So Afghanistan can pledge $100k to hurricane relief, but all France, Germany and SPain can offer are some shitty fucking cots? You know full well would a disaster have hit France, the US would be the first country to offer help and the biggest contributor. Even political rivals like Venezuela are helping.

So once again, fuck France. I hear Kohler is on his way out in Germany anyway. And Spain can eat a big fat dick.

oh come on. venezuala is using its offer of help as an insult not as a serious gesture of friendship, and thats why it was turned down. spain, germany, and france did a lot more than send cots (i know you didnt mean it literally) and i think youre really selling them short or are misinformed or something. and what are you thinking mentioning afghanistan? it might be a good idea to list countries that arent still US protectorates if youre trying to designate which countries are worthy of generosity points


and what does kholer have to do with anything? hes basically a monarch and is irrelevant from what i understand. i think you meant schroeder. he kinda is on the way out, yes

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-02-katrinaworldhelps_x.htm
France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said.


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1701824,00.html
Over the past weekend, Germany sent two planes loaded with 25 tons of food rations to a US Air Force base in Florida for further distribution to the Gulf Coast states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Another flight carrying 15 tons is scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday

and finally, the only detailed list (that I could find) of aid from Spain:
http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/09/07/62447.html
Spain prepared Wednesday to ship 16 metric tons of humanitarian aid, including 6,000 rations of food, tents and blankets to the United States to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.


Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like alot more than just a few "shitty fucking cots".

why not just use wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

tada

but here we have the deadly duo of american chauvinism: france bashing and bellicose "you owe us" pride about the giving of "aid". i put aid in quotes because its as wild a misnomer as ever 90% of the time. the former is still the ugliest of all and is the veritable mating call of the slackjawed, violent jingoist. it beyond childish

I'm guessing Nimmy doesn't like the facts.

Originally posted by wally
I'm guessing Nimmy doesn't like the facts. Obviously "cots" was a euphamism. Can you honestly say that if France or Spain had a national disaster of this magnitude that the US wouldn't do at minimum 10 times more for them?

Yes, I did mean Schroeder.

well if france was the richest, most powerful country in the world then we could talk. these things arent entirely equal, theyre relative

Originally posted by sleeper
well if france was the richest, most powerful country in the world then we could talk. these things arent entirely equal, theyre relative
so then you're saying France is making more than a token gesture here?

im cynical about the whole aid thing, so i think, yes, its a basically a token gesture -- but no more so than any other countrys token gesture though. and, really, it isnt that bad of a one either. youre really underselling it. what were you expecting exactly? some monumental outpouring? no country is really going beyond the moderate, and for good reason. the US really can handle itself (or can it) and this aid is more just petty assistance than the crucial satisfaction of some urgent necessity. this is why the US is urging donor nations to pony up "cash dollars" as opposed to equipment or whatever

Originally posted by sleeper
im cynical about the whole aid thing, so i think, yes, its a basically a token gesture -- but no more so than any other countrys token gesture though. and, really, it isnt that bad of a one either. youre really underselling it. what were you expecting exactly? some monumental outpouring? no country is really going beyond the moderate, and for good reason. the US really can handle itself (or can it) and this aid is more just petty assistance than the crucial satisfaction of some urgent necessity. this is why the US is urging donor nations to pony up "cash dollars" as opposed to equipment or whatever
Cash dollars are needed because we have enough cots and blankets and whatnot

That doesn't help to rebuild three states

i would stop saying "need" altogether

Maybe someone should tell George not to send all your shit overseas to war. I've heard that often helps.

Just a suggestion.

Originally posted by talk show host
Maybe someone should tell George not to send all your shit overseas to war. I've heard that often helps.

Just a suggestion. how about we don't send money to tsunami victims or tell Africa that the $15 billion dollars we promised for AIDS (a wholly preventable disease) isn't coming?

Originally posted by talk show host
Maybe someone should tell George not to send all your shit overseas to war. I've heard that often helps.

Just a suggestion.
Yes. Lets punish the people of Louisiana for the sake of international politics. That'll teach 'em.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
how about we don't send money to tsunami victims or tell Africa that the $15 billion dollars we promised for AIDS (a wholly preventable disease) isn't coming?

