin
I am going through similar bullshit with a guy who who had 22 positive feedbacks and a 100% rating at the time I purchased 2 DVDs from him. Well, after payment was sent...and after him telling my the item had shipped....all of a sudden he unregisters from eBay.
... That happened twice here. The items did arrive though.

In one of the cases I could contact the seller and he didn't unregister, apparently eBay had his account suspended or whatever, for selling a cd-r.

So it's not always what you think it is. And sometimes mail goes slow.

Originally posted by dean moriaty
that's good news coolas It gets weird now though. The seller is asking his cd back. :erm

Doesn't he know it's a fake?

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
It gets weird now though. The seller is asking his cd back. :erm

Doesn't he know it's a fake?

just send it.

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
That happened twice here. The items did arrive though.

In one of the cases I could contact the seller and he didn't unregister, apparently eBay had his account suspended or whatever, for selling a cd-r.

So it's not always what you think it is. And sometimes mail goes slow.

Thanks. He finally replied yesterday and said his computer crashed. He is re-sending the items, because they were only 5 days away and it has been a month.

TAFH font (I think, on "Drown") in '92?

Originally posted by Thoughtless
TAFH font (I think, on "Drown") in '92? That's how it looks.

It's not the same font as of TAFH. And even if it would be, that wouldn't mean something necessarily.