Somehow I expect more from the most powerful nation in the world then from long devastated countries with unstable governments. I hope you'll forgive me.


Edit: actually, I should probably expand on that a bit.

a) I'm not disputing that people should send aid, and if you think that you're a moron. I wholeheartedly support all the countries that are giving money to the US to help all those people. Anything that helps them at this point is fantastic, because they really fuckin need it from what I've heard.

b) The war in Iraq has diverted much needed resources for something that has now been proven for some time to be a complete load of shit.

c) I'd say what I said to any government which is wasting resources and lives at the expense of its own people, especially for such false and selfish reasons as the US's reasons for war in Iraq.

d) As far as I can tell a lot of countries have offered aid to the US, so having a crack at those European countries seems a bit rich, but I could be wrong. That's just my impression at the moment.

Originally posted by Corganist

Lets punish the people of Louisiana for the sake of international politics.


I know that you tried to pull the old patented "Corganist Twist" here, but....isnt that essentially what happened?

Maybe if 60% of our national guards weren't off fighting in Iraq, the people of Louisiana would have gotten helped a lot faster?

You kind of contributed to the point here

Originally posted by disslunker



I know that you tried to pull the old patented "Corganist Twist" here, but....isnt that essentially what happened?

Maybe if 60% of our national guards weren't off fighting in Iraq, the people of Louisiana would have gotten helped a lot faster?

You kind of contributed to the point here

That was my thinking.

Originally posted by disslunker

I know that you tried to pull the old patented "Corganist Twist" here, but....isnt that essentially what happened?

Maybe if 60% of our national guards weren't off fighting in Iraq, the people of Louisiana would have gotten helped a lot faster?

You kind of contributed to the point here
Please. The problems surrounding the hurricane relief weren't related to the amount of National Guardsmen availiable. Suggesting otherwise makes your whole case look weak. Iraq has nothing at all to do with the hurricane.

But even assuming it does, you still haven't explained why other countries should withhold aid because of it, which is my point. What would justify such pettiness?

Originally posted by Corganist

Please. The problems surrounding the hurricane relief weren't related to the amount of National Guardsmen availiable. Suggesting otherwise makes your whole case look weak. Iraq has nothing at all to do with the hurricane.

But even assuming it does, you still haven't explained why other countries should withhold aid because of it, which is my point. What would justify such pettiness?


You don't have the resources to look after people in a hurricane hit zone, yet you have the resources to fight a war on the other side of the world? mmm...I'm still willing to bet had those resources been in the US more help could have been sent to New Orleans quicker.

As for your second point, at no point, WHATSOEVER did anyone say aid should be withheld. Read the thread again and you'll see.

Originally posted by talk show host

You don't have the resources to look after people in a hurricane hit zone, yet you have the resources to fight a war on the other side of the world? mmm...I'm still willing to bet had those resources been in the US more help could have been sent to New Orleans quicker.

As for your second point, at no point, WHATSOEVER did anyone say aid should be withheld. Read the thread again and you'll see.
My bad. I see what you were trying to say now. "Sending your shit overseas" can be interpreted a couple different ways. I took "shit" to mean "things that make European nations not like us" as opposed to "stuff," which I now realize is what you actually meant.

Thats not to say I agree now. I still don't think the problems in Louisiana were due to a lack of money, manpower, or resources. This country has all of those in droves. What it didn't have...well, thats what we're all wanting to know isn't it? Whatever it was, I doubt its over in Iraq.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
how about we don't send money to tsunami victims or tell Africa that the $15 billion dollars we promised for AIDS (a wholly preventable disease) isn't coming?

agreed

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son

See, it's shit like this that pisses me off. "Here's $8 million!" "NOT GOOD ENOUGH!"

Originally posted by wally
I'm guessing Nimmy doesn't like the facts.

No, he does not like facts. He doesn't listen to what anybody else says. Maybe hes a republican?

horrible thread.

"ASIA? WE DON'T OWE THEM SHIT"

Originally posted by smashingjj
horrible thread.

"ASIA? WE DON'T OWE THEM SHIT" You have managed to once again completely miss the point.

It would be nice if the US just stopped international aid.

Also turning this into an "iraq thread" simply diverts the issue

isn't iraq international aid?

Originally posted by kiwi

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
Also turning this into an "iraq thread" simply diverts the issue
I guess the only people allowed to do that are you and Corganist.

Originally posted by Future Boy

I guess the only people allowed to do that are you and Corganist.
WTF? Where did I try and turn this into an Iraq thread? For that matter, where did Nimrod? The only time in this whole thread I used the word "Iraq" was a post basically saying that Iraq had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Corganist

WTF? Where did I try and turn this into an Iraq thread? For that matter, where did Nimrod? The only time in this whole thread I used the word "Iraq" was a post basically saying that Iraq had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Dude, you're too damn literal sometimes. I was talking about this, which you probably still wont agree with.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
diverts the issue

Originally posted by Corganist

WTF? Where did I try and turn this into an Iraq thread? For that matter, where did Nimrod? The only time in this whole thread I used the word "Iraq" was a post basically saying that Iraq had nothing to do with the topic at hand.
somehow i dont think he means this exact thread.

How about we give aid to people who need it instead of the USA.

There is a big ol' famine going on right now after all.

Originally posted by GlasgowKiss
How about we give aids to people who need it instead of the USA.

There is a big ol' famine going on right now after all.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
You have managed to once again completely miss the point.

It would be nice if the US just stopped international aid. ...so that was the point? seems quite different than your first post:

So Afghanistan can pledge $100k to hurricane relief, but all France, Germany and SPain can offer are some shitty fucking cots? You know full well would a disaster have hit France, the US would be the first country to offer help and the biggest contributor. Even political rivals like Venezuela are helping.

Originally posted by GlasgowKiss
How about we give aid to people who need it instead of the USA.

There is a big ol' famine going on right now after all.

I'd say we need it. Our government has been operating in the red for the last four or five years.

side note: if I said something to the effect of "we should not be handing out international aid while we are operating in the red" my left leaning peeps might come back with, "we aren't in the red because of internation aid, the problem are tax cuts, the war in iraq and corporate incentives" while the people on the right might say, "the problem isn't international aid, the problem is wellfare, social security, and a need for tort reform". the bottom line is that we are not finding a way to compromise and that we are paying the price for that failure.

Originally posted by pastry sharp
the bottom line is that we are not finding a way to compromise and that we are paying the price for that failure.

This sounds like every political system I can think of. Well put

Originally posted by smashingjj
...so that was the point? seems quite different than your first post:

the world views the US as a bank which you never have to pay back

hell, we still haven't collected the money owed from WWII except from Finland

Maybe it's time daddy cuts off his kids and lets them try and exist on their own

Originally posted by pastry sharp


I'd say we need it. Our government has been operating in the red for the last four or five years.

side note: if I said something to the effect of "we should not be handing out international aid while we are operating in the red" my left leaning peeps might come back with, "we aren't in the red because of internation aid, the problem are tax cuts, the war in iraq and corporate incentives" while the people on the right might say, "the problem isn't international aid, the problem is wellfare, social security, and a need for tort reform". the bottom line is that we are not finding a way to compromise and that we are paying the price for that failure. of course

the Liberals will allow conservative war spending if the conservatives will allow liberal social waste

and they both allow pork barrels

god bless the two party system

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
the world views the US as a bank which you never have to pay back

hell, we still haven't collected the money owed from WWII except from Finland

Maybe it's time daddy cuts off his kids and lets them try and exist on their own

For a country so obsessed with creating fair world peace and stability, that would be somewhat of a dipshit policy don't you think?

If you want to be the bestest and most powerful nation in the world, sweet as, but don't bitch when people look to you for help (ps: that's real help, not "invade us we're arab and have oil" help). Especially not when so many countries are willing to offer you aid in your time of crisis.

Originally posted by talk show host
Especially not when so many countries are willing to offer you aid in your time of crisis. really

apparantly you miss the point of the thread

Originally posted by talk show host

Especially not when so many countries are willing to offer you aid in your time of crisis.



Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
really

apparantly you miss the point of the thread



Originally posted by dreamsofdali
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-09-02-katrinaworldhelps_x.htm
France, "determined to show its solidarity with the United States," offered a range of aircraft and two ships, with helicopters and planes capable of airlifting tons of supplies, a disaster unit with 20 soldiers, a civil defense detachment of 35 people and an airborne emergency unit, the French Embassy said.


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1701824,00.html
Over the past weekend, Germany sent two planes loaded with 25 tons of food rations to a US Air Force base in Florida for further distribution to the Gulf Coast states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Another flight carrying 15 tons is scheduled to be delivered on Tuesday

and finally, the only detailed list (that I could find) of aid from Spain:
http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/09/07/62447.html
Spain prepared Wednesday to ship 16 metric tons of humanitarian aid, including 6,000 rations of food, tents and blankets to the United States to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.


Maybe I'm wrong but that seems like alot more than just a few "shitty fucking cots".

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
the world views the US as a bank which you never have to pay back

hell, we still haven't collected the money owed from WWII except from Finland

Maybe it's time daddy cuts off his kids and lets them try and exist on their own

this is so unbearably ignorant. this attitude is ridiculous

Originally posted by talk show host








Token gestures of things that aren't even needed

Originally posted by sleeper


this is so unbearably ignorant. this attitude is ridiculous
Yeah, it's ignorant to be tired of being used all the time.

do you think the US is at all the kind of county that allows itself to be used? the one important fact youre missing is that the US does this out of its own will, nobody is forcing them, and they recognize it as being in their interests to do so. have you ever heard the expression "the hand that gives, rules"? you should perhaps think it over a bit. also, you really have to separate the idea of "aid", as in the idea of help or assistance, and the reality of what goes on under the title of aid. the giving of this aid is inextricably tied together with their broader foreign policy objectives, as the US's largest "aid" recipient, israel, is proof of. if youre thinking about how amazingly generous the US is in just raw humanitarian aid, youre thinking of the wrong country

but even still, arguing from your perspective and on your premises, how can you be at the same time selflessly generous and demanding of return? those seem like too conflicting ideas. this is assuming you actually see US aid as being altruistic and purely good intentioned. if it is so, why would its removal be threatened when they dont get what they want in return? evidently, its meant to be this way. leverage, dependence, etc. theyre all powerful avenues of control

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son

Yeah, it's ignorant to be tired of being used all the time.

i'd say that the use is mutual. we hand out china's money and the rest of the world does our bidding. those countries that fail to do our bidding are met with extreme hostility.

Originally posted by sleeper
but even still, arguing from your perspective and on your premises, how can you be at the same time selflessly generous and demanding of return? those seem like too conflicting ideas. this is assuming you actually see US aid as being altruistic and purely good intentioned. if it is so, why would its removal be threatened when they dont get what they want in return? evidently, its meant to be this way. leverage, dependence, etc. theyre all powerful avenues of control
I see it as when I have, I help my friends. When I need, they don't help me.

i said stop saying need

Originally posted by sleeper
i said stop saying need I don't take orders from you

Besides, I'm all for individual contributions. The US government shouldn't be used as a welfare provider for the world

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son

When i have some spare cash, i give my friends enough that they dont starve to death.

When something happens to me and i might not be able to eat steak everyday, THEY JUST SEND ME SOME OF THEIR NOODLES!

Originally posted by GlasgowKiss
How about we give aid to people who need it instead of the USA.


HOW ABOUT <font size="50">YOU</font> GIVE AID TO PEOPLE WHOM YOU THINK NEED IT RATHER THAN DEMAND IT FROM OTHERS WHO MAY NOT WANT TO GIVE?

Random Libertarian: How about we go to the pub?
jczeroman: HOW ABOUT YOU GO TO THE PUB AND DRINK RATHER THAN DEMAND IT FROM OTHERS WHO MAY NOT WANT TO?

Originally posted by GlasgowKiss
Random Libertarian: How about we go to the pub?
jczeroman: HOW ABOUT YOU GO TO THE PUB AND DRINK RATHER THAN DEMAND IT FROM OTHERS WHO MAY NOT WANT TO?

he he he...

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son

Yeah, it's ignorant to be tired of being used all the time.


So your alternative is for the USA to return to its isolationist principals then? If someone is fucked over, leave them, and if something happens to you, the rest of the world turns away in return? I can't even articulate how ridiculous I find your comments man.

league of nations?!?!? WE DONT NEED NO STINKIN' LEAGUE OF NATIONS!!!

would this thread even have been made if France and Germany had not opposed the US iraq invasion??

freedom fries

sorry, i had to bring it up. theres one thing that should never be forgotten

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
the world views the US as a bank which you never have to pay back
I know this is last year, but still...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/26/budget.deficits.ap/

Budget office projects U.S. deficit to hit $477 billion

So the US owes SOMEONE ELSE $477 billion. Maybe you should pay back what you owe.

US deficit hits a new record
By Nick Beams
21 June 2005
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

The US balance of payments deficit hit an all-time high for the first quarter of the year, rising to $195.1 billion, up 3.6 percent from the previous record of $188.4 billion for the final three months of 2004 and well above market predictions of $190 billion. The latest figure means that the US payments deficit is running at an annual rate of $780 billion, requiring $2 billion a day from the rest of the world—mainly provided by Japan, China and other Asian nations—to finance it.

:rofl:

Originally posted by jczeroman
<font size="50">YOU</font>



Was that really necessary.

Originally posted by transluscent
would this thread even have been made if France and Germany had not opposed the US iraq invasion?? France opposed the uS using airspace to bomb Libya when there was proof Libya had supported the bombing of airlines

So yes. This goes back a long way

Originally posted by talk show host



So your alternative is for the USA to return to its isolationist principals then? If someone is fucked over, leave them, and if something happens to you, the rest of the world turns away in return? I can't even articulate how ridiculous I find your comments man.
I am all for political isolationism and a free market world economy.

don't christians adhere to the golden rule anymore?


how pathetic

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son

I am all for political isolationism and a free market world economy.


Then you're an idiot. Have a nice day.

Originally posted by talk show host



Then you're an idiot. Have a nice day.
Anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

Have a great life.

nimrod, as a friend, i feel its my duty to give you a word to the wise and let you know that its really time you lay off that "so, anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot?" argument. beyond the fact that its completely ludacris, a bit of a boy-who-cried-wolf thing might develop where people will just tune it out because youve used it incorrectly so many times. let me put it this way, my good buddy: its as good as saying that anyone who doesnt agree with you is just a person who thinks someone is an idiot if they dont agree with them. im just trying to do you a favour, ok

hey, sleeper, i like how you completely misspelled ludicrous.

unless you meant LUDA...
<img src="http://www.citypaper.net/articles/020702/pics/big/cs.ludacris.jpg">

in which case, nimrod's argument is, in fact, a rapper-actor.

good to know mispellings are what really count around here

Originally posted by sleeper
good to know mispellings are what really count around here

It wasn't just a an "oops" misspelling, like your misspelling of "misspelling," though, it was an "I've watched too much MTV" misspelling.

idont even really know who that guy is. i know hes a rapper, but thats it

and that last one was a typo, not a misspelling

but, i have to admit, there is something uniquely unbearable about being corrected on anything by someone like him. i cant deny that. i know those kind of snide joke posts pretty much represent the limit to how he is actually able to assert himself around here, but i really find his insolence intolerable. its just not right. he should be begging for my good graces, quite frankly. what an insult to my honour. id rape him to death right now were he here in front of me

hey lie, can i rape you to death?

No, but you can try rapping me to death.

Originally posted by DeviousJ
What a happy thread

You screwed up my reply to him.

Damn Brits. Always inserting themselves places where they don't belong.

It's not like it was such a great thread to begin with. I think it's been improved significantly since its genesis.

sticking his doughy, soggy irish meat into everyone nooks and crannies. theres something fundamentally wrong with that, but i like it

now you screwed up my reply. fucking american piece of shit

Originally posted by Lie


You screwed up my reply to him.

Damn Brits. Always inserting themselves places where they don't belong.

That was so perfect I had to delete it.

And that's right, this place is between you and Paris. No rocket-powered boat trips for you

Originally posted by DeviousJ
That was so perfect I had to delete it.

And that's right, this place is between you and Paris. No rocket-powered boat trips for you

And so the thread comes full-circle.